rakkadakka
Member
Out of context 2k mmr chat
American Indians? Are there enough of them left to get bothered by?
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- Thread starter Dreams-Visions
- Start date
American Indians? Are there enough of them left to get bothered by?
Trickster
Member
Another game where shadow fiend stomps the midgame but can't crack high ground though.
The way I see it, no matter how big of a lead you get on SF, you can't win unless you get a clean teamfight when it comes time to push high ground.
VP should have been much more aggresive after getting their huge lead. At the point in the game where they had the top 3 networth while EG still had 2 towers standing. VP where playing so goddamn passively. Shit was painful to watch.
I mean, you have huge lead, and 2 of the best initate heroes in the game, and instead of playing aggresive, you decide to run around a bit and farm some of the other sides jungle and ancients?...And the worst part of that shit was that while they were doing that, EG actually managed to reduce VP's networth lead
Dreams-Visions
Member
Lots of things in Dota2 I'm sick of these days. But sure, we can start with SF.
it might be a bit hyperbole but there are so many more interesting mids & carries
PFFFFFFFT
Have you ever landed a perfect double or triple raze? Shit is
How is a hero that has the most efficient AoE farming ability and early game killing tool boring? Landing razes is so damn satisfying, especially when you get a double or triple raze on a target you can't even see. Plus blowing someone up with your ult? What's not to like about this?
NotoriousPUG
Member
PFFFFFFFT
Have you ever landed a perfect double or triple raze? Shit is
How is a hero that has the most efficient AoE farming ability and early game killing tool boring? Landing razes is so damn satisfying, especially when you get a double or triple raze on a target you can't even see. Plus blowing someone up with your ult? What's not to like about this?
He's just incredibly boring to watch. I feel the same way about QOP too.
I disagree, seeing a good SF is so fascinating, timing your last hits, or hitting creeps down to get efficient razes with the enemy hero in them. I love it.
misses bull
Banned
90% of the hero pool is interesting/fun to me that's why I love dota so much.
However, every hero, EVERY hero becomes boring/complained about when they are in the competitive limelight for awhile. Dota 2 has been out for what, over 5 years now? So we've probably had a good 50-60% of the hero pool be in the top10 pick stage at one point or another, and they've all been called boring/repetitive/whatever have you. Nobody likes the top 10. Hell, even invoker gets whined about when he's decently popular, "boring just sunstrike/forge spirits," "just tornado/EMP residentsleeper i wish sniper was popular." Sniper 6.83.... "so boring and lame tower defense meta residentsleeper gimme some teamfight heroes." Lesh/lina/BS fight fight fight meta... "zomg so boring just spam spells all day AOE BALLS." You get the point. Popular = "boring" in a sense, can't be avoided.
Three months from now SF is in the trash can and people are back to clamoring for the "traditional mid" renaissance. The problem for icefrog is always, do you take these arguably balanced heroes (QoP/SF) and nuke them because they are popular? He's done that to the frustrating pubstompers of old like BS/SB, but I think he's holding back on SF/QoP because these two are pretty much THE traditional mids of dota1. People complained for years that they sucked/fell out favor in dota 2 and it took a long time to get them back in their midlane; so he's being very careful not to completely take that away.
However, every hero, EVERY hero becomes boring/complained about when they are in the competitive limelight for awhile. Dota 2 has been out for what, over 5 years now? So we've probably had a good 50-60% of the hero pool be in the top10 pick stage at one point or another, and they've all been called boring/repetitive/whatever have you. Nobody likes the top 10. Hell, even invoker gets whined about when he's decently popular, "boring just sunstrike/forge spirits," "just tornado/EMP residentsleeper i wish sniper was popular." Sniper 6.83.... "so boring and lame tower defense meta residentsleeper gimme some teamfight heroes." Lesh/lina/BS fight fight fight meta... "zomg so boring just spam spells all day AOE BALLS." You get the point. Popular = "boring" in a sense, can't be avoided.
Three months from now SF is in the trash can and people are back to clamoring for the "traditional mid" renaissance. The problem for icefrog is always, do you take these arguably balanced heroes (QoP/SF) and nuke them because they are popular? He's done that to the frustrating pubstompers of old like BS/SB, but I think he's holding back on SF/QoP because these two are pretty much THE traditional mids of dota1. People complained for years that they sucked/fell out favor in dota 2 and it took a long time to get them back in their midlane; so he's being very careful not to completely take that away.
