Support NeoGAF

[Volodja]

Let's talk about orb stacking and buff placers and their priorities according to buying order or inventory order, that has always been some fuckery.
All that shit is being erased bit by bit from Dota 2, but it was never a bug, just a limitation of the WC3 engine and explained poorly in Dota 2 (no, the whole UAMs don't stack is not an accurate depiction of the whole thing).

Or let's talk about armor types and damage types (no, not magic, physical, pure, but piercing, siege etc), concepts that are completely erased from the Dota 2 vocabulary but are actually still in the game because outright taking them out would affect the balance. Not a bug, just shit that is honestly not even worth worrying about for the most part.

Fact is that the fountain aura has a stickiness of a couple of seconds and that aura grants bottle refill, pretty straightforward.

 

[Haly]

It's not something you would think to try, it's not something you would have any reason to try other than knowing it works. Who randomly hands teammates their items just because it might do a trick?

This doesn't matter. DOTA's mechanics were never designed to be easily "discoverable".

That you think they are is just one entry in a long list of preconceived, but still arbitrary, notions, you have about the game.

 

[JC Sera]

Spoiler

fuck its a new page

 

[mfaex]

EG dota finally

 

[twobear]

did i just watch a soylent commercial

is this the demographic

STEM majors? yeah

 

[Haly]

Honestly, it's not even a difficult change. Just code a new, invisible aura that exists in the fountain, refills bottles, and has 0s sticky time.

There, "fixed", but it's not.

Why?

OSfrog feels it's worth keeping. It becomes an intentional design choice the moment it's discovered and Icefrog thinks "I'll allow it". You don't get to decide this. If you think it should be changed because you keep losing to it, fine, but that's a balance issue. Don't try to legitimize your salty gripes by yelling "BUG!"

 

[Imp the Dimp]

I love Purge

 

[Hylian7]

Let's talk about orb stacking and buff placers and their priorities according to buying order or inventory order, that has always been some fuckery.
All that shit is being erased bit by bit from Dota 2, but it was never a bug, just a limitation of the WC3 engine and explained poorly in Dota 2 (no, the whole UAMs don't stack is not an accurate depiction of the whole thing).

Or let's talk about armor types and damage types (no, not magic, physical, pure, but piercing, siege etc), concepts that are completely erased from the Dota 2 vocabulary but are actually still in the game because outright taking them out would affect the balance. Not a bug, just shit that is honestly not even worth worrying about for the most part.

Fact is that the fountain aura has a stickiness of a couple of seconds and that aura grants bottle refill, pretty straightforward.

Orb stacking and buff placers make perfect sense, and is explained in the item text. You can only have one of them (unless Lifesteal + Skadi/OoV) and the most recent one you picked up overrides the other ones. Maelstrom/Mjollnir only override when you get a proc, since you aren't getting anything special out of it on every attack.

Armor/magic resistance is also specified, just mouse over your hero's stats to see what that entails. You can do the math to calculate how much armor you would need to take care of X damage, etc.

This doesn't matter. DOTA's mechanics were never designed to be "discoverable". It's just one entry in a long list of ideas you impose on the game rather than simply accepting it as it is, like everyone has been for the last decade.

How do these things get discovered then? I highly doubt a lot of mechanics we know today were written in every single patch notes. They were discovered on accident, by someone trying to find gamebreaking stuff, or someone with source code access.

 

[Haly]

Usually it's the first two.

 

[rexor0717]

I wonder who is going to win.

 

[misses bull]

lmao

 

[Hylian7]

Something else I forgot to mention, this change that everyone hates in 6.85: The following target unit items are now like Bottle, self cast by default and target cast with control: Clarity Potion, Mango, Healing Salve

Is it "imposing" how I want the game to be to say it shouldn't be this way? I think most people agree that this should be an option rather than forced on everyone, as there is no logical reason to force this on everyone and it has just lead to accidents with trying to Salve/Clarity/Mango someone else.

 

[TUSR]

Something else I forgot to mention, this change that everyone hates in 6.85: The following target unit items are now like Bottle, self cast by default and target cast with control: Clarity Potion, Mango, Healing Salve

Is it "imposing" how I want the game to be to say it shouldn't be this way? I think most people agree that this should be an option rather than forced on everyone, as there is no logical reason to force this on everyone and it has just lead to accidents with trying to Salve/Clarity/Mango someone else.

i hate the ctrl changes

 

[Haly]

Yes? But it's not a bug. It's working fully as intended.

You wanting the game to work in a different way than it's being designed to do does not mean there is a bug. How difficult is this?

