• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Dota 2 |OT| To Hell and Back and Back to Hell

Status
Not open for further replies.

patapuf

Member
If you want to test heroes based on niche skills such as pushing skills, or whatever skills one might think that Tide has (please name a few?), I'd be happy to do so. But as you state, they are niche. I loved tide for a very long time, but I realized in the end that unless you have opponents who play poorly, he falls apart as a real game changer when the opposing players counter / avoid him.

Pushing and Jungling are in no way niche skills. They are very important in many lineups.

Warlock has a big prescence in teamfights and he has decent push when he drops his ulti, there are other roles that need to filled too though and warlocks dependance on his ulti is also his biggest weakness imo.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Let's do Enigma.

Enigma can jungle. Warlock cannot.

Enigma can roam. Warlock cannot.

Enigma can push. Warlock can only push with ult and this requires a situation where he lands his ult successfully and has a clear field to do so.

Enigma has fast farm and is thus flexible with regards to item choices. Warlock's farm is abysmal and really only has two build paths. Aghanim + Refresher or Boots + wards.

Enigma can put pressure on any lane starting from 3. Warlock needs to wait until 6.

Enigma with Blink Dagger (and if you're assuming a hypothetical situation where Enigma doesn't have it I question whether you play this game at all) has significantly increased offensive and defensive potential even without ult. Warlock only has his ult. He is almost a non factor for the other 165 seconds.

Enigma allows you to deal with BKB carries. Warlock does not except in very specific cases where you can lock them in (with cogs) and they're forced to fight the Golem/s.

Enigma combos well with other AoE disables. Warlock does also but to a lesser extent.
 

Card Boy

Banned
Anyone got a ky.xy player card from Orange Neolution (Malaysian team)? I got a Funzii card to trade in return. I have almost completed my first set.

Send your Steam ID in PM.
 

sixghost

Member
Would Meepo work as part of a defensive trilane? It would solve his problem of getting harassed out of lanes, his net can be used as a follow-up stun to a more reliable stun or slow, poof is a pretty decent nuke early on, and the supports could stack jungle camps for when he's 6. Net even prevents heroes from going invis, which would be nice against someone like a solo BH. Is it just a case of other carries being better at it?
 
Would Meepo work as part of a defensive trilane? It would solve his problem of getting harassed out of lanes, his net can be used as a follow-up stun to a more reliable stun or slow, poof is a pretty decent nuke early on, and the supports could stack jungle camps for when he's 6. Net even prevents heroes from going invis, which would be nice against someone like a solo BH. Is it just a case of other carries being better at it?

The thing is Meepo requires crazy levelling to be effective. Much more so than farm... in a trilane where he is not necessarily the primary farm hero... or is not farming would not be using him effectively. Other heroes have similar capabilities like net and also do not have to get in melee range to use their nukes.

Then again... nothing is stopping anyone from trying it! Maybe it works really well with specific hero combinations.
 

sixghost

Member
The thing is Meepo requires crazy levelling to be effective. Much more so than farm... in a trilane where he is not necessarily the primary farm hero... or is not farming would not be using him effectively. Other heroes have similar capabilities like net and also do not have to get in melee range to use their nukes.

Then again... nothing is stopping anyone from trying it! Maybe it works really well with specific hero combinations.
Oops, I forgot to clarify that I meant Meepo as the farming hero in the trilane. Do the supports generally take much lane exp in a trilane? I haven't played in one too often.
 

linkent

Member
Just lost 2 games to medusa..

Both happened when team are equally farm but yet we lost in team fight by medusa ulti..

Seriously cant think of anyway to counter that op shit..
 

Krabboss

Member
In regards to the Warlock discussion, I would say he does not invalidate Tide or Enigma. I would say Magnus pretty much invalidates Enigma, except for the fact that Enigma is an incredible jungler and a decent pusher.

