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Dota 2 |OT| To Hell and Back and Back to Hell

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Oh god you bought keys for chests. Better off spending the cash to buy stuff

I know I feel like shit for it too...Looked at my inventory and thought it was bare on rares....goddamn chests...I still don't see how I can't get 1:1 rares for trade...I suppose I can open up a whole can of worms and start betting on games..
 

woodland

Member
What do you guys do when you pug and youre top, defending, killing some heroes and trying to communicate. Then comes the narrator saying that my bottom tower is under attack and after that the middle tower. My friends die a lot and the enemy has now heroes with a lot of levels. They keep killing and destroying towers. I go back to my base after they destroy every lane tower and stay there, I dont wanna feed them and its impossible to win. I get reported for not helping... is it fair? I just want the game to end and queue again.


Pug as in Pugna or as in pick up group? As Pugna you're a huge team fight hero. Massive AOE nuke, huge range ult so you can just ult someone from the back, + your ward is insanely good/kills the shit out of INT heroes.

What team were you on? If you were top as Radiant and were underlevelled and suicide laning, than you probably wouldn't have much an effect on the fight. If you were in a trilane top on Dire, than you need to go help defend towers regardless.

At the end of the day Pugna's a massive teamfight hero, he can definitely turn around teamfights. You should go help defend towers unless you're underlevelled, in which case I'd say that's more of a fault on you instead of your team.

edit; Obviously someone can shut you down, but you should be constantly working to stay levels through jungling, finding the right time to farm/gank, etc. I know you're knew, it's something you'll pick up as you go along.
 
Pug as in Pugna or as in pick up group? As Pugna you're a huge team fight hero. Massive AOE nuke, huge range ult so you can just ult someone from the back, + your ward is insanely good/kills the shit out of INT heroes.

What team were you on? If you were top as Radiant and were underlevelled and suicide laning, than you probably wouldn't have much an effect on the fight. If you were in a trilane top on Dire, than you need to go help defend towers regardless.

At the end of the day Pugna's a massive teamfight hero, he can definitely turn around teamfights. You should go help defend towers unless you're underlevelled, in which case I'd say that's more of a fault on you instead of your team.

edit; Obviously someone can shut you down, but you should be constantly working to stay levels through jungling, finding the right time to farm/gank, etc. I know you're knew, it's something you'll pick up as you go along.

Pug as in a pub match, sorry haha! I was Lina. Cant do a lot being alone since Im so squishy and had already used my wards/TPs and no one cared to buy them... not even the courier. Then, late game, when our towers are all destroyed, they say to report me because Im back in my base and my friends are level 10 and the enemy are around level 16 -_-
 
I don't play support often and find myself dying a lot as Vengeful Spirit. The other team has a Storm Spirit and Spirit Breaker, so every time I go ward/deward, they kill me, maybe I get the ward placed. All I have 47 minutes in is a Basilius, Force Staff, Phase (had two Arcanes on the team already), and Ghost Scepter.

How the hell do I survive and get more farm as a support? I can never do it. I went 2/12/16 on Vengeful Spirit, and I know you all think a non-positive score is garbage. We still won the game but how the hell do I not die? I ask people to go with me to ward, and usually it's only ANOTHER support who's squishy like Bane. Oh, and Bane had Scythe, Force, Mek, and BoTs... I think I bought every single ward we had all game though.

People tell me "just farm the pull camp", and usually the other team contests it and I'm forced away from it, maybe getting the XP if I'm lucky, or the lane partner needs me out in lane. This is why I don't usually play support.

Late response:

If possible, play more aggressively in the early phases of the game.

If you can co-ordinate with your lane partner and they go to contest the pull, then go try to pick a fight with them. Since you've got creeps in the jungle (fighting neuts) and they have none (theirs are in lane fighting your tower), you should get an automatic creep advantage when they draw aggro by attacking you and they'll want to run. Players that are running do no damage. If you punish them a couple of times for daring to interfere with your shit, then they'll become a lot less keen about doing so. This is obviously situational and depends on your lane composition; if you've got Spectre as your lane partner against an aggressive duo then there's very little you can do but abandon the pull and hope that Spec can farm well under tower, but if you've got a more aggressive carry like a Jugg or Sven then you should be able to find a fight that favours you. If you've got a friend in another lane that you can co-ordinate with and the enemy go balls deep into your jungle then have someone rotate up and get a couple of easy kills in a 3v2.

You can stay on top of things by roaming aggressively. If I'm ever playing a hard support with a strong earlygame and I feel my carry is safe in the lane by themselves, I'll look for opportunities to roam long before most players expect it in pub games. This might mean investing in smoke and TP scrolls before boots or wand or whatever, but if you pull off the gank then you can really slow down the momentum of that storm spirit or SB and stop them from ever reaching the point of being able to jump you every time you ward later on. Getting a TP before boots and attempting this represents a risk in that if you miss the gank then you're a long way from ever getting boots but even if you fail you should hopefully do a lot of damage to the heroes in the lane you visit and slow down their farm, and the enemy team will react to your play either by rotating an extra hero (removing pressure from your team in another lane) or by playing far more passively and missing farm because you've scared the shit out of them. The best part about this is that if you're playing #5 and miss the gank, it's not like your team has missed out on a whole lot.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Man you really cannot carry with Abbadon. And so we lost because they expected me to, or at least they thought we could win with Jakiro, Abbadon, Nyx, Tidehunter, and Magnus. Oh sure, we had great initiation, but their Riki was able to tear us apart as soon as midgame rolled around and our follow up in fights was non-existent.

