Dota 2 Beta Thread V: Real Talk Strikes Back [Tutorials]

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Shepard said:
I dont hate. I just think he is too good late game to have such a great escape mechanism early on. Right now= Highest agility gain, one of the best escapes in the game, hard to lock down in a team fight, low cooldown/high damage/ nuke that also slows, and when you add mana burn from diffusal you got the ultimate bullshit hero right there.
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Its one of the best escapes in normal mmr where dust isnt worth it because it delays your disruptors desolator. As you just saw in the last mouz game he gets shut down hard early game by an aggressive lane. If you want to look at a bullshit hero look at fucking gyro. Beast for the entirety of the game with much less weakness than PL.
 
Pookaki said:
I'm still fairly new to DOTA, so all this pre game pick strategy talk is super confusing to me right now.

I wish there was a newbie friendly commentator stream.
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I don't get it all yet either but the more you watch the more you start to understand it. Also watch GD because they have better analysis than anyone else.
 
SamVimes said:
No. Compare it with Timewalk, Blink, Waveform+morph or many other escape mechanisms and it's ass.
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Well, that's a point we'll disagree, I guess. Also keep in mind that you have a speed boost+create another illusion on an illusion based hero without any cue that you became invis. With the other heroes enemy at least know you're no there anymore.

iamblades said:
Certainly not as good as AM's blink for example..
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Am's blink is the best escape in the game.
 
Anbokr said:
So which hero is allowed to be the best late game carry after Void?

edit: As a matter of fact, Void is pretty much always guaranteed to be the best maxed out carry because of Chronosphere. That's not fair, all the other late game heroes "were balanced accordingly" right? Void needs that.
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How do you rank PA and Spectre on the late game carry standings?

Dopplewalk should probably have the move speed nerfed imo, even if you reveal him he is moving insanely fast still.
 
Shepard said:
Am's blink is the best escape in the game.
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Sam gave other examples as well, I was just point out one of the biggest ones that come to mind. I'm also not sure blink is the absolute best escape ability. It's good for sure, but Timewalk and Waveform are almost equivalent to blink in terms of pure escape ability in addition to a slow and a nuke, and both of those heroes have alternate escape mechanisms.

and that's ignoring the ultimate escape ability, ball lightning.

But that's two of the carries that can compete late game with PL, and they both have better escapes early game.
 
I rest my case. But expect a PL revision in next patches, not because bad players are being stomped by him, not because people keep complaining, but because he still needs some work.
 
Shepard said:
I rest my case. But expect a PL revision in next patches, not because bad players are being stomped by him, not because people keep complaining, but because he still needs some work.
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Agreed, I think a slight strength buff could do him some good for early game
 
iamblades said:
They are clearly on tilt, playing the 'lets pick the heroes that beat us last time' game.
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It definitely looks like they're trying too hard to make things happen. I mean, I did pick mouz to be one of the final two so I should be happy but not like this, never like this.
 
Shepard said:
I rest my case. But expect a PL revision in next patches, not because bad players are being stomped by him, not because people keep complaining, but because he still needs some work.
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can't win em all
 
Inversive said:
How do you rank PA and Spectre on the late game carry standings?

Dopplewalk should probably have the move speed nerfed imo, even if you reveal him he is moving insanely fast still.
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5v5? Who knows. Too many factors, but Void, Gyro, Spec, and PL are probably the best here.

1v1? I remember we tested a few carries awhile back, not many though. It usually came down to luck for a few carries after Faceless Void.
 
Anbokr said:
5v5? Who knows. Too many factors, but Void, Gyro, Spec, and PL are probably the best here.

1v1? I remember we tested a few carries awhile back, not many though. It usually came down to luck for a few carries after Faceless Void.
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I'd add Medusa for the 5v5 late game carries. But she is so unbelievably shit early that it doesn't really matter most of the time.

I'm hoping we see a 70 minute medusa game where she solos the whole team in the eastern qualifiers, but I doubt it. Maybe ZSMJ will give the people(well at least me) what they want.
 
JustinBB7 said:
Damn... this is sad to watch..
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ur sad?
iRCNllmh57FYd.gif
 
iamblades said:
I'd add Medusa for the 5v5 late game carries. But she is so unbelievably shit early that it doesn't really matter most of the time.