Tidehunter's biggest weakness is the fact he can't do anything through magic immunity, I think. Magnus, Clockwerk and Beastmaster can and they all see more play in competitive because of it. Warlock can do a bit through magic immunity, but he's more of a counter initiator than an initiator, I feel.

Just lost 2 games to medusa..

Both happened when team are equally farm but yet we lost in team fight by medusa ulti..

Seriously cant think of anyway to counter that op shit..

Did you try turning around?
 

Hylian7

Member
In regards to the Warlock discussion, I would say he does not invalidate Tide or Enigma. I would say Magnus pretty much invalidates Enigma, except for the fact that Enigma is an incredible jungler and a decent pusher.

Tidehunter's biggest weakness is the fact he can't do anything through magic immunity, I think. Magnus, Clockwerk and Beastmaster can and they all see more play in competitive because of it. Warlock can do a bit through magic immunity, but he's more of a counter initiator than an initiator, I feel.



Did you try turning around?

That's your counter to it. Also picking. Pick heroes with stuff that can be activated without facing her, like Tidehunter, stuff like that.
 

linkent

Member
Turning doesnt help.. The duration is too long.. Range too large..

by the time the duration ends, most support has died..

it become 2/3 vs 5 match..

it is like a sure blackhole..
 
Just lost 2 games to medusa..

Both happened when team are equally farm but yet we lost in team fight by medusa ulti..

Seriously cant think of anyway to counter that op shit..

Blink dagger? As soon as it starts up, disappear, or blink behind. Otherwise, just focus Medusa with all your team, or grab a blademail... I dunno, the problem is that you let her get farmed in the first place. Never had a problem with Medusa, as we've always shat on her early.
 
Turning doesnt help.. The duration is too long.. Range too large..

by the time the duration ends, most support has died..

it become 2/3 vs 5 match..

it is like a sure blackhole..

I am not really sure it is OP...if at all... do not stay so grouped up...and turn around.
 
Übermatik;71275451 said:
Blink dagger? As soon as it starts up, disappear, or blink behind. Otherwise, just focus Medusa with all your team, or grab a blademail... I dunno, the problem is that you let her get farmed in the first place. Never had a problem with Medusa, as we've always shat on her early.

I've rarely seen Medusa and only played her once or something (pre-6.78).

I may have to give the new version a whirl.
 

linkent

Member
Blink doesnt work as it only helps carry but not support,
yes we should stop her early, but in public games.. It is hard to coordinate ganks and beside there are other enemies, not only medusa..

in late game, team fight is inevitable, as everyone will stick together..
sure we can lure the ulti.. But here, the medusa can just walk in to t3 tower and ulti..
now everyone will turn their backs, but medusa will kill the supports..
 
I've rarely seen Medusa and only played her once or something (pre-6.78).

I may have to give the new version a whirl.

I don't rate her, but I think she's an interesting carry, especially if you ancient farm...

Blink doesnt work as it only helps carry but not support,
yes we should stop her early, but in public games.. It is hard to coordinate ganks and beside there are other enemies, not only medusa..

in late game, team fight is inevitable, as everyone will stick together..
sure we can lure the ulti.. But here, the medusa can just walk in to t3 tower and ulti..
now everyone will turn their backs, but medusa will kill the supports..

Seriously, just turn your backs. Then she's wasted an ult, as it does nothing to you. Get your supports to get a Ghost Sceptre if you're worried about them. After all, stone heroes are 100% magic immune. Or catch her in a black hole or something before she can do it. I don't now, it seems like you're looking for a solution to something that isn't too much of a problem.
 

Vaporak

Member
Would Meepo work as part of a defensive trilane? It would solve his problem of getting harassed out of lanes, his net can be used as a follow-up stun to a more reliable stun or slow, poof is a pretty decent nuke early on, and the supports could stack jungle camps for when he's 6. Net even prevents heroes from going invis, which would be nice against someone like a solo BH. Is it just a case of other carries being better at it?

