Schweinehund
Member
try sven as your carry.
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Dota 2 |OT| To Hell and Back and Back to Hell
- Thread starter Artanisix
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I've only managed this once in a real game, I think. I can get 70 against bots but a combination of over aggressive lane supports, enemies constantly harassing me and a safe lane that is far from a safe lane always causes me to get less. It's also common for me to get supports who think they should auto attack the creeps and/or steal last hits. I've also been trying to work on keeping the lane static but that is so hard to do in a real setting, you need a support helping you to be certain.
Unless you get lucky with randoms or you're stacking, trying to play carry "properly" rarely works out (for me at least).
Alch and Sven both suck for new players. They're deceptively complicated. Sven's low mana pool, and knowing when to stun is harder than it would seem given how simple his abilities are. You have to be really aware, positionally, which is something new players aren't usually good at. Alch is way too squishy, with his pathetic armor amount, his base damage is balls too, and if you're new to the game you'll have a hell of a time getting around his stun and being able to catch people with it successfully.
Lifestealer and Chaos Knight are better - Chaos Knight has two direct damage abilities and removes the element of positioning because of his teleport skill, and is just as tanky as Sven.
Lone Druid doesn't require a babysitter and would be a good mention if it weren't for the fact that you're controlling two units, and one of them gives 300 gold on death.
Lifestealer and Chaos Knight are better - Chaos Knight has two direct damage abilities and removes the element of positioning because of his teleport skill, and is just as tanky as Sven.
Lone Druid doesn't require a babysitter and would be a good mention if it weren't for the fact that you're controlling two units, and one of them gives 300 gold on death.
Yeah that was a particularly bad time last hitting for me. I usually have a real hard time with characters I don't play often and I forget to get a quelling blade at the start. It's just excuses, but I'm not always that bad. The OD game I played yesterday I went mid and did pretty well on last hits. I'm inconsistent I guess. It agitates me when a friend of mine plays carry types all the time and fudges his way thru games just by auto attacking and pushing the lane up and I actually try that hard and whiff so much.
Jesus you went 30-3 and the other guys had an AFKer and your team STILL managed to outfeed the other guys! Fricken Dota, man...
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Yeah the refresher on Necro was kind of weird...
I don't carry much, but if I have too, I like to pick Gyro because I find he is easy to farm with, can man up and fight a 1v2 situation if forced to, and is effective in the laning stage. I completely ignore Homing Missile until Rocket Barrage and Flak Cannon are maxed, and go for Helm as my first item.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Another fairly simple carry is Luna. She can transition into and out of farming very quickly at any stage of the game if she's absolutely needed at a fight and the range on her nuke is ri-goddamn-diculous
Think they broke it with last update.
Looking at your Lifestealer replay you put up, the only way I could see your team losing that game (if I saw it from the pick screen) is if the enemy pugna was exceptionally good, but it wouldn't appear to be the case, given that he has a Mek (along with your Lich, who has higher GPM so I assume Lich got it first and Pubna just wasnt paying attention). Your Bounty Hunter teammate had a force staff and phase boots.. I can only hope that he sold all his other items to build the force and push enemy heroes into your fountain while they camped you at the end of the game
You don't need hatchet on Lifestealer, he has great base damage, and you should get Treads instead of phase. Phase is fine on Naix if you're able to run the enemy team over in the early game, and generally you need Drums or Armlet to go along side it because you're sacrificing some HP and attack speed by going with Phase. Also it looked like you were planning to go basher, which is a bad idea because basher requires attack speed to be effective and you had no attack speed items. Naix does have naturally high attack speed for a few seconds under rage, but you still want to have some kind of +AS, like the aforementioned drums, armlet, treads, etc.
That hatchet costs you 225 gold you could have used for healing items items so you can keep your HP up and last hit more confidently. Also, you were laning against either ES, Abaddon or DK. All those heroes are easy to sneak little swipes here and there to drain HP with feast, though if you were against an abaddon, getting kills in your lane would be really difficult, you should still be able to farm up just fine.
