Dota 2 Beta Thread V: Real Talk Strikes Back [Tutorials]
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SteveWinwood
Member
just throw in the towel valve you can't make a game up to the caliber of dawngate
that never goes down
that never goes down
yo lets play dawngate this weekend
patronising short sighted dota players dont want it
Hated the shit out of it in League, I'm fine without.
SteveWinwood
Member
SneakyStephan
Banned
in dota, people with that attitude would just leave the game instead
whats your point
Technosteve
Banned
let's play league, guys.
Green Biker Dude
Banned
the reason these posts are dumb is simple: if i consider the game lost, then i can throw. and because the game must be at least close for me to consider it over, then my team likely can't win 4v5. so it's already over
i can be out of position and get ganked. i can charge in an inappropriate time and die, and my team might come after. i can constantly use my important spells on the wrong target on teamfights. i can just stay in the jungle and do nothing. i can buy a gem and lose it so the invis hero on my team can no longer roam the map by himself. and on higher levels of play, the right action is often times subtle. so i can just not do the right thing and basically do what the average player would.
if i feel we've lost the game, and i want to act on it, we've lost the game. my team isn't winning 4v5
they can lock this down so only games at a certain point in mmr can have it -- at the point where people can actually judge whether the game is over or not, whichever that is. but leaving it out is just dumb
the game will end earlier though, one way or the other
Yo why are you guys trashing on CM? She has like infinite mana. Harass with your OP spells, not your 41 dmg right clicks.
I will agree that she is very positioning dependent so she may get destroyed a lot if people dont know where they need to be.
Roaming CM is a nightmare in the right hands, its just a matter of having a team to back your root and slow up.
I will agree that she is very positioning dependent so she may get destroyed a lot if people dont know where they need to be.
Roaming CM is a nightmare in the right hands, its just a matter of having a team to back your root and slow up.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
OK wiser gurus than I, tell me if I'm wrong here:
How much of a Jungler's responsibility is it to be proactively ganking? To set the scenario, I was jungling with Lycan at the start of the match. At about 4:00, we're up 2-0 and Bounty Hunter starts pinging me and saying "get the fuck out of the jungle start ganking." I do one to appease him and go back for some farm. Around 12:00 he again and another player start freaking out, saying "jungling time is over, you need to get to lane" or similar. At this point it's probably 4-1. By a minute or two later I'm done farming and join my team's strategies. We win, I finish 21-5-7 with Treads, Vlad's, Heart, Assault Cuirass, Rapier. A respectable game, I would think.
So. I understand that a Jungler needs to keep his eye on the map, and should respond to lanes where somebody is in trouble. I certainly do that. But, correct me if I'm wrong, the point of a jungler is to get free farm, allow another person to solo lane for farm, and jump in if necessary. Not to be a Roamer constantly. I understand the problem with people who farm the jungle the entire game, or who ignore solo lanes which are getting killed. None of that was happening.
How much of a Jungler's responsibility is it to be proactively ganking? To set the scenario, I was jungling with Lycan at the start of the match. At about 4:00, we're up 2-0 and Bounty Hunter starts pinging me and saying "get the fuck out of the jungle start ganking." I do one to appease him and go back for some farm. Around 12:00 he again and another player start freaking out, saying "jungling time is over, you need to get to lane" or similar. At this point it's probably 4-1. By a minute or two later I'm done farming and join my team's strategies. We win, I finish 21-5-7 with Treads, Vlad's, Heart, Assault Cuirass, Rapier. A respectable game, I would think.
So. I understand that a Jungler needs to keep his eye on the map, and should respond to lanes where somebody is in trouble. I certainly do that. But, correct me if I'm wrong, the point of a jungler is to get free farm, allow another person to solo lane for farm, and jump in if necessary. Not to be a Roamer constantly. I understand the problem with people who farm the jungle the entire game, or who ignore solo lanes which are getting killed. None of that was happening.
