• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Dota 2 |OT| To Hell and Back and Back to Hell

Status
Not open for further replies.
C

Calidor

Member
h0pper said:
I am fairly new to the game (only about 125 hours played) and I'm having trouble with team composition. I know that this is difficult because some people are going to play whoever the hell they want to play. But, I like to win so I often find myself waiting until the end of the draft in order to counter the other team's hero picks. This question isn't solely based on countering the other team's heroes though. I guess, there are a few main bullet points to my question:

1) what is an ideal composition for a team (i.e.: how many support, how many carry, etc.)?
2) is there anywhere that has a listing of heroes and which heroes are good counters to them?
3) can I get some clarification on the terms carry, support, etc?
4) is there a convenient way to remember which heroes are carry, support, etc? For example, I couldn't tell you which class Sniper falls into.

I started playing this game only about 2 months ago and I literally jumped right in. The learning curve was steep and I feel that my mechanics have gotten much better in the past 2-3 weeks, but I think a big part of this game is understanding the gameplay and the factors I mentioned above. I played a fair amount of SC2, and although I was terrible, I understood why I was terrible (I was just too lazy to constantly make SCV's, upgrade units from the various buildings, haha).

Any help here would be greatly appreciated!
Click to expand...

What you see in comp scene is mostly a deffensive / aggro tri lane (2 supports + 1 HC/SC), an offlane and a mid.

In a deffensive tri lane you probably want supports with great lane pressence like Ezalor, Treant or Visage and support the hardest carry (Magina, Gyro, etc.)

with an aggro tri lane (think SD, Rubick, Nyx, Lesh, Jak) you are looking for early kills that allows you to offset the level disadvantge. Sometimes you see a trilane with your semicarry, giving the hardcarry (naix, druid) free farm bot.

In a mid position you want a hero with great mobility (qop, puck) or capable of harrasing / totally dominate the lane (OD, Lanaya, Batrider)

But to be honest, it really depends on the skill level of the players. This is the case for the highest level (probably playing CM). It is the reason that I'm not playing Inhouse Leagues like Ixdl anymore, since you play the same exact picks and positions 90% of the time.

I actually have more fun in pubs with suboptimal but more enjoyable picks
 
Emerson

Emerson

May contain jokes =>
Love playing with a guy who thinks he's motherfucking Tom Landry or something. I swear he probably wrote a good 2000 word essay on Dota 2 skills throughout the match. Lecturing each player on what they should have bought, when to use items, etc. I was Treant and he kept saying shit like "Good job healing tower, keep it up!" Not that any of what he said was wrong, but you can't play if you are literally constantly typing. He finished the match as Lich six levels lower than me (Treant).
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
Ion Shelling an enemy Abaddon is hilarious. He lasts forever in a fight and doing so ends up hurting his team more than anything with a shell on. I got a kill yesterday because he just stuck around so long in the fight, a person actually died just from the shell damage.
 
A

abunai

Member
Heavy's Sandvich said:
People on US servers are much more talkative than the European ones.
Click to expand...

Pretty typical for most online games, it's nice when you get a team that communicates well. Although, I was playing on USE yesterday and got called a beaner, which is apparently a derogatory for Mexican people. I'm Scottish, so it was confusing.
 
DKehoe

DKehoe

Member
Had my first match against real people. My ratio was 2.12.1. Felt bad for feeding another teams player (who was the highest level in the game by the end) but kinda pleased I managed to get in a couple kills on some other players by the end.
 
H

h0pper

only Fernando's ripe melons are good enough for me
Calidor said:
What you see in comp scene is mostly a deffensive / aggro tri lane (2 supports + 1 HC/SC), an offlane and a mid.

In a deffensive tri lane you probably want supports with great lane pressence like Ezalor, Treant or Visage and support the hardest carry (Magina, Gyro, etc.)

with an aggro tri lane (think SD, Rubick, Nyx, Lesh, Jak) you are looking for early kills that allows you to offset the level disadvantge. Sometimes you see a trilane with your semicarry, giving the hardcarry (naix, druid) free farm bot.

In a mid position you want a hero with great mobility (qop, puck) or capable of harrasing / totally dominate the lane (OD, Lanaya, Batrider)

But to be honest, it really depends on the skill level of the players. This is the case for the highest level (probably playing CM). It is the reason that I'm not playing Inhouse Leagues like Ixdl anymore, since you play the same exact picks and positions 90% of the time.

I actually have more fun in pubs with suboptimal but more enjoyable picks
Click to expand...

