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Dota 2 |OT12| A Safe Place For Your Sociopathic Behaviors.

H

Hylian7

Member
NormalFish said:
I'd argue that if you get a very early midas on a hero that scales really well with gold and has an effective way to kill big creeps, midasing the little creep isn't such a bad thing. Midas seems to have fallen out of favour on that sort of hero, however, so it's a bit of a moot point.
Click to expand...

You don't buy Midas for money, you buy it for XP.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
NormalFish said:
On the majority of heroes, yeah. But if I get 3 kills before 4 minutes on a hard carry, you bet your ass I'm building a midas and you bet your ass it's not for the xp.
Click to expand...

If it's not for the XP then it's a waste of money, as you could have your real item up that much faster. You don't start to turn a profit off it until something like ~30 minutes into the game.
 
N

NormalFish

Banned
Hylian7 said:
If it's not for the XP then it's a waste of money, as you could have your real item up that much faster. You don't start to turn a profit off it until something like ~30 minutes into the game.
Click to expand...

This greatly depends on the hero and the course of the game. I admit that this meta isn't terribly favourable for that sort of greedy midas, but you're acting like it's universally bad and that's just not the case. I don't understand where the 30 minutes number comes from, either, given that it takes about 18-19 minutes of efficient midas usage for it to pay for itself. Unless you get it really late I just don't see how 30 minutes makes sense.

All this not even taking in to consideration the fact that you seem to be functioning under the premise that midas is useless for anything but the active, which isn't true. Many heroes benefit from attack speed in a big way such as slark, clinkz, or naix, which are the hard carries whom I like building midas on most. Slark benefits greatly from the higher xp/min but clinkz and naix don't really give a shit for xp past like level 9 or so.

preemptive... Yeah, clinkz can be played in a more semi carry role and go for early aggression, but that's not what I tend to play. Attack speed is strong because you get quite a bit more harass with your orb any time there's an enemy hero around.
 
C

Chris R

Member
OK

so mid alch is actually kinda fun. Even more so when the enemy never tries to gank ya.

I just need to not suck with my item build for a change, should hit 1kgpm easy.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
NormalFish said:
This greatly depends on the hero and the course of the game. I admit that this meta isn't terribly favourable for that sort of greedy midas, but you're acting like it's universally bad and that's just not the case. I don't understand where the 30 minutes number comes from, either, given that it takes about 18-19 minutes of efficient midas usage for it to pay for itself. Unless you get it really late I just don't see how 30 minutes makes sense.

All this not even taking in to consideration the fact that you seem to be functioning under the premise that midas is useless for anything but the active, which isn't true. Many heroes benefit from attack speed in a big way such as slark, clinkz, or naix, which are the hard carries whom I like building midas on most. Slark benefits greatly from the higher xp/min but clinkz and naix don't really give a shit for xp past like level 9 or so.

preemptive... Yeah, clinkz can be played in a more semi carry role and go for early aggression, but that's not what I tend to play. Attack speed is strong because you get quite a bit more harass with your orb any time there's an enemy hero around.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the 30 minutes number was wrong, it is something like 18-19 minutes, I wasn't sure.

You don't buy Midas for attack speed, if you're saying "I'm not buying it for the active" then why even buy it? You could buy a billion other items instead.

Midas is bought for XP first and foremost, then a long way down comes the gold, and then the attack speed is at the very bottom.
 
N

NormalFish

Banned
Hylian7 said:
Yeah, the 30 minutes number was wrong, it is something like 18-19 minutes, I wasn't sure.

You don't buy Midas for attack speed, if you're saying "I'm not buying it for the active" then why even buy it? You could buy a billion other items instead.

Midas is bought for XP first and foremost, then a long way down comes the gold, and then the attack speed is at the very bottom.
Click to expand...

Literally never said "I'm not buying it for the active" so I'm not sure why that's what you got from my post.

The concept I am trying to impart upon you is that while midas is absolutely built for XP first and foremost in the vast majority of cases, there are cases in which the gold in conjunction with attack speed warrants picking up a midas despite the XP not being as large a benefit. If you cannot understand this, I really don't know why I'm bothering.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
NormalFish said:
Literally never said "I'm not buying it for the active" so I'm not sure why that's what you got from my post.
Click to expand...

All this not even taking in to consideration the fact that you seem to be functioning under the premise that midas is useless for anything but the active, which isn't true.
Click to expand...

You said it right here.

The concept I am trying to impart upon you is that while midas is absolutely built for XP first and foremost in the vast majority of cases, there are cases in which the gold in conjunction with attack speed warrants picking up a midas despite the XP not being as large a benefit. If you cannot understand this, I really don't know why I'm bothering.
Click to expand...

What I have been trying to say is that buying it for the gold and attack speed is also a waste and not efficient. On any hero that you think you need Midas for the gold and attack speed, you could buy almost any other farming item that would serve you some kind of more significant use, and help you farm your attack speed item.

Faceless Void, if you want Midas for the levels, go for it, but if you want it just for farm and attack speed, you are getting the wrong item. You need Mask of Madness instead.
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Phoenix.
AA.
CM.
WL.

This "Midas for the XP" thing is new to me, so maybe I'm just behind the times, but I only go Midas for the long game.
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
God, no. I'm buying it to keep up my farm while still doing the supporting things.

I couldn't give a shit about my EXP but Aghs/Shivas doesn't farm itself.

Warlock.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
Haly said:
God, no. I'm buying it to keep up my farm while still doing the supporting things.

I couldn't give a shit about my EXP but Aghs/Shivas doesn't farm itself.

Warlock.
Click to expand...

That's a weird way to abbreviate Warlock.

You should be caring about your XP on all of those heroes, as especially on those kinds of heroes, levels mean everything. They determine how effective you are in fights.