NormalFish
Banned
SF has always been boring. small AoE nuke, Big AoE nuke with -damage debuff, gains more damage from last hits. Like, even sven is more interesting.
lol
meepo has always been boring/uninteresting. clones (hahalol illusions this hasn't been done b4 amirite), standard aoe nuke, token disable. even WK is more interesting
misses bull
Banned
I wouldn't go that far. I liked seeing him like a year ago but now I don't want to see him for 2 whole patches
Captain Fish
Member
I'm fine with SF and QoP being common. I'm really enjoying seeing Windranger mid. The only mid I really disliked seeing a lot was Obsidian/Outworld Devourer/Destroyer because the constant banish mechanic was boring/trivial (similar to how lightning was a piece of cake to harass with on Lesh).
ok this is gonna be a tl;dr
List of reasons why SF is boring/annoying to me personally
Edge lord design, like if shadow the hedgehog designed an OC demon
Even edgier lore: the demon all others fear (other than TB) that devours & collects souls
Every ability is damage. Dishes out magic + physical damage like no tomorrow, also making him recover a bit too easily.
Ability to recover farm, push easily, dominate lane, has made him old reliable and draft filler. Nobody bothers to ban him because hes not horribly OP.
Shadowblade ults get boring fast.
Babby's first mid. Ability which encourages last hits & denies + a skill shot to learn. Thus in scrub pub games with shadow fiend you get a stereotypical obnoxious mid player often playing him who thinks they are the shit cause they can hit razes and deny.
That fucking "Outplayed" line
Shadowfiend not going up high ground is something you suffer in pubs & and professional games.
Has been super relevant in the meta for over a year. Thats enough to get sick of any hero.
Things I like about SF
The little ground drag thing he does, especially with the deso arms which leave the claw marks
His taunt is great, especially when it baffles casters
His lines in demonic which interact with other demons, they are nice lore & fluff.
The fact he fucked up shadow demons evil plans by pretty much having a bad lunch.
The nice detail that his ult reduces enemy damage, very nice touch on a hero which every aspect is capslock "I DO THE DAMAGE"
The arcana is ok.
List of reasons why SF is boring/annoying to me personally
Edge lord design, like if shadow the hedgehog designed an OC demon
Even edgier lore: the demon all others fear (other than TB) that devours & collects souls
Every ability is damage. Dishes out magic + physical damage like no tomorrow, also making him recover a bit too easily.
Ability to recover farm, push easily, dominate lane, has made him old reliable and draft filler. Nobody bothers to ban him because hes not horribly OP.
Shadowblade ults get boring fast.
Babby's first mid. Ability which encourages last hits & denies + a skill shot to learn. Thus in scrub pub games with shadow fiend you get a stereotypical obnoxious mid player often playing him who thinks they are the shit cause they can hit razes and deny.
That fucking "Outplayed" line
Shadowfiend not going up high ground is something you suffer in pubs & and professional games.
Has been super relevant in the meta for over a year. Thats enough to get sick of any hero.
Things I like about SF
The little ground drag thing he does, especially with the deso arms which leave the claw marks
His taunt is great, especially when it baffles casters
His lines in demonic which interact with other demons, they are nice lore & fluff.
The fact he fucked up shadow demons evil plans by pretty much having a bad lunch.
The nice detail that his ult reduces enemy damage, very nice touch on a hero which every aspect is capslock "I DO THE DAMAGE"
The arcana is ok.
The OD/naga/DK mid meta was the most boring to me imo. And during that whole 4-6 month period the overwhelming minority of reddit and internet forums was like, "where mah traditional mid renaissance? I remember the good ol days of QoP, SF, invoker, puck; not this GREED mid meta."
The diversity in mid these days is as big as it's probably ever going to get--sf, qop, wr, alch, ta, viper, razor, ember, dk, veno, puck, lesh/lina (arguably gone now)... we've seen all these guys do decently well in the middle lane despite 2-3 being more common. Someone's going to be king of the mid, and I'm fine with that being SF/QoP. That's what they were originally designed to do. If they aren't good mid heroes, then they aren't heroes. Invoker just needs a few more buffs to get in there
.
The diversity in mid these days is as big as it's probably ever going to get--sf, qop, wr, alch, ta, viper, razor, ember, dk, veno, puck, lesh/lina (arguably gone now)... we've seen all these guys do decently well in the middle lane despite 2-3 being more common. Someone's going to be king of the mid, and I'm fine with that being SF/QoP. That's what they were originally designed to do. If they aren't good mid heroes, then they aren't heroes. Invoker just needs a few more buffs to get in there
.NormalFish
Banned
but clones are inherently interesting? What part of SF's kit is so unique? Razes? They're small area nukes with a set range. It might be interesting if you're playing the hero, but for anyone else in the game, or for a spectator, it's not a meaningful differences. Perhaps it's that he gains damage for last hitting? Well it can make for some interesting lane dynamics, but it's still just damage.