Interesting. Another question I have is what is the deal with teammates being so harsh in this game? I usually play for the team and am not so worried about my kdr. I'd rather my win % be high if it means bailing teammates out at times. However, don't take that as I am a player who goes 5-20 every game. Typically, my kdr is pretty good. But, sometimes I try to play for the team and help out a teammate who is maybe in the process of getting ganked. Last night, I was Spirit Breaker and one of my teammates was getting 2v1'd so I charged down one of the enemies. My teammate and I both died but I was able to kill one of the enemy heroes. Well one guy on my team just starts berating me on chat immediately 'omg look at these 2 idiots' and just starts pinging the map like a madman. So I explain that I was trying to save our teammate and point out that I killed one of them in the process. Another guy joins in and all of a sudden I'm dealing with two statistical analysts breaking down my kdr and complaining I didn't activate my armlet, etc.
 
G

GordonHalfman

Member
h0pper said:
Interesting. Another question I have is what is the deal with teammates being so harsh in this game? I usually play for the team and am not so worried about my kdr. I'd rather my win % be high if it means bailing teammates out at times. However, don't take that as I am a player who goes 5-20 every game. Typically, my kdr is pretty good. But, sometimes I try to play for the team and help out a teammate who is maybe in the process of getting ganked. Last night, I was Spirit Breaker and one of my teammates was getting 2v1'd so I charged down one of the enemies. My teammate and I both died but I was able to kill one of the enemy heroes. Well one guy on my team just starts berating me on chat immediately 'omg look at these 2 idiots' and just starts pinging the map like a madman. So I explain that I was trying to save our teammate and point out that I killed one of them in the process. Another guy joins in and all of a sudden I'm dealing with two statistical analysts breaking down my kdr and complaining I didn't activate my armlet, etc.
Click to expand...

Pointing out mistakes in hindsight is easy so people love to do it. Just filter it out for the most part. It's the worst when people basically don't use the chat to do anything else. (In which case just mute them.) A lot of mistakes people make are due to lack of awareness or team mis-coordination which could be avoided if people tried communicating before everything goes pear shaped instead just having a go afterwards.

I can't express how much I hate the "ping-ping-ping-ping-ping I just died and you're still alive so it must be your fault somehow and I'm not even going to bother explaining how in with actual words and reasons and shit so here have more ping-ping-ping...". I'm trying to learn Storm Spirit just now and this seems to be especially common with him because people must think he has infinite mana or something.
 
D

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
traveler said:
Dazzle hasnt taken a single ult point at 9. Interesting.
Click to expand...

Dazzle is one the the heroes who getting his ult it really situational. Its not like Wind Runner where you can just write it off ether, there are times where having it early will really help.
 
K

Kabuki Quantum Lover

Member
Aesthet1c said:
I don't get this. Are you saying you didn't enjoy the turorials? Or it came off as too difficult?

You know the tutorials aren't exactly indicative of the actual game right?
Click to expand...

Curiosity killed this cat. I felt I wouldn't like this game from what I saw from the Giant Bomb videos, but tried it anyway (free is free). Turns out that I really don't like this kind of game.
 
H

h0pper

only Fernando's ripe melons are good enough for me
GordonHalfman said:
Pointing out mistakes in hindsight is easy so people love to do it. Just filter it out for the most part. It's the worst when people basically don't use the chat to do anything else. (In which case just mute them.) A lot of mistakes people make are due to lack of awareness or team mis-coordination which could be avoided if people tried communicating before everything goes pear shaped instead just having a go afterwards.

I can't express how much I hate the "ping-ping-ping-ping-ping I just died and you're still alive so it must be your fault somehow and I'm not even going to bother explaining how in with actual words and reasons and shit so here have more ping-ping-ping...". I'm trying to learn Storm Spirit just now and this seems to be especially common with him because people must think he has infinite mana or something.
Click to expand...

Yes! This! In my previous post I mentioned how I was crucified for dying when I tried to save a teammate. Well, if I see my teammate is outnumbered and he's getting focused and about to die, there are times where I won't run in because I know it's over. And like you said, it's immediately my fault that they died because I didn't come in to help. Damned if you do type scenario.
 
C

Calidor

Member
h0pper said:
Interesting. Another question I have is what is the deal with teammates being so harsh in this game? I usually play for the team and am not so worried about my kdr. I'd rather my win % be high if it means bailing teammates out at times. However, don't take that as I am a player who goes 5-20 every game. Typically, my kdr is pretty good. But, sometimes I try to play for the team and help out a teammate who is maybe in the process of getting ganked. Last night, I was Spirit Breaker and one of my teammates was getting 2v1'd so I charged down one of the enemies. My teammate and I both died but I was able to kill one of the enemy heroes. Well one guy on my team just starts berating me on chat immediately 'omg look at these 2 idiots' and just starts pinging the map like a madman. So I explain that I was trying to save our teammate and point out that I killed one of them in the process. Another guy joins in and all of a sudden I'm dealing with two statistical analysts breaking down my kdr and complaining I didn't activate my armlet, etc.
Click to expand...

