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[Anteo]

1. Those things don't suddenly become dangerous when you use bkb, they are just as dangerous if you don't use bkb, bkb will however block most other spells, that's not a risk, that's less risk.

2. I disagree, it costs only 900g more than a shadowblade, gives nearly as much damage (more if str hero), gives no attack speed but quite a nice health boost. And has much better utility that is much harder to counter (180g dust). Not shit stats at all.

3. Using an item stupidly is not a good argument. An idiot can use a dagon on a creep, but that's not the point. A well used bkb has a bigger impact than any other item in the game.

Please don't start with the "bait it out" LoL flash argument. Doesn't make it any less broken.

1. It becomes dangerous in the sense that you just wasted 3900 gold on a item that is not helping you to survive at all. +190 hp for 3900 is a waste.

2. Shadowblade has a cooldown of 18 secs. That alone makes up for whatever extra damage you get with bkb. Still both items are utility items, neither is supposed to boost your damage and both are shit if you just want raw damage. Shadowblade adds attack speed and movement speed but somehow that doesnt count for you.

3. Using it wrong or being baited into using it early/late means that again, you just wasted 3900 gold on a item that only helps you to survive if you use it. If you can't use it in battle it is useles, unlike Heart of Tarrask that gives you HP no matter what.

Can someone direct me to a good video to learn how to animation cancel and orbwalk? I can't figure it out from videos I've watched.

What exactly you can't figure it out? Timing? What keys to press? Why should one use it?

 

[TommyT]

Can someone direct me to a good video to learn how to animation cancel and orbwalk? I can't figure it out from videos I've watched.

Basically, you press A and left click a target. As soon as that attack leaves your character and is traveling to hit your target, you right click (or press M and left click) an area to move. This process is repeated quickly. And these are default settings as well.

(unless you're talking about attack animation cancelling?)

Orb walking is essentially the same thing except you use an activated orb skill (Drow's frost arrows or Silencer's Glaives). Use your orb skill, walk, orb skill, walk, etc.

 

[Procarbine]

1. Those things don't suddenly become dangerous when you use bkb, they are just as dangerous if you don't use bkb, bkb will however block most other spells, that's not a risk, that's less risk.

2. I disagree, it costs only 900g more than a shadowblade, gives nearly as much damage (more if str hero), gives no attack speed but quite a nice health boost. And has much better utility that is much harder to counter (180g dust). Not shit stats at all.

3. Using an item stupidly is not a good argument. An idiot can use a dagon on a creep, but that's not the point. A well used bkb has a bigger impact than any other item in the game.

Please don't start with the "bait it out" LoL flash argument. Doesn't make it any less broken.

1: Disabling someone during a bkb renders their 3900g purchase into 10 strength and 24 damage, not that your comparison is valid at all. Ghost Scepter costs half as much and ought to have a weakness, but you're wrong in saying it slows you down, that's the offensive use of eth blade. There are tons of unmeasurables that are here as well, wasting a carry's time chasing you around only to have you ghost scepter (which lasts nearly half as long as max duration bkb and just as long as min duration bkb) can be extremely frustrating for them and beneficial to you.

2: Arguing the relative utility of these items is silly, it's apples to oranges. But, not only is shadowblade NOT simply countered by dust, which does NOTHING when sb is used offensively, but purchasing this puts an immediate tax on enemy supports/gankers, forcing them to burn money on detection.

3: He wasn't talking about using an item stupidly, he was stating that every time you activate that bkb it costs you something more after its initial purchase, its value depreciates every time. Forcing people to use it to try to just survive is a huge win for you, the 4 second duration is much easier to deal with. Burning a bkb charge to simply tp away just cost him 135 gold and 1 second from that bkb AND gives you a ~one minute window to force a fight, take a rosh, etc.

 

[DivineRage002]

Yes they do, the point of a BKB is so you can do things you normally couldn't go, such as stay alive in teamfights without getting locked down. With a Naga net to worry about, you don't have the freedom to do this. So you bought the BKB for that Tidehunter ult, but if Naga shows up in the right place in the right time and nets you, surviving that Tidehunter ult means nothing.