I'm hoping we see a 70 minute medusa game where she solos the whole team in the eastern qualifiers, but I doubt it.
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Yeah I just kinda ignore the fact that Medusa even exists. I'm pretty sure she's the worst hero in the game when all is said and done. Hard to imagine that when I played dota 1 5-6 years ago she was the easy win stomp hero that was instalocked in every single pub match.
 
Is this another esports tournament that somehow fails to handle double elimination correctly? Is it just a single BO5 tomorrow?
 
Shepard said:
And they were balanced accordingly. PL needs that.
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I agree, Dusa was balanced accordingly, let's check it out:

6.77 - Stone Gaze cooldown decreased from 140/110/80 to 140/100/60
6.75 - Mana Shield absorption rate increased from 0.75/1.25/1.5/2 to 0.75/1.25/1.75/2.25
6.75 - Mystic Snake damage bonus per jump increased from 20% to 25%
6.75 - Split Shot damage per arrow increased from 45/55/65/75% to 50/60/70/80%
6.74 - Split Shot now shoots 5 arrows instead of 4
6.73 - Stone Gaze rebalanced
6.73 - Toggle cooldown on mana shield removed
6.68 - Movement speed decreased from 300 to 290
6.68 - Strength gain decreased from 1.85 to 1.65
6.67 - Intelligence per level reduced from 2.25 to 1.85
6.65 - Stone Gaze cooldown increased to 100
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Wait a second... that's all they nerfed after she was considered the S tier carry of the game..? Amazingly, people discovered there are better ways to play against Medusa than to compete with her on the farming game.

The same goes for PL.

I rest my case. But expect a PL revision in next patches, not because bad players are being stomped by him, not because people keep complaining, but because he still needs some work.
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But you don't have much of a case in the first place.
 
Artanisix said:
I agree, Dusa was balanced accordingly, let's check it out:



Wait a second... that's all they nerfed after she was considered the S tier carry of the game..? Amazingly, people discovered there are better ways to play against Medusa than to compete with her on the farming game.

The same goes for PL.



But you don't have much of a case in the first place.
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Yes, I'm sure those nerfs didnt help at all, it was just people learning to play against her. Anyway, if PL is as balanced as you say he is, I'm pretty sure they wont touch him in the next patches.
 
BigAT said:
Is this another esports tournament that somehow fails to handle double elimination correctly? Is it just a single BO5 tomorrow?
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Yeah that really pisses me off. It's pretty pathetic, unfair, and just plain stupid. You'd think they'd learn from TI2.
 
He should have gotten Mjollnor to counter PL illusions? He picked incredibly bad items vs PL that's all. Alchy carries STRONG but you gave to be smart itemizing.
 
Shepard said:
Yes, I'm sure those nerfs didnt help at all, it was just people learning to play against her. Anyway, if PL is as balanced as you say he is, I'm pretty sure they wont touch him in the next patches.
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If you seeeeriously think a .2 strength gain difference and a .4 int gain difference was the magic line between S tier and F tier, then I'm afraid you've completely and utterly made up your mind regarding this argument and no amount of evidence can convince you otherwise.
 
Aselith said:
He should have gotten Mjollnor to counter PL illusions? He picked incredibly bad items vs PL that's all. Alchy carries STRONG but you gave to be smart itemizing.
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The problem wasnt only Alch's poor (?) items, it was basically PL having free farm.

Artanisix said:
If you seeeeriously think a .2 strength gain difference and a .4 int gain difference was the magic line between S tier and F tier, then I'm afraid you've completely and utterly made up your mind regarding this argument and no amount of evidence can convince you otherwise.
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Small fixes every hero needs. Why stop with Medusa? Look at Lycan and Morphling, heroes that were absolutely powerhouses and after some tweaks are now much more balanced. PL needs that, I'm not asking them to stop him from spawning illusions or anything like that, but he clearly needs small fixes, and if he's as good now as ou say he is, I'm sure next patches will prove me wrong.
 
Shepard said:
The problem wasnt only Alch's poor (?) items, it was basically PL having free farm.
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EXACTLY. Do you understand now? It's not a very good idea to let one of the best late game carries in the game have absolute uncontested free farm, kills, and towers without even switching lanes for over 20 minutes. That's called A) getting outdrafted B) getting outplayed or C) just playing like shit. Usually it's a combination of the three.
 
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