Well it really depends who are you playing I guess? If you are the Luna who is supposed to carry the team, and you die trying to save an out-of-position Crystal maiden that was wandering off with no wards or detection whatsoever, then yeah you are probably going to get flamed.

You were playing SB which is supposed to initiate fights and let your team destroy and finish everything else, so looks like you did good! Just make sure that your team can follow up your initiation and they are not on the other side of the map,

IMO positioning and map awareness are probably the most valued skills you can have as a beginner/mid experienced player in Dota2. More than last hitting, micro, "fast fingers" or whatever.
 
D

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
Ha, the Naga died just to the Mana Break off of Pugna. Things don't look good for Quantic, those mass DCs screwed them over.

Edit: Deso Keeper of the light. Oh yeah.
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
The rationalization trap:

I commited an act of cruelty; I justify this by believing that the victim deserved it. If the victim deserved that cruelty, well maybe they deserve more and I am just the one to give it to them.
Click to expand...
 
RubxQub

RubxQub

φίλω ἐξεχέγλουτον καί ψευδολόγον οὖκ εἰπόν
Yesterday when we were playing, this one guy couldn't help himself from explaining in detail how everyone messed up a teamfight.

In a casual manner, I said "yo...I think the guy gets it". And he was like "I don't think he does, and I'm explaining it to him so he won't do it again!" in kind of a casual manner as well. Like he wasn't just being a dick to be a dick...he was being a dick but trying to help? But lacked empathy?

Dota 2 = Team Game = Team Work = Social Skills != Some Gamers

What's frustrating is when these people are actually good themselves, but their method of "trying to help" just causes the team to spiral out of control because people are spending more time typing than playing.
 
A

aeolist

Banned
RubxQub said:
Yesterday when we were playing, this one guy couldn't help himself from explaining in detail how everyone messed up a teamfight.

In a casual manner, I said "yo...I think the guy gets it". And he was like "I don't think he does, and I'm explaining it to him so he won't do it again!" in kind of a casual manner as well. Like he wasn't just being a dick to be a dick...he was being a dick but trying to help? But lacked empathy?

Dota 2 = Team Game = Team Work = Social Skills != Some Gamers

What's frustrating is when these people are actually good themselves, but their method of "trying to help" just causes the team to spiral out of control because people are spending more time typing than playing.
Click to expand...
i think one thing to keep in mind when trying to do this is to praise people for things they do well too

it can help to get constructive criticism but just hearing about what you're fucking up sucks
 
S

snack

Member
LPMeVy8.jpg
 
F

FlutterPuffs

Member
h0pper said:
Yes! This! In my previous post I mentioned how I was crucified for dying when I tried to save a teammate. Well, if I see my teammate is outnumbered and he's getting focused and about to die, there are times where I won't run in because I know it's over. And like you said, it's immediately my fault that they died because I didn't come in to help. Damned if you do type scenario.
Click to expand...

Honestly, if your teammate is a support and you have just a slim chance of saving him, don't bother. Only go in when it's a carry and you can at least sacrifice yourself or that you can actually save the person without incurring another unnecessary death.

It's not a damned if you do situation, but something that you learn as time goes by.
 
A

Artanisix

Member
Drkirby said:
You waste more net time overall, since it takes longer for other people to read it. Your post has wasted literally minutes of collective time that it didn't have to milk! Minutes!
Click to expand...

fwell it atrely helsapd me to tytpe fastert aso ic an get bakc to thesa cton
 
P

poppedcollar69

Member
I'm sad. Dota clearly doesn't know what to do with me, between the hour long queues, and the fact that despite solo queueing into very high games every so often, I also sometimes get grouped with people who have 2000 fewer hours played than me (not that I'm proud of that number).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

The Verge: We played Valve’s secret new shooter: Deadlock
Opinion News 2 3 4
199
11K
near replied
Deadlock |OT|
|OT| Community
49
3K
Herbspiceguy replied
Coming Soon to Game Pass: Ara: History Untold, Frostpunk 2, and Wargroove 2
News Hype
42
1K
Jesb replied
The Legend Of Heroes: Trails Through Daybreak | Review Thread
Analysis Review 2 3 4 5 6
267
14K
Sept Terrion Of Nothing replied
Eiyuden Chronicle: Hundred Heroes | Review Thread
Analysis Review 2 3
143
11K
BadBurger replied
Top Bottom