I would say around 10-15 minutes is when you ideally do want to get out of the jungle and participate around the map as Lycan, ideally with getting Roshan, pushing towers down, killing some people, that sort of thing. For the 4 minute thing, if you can get a kill, great, if you think there is not a chance of doing anything, ignore them.
Really depends on who said jungler is. For Lycan, probably very little, since there's not much you can contribute to a gank. You have no stun or slow. The most you might be able to do is send the wolves in for a pick off on low-health runner. Even then you will probably have to wait til level 4 wolves, because if other members of the team spot them they will go down in a hit or two.
With something like an Enigma, that responsibility goes up quite a bit, since you should have two points in Malefice by 5, and Black Hole at 6 is a great ganking tool if you get a good one off.
Here's an interesting question the rest of the room though: With the latest Open Wounds nerf, is the necessity of Lifestealer ganking (if he is jungling) as high as it used to be? I feel like the short Open Wounds cast range on lower levels makes him not as viable for that anymore, and he might just be better off sticking to farming, being more of a liabliity than a use in a gank.
SteveWinwood
Member
i mean everyone should just gank all the time
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
1000x this. He's a horrible ganker.
SteveWinwood
Member
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
Yeah, another point I meant to raise. Lycan certainly doesn't strike me as a good ganker for all the reasons mentioned.
Just a bunch of idiots all around I think.
SteveWinwood
Member
i dont believe this boken
ok maybe its more like 3x harder
I guess Dota is harder because purges videos are harder to find
SteveWinwood
Member
Depends on what you want. Hat monsters gives you hats. Sexy nurse gives you herpes.
Also, I can't imagine anything easier than jungling as Chen.
lol purge videos
I'm surprised you don't see the rich, rich irony in this
I thought you were smarter than this
rhophiehalul78
Member
I'm kinda surprised league is much talked about here. I think I'll give it a try when I get a decent PC. I'm currently using my work laptop for Dota so until then I have to be discreet with the games.
Since league's the bigger game we have to take potshots at it every now and then to bring it down to our level. We're desperate.
It's the biggest pc game. We can't really resist
Edit: xanavi makes it too obvious
HoweverSteveWinwood was serious that time. He loves nurses and Asian girls. Hits all the buttons
He's a meh player.
Ok now me
Stonewall is a gold to plat player who doesn't play competitively and doesn't even play ranked
His videos don't even teach you how to jungle
Once you learn how to jungle with one champion, you've learned to jungle with all of them. Barring some fringe junglers there's very little true difference between them. The rest is just a numbers game, and stonewall's channel is a one stop shop for that.
I'm not really understand why people say this (assuming you are serious). He seems pretty good to me.
Half serious. I've run into him once or twice and I can't remember being impressed.
That he made no impression on me (until after the fact cause someone inevitably notices that we're playing against purge on his stream) is enough for me to formulate an opinion on him.
Don't get me wrong, he does a service to the community with his explanatory videos but he himself is not an amazing player.
Captain Fish
Member
So often he gets an uncontested lane, or plays supports in non support roles. Not really the most useful videos for how to actually play, outside of maybe item choices. Fun watching him not show up to team fights cause he's farming though. 
I don't know who Stonewall is, but I'm a newb player and Purge's videos help me learn a lot.
Even when I win with heroes that I random and never played with before, seeing videos of Purge using that hero makes me realize how I missed the little things and how I could have used their skills better.
Perhaps he comes off as lame to skilled players, but to a newb like me his videos are extremely helpful.
Even when I win with heroes that I random and never played with before, seeing videos of Purge using that hero makes me realize how I missed the little things and how I could have used their skills better.
Perhaps he comes off as lame to skilled players, but to a newb like me his videos are extremely helpful.
Don't worry about it, Haly is just being crazy defensive right now.
Purge does 10x more for Dota and teaches that much more than stonewall. And yet Haly dismisses purge when he uses stonewall as the be all and end all for learning jungling
Oh, there's the irony
Or do we call that hypocrisy. Sorry, English second language.
In hood talk we call it mega rich creamy shit tho
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