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Dota 2 |OT| To Hell and Back and Back to Hell
- Thread starter Artanisix
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Sigismundo
Member
It takes about half an hour to go through the mandatory portion.
I have to say I prefer farming DK to ganking DK. Actually taking the time to be a ridiculously strong dragon late game feels good.
Pureauthor
Member
Pretty sure all the single player stuff for the tutorial is mandatory.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Oh my god Match ID?
shira
Member
smurf confirmed
Doesn't stumpy kinda look like one of the treants you can have? :L
rhophiehalul78
Member
move over shagbark, Nature's Prophet has a new courier.
And whats up with people going afk during single draft picks? Happened the last three games we played. I don't understand this, you have to be at the keyboard to accept the game invite, how can you be afk for picking? Wasn't even that the loading took longer than usual. And than you have to pause and wait for them to show up and buy their items.
Yea i do too, his regen is just that good for early laning
Had a 1v1 at botlane yesterday against a spirit breaker, i had randomed DK so i had both a quelling and a stout and he kept fighting me in my creeps and after every exchange he'd rage in all caps that he wasn't getting any bashes and i'd just regen up in no time, i had free farm basically and DK gets really strong with items
RubxQub
ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎÎ³Î»Î¿Ï Ïον καί ÏÎµÏ Î´Î¿Î»Ïγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
I'm starting to queue RD exclusively at this point to get around the whole AP-syndrome revolving around not picking anyone at all until 30 seconds after the 00:00 mark.
...but yeah, it baffles me that someone can hit accept on a game and immediately jump away from their computer...only to find out that not only was it Random Draft...but they had first pick and blew it.
It would take you literally 5 extra seconds to see what the game-type was and your potential drafting position!
To be fair the game sometimes has the "YOU WILL BE PICKING NEXT" notification when it's actually your turn to pick right now.
RubxQub
ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎÎ³Î»Î¿Ï Ïον καί ÏÎµÏ Î´Î¿Î»Ïγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
Does that audio-cue EVER work?! I've actually missed a pick, while staring at my screen, because of that once.
I can more easily forgive that than being AFK.
I always get the "it's your turn to pick" when my turn has actually just finished...
In general, what's the best way to deal with mana issues on carry heroes that burn through it very quickly such as Bounty Hunter?
In a game that just ended, I was BH and I bought a Perseverance and upgraded that to a Battlefury. Ended up farming up really well thanks to Cleave and Track gold and I was able to spam Track and invis which helped a lot. But I'm not sure that's the best item build for him though BH certainly feels very flexible in terms of what he can or should build.
In a game that just ended, I was BH and I bought a Perseverance and upgraded that to a Battlefury. Ended up farming up really well thanks to Cleave and Track gold and I was able to spam Track and invis which helped a lot. But I'm not sure that's the best item build for him though BH certainly feels very flexible in terms of what he can or should build.
Dude Abides
Banned
Any views on making the transition from Limited Heroes to All-Pick? I have about 50 hours in and I can do alright with Drow and Lich in Limited. What's the best way to ensure a smooth transition. I haven't found people as assholish as I feared in Limited - is it worse in All-Pick?
Orchid can often be a good pickup with BH. It should solve most mana issues and is great if the enemy has lots of escape heroes.
Uh. I guess that's still on the recommended items list then.
BF is the worst item for BH.
He's way more effective with other items.
Usually I go Poor man's shield, phase boots, vlad's (or urn if someone else is picking it up), drums and then Deso into MKB.
The RoB you use for vlads usually helps with the mana and one trick you could start using is; when TP'ing from fountain; activate the invis when still at the fountain (won't cancel the tp).
He's not very mana intensive imo, but if you want, you could skip deso and get an orchid first. That kinda solves the mana issue for the rest of the game.
Imp the Dimp
Member
Anything but Battlefury. A decent item progression is Phase Boots, Medaillon, Desolator, BKB and then whatever. Orchid is really good against mobile heroes as well.
Perseverance/Bfury increases your mana by a % of your natural mana regen. Bounty Hunter only gains 1.4 int per level, so his mana gain is quite low naturally. Getting Drums of Endurance will give you +9 to your intelligence, which offers a good amount of mana. The other item that makes a big difference is Magic Wand.
You really don't need Bfury - it's a farming item and BH is capable of farming heroes and shouldn't be in lane/jungle killing creeps. The regen + hefty damage boost is nice, but you'd get much more out of a desolator. Not only does your own damage increase, but as BH is naturally a team fighter, it'll help your team's carry do extra damage with the -armor.
The last two items that help your mana that are a good fit on BH are Vlad's and Orchid. Vlad's helps out your carry with the lifesteal and +damage aura, but it also has armor and mana regen (that is a raw number, not a %). Orchid has mana regen, attack speed, and of course the damage amplify+silence. It's really useful when you're against heroes with escape spells, like Furion, QOP, Weaver, PL, etc. AM of course it's good on but he almost always gets Manta so its usefulness only lasts so long.
Bfury really shouldn't be recommended for BH. My typical build is Poor Man's Shield, Magic Wand, Phase, Drums, BKB. I get Orchid or Deso depending on the needs of the game. If BKB carries are the biggest problem, Abyssal is doable but very expensive.
RubxQub
ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎÎ³Î»Î¿Ï Ïον καί ÏÎµÏ Î´Î¿Î»Ïγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
Let me put it this way: 50 hours is enough time to understand the basic elements of the game.