Nothing can save team carry from themselves.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Yep I posted about it the other day. Broke that feature last time they added a new chest as well.
electroshockwave
Member
Yeah, unfortunately when I say against human players I also mean your teammates. It's so infuriating when I try to play a hard support but when I'm the carry I get a CM nuking the creep waves for last hits or something.
I think she's possibly my favourite carry. Nice early game magic damage, her aura at level 1 makes those last hits easier and glaives is great for farming and helps you come back if you do have a bad start.
Watching it on and off. I'm at about 25 mins and I'm not too fond of your skill build. 1 point in doppel and maxing juxtapose doesn't really make sense to me. Levelling doppel makes your escape way more spammable. And those 2 blades of alacrity could have been a drum. You really need the extra HP and just a bracer earlier could have saved your life sometimes.
gank him early because he's absolute shit for the laning stage and midgame, sentries + dust are your friends
also aoe and cleave
This and try to keep up the pressure on the entire map, a few ganks on PL alone won't cut it, he'll get his farm eventually. Unless you've got perfect counters that also scale well into the late game on your team you pretty much have to finish before it gets late. If it gets really late you can have a farmed Kunkka or Sven and still get fucked over by the split push.
Hero makes for boring and unnecessarily long games you've got a good chance of ultimately losing if your team doesn't fully commit to early pushing, which randoms seldom do (in my experience at least).
Schweinehund
Member
he's a late game carry, but he's better at making it there than other ones are (medusa, spectre, am, void and so on) because he has a much larger lane presence with his nuke and a good escape.
go for a team fight/pushing hero lineup. You want to end the game before 30 minutes. You want to control the map, get into their jungle, ward it up, stop him from farming.
Shorty11857
Member
Damn Fnatic losing pretty heavily to VP, not good considering VP haven't been playing too well at all with their new lineup
no hes not alchemist excels because he farms more efficiently then other carries and can flash farm with acid spray hes really susceptible to ganks and honestly doesnt scale as hard as other carries he only wins because he outcarries the due to his overwhelming amount of items he gets because of greevils greed if hes not ahead in farm hell just keep getting ganked if the enemy team is any decent and then he becomes useless so hes not as good as people make him out to be
Do you guys have any tips for Templar Assassin? I got to play her for two single draft matches, and I liked her, but felt useless for most of the game
I dunno why but it feels really hard to kill with her. I don't think we had disables or stuns except for my friend who played Jakiro in the first game and used his Ice Path really well, so it was a case of either chasing someone or a team fight
I was able to farm really well and get my items - I got Phase Boots, Desolator and Daedalus for damage which led to insane farming, but I think I could give up one of these for another item which will provide more stats and make me more tanky, or even something to disable?
I think I got a BKB right at the end of the first game (would have probably helped me earlier), and a Blink in the second game which I didn't get to use very much. What's the trick with TA and Blink?
I dunno why but it feels really hard to kill with her. I don't think we had disables or stuns except for my friend who played Jakiro in the first game and used his Ice Path really well, so it was a case of either chasing someone or a team fight
I was able to farm really well and get my items - I got Phase Boots, Desolator and Daedalus for damage which led to insane farming, but I think I could give up one of these for another item which will provide more stats and make me more tanky, or even something to disable?
I think I got a BKB right at the end of the first game (would have probably helped me earlier), and a Blink in the second game which I didn't get to use very much. What's the trick with TA and Blink?
isnt this the first real match Fnatic has played in like a month though?
You activate the nearest trap that hits, blink next to your target, meld instantly, hit them with meldshot, hit them with your refraction charges, chase, next meld -> target should be dead.
I'll take a look at your naix game and comment on that later if that's ok
Practice that blink/run + meld hit, it's the cornerstone of her playstyle.
Also helps if you learn how to detonate traps without using her D. What do you is, immediately after laying down a trap you square select it and hit Q so that the trap detonates itself while TA is still moving. This will save a lot of time for chases instead of going through the D cast animation.
