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Dota 2 |OT| To Hell and Back and Back to Hell
- Thread starter Artanisix
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It's only downhill for the community from here, which is ironic.
Dota 2 GAF will slowly turn into the monstrosity that was HoNGAF until a new dota like game arrives.
The cycle continues.
Should I reserve the Strife OT?
You better reserve the beta thread.
It's only a matter of time before this turns into the forum thread equivalent of Detroit.
rhophiehalul78
Member
Have to side with Hylian here. Jinada early game is godly , supports will melt in 2 to 3 hits. You need the mana for your 2 levels of shadowwalk for ganking/escaping. Add the power of Orb of Venom to make sure targets cannot escape.
Also, I like building battlefury (hate me now) and SnY, I have more fun ingame building those items.
Sure, it's free and the slow is quite useful BUT if you didn't get phase boots because the early laning fase didn't go so well, you'll miss out on a LOT of kills because you weren't able to get that last hit in. Shuri's range is pretty insane and having at maxed asap is gonna really help you get a gank early on.
I've tried out a lot of builds and just found that Jinada maxed is usually inefficient/useless because they managed to get away. I am aware that track gives you the speed boost, but since you're really squishy early game, diving towers for that last jinada hit is gonna end in a lot of failed ganks or even worse getting killed yourself. Also the attack speed and movement speed slow doesn't change at higher levels of Jinada, so 1 lvl early on should be enough.
I always go for a couple of ganks mid with bounty once I get level six (sometimes earlier) and having a higher level shuri toss really helps with those ganks, since tower diving early on is gonna get you killed.
Also like I mentioned in my previous post, damage wise it's not gonna do that much early game, because it's based on his current damage and early that's kind of shit.
Once you get that mkb/deso up, the jinada fun really starts.
Have to side with Hylian here. Jinada early game is godly , supports will melt in 2 to 3 hits. You need the mana for your 2 levels of shadowwalk for ganking/escaping. Add the power of Orb of Venom to make sure targets cannot escape.
Also, I like building battlefury (hate me now) and SnY, I have more fun ingame building those items.
And supports melt a lot faster from a level 4 shuri toss because it does a wopping 325 dmg. Those level 4 jinada hits early game don't have that much of an impact because you lack the base damage. And shadowwalk level 2 is a must I agree (although sometimes it's ok to keep it at level 1 if you're doing good), thing is though shadow walks mana cost doesn't change. You should be going for a vladimirs anyway (*except I go urn if my farm isn't that great) which should solve all of your mana problems early game (going bottle also solves this).
And the part about not escaping: you're too squishy early game to actually chase them and dive towers.
Battlefury is a BIG waste of money on BH IMO, he's a lot better off with a Deso/MKB or if you got some pesky magic users/blinkers like Qop/AM an Orchid isn't a bad choice.
Have to side with Hylian here. Jinada early game is godly , supports will melt in 2 to 3 hits. You need the mana for your 2 levels of shadowwalk for ganking/escaping. Add the power of Orb of Venom to make sure targets cannot escape.
Also, I like building battlefury (hate me now) and SnY, I have more fun ingame building those items.
http://hydra-images.cursecdn.com/dota2.gamepedia.com/0/02/Axe_deny_15.mp3
Battlefury gives you nothing that you need. You get a cleave. Woo freaking hoo, 90% of the time you're taking people on 1v1. If everyone is seriously clumped up to be hit by a Jinada Cleave, then they dun fucked up big time.
Items you could get that are more useful that Battle Fury: Medallion of Courage, Desolator, MKB, Butterfly, Basher/Abyssal, S&Y (you mentioned that), Halberd, Diffusal (situationally for something like Warlock), Scythe of Vyse, Orchid, Atos, or hell, even a Dagon just for shits and giggles.
Battle Fury Bounty Hunter is objectively garbage, stop buying it.
Ah thanks, I see this quite often though. I guess it's because it's in BH's recommended items. Any reason for that? Just outdated?
Know why you don't have your Phase Boots? Because you are spending a billion gold on the TPs to go back to the fountain and recover your mana, or wasting time walking around asking your support for Mana Boots when it's off cooldown.
I don't understand why people get Bottle on offlane BH. He's not something like a Magnus, who you can make a case for Bottle in offlane fork, where you're spamming spells quite a bit. Just get a Basilius/Aquila and max Jinada. You will have enough mana to do your Tracks and last hits with Shuriken on heroes if you need it.
Just stop by the Neogaf chatroom in game, there''ll probably be some people around.
I don't have to go back to fountain because Ring of basc keeps that mana going (building into Vlad's) or if going urn the sobi masks helps out.
Bottle can also solve your problems, but I haven't bought one in my last 15-20 bh games. It's not worth, especially since that is gonna set you back on your must have early game items like phase, drums, vlads/urn.
Monochromaticx
Member
Quick question, what made Lycan so "OP" around the time of TI2? and how was he nerfed?
His wolves made jungling easy and he was able to catch up incredibly fast if he was shut down. You had to dedicate a ton of resources to stop his early game farm, and even if you did that, he'd still have a Treads/Vlads/BKB by 15-20 minutes unless you sat on him 24/7.
His wolves received a huge nerf and he can't efficiently jungle early any more. Now he has to sit in safe lane and farm until 5-6. He's still a mid game powerhouse, but getting there is much more difficult.
His wolves received a huge nerf and he can't efficiently jungle early any more. Now he has to sit in safe lane and farm until 5-6. He's still a mid game powerhouse, but getting there is much more difficult.
rhophiehalul78
Member
Will try skipping battlefury next time as the real problem I have is his squishiness. As I mentioned, I just like (and more fun for me) building battlefury and clearing waves of creeps for pushing/counterpushing. I also build basher after sny.
I have only good things to say for Medallion of Courage so I might pick it up as my 2nd item after drums.
What was nerfed in his wolves? damage, hp, armor? I have a hard time jungling with him especially in the early levels so I just lane until the wolves are sufficient for jungling.
That can't possibly give you enough mana to Track, Shadow Walk, AND Shuriken Toss when you need it.
And that's the problem right there: He's not a farmer, he's not a good candidate for pushing/counter pushing. Have either your main carry clear those waves for the farm or have lane pushing hero like NP/Tinker/etc take care of pushing those lanes out.
BH is a ganker/roamer. Just keeping trying to snipe out those squishy supports or setup a gank with a team mate. He get's most of his gold/xp from tracked kills.
Leave the farming to the carries.
And would suggest trying to go Deso --> Mkb instead of that sny and basher.
Although it seems you pick those items because you like them ;-)
True, but it's still possible and feasible to jungle from level 1 onwards; you need a different item build and juggle those wolves around.
Also stacking and pulling the creep camps into the lanes will help you get that jungle farm going.
Yes it does if you don't spam that shuriken all the time, just harras with jinada and keep that shuri to finish them off.
And tp'ing back to base to regen hp and mana followed by switching to another lane for a gank is not a bad idea IMO.
Enemy team will call out missing but they can't sentry ward every lane early on anyway. Especially mid is susceptible to those early ganks from BH.
Rightfully so, I remember those days. One of the most viable solutions was to take Bounty Hunter and last hit his jungle creeps and his wolves. Even then you had to dedicate one person to sit on him 24/7.
Monochromaticx
Member
I see, thanks.
yep, yyf (i think?) skill build is still the best one imo 2/1/2/1 -> 2/3/2/1 -> 4/3/2/1
Lycan and his wolves had massive starting amour. 5. He could jungle at lvl 1 easier than furion can
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Yeah, imagine a hero who requires the constant counter-gank of Phantom Lancer and now make him a very real threat starting at like the ten minute mark. It was miserable.
plop, icefraud nerf pls
solid mike
Member
Dat double kill early by хбоцт's Alchemist
Dat first Roshan fight
Dendi going for Daedalus instead of Deso
Those TP cancellations by s4
WHAT A FUCKING GAME
Dat first Roshan fight
Dendi going for Daedalus instead of Deso
Those TP cancellations by s4
WHAT A FUCKING GAME
There's going to be a lot of failed ganks due to broken tethers and zero vision. It will be glorious.
Schweinehund
Member
Still pumped from those grand finals. I'm just glad there was a good mix of teams going into the top 5 instead of all china.
I hope we get LC this week and that they were just chilling on her because they didn't want to break the game 2 weeks before TI. If it is anything like last year though, we won't see her for a few weeks.
I hope we get LC this week and that they were just chilling on her because they didn't want to break the game 2 weeks before TI. If it is anything like last year though, we won't see her for a few weeks.
If you want it for creeps maxing it is setting you back because of the mana cost increase, and you don't need the extra damage anyway for creep last hits.
I would find quite 'sad' ( can't find a proper word ) for them to work on it because of that ( thus acknowledging that it's the most wanted hero ) but then put him on hold for hero with less work done just because they aren"t forced to do what the community want through the compendium, since the stretch goal isn't meet.
"we know you want that, we even began working on it but hey, you guys didn't spend enough money so just keep waiting."
SteveWinwood
Member
we know what you guys think you want, but we know better
Matchmaking is fuuuuuuuuuuuucked. Searched for 12 miuntes, no game. Restarted currently at 8:38.
15 mins here
balladofwindfishes
Member
Techies have completed final concept art (for awhile now) and there's ample amounts of code for their abilities, enough to get them working with only some minor hacking by Cyborgmatt.
Whether we reached the goal or not, Techies were next. They knew Techies were going to win the poll and had worked on them, they basically just made it a dummy goal to sell more compendiums.
No other hero besides Legion Commander has as much done as Techies, although I think some Ember Spirit stuff will show up very soon. Techies are next, the goal was pointless (and Valve knew this) just to sell more and be a big end goal.
Nirvana
Member
Man oh man, was really hoping Na'vi would take that win, sooo close. I suppose it was Alliance's to win, but I feel like Na'vi threw away game 1 with that Venge strat and they should have sucked it up and done what used to be their standard wisp/bat bans for game 5. Those 2 heroes just entirely shift how you have to play and that prophet wisp backdooring was just awful to watch.
I've heard a lot of people saying it was a cheap way for Alliance to win, and although I kind of agree, fucking Na'vi used fountain Pudge hooks to beat Tongfu, so I can't complain that much haha.
Still great games and although a little butthurt, Alliance probably deserved the win more due to their performance being so solid recently; but Na'vi will always be 10 times more entertaining to watch.
Also, fucking Xboct should get some sort of award for the best of 5, he played so goddamn well in those matches and despite everyone bitching that he was the weak link on Na'vi, I thought he played some of the best carry play I've ever seen.
GGs all round....I'm still butthurt though.
I've heard a lot of people saying it was a cheap way for Alliance to win, and although I kind of agree, fucking Na'vi used fountain Pudge hooks to beat Tongfu, so I can't complain that much haha.
Still great games and although a little butthurt, Alliance probably deserved the win more due to their performance being so solid recently; but Na'vi will always be 10 times more entertaining to watch.
Also, fucking Xboct should get some sort of award for the best of 5, he played so goddamn well in those matches and despite everyone bitching that he was the weak link on Na'vi, I thought he played some of the best carry play I've ever seen.
GGs all round....I'm still butthurt though.
balladofwindfishes
Member
As far as hero work is concerned for the future...
Legion Commander: Basically done, just some minor polish. She'll be out before August is over is my guess, possibly even this week if Valve is really ready to bounce back from TI3.
Pheonix: Nothing
Earth Spirit: Nothing
Abyssal Underlord: Lots of rough concepts for him, not much else
Ember Spirit: Very polished, near complete concept art. Very well could be entirely done concepting
Arc Warden: Very polished, near complete concept art. Same as Ember Spirit, although I don't see him being added until he's CM ready
Soul Keeper: Really rough, very very early concept art
Techies: Finished concept, abilities are being coded
Oracle: Nothing
Winter Wyvern: Voice actress credit, nothing else
If I'd guess the next three heroes, I'd pick...
Legion Commander -> Techies -> Ember Spirit
Legion Commander: Basically done, just some minor polish. She'll be out before August is over is my guess, possibly even this week if Valve is really ready to bounce back from TI3.
Pheonix: Nothing
Earth Spirit: Nothing
Abyssal Underlord: Lots of rough concepts for him, not much else
Ember Spirit: Very polished, near complete concept art. Very well could be entirely done concepting
Arc Warden: Very polished, near complete concept art. Same as Ember Spirit, although I don't see him being added until he's CM ready
Soul Keeper: Really rough, very very early concept art
Techies: Finished concept, abilities are being coded
Oracle: Nothing
Winter Wyvern: Voice actress credit, nothing else
If I'd guess the next three heroes, I'd pick...
Legion Commander -> Techies -> Ember Spirit
rhophiehalul78
Member
Im having trouble finding matches too.... approximately 20 mins searching now... -_-
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