Do you seriously think SF is an interesting hero design?
Yeah I think raze is one of the most fun abilities in the game, and one of the more unique ones too. Not to mention there is nothing like the soul mechanic and the way it feeds into his other abilities (most notably the ulti) is awesome. His entire toolkit meshes well, and he's just a very fun hero to play. To watch is a different story, but yeah, I generally enjoy seeing big clutch razes and the occasional big SF ulti.
edit: Also, I'm not seriously claiming meepo is boring and uninteresting, it was mostly sarcastic. The way you dismissed SF can be done with literally any hero in the game. You can make any ability/hero in this game sound boring and unexciting. I guess the same goes for fun/interesting though. Ultimately, it all comes down to individual opinion/preference I guess and that's why we get to choose between 100+ heroes
.Yes.
Captain Fish
Member
The OD/naga/DK mid meta was the most boring to me imo. And during that whole 4-6 month period the overwhelming minority of reddit and internet forums was like, "where mah traditional mid renaissance? I remember the good ol days of QoP, SF, invoker, puck; not this GREED mid meta."
The diversity in mid these days is as big as it's probably ever going to get--sf, qop, wr, alch, ta, viper, razor, ember, dk, veno, puck, lesh/lina (arguably gone now)... we've seen all these guys do decently well in the middle lane despite 2-3 being more common. Someone's going to be king of the mid, and I'm fine with that being SF/QoP. That's what they were originally designed to do. If they aren't good mid heroes, then they aren't heroes. Invoker just needs a few more buffs to get in there
I hate that era mostly because the courier used to be fast but as a result of nerfing bottle crowing and DK it's slow as fuck so you have to constantly pay attention to where it is or you end up waiting an eternity for it.
Sigismundo
Member
What MMR did you say you were again? That's not that common (even as someone that likes Shadow Blade SF), surely.
If you want to put it that way, you can compartmentalize every hero that way.
Meepo is like Phantom Lancer because they are so similar to illusions.
Gyrocopter just has a ranged Battle Fury
Slark is just Mirana's Leap mixed with Puck's Dream Coil
Enchantress is just Chen with a time limit on her creeps.
NormalFish
Banned
I dunno man, I guess we can agree to disagree.
In my mind SF is like the carry mid version of CM. Nice design aesthetically, but pretty boring otherwise. That isn't to say it isn't effective, just doesn't really seem like anything new.
Yes please. Puck is a joy to watch.
Captain Fish
Member
I miss Puck too, he's my favourite mid to play.
lol at those hero comparisons
lol at those hero comparisons
Sigismundo
Member
OK, my bad. I figured you meant the jump scare SF ult thing.
The solution is simple, we just have Ice Frog dramatically change the meta every month.
Can't you just make a private lobby for one of those TD games and play by yourself?
SilentRacoon
Member
Gem TD can be played solo, the spawns and XP scale depending on how many players there are in the lobby, definitely can be soloed. Game is a bit hard but also very addictive so play under your own risk.
I didn't know that was an option
Ah ok, I'll download it and give it a chance.
Brawndo Addict
Banned
What exactly has been so awful compared to any other production? It seems pretty normal fare.
EDIT:
Lol apparently someone is pirating/re-hosting the stream on Twitch and whatever screen cloning program they were using had a license expiry message pop up. I guess Twitch people don't understand it's an MLG event.
Procarbine
Forever Platinum
SecretMoblin
Member
bokr is right though
I don't know what it is about this patch, but for some reason it seems like 90% of the games I lose now when party queueing (almost never happens in solo to me), we lose because we just lose all map control in 10-15 minutes. I don't know why the first reaction people have when this happens is to panic and play what I like to call "headless chicken dota". Nobody rotates on what should be easy kills, nobody does anything to stop the problem at hand, maybe gank the mid or carry that's getting a lot of farm, smoke, ward, deward, defend towers when we have ults up, the list goes on. It's ridiculously frustrating when most of the games are a result of this "headless chicken dota" being played when the other team groups up at all to take one or two objectives, it just domino effects into the rest of them. The sad thing is, IT COULD EASILY BE STOPPED.
/rant
/rant
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