I'm not sure I get your point, but by using bkb you ignored one of the the biggest initiations in the game. Sure Naga gets you still, but like I said NaVi banned her and let both batrider and wisp through. She's probably the single most powerful hero in the game right now simply due to how she's the only hero that actually punishes you for going magic immune.

Even if you used say, bane to lock you down. Sure, you'll die by right clicks, but by not having bkb not only would you die by right clicks, but you'd also take a huge stun and damage from tide, followed by nukes from the rest of his team. You're still MUCH better off with bkb. Still no risk unless its naga.

I'm not saying magic immunity is insta win. I'm saying it's much too powerful.

 

[Sibylus]

I'm starting to think bkb is broken.

There isn't even an item in the game I could have bought to try to do something besides the crazily expensive Abyssal.

Mekansm, Force Staff, Ghost Scepter, Eul's Scepter, Scythe of Vyse, etc.

Ur welcome.

 

[Trasher]

1: Disabling someone during a bkb renders their 3900g purchase into 10 strength and 24 damage, not that your comparison is valid at all. Ghost Scepter costs half as much and ought to have a weakness, but you're wrong in saying it slows you down, that's the offensive use of eth blade. There are tons of unmeasurables that are here as well, wasting a carry's time chasing you around only to have you ghost scepter (which lasts nearly half as long as max duration bkb and just as long as min duration bkb) can be extremely frustrating for them and beneficial to you.

2: Arguing the relative utility of these items is silly, it's apples to oranges. But, not only is shadowblade NOT simply countered by dust, which does NOTHING when sb is used offensively, but purchasing this puts an immediate tax on enemy supports/gankers, forcing them to burn money on detection.

3: He wasn't talking about using an item stupidly, he was stating that every time you activate that bkb it costs you something more after its initial purchase, its value depreciates every time. Forcing people to use it to try to just survive is a huge win for you, the 4 second duration is much easier to deal with. Burning a bkb charge to simply tp away just cost him 135 gold and 1 second from that bkb AND gives you a ~one minute window to force a fight, take a rosh, etc.

y r u so gud at game

 

[TommyT]

You gotta be trolling at this point :|

 

[Anteo]

I'm not sure I get your point, but by using bkb you ignored one of the the biggest initiations in the game. Sure Naga gets you still, but like I said NaVi banned her and let both batrider and wisp through. She's probably the single most powerful hero in the game right now simply due to how she's the only hero that actually punishes you for going magic immune.

Even if you used say, bane to lock you down. Sure, you'll die by right clicks, but by not having bkb not only would you die by right clicks, but you'd also take a huge stun and damage from tide, followed by nukes from the rest of his team. You're still MUCH better off with bkb. Still no risk unless its naga.

I'm not saying magic immunity is insta win. I'm saying it's much too powerful.

You know what is too powerfull? This:

but you'd also take a huge stun and damage from tide, followed by nukes from the rest of his team

That's why bkb exists, to counter exaclty this bullshit right here that has no answer in a world without magic inmunity.

 

[Procarbine]

I'm not sure I get your point, but by using bkb you ignored one of the the biggest initiations in the game. Sure Naga gets you still, but like I said NaVi banned her and let both batrider and wisp through. She's probably the single most powerful hero in the game right now simply due to how she's the only hero that actually punishes you for going magic immune.

Even if you used say, bane to lock you down. Sure, you'll die by right clicks, but by not having bkb not only would you die by right clicks, but you'd also take a huge stun and damage from tide, followed by nukes from the rest of his team. You're still MUCH better off with bkb. Still no risk unless its naga.

I'm not saying magic immunity is insta win. I'm saying it's much too powerful.

Why does an item need a risk? What other items have a risk? It's all about ROI.

 

[shira]

is gud

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/dota-today/id655472217?mt=2

 

[JustinBB7]

Can't wait for the patch.

 

[Schweinehund]

I just did something I haven't done since my first few months playing dota 2.

I won as bloodseeker!

He actually works well against timber, that silence really screws him up.

 

[ajosephmartinez]

Basically, you press A and left click a target. As soon as that attack leaves your character and is traveling to hit your target, you right click (or press M and left click) an area to move. This process is repeated quickly. And these are default settings as well.

(unless you're talking about attack animation cancelling?)