- You get that lanes exist
- You get that shops have items
- You know last hitting is a thing
- You understand that some items are better than others for certain heroes
...this is enough to take your dip in the pool proper.
People may not always be the nicest people on the planet, but if you're up front with the fact that you haven't played certain heroes or know what they do (on either your side or their side), people tend to take that easier than just feeding to someone without any explanation.
I say take the plunge. 50 hours is enough. Much of the learning you need to do at this point is learning the heroes, and limited won't help you with that.
Thanks guys. I suspected Battlefury wasn't the most cost-effective item for BH but it was listed as core under the recommended items tab so without much time to think while in-game, I just went with it. Went with a Vlad's, Deso and Heart after that and it worked out pretty well, I'd say.
EDIT: Also, while it sounded like my initial question was about BH but it really isn't. I was just wondering about mana regen in general for non-intel heroes that need to cast a lot. Orchid seems like a nice item though.
EDIT: Also, while it sounded like my initial question was about BH but it really isn't. I was just wondering about mana regen in general for non-intel heroes that need to cast a lot. Orchid seems like a nice item though.
Dude Abides
Banned
Thanks. Guess I'll jump in tonight. Would you recommend sticking with the heroes I know (Drow and Lich) or is there another one I should learn with bot practice before taking the plunge?
RubxQub
ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎÎ³Î»Î¿Ï Ïον καί ÏÎµÏ Î´Î¿Î»Ïγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
I'll say that it's easier to learn heroes by playing them than to play against them, but sticking with people you're familiar with could be helpful in easing you into things.
Something I did a lot was play Single Draft to keep my options limited, but encourage a lot of diversity in my picks and the picks of others. You probably need to play each hero at least once or at the very least play AGAINST them a few times to fully appreciate what they can do.
You're going to make mistakes by being caught off-guard by different things you didn't know could happen, but Dota is all about learning from your mistakes. We all went through that phase of our Dota lives, it's just rough-patch you need to push through.
The good news is that it's all fun while learning!
Gully State
Member
Battlefury isn't very good on BH as it's a farm accelerating item for the most part and BH should be getting ganks. Battlefury Gondars from what I've seen end up split pushing lanes and avoiding fights which makes them ignore track. In terms of mana, best thing to do is not spam windwalk as much and use shuriken only to score kills or cancel tp's. Orchid is an excellent item for BH against mobile characters like antimage but imo it's a situational build. Vlads is great if you find yourself going to fountain too much and medallion allows you to contribute against teams that buy detection.
Go into an all bot match and pick any hero that looks interesting. Mess around and quit out, then pick another one. Because it's practice mode with no other human players there's no penalty for leaving, so you can quickly try out a number of heroes. Everyone has different tastes and abilities, so there's no one list that suits them. That said, melee heroes tend to be harder than ranged heroes.
Dude Abides
Banned
Carries that burn through mana fast need a bigger mana pool more than they need regen. You'll get your mana back from teammates with Arcane boots and eventual fountain trips. Orchid is an item for hunter-type heroes, and generally is out of place on non-int heroes. BH is one of the few non-int heroes who it works well on. I actually use it on Lifestealer as well, but only if it seems like it's gonna be an easy game
Sven, Lifestealer and CK, who burn through mana really quickly, benefit massively from Drums, and generally don't need mana regen, since you are looking to be powerful in engagements, not self-sustaining (unlike BH, who is a pure roamer and should look to sustain himself, though as I said Drums still fit BH). PL can burn through mana really quickly, but Diffusal has +int on it, and getting a Diffusal is first priority.
RubxQub
ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎÎ³Î»Î¿Ï Ïον καί ÏÎµÏ Î´Î¿Î»Ïγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
No Dazzle?!
That's criminal, dude. Shallow Grave'ing people at the last moment is like crack in teamfights.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
For me the list is down to Lone Druid, Doom, Magnus and Skywrath. There are a few others though, like Earthshaker, Pudge, and Lina, who I only played a couple times when I was first starting out. I should give them a shot again.
I think I might start playing Dazzle and LD.
There's about a dozen or so I've only played once or twice.
JakkuFurosu
Member
theres about 5 i WILL NOT touch due to michael skills needed.
Probably shouldnt actively avoid them but meh
Probably shouldnt actively avoid them but meh
Schweinehund
Member
Lone Druid & Chen are very rewarding. LD is probably my favorite agility carry when it comes to wanting to win, he is insanely good, his laning options are very flexible and pushing towers are the key to winning pubs imo. Don't let his win rate on dotabuff decieve you, in the right hands with pub leadership he can win most ap games.
Chen is very fun but he has to make or break the game in 20 mins or his usefulness starts to wear off. Its hard to make him work in pubs.
Dazzle is boring as shit though.
http://dotabuff.com/matches/286986524
scumbag warlock helped carry game against scumbag visage
SteveWinwood
Member
Dazzle is boring if you suck with him I guess.
Schweinehund
Member
i shallowgrave at 5% because i can.
electroshockwave
Member
I think I've played everyone at least once. Pudge, Earth and Lina are all so fun I'm surprised that you haven't played them more. Super satisfying when you pull off a good stun or hook and blink + echo slam into a large group of enemies feels great (SURPRISE MOTHAFUCKA).
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