Also helps if you learn how to detonate traps without using her D. What do you is, immediately after laying down a trap you square select it and hit Q so that the trap detonates itself while TA is still moving. This will save a lot of time for chases instead of going through the D cast animation.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I was just going by what the top guide was suggesting. I don't know PL (or most non-support characters for that matter) well enough to have any kind of opinion one way or the other on how to build them but in thinking back on it I don't think there were any times where I needed dopple and it wasn't available, tho there was at least one or two times when I should have used it and didn't react fast enough.
TA's not a hard carry or good flash farmer, you need to be active during the early+mid game to secure a lead and get those damage items up through hero and tower kills and then gain even more map control. Kind of a like a Night Stalker but with more burst and less tank.
If your side lanes lack disables you'll most likely need a decent rune to make something happen without a Blink. The combo is Refraction (> Use/Detonate Trap) > Blink next to enemy > Meld > Right click, ideally shift-queued.
Your item progression highly depends on the enemy lineup, generally Phase/Treads+Blink will be your core, followed by either Deso or a BKB. Some players skip Blink and go for something like Phase+Drums but that never really worked for me personally.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Based N0tail.
Shorty11857
Member
They played a game yesterday, no idea if they've been scrimming though
Landed a good ice path today, pretty proud:
Oh my, you're all here ;p
Thanks. I'll try to practice that in a bot match
What do you guys think about items after the Phase + Blink + Deso/BKB? Assuming we are doing well and I have the gold for it, go for pure damage or maybe something like Manta or Butterfly?
Whatever counters the biggest danger to you. If I'm really ahead I tend to go for Daedalus, against a carry with evasion you'll want an MKB, Manta if there's spells to split out of and for the push potential, Bfly if the enemy relies on physical dps. If you feel that your damage output is sufficient and generally want to tank up a Heart or even Linken's might be worth looking into, finally an AC provides you with a nice mix between the two plus a great aura for your team.
shira
Member
Landed a good ice path today, pretty proud:
dat turn rate. WP
shira
Member
mastershake
Member
why give away wisp :/
SteveWinwood
Member
look at that tanky cm
Technosteve
Banned
this voice it hurts me
Technosteve
Banned
KP you suck road to TINEVER
shira
Member
Green Biker Dude
Banned
dw guys kaipi is just hiding their true power level. they're gonna turn ssj god now
also, ee thinks he so smart with his buyback "tactic". i've seen him doing it on stream before, but i didn't think he'd actually try it on a tournament game. he tells his team "dw guys i'll bait their skills then buy back" and then just dies first. he did that at the radiant t2, except by the time he was back there everyone had died and it was just him and orange so he couldn't do anything. hurr durr. maybe if he was playing spectre at least. i guess he thinks of it as his "signature move"
also, ee thinks he so smart with his buyback "tactic". i've seen him doing it on stream before, but i didn't think he'd actually try it on a tournament game. he tells his team "dw guys i'll bait their skills then buy back" and then just dies first. he did that at the radiant t2, except by the time he was back there everyone had died and it was just him and orange so he couldn't do anything. hurr durr. maybe if he was playing spectre at least. i guess he thinks of it as his "signature move"
SteveWinwood
Member
did no one else sign up for this tournament?
shira
Member
All the tier C teams did
http://www.dotatalk.com/brackets/steelseries-euro-cup-playoff-2
Trench tier rule of thumb,
Big item by 30 minutes,
Or you're dumb.
electroshockwave
Member
One of the facts in the Fnatic/VP game is that the average time for a battlefury on AM is 16.45. I'm guessing that's just from pro games, right? I'm never entirely sure what the timing for big items in pub games should be.
SteveWinwood
Member
this game is painful
War Peaceman
You're a big guy.
I don't think I've ever seen a pubber juggernaut (Pubbernaut?) do anything remotely good. They are always terrible. Bloodseekers aren't much better and the only occasions they are is when I face them.
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