Meepo as your primary farmer in a defensive tri lane is good for him in that it helps out his biggest weakness early on when he's so weak. But I just don't think it's worth it. A well made offensive tri lane could probably still bully you around in your lane since meepo is so weak early on.
 

linkent

Member
Übermatik;71277106 said:
I don't rate her, but I think she's an interesting carry, especially if you ancient farm...



Seriously, just turn your backs. Then she's wasted an ult, as it does nothing to you. Get your supports to get a Ghost Sceptre if you're worried about them. After all, stone heroes are 100% magic immune. Or catch her in a black hole or something before she can do it. I don't now, it seems like you're looking for a solution to something that isn't too much of a problem.

well i guess there is no counter then..
how can an aoe disable everyone and last 6s not a problem..
remember even if u ghost scepter, the medusa still has her teammate..
 

Krabboss

Member
Turning doesnt help.. The duration is too long.. Range too large..

by the time the duration ends, most support has died..

it become 2/3 vs 5 match..

it is like a sure blackhole..

Yeah, I was just goofin. Her new ult is strong for sure. I got into an argument the other day because I think her ult is more powerful at level 6 than Void's chrono. My friend argued Medusa's ult is only useful in defensive situations but at level 6 I've rarely found an aggressive chrono to be of much use without something big (like Chain Frost of Death Ward) to back it up.

She's become a lot harder to gank now. While she's alone it's possible, but you still have to spend about 3 seconds with your thumb up your butt while she's givin' you the look. With friends, you should not even try attacking her until she's the last one alive. Everything else about her is still ass until suuuuper late into the game, though. Well, snake's okay.
 

kurahador

Member
Played a game where 3 of my teammates speaking pinoy. When asked to speak english, they said "We'll speak eng later...lolololol" and proceed not to said anything in eng ever again.

Abaddon who's a quiet one play super aggressive instead of farming, Skeleton King bought helm, PA farming alone for at least 10 minutes only managed to have boots, midas & helm at 25 minutes, Rubick is pretty decent but he keep supporting PA who I assume is his friend and rarely bought support items.

Fuck this game.
 

Anteo

Member
Wait, what? What bizarro dimension have I walked into?

Hahahaha I was thinking the same. The last time I played medusa, the enemy team just walked away for a while after I activated my ult. That ult feel so useless without some lockdown, and even then it only last 2 seconds after they turn to stone
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Yeah, Medusa ult isn't usually a problem because her impact before like 50 minutes is just about nil. The enemy team is essentially fighting with four players anyway.
 
I still haven't seen medusa carry a game ever. Although she still isn't picked much. I have no evidence for this but I wonder if people are building her wrong by stacking tank items. I've seen 50 minute games where medusa gets linkens manta skadi and the enemy lifestealer still destroys her. (Or at least destroys the team while she doesn't seem to do much.) Has anyone tried building her like you would Gyro? By which I mean just BKB, lifesteal and damage? You could even go MoM and pop it during her ulti.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
I still haven't seen medusa carry a game ever. Although she still isn't picked much. I have no evidence for this but I wonder if people are building her wrong by stacking tank items. I've seen 50 minute games where medusa gets linkens manta skadi and the enemy lifestealer still destroys her. (Or at least destroys the team while she doesn't seem to do much.) Has anyone tried building her like you would Gyro? By which I mean just BKB, lifesteal and damage? You could even go MoM and pop it during her ulti.

I've seen it happen twice, both fortunately on my team, one actually only last week. It was kind of cool seeing the entire enemy team melt in a few attacks from Split Arrows, but the investment to get there is just insane.
 

shira

Member
What is the best site for buildouts and item buys? So far i really like using the warlock. Not sure if thats a noob character to use but I dig him so far.
Yes

I'm in Seoul right now. how do I play dota here? I cannot!