Orb walking is essentially the same thing except you use an activated orb skill (Drow's frost arrows or Silencer's Glaives). Use your orb skill, walk, orb skill, walk, etc.

Thanks! Is it something that takes a lot of practicing? Maybe best done against bots?

And orb walking is similar except with a power?

 

[arkon]

Why are they like 13 years old? I never understood the hentai craze, I had some friends that were really into that shit.

Not all characters in hentai are that young. Or so I'm told.

 

[TommyT]

Thanks! Is it something that takes a lot of practicing? Maybe best done against bots?

And orb walking is similar except with a power?

It takes practice in the sense that you need to learn when to move with specific heroes as their animation is different. You want to push that line as close to the threshold as possible so that you're getting as many attacks + as much distance as possible. If you move too early you lose all that attack animation.

This type of attacking is really good for when someone is running from you. You might only get 2 attacks before they run out of range and you might not catch them; but if you animation cancel/orb walk you could get in 4 or 5 attacks before you need to run after.

The term 'orb' refers to an orb attack modifier. If a hero has an orb skill that's activated (Drow, Clinkz, Silencer, etc.) it will not draw aggro as a normal right click would. Therefore, you can use the orb-walk method to attack someone without creeps attacking you as you chase them down.

So no, orb walking is the same as animation cancelling to move and attack quicker mechanics wise. The difference is the activation of an orb skill added on.
(This scenario being pressing Q on Drow, then A, leftclick an enemy hero, move, press Q, press A, left click enemy hero)

 

[shira]

Can someone direct me to a good video to learn how to animation cancel and orbwalk? I can't figure it out from videos I've watched.

fuck me I still don't know how to animation cancel when melee attacking a tower. Too slow.

 

[aeolist]

She's probably the single most powerful hero in the game right now simply due to how she's the only hero that actually punishes you for going magic immune.

fucking lol

 

[Anbokr]

I'm not sure I get your point, but by using bkb you ignored one of the the biggest initiations in the game. Sure Naga gets you still, but like I said NaVi banned her and let both batrider and wisp through. She's probably the single most powerful hero in the game right now simply due to how she's the only hero that actually punishes you for going magic immune.

Even if you used say, bane to lock you down. Sure, you'll die by right clicks, but by not having bkb not only would you die by right clicks, but you'd also take a huge stun and damage from tide, followed by nukes from the rest of his team. You're still MUCH better off with bkb. Still no risk unless its naga.

I'm not saying magic immunity is insta win. I'm saying it's much too powerful.

It's powerful because magic damage/CC is very powerful in this game. Look at LoL spells compared to Dota spells--BKB allows these to exist. Just try to imagine a game with a severely weakened BKB, say 3s duration at purchase or a game completely without BKB. It would be a deathball nuke nightmare.

There's nothing more frustrating in PvP games than an endless CC chain. Look at every single MMO--they all have ways of dealing with CC chains--whether that be a "trinket," temporary immunity, diminishing returns, or some other system--there is a system in place to make sure this doesn't happen. BKB is essentially dota's check to powerful CC.

Many people have argued over the years to remove BKB and put in a system of diminishing returns for disables, but I'm personally not a fan of that route. I think BKB is in a good place right now, it's been nerfed plenty since it's first inception.

 

[Anteo]

fuck me I still don't know how to animation cancel when melee attacking a tower. Too slow.

I like to do a animation cancel after every last hit. I also do not like to spam "S" to lasthit, but move around, though now I use both.

Edit: Also, while I knew I could spam the attack command on a creep and that will cancel the animation, making it to start again, I never used it for last hits before. I'm starting to use it now.

 

[BraXzy]

Have the fantasy team items been given out yet? I had two and there's nothing in my inventory yet

 

[mkenyon]

is gud

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/dota-today/id655472217?mt=2

TY, been waiting awhile. I assume this is about TI3?

Also, was bummed to hear they were there and I didn't even get to meet them.

 

[DivineRage002]

Mekansm, Force Staff, Ghost Scepter, Eul's Scepter, Scythe of Vyse, etc.

Ur welcome.

Mek - yes
Force staff - helps me or one teammate get out, doesn't do much else.
Eul's - cant use on magic immune, can't use on allies, will only keep me alive for a few seconds.
Scythe - I'm a support, not alchemist. Even then I would have to get the jump on them.

 

[DivineRage002]

You know what is too powerfull? This:



That's why bkb exists, to counter exaclty this bullshit right here that has no answer in a world without magic inmunity.

How do you survive magnus or enigma then?

Positioning.

 

[DivineRage002]

fucking lol

Fucking lol navi scrubs first banning naga lol get rekt navi nubs.

 

[Gofu]

If magic immunity is as powerful as you seem to think it is, why does omniknight see literal no play? He has a FREE BKB ON ANYONE THAT LASTS FOR 12 SECONDS ON A 14 SECOND COOLDOWN. HOW IS THAT NOT BROKEN? BKB IS THE MOST POWERFUL EFFECT IN THE GAME FOREVER

 

[aeolist]

Fucking lol navi scrubs first banning naga lol get rekt navi nubs.

she's #11 on the list of most picked/banned heroes from ti3, and i count several heroes above her who don't do anything or do very little against magic immunity

 

[DivineRage002]

she's #11 on the list of most picked/banned heroes from ti3, and i count several heroes above her who don't do anything or do very little against magic immunity

And yet egm forced navi to ban her above even the notirious batrider.

 

[aeolist]

If magic immunity is as powerful as you seem to think it is, why does omniknight see literal no play? He has a FREE BKB ON ANYONE THAT LASTS FOR 12 SECONDS ON A 14 SECOND COOLDOWN. HOW IS THAT NOT BROKEN? BKB IS THE MOST POWERFUL EFFECT IN THE GAME FOREVER

guardian angel affects allies who are magic immune too, omniknight op volvo plz nerf

 

[aeolist]

And yet egm forced navi to ban her above even the notirious batrider.

she was first ban in the finals specifically because alliance plays her well

i don't recall this happening in any other matchup so consistently

 

[Anbokr]

And yet egm forced navi to ban her above even the notirious batrider.

shoulda first banned omniknight imo

 

[Sibylus]

Mek - yes
Force staff - helps me or one teammate get out, doesn't do much else.
Eul's - cant use on magic immune, can't use on allies, will only keep me alive for a few seconds.
Scythe - I'm a support, not alchemist. Even then I would have to get the jump on them.

All said items waste seconds of valuable BKB time, yo. There's your counter.

And if you've never been able to afford a Hex as a support, gotta work on improving what brief farming opportunities are open to you. 2100 for the ultimate orb and saving from there isn't witchcraft.

 

[ksan]

shoulda first banned omniknight imo

well, if u let both of them through you can go for the dreaded omni/naga combo, and just repel a guy in the enemy team and fuck him up during sleep
broken meta, volvo fix pls

 

[DivineRage002]

she was first ban in the finals specifically because alliance plays her well

i don't recall this happening in any other matchup so consistently

Agreed, but it's by seeing the very best playing that you get an accurate idea of how to use a hero. The chinese don't pick or ban wisp, doesn't make it a bad pick as was shown. Naga was basically a stealth powerhouse until egm showed the world what she was capable of. I bet we'll see a lot more of her from now on.

 

[DivineRage002]

If magic immunity is as powerful as you seem to think it is, why does omniknight see literal no play? He has a FREE BKB ON ANYONE THAT LASTS FOR 12 SECONDS ON A 14 SECOND COOLDOWN. HOW IS THAT NOT BROKEN? BKB IS THE MOST POWERFUL EFFECT IN THE GAME FOREVER

I'm thinking it's like spirit breaker, two months ago it was basically a joke, until someone figures it out. I bet it'll be the same for omni.

 

[aeolist]

Agreed, but it's by seeing the very best playing that you get an accurate idea of how to use a hero. The chinese don't pick or ban wisp, doesn't make it a bad pick as was shown. Naga was basically a stealth powerhouse until egm showed the world what she was capable of. I bet we'll see a lot more of her from now on.

sure, but this is based around a lot more than net and song

she has great armor and even as a support can farm like a beast, plus riptide is useful for the entire course of the game

her flexibility is her strength, not just the fact that (in the right hands) she can counter certain strats

 

[Gofu]

I'm thinking it's like spirit breaker, two months ago it was basically a joke, until someone figures it out. I bet it'll be the same for omni.

You know the meta better than the pros. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

 

[mkenyon]

In this page: Learn to edit.

You know the meta better than the pros. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

I'm so glad someone else knows about this. I always bring it up

 

[DivineRage002]

You know the meta better than the pros. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

Dont get me wrong, I have no idea how to fit a team around omni and I'd pretty much always pick dazzle over him. But someone will end up finding a way.

 

[ksan]

I'm so glad someone else knows about this. I always bring it up

you just dunning krugered the dunning kruger by implying that you didnt know of many people knowing about it

Dont get me wrong, I have no idea how to fit a team around omni and I'd pretty much always pick dazzle over him. But someone will end up finding a way.

zero lane presence on a support, extremely hard to fit anywhere I think
i guess you could go do some old school na'vi crazy ass shit and run him offlane or quad lane (and then lose in the current state of the game)

 

[TommyT]

Dont get me wrong, I have no idea how to fit a team around omni and I'd pretty much always pick dazzle over him. But someone will end up finding a way.

Bu bu... you can Purge Repel!

random - Does anyone remember the 5-man mid lineup from the GB tourny that GAF did?

 

[Anbokr]

Dont get me wrong, I have no idea how to fit a team around omni and I'd pretty much always pick dazzle over him. But someone will end up finding a way.

i agree, imo omni and tuskarr are the most underrated heroes in the game, give it a month or two and both will be top bans.

 

[Hylian7]

Why the fuck would you go Blademail on Spectre? It's garbage. This guy is saying I just need to "Learn to play" because he bought it to fuck up Drow. Still not worth it.

http://dotabuff.com/matches/289419663

 

[Procarbine]

Why the fuck would you go Blademail on Spectre? It's garbage. This guy is saying I just need to "Learn to play" because he bought it to fuck up Drow. Still not worth it.

http://dotabuff.com/matches/289419663

XBOCT thinks it's a good enough pick up to buy first on spec in comp games, but then again he's only 4/10

 

[Gofu]

Why the fuck would you go Blademail on Spectre? It's garbage. This guy is saying I just need to "Learn to play" because he bought it to fuck up Drow. Still not worth it.

http://dotabuff.com/matches/289419663

Why the fuck would you go orb of venom on puck? It's garbage.

 

[lmpaler]

i agree, imo omni and tuskarr are the most underrated heroes in the game, give it a month or two and both will be top bans.

Omni is my man. He can destroy people, heal, nuke and play support. All at once.

 

[Technosteve]

XBOCT thinks it's a good enough pick up to buy first on spec in comp games, but then again he's only 4/10

xbox plz disband

 

[Rush2thestart]

That was a stomp though. You could have built two Rapiers and still won probably.

Mask of Madness is only good on certain heroes, and the rest shouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. Off the top of my head, I would say it is okay on these heroes:

Sven
Faceless Void
Tiny
Sniper (you better have a Shadow Blade though)
Spirit Breaker
Slardar
Night Stalker
Huskar (with the magic resistance buff you might be able to make a case for this one, but I have yet to see it)

On anyone else it is Mask of #YOLO and you should just get some real attack speed, movement speed, or damage instead.

I wholeheartedly disagree. Its a good item on most strength or agi heroes as long as you pick your fights well and get the correct accompanying items.

For strength heroes, they can usually afford to take the damage. I've gotten it on Doom and DK before, but not before Id get a heart or something.

For agi heroes, you need to be able to come in quick and do damage and leave. Preferably the hero needs some sort of mechanism to stop enemies from attacking you. PA has evasion, Drow has the slow, Riki has the cloud. Accompanying items include Basher or Shadowblade, etc.

In summary just play smart and its a damn good item.

 

[SteveWinwood]

Why the fuck would you go Blademail on Spectre? It's garbage. This guy is saying I just need to "Learn to play" because he bought it to fuck up Drow. Still not worth it.

http://dotabuff.com/matches/289419663

Looks like you fed too much compared to him.

 

[Drkirby]

Blood seekers silence is stupidly good early game, I wonder how much longer until he gets popular in competitive. Maybe just make thirst global, and or give him bonus agility under the effect. A bit more of anything should make him really viabal.

 

[Trasher]

Can you Blademail and ult on her or something?