It was the worlds first case of too many supports.
 

shira

Member
Isn't KP more USA then Navi?

iT4Fq4iAk29I8.gif


EE and RTZ are canadian
 
I can't believe people find a way to complain and harass in a game where the score was 52/46 and both sides basically lost all their towers.

Like seriously.


What is the point of whining in a game that was fairly even and could have gone either way and where nobody was really at fault? Spirit Breaker doesn't say anything the entire game and then comes out and assaults us all at the end, calling us all sorts of names, taunting us to report him and saying he's the best player in the game and we brought him down.

I even told him to calm down, it's only a game and it's over so why bother telling us now how to play, it's just wasted energy. This just made him madder.
 
I really need to start experimenting more with better jungle doom builds. Never feels like I'm doing as well as I could. Take the hp regen creep? How about the skeleton warriors creep to get something to tank shit for me. Ice armor because its not like he has any? Maybe alpha wolf is even good early? Hand of midas (yeah I know situational)? Maybe experiment with soul ring? Should I get a stout? Maybe a basi ring. I don't know.
 

BeesEight

Member
Is this where we post your steam accounts for friendships and get Cyborgmatt to carry us?

I don't play support often and find myself dying a lot as Vengeful Spirit. The other team has a Storm Spirit and Spirit Breaker, so every time I go ward/deward, they kill me, maybe I get the ward placed. All I have 47 minutes in is a Basilius, Force Staff, Phase (had two Arcanes on the team already), and Ghost Scepter.

How the hell do I survive and get more farm as a support? I can never do it. I went 2/12/16 on Vengeful Spirit, and I know you all think a non-positive score is garbage. We still won the game but how the hell do I not die? I ask people to go with me to ward, and usually it's only ANOTHER support who's squishy like Bane. Oh, and Bane had Scythe, Force, Mek, and BoTs... I think I bought every single ward we had all game though.

People tell me "just farm the pull camp", and usually the other team contests it and I'm forced away from it, maybe getting the XP if I'm lucky, or the lane partner needs me out in lane. This is why I don't usually play support.

Seriously, I think every player should be forced to play support at least for one game.

You're expected to not take any experience or farm in the lane and then people are angry when you're lower level and have no farm. They want constant ward coverage and the onus is on you to purchase mek, pipe, dust and sentries while they get vanguards and aghanim's. They bitch if you make one mistake which will cost you your life since you're lower farmed and lower leveled then your opponents. When the blame game gets played, supports are usually the first targeted.

Honestly, you're way better farmed than I usually am in games. As for warding, it takes a while but you really have to pay attention to the mini-map and be a good judge of where enemies are likely to be. You'll still get caught out every now and then, it is inevitable, but dying is part of playing the support role.

Also, last hitting is arguably even more important in the hard support position since you have very little time to farm so it's even more important that you get every last hit you can. As others have mentioned, pull the camps in the lane and try to get some early levels and gold through there assuming your lane partner isn't going to be in danger. If they contest then you have to quickly judge whether your partner is aware enough to assist (they usually aren't) in which case you have to bail. The point of your role is to make the game easier for everyone else so even if you're having a hard time, you can still be succeeding overall. Otherwise, you really rely on ganks, surviving teamfights and taking down towers to keep a steady income flowing.

I've been pretty much hard supporting the majority of my games for the last three or so months. It's a thankless job but, as the Bastion announcer says "no one likes to play support but everyone likes to win."

(Also, I'm learning that not all carries are created equally. If you know you're supporting some dead weight it might not be a bad idea to start being greedy and get some farm on yourself if you're a high impact support like Tide or Sand King. Well placed Ravages and Epicentres can win the game even if your Chaos Knight has twenty cs at twenty minutes.)
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
You don't always get farm as support. It happens, it's part of what playing support is about and why it's a hard role and why no one wants to play it.

You can go 10 minutes with nothing but boots and a wand.

If you're dying too often you need to make sure you're not out of position and not presenting yourself as an easy target. Land your spells, and then get as far away from their most dangerous player as possible. If you have to die, make sure your presence guaranteed at least one kill. So long as you're breaking even with deaths to kills enabled, then you're doing your job.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
And then the very next game another carryless team (still mine) ROFLstomps the enemy with Sven, Crystal Maiden, Skywrath, Undying and Warlock. I was Sven and I think I had the least kills on the team. We ended up going like 47-12 against a team with Drow, Sniper, and Doom
 

HenryHSH

Member
I am done solo matchmaking. I lost 7 of my last 9 or 10 games and I'm down to 4 wins above .500. Each game there's someone that either has no idea how to use the carry they picked or is from some foreign country and keeps lagging out and speaking broken English. The worst is when I got teamed up with players that have 20 wins vs. a stack of 5 with 800 wins each... WTF Valve? Just because I'm ok playing with/against teams doesn't mean I want to get fucked.
 

gillFTR

Member
Dat feel when you are supporting and you look through your fellow carry's history and hes never played nothing but hard carries and cant make last hits. I should have just picked NP and jungled.
 