Should i go to the next Nexon event thingys and wreck these kids?? huhuhu.
You need a beta key and a Korean citizen ID. No 외국인 smurfs allowed

Dreamhack Valencia dota stage, unconfirmed if Riot gets it too lol
http://t.co/NBatHji1B2
BPcw9X7CIAAnu7P.jpg:large
Wiener Dog is up
637x358.resizedimage

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=161201679
http://youtu.be/pPoSn8QtJDs
Waldi the Faithful by Airborn_Studios, jochen & neox
Death of esports
 

Demoli

Member
You need a fully coordinated team for a medusa to work. The supports must be constantly stacking ancients and hard camps for you to clear with mystic snake/split shot.

Also, linkens is a truly terrible item. Rushing a Manta on Medusa is the absolute best. Manta into a Skadi gives you all the stats you need to boost your Mana and health pool in the mid game due to the 3(!!) ultimate orbs you use. After that, I usually go for Butterfly into a Satanic and then a Rapier. Evasion+Lifesteal+Ridiculous tank potential from mana shield and your high health will make you feel truly immortal, and unless the other team has been steamrolling yours, you will be, thats why Rapier is the ebst choce for a damage item, think flak cannon but permanent.

Thing is, your team must hold on to your base for at least 35 mins for medusa to start feeling scary, and even then you shouldn't join a fight unless it's truly necessary. She's like AM but without the split push, you play a farming game where you try and secure the late game with your ridiculous farming potential. She can also push very well due to her manta illusions having split shot.

Edit: also worth noting, if you are not gonna build a Rapier, you must replace one of your items for a damage item. Medusa has very abd Stat gain, particulary Agility for a carry (2.5), which means you don't scale with levels, but with a truckload of items. Butterfly Manta MKB and Daedalus should be enough if you're going the damage route, but at least get eithera Skadi or a Satanic, preferably a Satanic since it gives you an extra life.
 

Anteo

Member
What are the rest of your team doing when the enemy team is incapable of actually fighting you because they have to turn away?

Stun and fall back! Or just face away from medu while killing the suports, its all about positioning really (so is for medusa). And the 2 sec stone is not long enough unless you have rapier.
 
The last time I played Medusa I think my team ended up wasting their nukes on petrified enemies. I was actually thinking of a lineup that would work well with her ult. Beastmaster's roar could stun stun them to set it up and his axes do physical damage, which would be amplified. Witch doctor's ult would be good too. And the pure AOE damage from TImber might work well.
 

RubxQub

φίλω ἐξεχέγλουτον καί ψευδολόγον οὖκ εἰπόν
Played a game where 3 of my teammates speaking pinoy. When asked to speak english, they said "We'll speak eng later...lolololol" and proceed not to said anything in eng ever again.

Abaddon who's a quiet one play super aggressive instead of farming, Skeleton King bought helm, PA farming alone for at least 10 minutes only managed to have boots, midas & helm at 25 minutes, Rubick is pretty decent but he keep supporting PA who I assume is his friend and rarely bought support items.

Fuck this game.

Had an odd one yesterday with these folks as well, unfortunately. They were from Peru and we had to continuously pause the game to allow them to disconnect/reconnect from lag issues. The other team was insanely patient considering we did this no less than 4 times over the course of the hour long game. And they hardly spoke english. But knew how to bitch in English which was convenient...

This god damned Nature's Prophet had decided that he was never going to teamfight, and was only going to use our teamfights as a distraction to try and rax the other team. We needed his DPS in the teamfights, otherwise we'd all just be jumping to our deaths. Luckily I was KotL and was able to force him down with us twice, and we were able to push top rax, and he was able to snipe bottom rax during a different teamfight.

We're up 2 rax to 1, we're looking good...and then this dude buy's back, TPs straight to their mid T3 tower and eats it... now we have pretty much the whole team down for over a minute and the enemy just steamrolls the base. We had a few guys up, but their DPS was too high and they go throne before we could engage them in any meaningful way.

We got a rapier off of their Medusa, and lost it during a teamfight...again because these guys were doing weird shit.

The three other teammates were all from Peru and just kept doing the most insane shit, and ultimately we lost because they wouldn't coordinate.

INSANELY frustrating.