On AA having level 2 Ice Blast can be a pretty big deal. Given that his other spells have a pretty long cast range, those become more useful with levels as well.
 
N

NormalFish

Banned
Hylian7 said:
You said it right here.
Click to expand...

No, I said that you seem to believe that the active is the only thing midas offers, which obviously isn't true.
Haly said:
Phoenix.
AA.
CM.
WL.

This "Midas for the XP" thing is new to me, so maybe I'm just behind the times, but I only go Midas for the long game.
Click to expand...

This is how I typically use it, but on cores in this meta it's for sure more about XP. Thought honestly games seem to be a bit different on .85 than .84 so maybe this is less true now. I haven't really played the patch much.
Hylian7 said:
And I don't believe that, I never said it. What I did say was that if you are buying it because of anything other than the active, you are buying the wrong item.
Click to expand...
I don't even know what to say.
 
C

Captain Fish

Member
Rerolled my heroes and got broodmother. Guess I'd better find some replays or something cause I've never tried her.


Shout outs to the pub skywrath mage on the enemy team who fed me a courier for a challenge at the end of a match because I asked nicely.
 
Heavy's Sandvich

Heavy's Sandvich

Member
Game isn't dead when we're arguing about Midas.

I buy it so I can have the biggest gpm at the stats screen.and to Midas creeps my carry is trying to last hit.
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
I like to think that by out lasthitting my carries I'm pushing them to be the best last hitter they could possibly be.
 
D

DrPizza

Banned
For heroes like AA and CM you're buying the Midas so you have a source of reliable gold so that you can get your items without having to devote any real time to farming, and without being wiped out every time you get blown up. Crystal Maiden's level scaling is terrible, because she's so int starved she still can't cast all her fucking spells. She needs gold to make up that deficit. AA has no good way of farming (ice vortex cliff jungling is the opposite of good), but has a hugely desirable aghs upgrade.
 
I

Imp the Dimp

Member
Always looking forward to Draskyl's subdays where his team usually goes a combined 3-61 with him going godlike every other game and yet losing 90% of all the games.
 
D

Dreams-Visions

Member
Pudge, Venge and Lich crowding my safe lane farmer, but I buy 4 wards, sprinkle our jungle with vision and be like

uWKXfeF.jpg


gl with that.
 
I

Imp the Dimp

Member
Queued with some 1k scrub from my local chat, picked Weaver and went Midas -> Linken's -> Rapier und immediately scored a rampage. Rapier rush on Weaver is hilarious.
 
1

1.09

Low Tier
???

How does midasing for exp stop becoming a thing at lvl 16 ROFL

You still midas the big creep because levels matter.

One lvl past 16 = like ~12-13 more stats honestly

I midas big creep all day til 25.

Levels matter a lot in dota even past 16
 
N

NBtoaster

Member
I feel like Bane is a pretty good hero right now. Your not as crippled by mana costs any more. You can achieve a lot just by yourself with a smoke.
 
A

Auteezy

Banned
1.09 said:
???

How does midasing for exp stop becoming a thing at lvl 16 ROFL

You still midas the big creep because levels matter.

One lvl past 16 = like ~12-13 more stats honestly

I midas big creep all day til 25.

Levels matter a lot in dota even past 16
Click to expand...

I gotta disagree with you on this one champ, especially when playing from behind.

I don't even think midas is that good of an item other than on a hero like AA where you need it because after the laning phase you aren't really going to be in xp range of most mid-game fights. Most farmers I'd rather have some other item of similar gold that actually builds into something useful such as a yasha or HoD for stacking. Most popular carries have flash farming abilities anyways and ones that don't you typically look to end quickly with, thus that 2k gold spent on a midas could be a lot better used into early/mid game stat efficiency items.

I'm sure most of my thoughts fall on deaf ears but I know somewhere out there some noob is nodding his head in agreement, happy to know that some other andom player shares his view.
 
K

kionedrik

Member
Sorry for going extremely off-topic but I've seen some people discuss 3DS games here so I thought I'd ask. The new 3ds runs games that only have the original 3ds label right?


On topic: The change to helix proc (on hit rather than on attack) really killed Axe... He's easily bottom 10 now.
 
P

pompidu

Member
Too make up the gold from just buying midas, you would need to use midas 10.7 times to make up the 2050 gold. Midas has a 100 sec cooldown. 10.7*100 gives you 1070 seconds to recoup that gold, which comes to about 17.8 mins to get the cost of midas back from midas.

maths already been done

Edit: quoted wrong person, damn mobile
 
R

Red UFO

Member
pompidu said:
Too make up the gold from just buying midas, you would need to use midas 10.7 times to make up the 2050 gold. Midas has a 100 sec cooldown. 10.7*100 gives you 1070 seconds to recoup that gold, which comes to about 17.8 mins to get the cost of midas back from midas.

maths already been done
Edit: quoted wrong person, damn mobile
Click to expand...
Such a best case scenario analysis is almost useless.
 
M

M.D

Member
balanced groups are balanced

group A

Evil Geniuses
(monkey) Business
LGD Gaming
Virtus.pro

group B

CDEC
Cloud9
Team Secret
MVP Phoenix

thx MLG
 
C

Captain Fish

Member
>_>

It's 11 Midas uses. Midas comes off cooldown, so it's 10 cooldown periods, which is exactly 16 minutes and 40 seconds + delivery time + time spent with it off cooldown not in use.

Although that also ignores the time you don't spend killing the large creep which does accelerate your farm a little bit more.
 
C

Carlius

Banned
warlock midas too strong. team was like wtf man, report, warlock thinks hes carry.
5 min midas and xp boost and i won the game with a sven that could not kill ONE. that ult with upheaval is just too strong.
 
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