Sibylus

Banned
Welcome Cyborgmitt!

And damn, MM has me hella irritated, can only mean I'm losing some of my discipline. Time to jump into solo queue a bunch and sublimate the soul.
 

sibarraz

Banned

:(

I play in the north american servers because I can't stand the brazilians

Is sad, because the brazilians in real life are like the most cool and amicable people from the continent, but for some reason, almost all of the ones who play dota are jerks (even though to be fair, that's something that appears in all the countries, including mine)
 

yarden24

Member
hi matt!

im sorry if it seems everyone is just asking you questions all the time, which might be a bit off-putting..

but i was wondering if you guys are thinking of any measures to better segregate people by language? its very frustrating when people that don't know English make up your whole team, makes coordination impossible and the game as a whole less fun.
 

NBtoaster

Member
I've been playing solo queue for a while and something must be wrong with the Elo system. If it's trying to match even teams just based on skill without needing to consider parties...most matches are 20-30 minute stomps.

Ad8Cu8h.jpg
 

Vaporak

Member
I've been playing solo queue for a while and something must be wrong with the Elo system. If it's trying to match even teams just based on skill without needing to consider parties...most matches are 20-30 minute stomps.

Ad8Cu8h.jpg

Dota is a snowbally game, especially at low levels where people have bad strategic understanding of the game and don't really know how to play from behind. There's really nothing the match maker can do about that.
 

Mononoke

Banned
hi matt!

im sorry if it seems everyone is just asking you questions all the time, which might be a bit off-putting..

but i was wondering if you guys are thinking of any measures to better segregate people by language? its very frustrating when people that don't know English make up your whole team, makes coordination impossible and the game as a whole less fun.

What would the solution be? The only way I could see them fixing this is making servers restricted to IPs only in that region. Unless in cases where servers are down, then they take that off so obviously they can play on servers that are up.

But outside of something like that (which I'm not even sure is possible), there is nothing stopping anyone from any region hopping on whatever server they want. The other issue is, not every person from these other regions only speaks one language. So it wouldn't be fair to them.

I do have to agree though, it's pretty much ruining matchmaking for me right now. Anytime I don't have a full team, I almost always get stuck with a teammate that is from Brazil/Russia who either doesn't speak English or who won't speak it. Even worse when it's the kind of person that keeps speaking in their language when no one else but their buddy can understand what they are saying. Completely breaks the communication aspect of the game. I also see this from their side of things. If me and my friends are speaking a language they don't understand, how does that benefit them? Everyone loses. And this has been happening A LOT lately to me. To the point that I refuse to play matchmaking anymore unless I have 4-5 man team. I just don't really see what kind of solution would be viable for this.

Then again, I wonder if it's even as big of an issue as it is for you and me. Maybe we are just unlucky.
 

1.09

Low Tier
I've been playing solo queue for a while and something must be wrong with the Elo system. If it's trying to match even teams just based on skill without needing to consider parties...most matches are 20-30 minute stomps.

http://i.imgur.com/Ad8Cu8h.jpg[/QUOTE]

wot
 

Anbokr

Bull on a Donut
I've been playing solo queue for a while and something must be wrong with the Elo system. If it's trying to match even teams just based on skill without needing to consider parties...most matches are 20-30 minute stomps.

http://i.imgur.com/Ad8Cu8h.jpg[img][/QUOTE]

I'm not going to crunch all the numbers but you're average game time seems to be around 33-35ish which seems pretty normal to me.
 

Artanisix

Member
I've been playing solo queue for a while and something must be wrong with the Elo system. If it's trying to match even teams just based on skill without needing to consider parties...most matches are 20-30 minute stomps.

http://i.imgur.com/Ad8Cu8h.jpg[img][/QUOTE]

Even games do NOT mean back-and-forth games. There are too many other variables for that to reliably happen.
 
Anyone have a youtube link or at least a name for these matches you were talking about in the past few pages? the kp stomp and the finals or w/e that were so entertaining?
I'd like to watch them.
 

sixghost

Member
It's pretty hard to hear any of the arguments against a surrender button after you just got tower dived for 15 minutes straight. I literally cant think of a more negative experience I've ever had in a multiplayer game.
 

Card Boy

Banned
It's pretty hard to hear any of the arguments against a surrender button after you just got tower dived for 15 minutes straight. I literally cant think of a more negative experience I've ever had in a multiplayer game.

But it gives you a thick skin and a chance for a comeback even though the majority of the team doesn't want to continue playing!

Stop beating a dead donkeys dick. /s
 
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