It isn't that I hate Peruvian people now or something...but if you can't hold a decent ping on the USE servers, why are they playing on them?! Very very annoying.
 
You need a fully coordinated team for a medusa to work. The supports must be constantly stacking ancients and hard camps for you to clear with mystic snake/split shot.

Also, linkens is a truly terrible item. Rushing a Manta on Medusa is the absolute best. Manta into a Skadi gives you all the stats you need to boost your Mana and health pool in the mid game due to the 3(!!) ultimate orbs you use. After that, I usually go for Butterfly into a Satanic and then a Rapier. Evasion+Lifesteal+Ridiculous tank potential from mana shield and your high health will make you feel truly immortal, and unless the other team has been steamrolling yours, you will be, thats why Rapier is the ebst choce for a damage item, think flak cannon but permanent.

Thing is, your team must hold on to your base for at least 35 mins for medusa to start feeling scary, and even then you shouldn't join a fight unless it's truly necessary. She's like AM but without the split push, you play a farming game where you try and secure the late game with your ridiculous farming potential. She can also push very well due to her manta illusions having split shot.

Edit: also worth noting, if you are not gonna build a Rapier, you must replace one of your items for a damage item. Medusa has very abd Stat gain, particulary Agility for a carry (2.5), which means you don't scale with levels, but with a truckload of items. Butterfly Manta MKB and Daedalus should be enough if you're going the damage route, but at least get eithera Skadi or a Satanic, preferably a Satanic since it gives you an extra life.

Daedalus is a poor choice on Medusa as it doesn't synergize with her split shot as far as I'm aware. You're better off with Butterfly and Rapier.
 

Randdalf

Member
It's adorable and fits the style just fine. Couriers are always fairly loose on their seriousness.

A dog chasing a sausage fits the style? It's just stupid. I realise that some couriers have been faintly ridiculous, but this just opens things up for a whole new level of inanity. Judging couriers on whether they are "cute" or not is just wrong: they're not pets!
 
Okay, I started playing yesterday. 11 hours straight. My back hurts and today is the time to read some guides since Im a nOOb. Tried to play some heroes and dont think I was toooo bad.

First I tried Luna, I liked her, but couldnt stay alive late-game since she only has 2 active skills and only the ultimate does significant amount of damage, but its on a 140 seconds cooldown!

Tried also Windrunner and liked her, has some really cool spells and I love archers! Is she good?

Got destroyed in some matches by a flying angel (Skywrath Angel I believe) and Spirit Breaker.... they kill me in like 1 second -_-

Anyway, fun game and my first time playing a MOBA :)
 

RubxQub

φίλω ἐξεχέγλουτον καί ψευδολόγον οὖκ εἰπόν
A dog chasing a sausage fits the style? It's just stupid. I realise that some couriers have been faintly ridiculous, but this just opens things up for a whole new level of inanity. Judging couriers on whether they are "cute" or not is just wrong: they're not pets!

What is it about the original courier that made you think that couriers were not always intended to be crazy? The stock courier is a donkey that turns into a flying donkey!

Couriers being crazy is just one of the charms in this game.
 

Nirvana

Member
A dog chasing a sausage fits the style? It's just stupid. I realise that some couriers have been faintly ridiculous, but this just opens things up for a whole new level of inanity. Judging couriers on whether they are "cute" or not is just wrong: they're not pets!

Not sure why everyone is up in arms about this, it's just a courier and for the most part, they're all ridiculous. I don't really see how this one is much worse to be honest.
 
A dog chasing a sausage fits the style? It's just stupid. I realise that some couriers have been faintly ridiculous, but this just opens things up for a whole new level of inanity. Judging couriers on whether they are "cute" or not is just wrong: they're not pets!

Yeah, totally, I mean, a pet is an animal trained to fetch stuff, when the courier is... Arf, that does not work :p

Stupid game yesterday with Lina top lane, some super noobish adversaries, I had 6 kills in 7 minutes... This wave of new players (sometimes) works for me :)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom