The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Oh god ICCUP what are you doing?
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Dota 2 |OT| To Hell and Back and Back to Hell
- Thread starter Artanisix
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balladofwindfishes
Member
Reporting for not communicating is a terrible idea. Next maybe we should report for being new or bad at the game. Or not speaking my language despite them not having control over who they get matched with.
How would you even punish not communicating? How would you do so in a way that encourages positive communication in future games.
How would you even punish not communicating? How would you do so in a way that encourages positive communication in future games.
Gonna disagree, would punish people muting abusive players (you can't really communicate with them).
I should have clarified. I would be okay with having a report function for not communicating, but going back to the old system of kicking these people into low priority, not a chat ban. Obviously that wouldn't make a lick of sense.
Chat ban the person for not...communicating. Wat.
Communication is a huge part of playing DOTA. Even beyond using the macro calls or the basic DOTA lingo, teams that actually talk play much better than those that don't say anything at all. Playing with foreigners who don't speak the native language of the servers they are playing on, is a massive handicap to a team. That said, I agree with you that it's not really viable or realistic. My problem is, why are these people that don't speak the language of the servers they are playing on, selecting those servers? They don't benefit. The people on that server don't benefit. What is the point?
Or are you saying Valve puts people in other servers via matchmaking, and selecting region servers doesn't actually do anything?
I still don't follow. Kicking people into low priority for muting abusive players is a horrible outcome.
balladofwindfishes
Member
A massive handicap they have no control over. What if I only know French? What am I supposed to do if it queues me with Americans?
You'd only be giving abusive people another outlet to troll that would serve absolutely no benefit to anyone. There's no punishment that would encourage people to communicate more, and why should they have to communicate more?
Not communicating is just being bad at the game. You essentially want to report people for being bad at Dota, which is awful.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I am going to laugh so hard if Mouz somehow throws this
I think you misunderstand me. I never said I wanted to kick people to low priority for muting abusive players?
What I said was, I wouldn't be opposed to there being a report function where you could report someone for not communicating with the team. And then they get kicked to low priority if they get enough reports. That said, as others have pointed out, that's still a bad idea - because not every region has a single language, so it's not fair to punish players for not speaking the same language as the server they are on (when that server covers a large area).
All I said regarding muting, was that wouldn't really make a lot of sense, given Valve's stance to allow those that are chat banned to continue to be in high priority. (So obviously they don't see that communicating via talking as that essential as some of us do, and believe you can get by with Macro/calls etc.) EDIT: But now after talking this through with you good people, Valve probably had that same reasoning. So I'm probably just wrong, and that was the best solution they could find.
Yeah fair point. Regions are huge and diverse, and most regions don't have a single language. Which is why I'm saying it's not fair or viable. If you follow the convo I was having with the other guy, I said that I didn't think there was really a way to go about doing this.
I agree with you 100%.
They won't. But it'd be worse than egthrows.
Can't agree with communication reports.
Take having a 3-stack paired with a 2-stack for instance. Each stack could be communicating within their own stack on separate skype calls. If neither stack types in game, they could report eachother for not communicating. Or taken to more extreme examples, a 4-stack and a solo queuer; the 4-stack is on skype and doesn't talk to the solo player, the solo reports all four of them for no communication. Maybe each stack speaks a different language. Maybe you're one of those players that likes to play music and chill out while playing Dota and ignores people on voice and only talks to those on text.
How would you even define non-communication? Is simply saying "no" to someone else's calls good enough to not be reported? Or do you need to explain your reasoning? One word every five minutes? A sentence? A paragraph? Five chat wheel commands through the whole game?
Take having a 3-stack paired with a 2-stack for instance. Each stack could be communicating within their own stack on separate skype calls. If neither stack types in game, they could report eachother for not communicating. Or taken to more extreme examples, a 4-stack and a solo queuer; the 4-stack is on skype and doesn't talk to the solo player, the solo reports all four of them for no communication. Maybe each stack speaks a different language. Maybe you're one of those players that likes to play music and chill out while playing Dota and ignores people on voice and only talks to those on text.
How would you even define non-communication? Is simply saying "no" to someone else's calls good enough to not be reported? Or do you need to explain your reasoning? One word every five minutes? A sentence? A paragraph? Five chat wheel commands through the whole game?
Pureauthor
Member
Well that was a slaughter.
I know that isn't your intent, but that would be the inescapable outcome if the mute function remained in-game. All uses of the function would end up being punished by abusive players reporting their victims for not communicating with them (and quite rightly too, in the twisted logic of the game if the suggestion went through)
Maybe you can answer this for me. Russian players have Russian servers. Brazilians have South American servers. When we see players from both those regions playing on US West, did they choose specifically to go on US West servers and not the server that is closest to their region? Or does Valve actually matchmake people out of server regions, even if they don't have other server regions checked off?
Anyways, this conversation is actually pretty stupid in hindsight. Even in the U.S. (US West/East), not everyone speaks English. So there is absolutely no way to do anything about it, except use macro calls, and play the best that you can - and just hope the other players also play as good as they can. At the end of the day, it all comes down to skill and execution, and not communication. Communication IMO is a huge component, but it shouldn't be a deciding factor in a game, when you have macro/calls. So I apologize for making this a dumb rant on this page. I was just following up what someone else said 4-5 pages back, because I too was having the same frustrations as him, with regards to people not speaking the same language (I get paired with a lot of Russian/Brazilians). But like I said, it all comes down to how you play and skill. So no complaining.
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
Doesn't the chat wheel give a chance for everyone to be able to communicate?
RubxQub
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Well Played!
Game is hard.
DivineRage002
Member
Anyone else think we'll get a full blown release today/tommorow?
It would make sense. Summer sale is over, so it could take the whole front page of the store.
Big server update for steam yesterday.
Two weeks before TI3, and still 600,000$ to go for techies, they need all the new players they can get.
I'm Archieing this. Full release tonight/tommorow with Legion Waifu.
It would make sense. Summer sale is over, so it could take the whole front page of the store.
Big server update for steam yesterday.
Two weeks before TI3, and still 600,000$ to go for techies, they need all the new players they can get.
I'm Archieing this. Full release tonight/tommorow with Legion Waifu.
Yeah that's what I meant by macro calls. Not even sure if that's the correct term here.
Last night was getting spammed with "GAME IS HARD"
andregnreis
Member
Is the VGL cinematic available?
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
i presume the chat isn't in English for everyone.
edit: i think reports for jo communication is a bit too far.
All chat wheel content is localized to each client, yes.
DivineRage002
Member
I would say if someone talks to you directly and you never answer that's noncommunication. Happens all the damn time.
DivineRage002
Member
SteveWinwood
Member
That has happened once a week or two on average for years now. Servers just go down sometimes.
Dictator93
Member
I think it is a bad idea
DivineRage002
Member
I definitely think they want to open the game up for everyone before TI3. That leaves today and next week.
the problem is not with regions, i dont care if i play with Russians or Brazilians, all i want is for them to be able to understand me, when you look for a game you get to pick a language (at the moment:English,Russian,Chinese).
the fact that people that do now know any English(or refuse to use any) when i assume they choose English as the on of the languages they speak is the problem
Should Valve nerf denies?
I have no doubt they're adding more servers as quickly as possible, but between the steam sales and dota, demand is consistently outstripping expectations on their end.
They were already nerfed several years back, used to get no XP on denies.
SteveWinwood
Member
The game is open. Completely 100% open. There is just a line to get in that's all.
Yeah... can you imagine getting 0 XP in lane minutes in because all the creeps are getting denied? You have could large level difference between heroes very easily. Ahh, before the times of quelling blade.
DivineRage002
Member
That's what I've been saying. I expect them to remove that line before TI3.
Kinda meh to advertise the biggest gaming tournament of the year and showing your shiny new game to everyone only to say "get in line to play it".
My problem with this is, I think it will encourage people to give up a lot sooner than they should. I think it will impact the overall mentality of how people play, and that's a bad thing. Although I would be lying if I didn't say I wanted a surrender option every once in a while (when I'm getting pub stomped to hell). Or in extreme cases where you have someone trolling the team, and it's a never ending uphill battle you can't win (although that doesn't happen often).
If they were to implement this, I would want them to make it so every single member on the team has to agree to it, not just the majority. But I still think it's a bad idea for the reasons stated above.
EDIT:
This sounds more reasonable too. Still not a fan of them implementing it. But if they ever did, I would want something like this (where there needs to be certain triggers before the option becomes available).
Cyborgmatt
Member
The queue is there to throttle the influx of users to each specific region so we can carry on playing the game without it blowing up.
Trust me, it is a good thing.
Trust me, it is a good thing.
SteveWinwood
Member
It's either 1% get to wait a few hours so everyone else gets to keep playing or no one gets to play because the servers just melted.
Which would you prefer?
Is there still a separate spectator client for those not yet in the game? I realize this a little besides your point, but at least that would allow for in game TI3 watching for those not yet through the queue. If there was some way those people could go ahead and get a non-playable account, that would be even better. Let them pick up a compendium and join in the International fun, even if they can't play the game yet.
YES!
I still maintain that having it be based on objective progress and time is viable. The objective being twofold: to destroy the Ancient and not prolong the game beyond a reasonable amount of time*. To do the former, you need to destroy towers. Therefore, surrender would become an option when:
- X amount of time has expired
AND
- None of your towers have fallen (or taken damage) within the last Y minutes of the previous falling
Really, all you want to do is prevent drawn out games. Even if you sit in base you can get an abandon. So what you need to do is give the winning team some sort of incentive (or limit) by which they must try to complete the objective or the other (losing) team can just surrender.
*The obvious caveat being mentioned that if you sit in base to let the other team push you can potentially get an abandon. So you can't just sit in base and let the creeps push.
Cyborgmatt
Member
Well approx 100k are being let in daily if that makes you feel better (give or take depending on the region etc).
What's this about Steam servers? Didn't see anything about that. Did they add more or?
Man it always gets me when people get scared like this about playing with others. The people that suck far outnumber the people that play well.
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