You work in software engineering for fuck's sake. Do you not understand the difference between a feature request (or a feature removal) and a bug?

 

[SilentRacoon]

A simple addition to the item description would suffice, but I guess that's too much to ask.

This reeks more of lazy developers than a subtle design choice TBH.

And I say this as someone who loves the "Souls" series, this is just not a suitable route to take for a game of this nature IMO.

 

[Hylian7]

Yes? But it's not a bug. It's working fully as intended.

You wanting the game to work in a different way than it's being designed to do does not mean there is a bug. How difficult is this?

You work in software engineering for fuck's sake. Do you not understand the difference between a feature request (or a feature removal) and a bug?

Have you ever heard the phrase "It's not a bug, it's a feature"?

 

[Volodja]

Orb stacking and buff placers make perfect sense, and is explained in the item text. You can only have one of them (unless Lifesteal + Skadi/OoV) and the most recent one you picked up overrides the other ones. Maelstrom/Mjollnir only override when you get a proc, since you aren't getting anything special out of it on every attack.

That's not true, the mechanics for orb stacking were not always that straightforward.
Maybe they are now that they reduced the number of orbs, but back in the day they weren't and the whole "UAMs don't stack" didn't explain anything, actually.
Some orbs would override others regardless (like Deso would always prevail over Diffusal, no matter what).
Not bugs, just the way the game engine would work. Now those aspect have mostly been rooted, but others have not.

For example:

Armor/magic resistance is also specified, just mouse over your hero's stats to see what that entails. You can do the math to calculate how much armor you would need to take care of X damage, etc.

Based on your response I assume you don't know what Normal, Siege, Hero, Piercing damage and Light, Medium, Heavy, Hero, Fortified armor are.
So much for it being obvious mechanics.

 

[Hylian7]

That's not true, the mechanics for orb stacking were not always that straightforward.
Maybe they are now, but back in the day they weren't and the whole "UAMs don't stack" didn't explain anything, actually.
Some orbs would override others regardless (like Deso would always prevail over Diffusal, no matter what).
Not bugs, just the way the game engine would work. Now those aspect have mostly been rooted out for orbs and such, but others have not.

For example:

Based on your response I assume you don't know what Normal, Siege, Hero, Piercing damage and Light, Medium, Heavy, Hero, Fortified armor are.
So much for it being obvious mechanics.

The UAM thing must be really old WC3 Dota then, because in Dota 2, it's never been from what I remember.

No, I'm not familiar with those armor types?

 

[KingKong]

EG hype

 

[JC Sera]

That's not true, the mechanics for orb stacking were not always that straightforward.
Maybe they are now that they reduced the number of orbs, but back in the day they weren't and the whole "UAMs don't stack" didn't explain anything, actually.
Some orbs would override others regardless (like Deso would always prevail over Diffusal, no matter what).
Not bugs, just the way the game engine would work. Now those aspect have mostly been rooted, but others have not.

For example:

Based on your response I assume you don't know what Normal, Siege, Hero, Piercing damage and Light, Medium, Heavy, Hero, Fortified armor are.
So much for it being obvious mechanics.

Still never going to be as bad as flat foot armor

Spoiler

fuck D&D

 

[Volodja]

The UAM thing must be really old WC3 Dota then, because in Dota 2, it's never been from what I remember.

No, I'm not familiar with those armor types?

I'll admit that if I remember well some fuckery went on with orbs in the passage from Dota 1 to Dota 2 and I don't completely recall if it was completely the same (which, again, made the whole situation not that much better considering that the only resource about orbs and buff placers was at that point unrealiable).
As for the second point, you are not familiar with them because Valve completely avoided ever mentioning them in Dota 2, but they are there and are a fundamental part of the game that you have no way to actually know if you don't just know it from outside sources. Defintiely not a bug.

 

[Haly]

Have you ever heard the phrase "It's not a bug, it's a feature"?

Yes, and Dota has been built upon this aphorism from its inception until now.

So respect it.

 

[Hylian7]

Yes.

So respect it.

No, it's a phrase lazy software engineers make to not fix a bug.

 

[LiQuid!]

I feel bad for Universe. He's the only EG player that doesn't have a Twitch emote.

 

[Haly]

No, it's a phrase lazy software engineers make to not fix a bug.

I keep fucking telling you, and you keep fucking missing it, that these "lazy software engineers" made Dota what it is today by being "lazy".

And, hey, wow, it's a great game! Who would've thought that not all "bugs" are bad? It's almost like unintended, emergent mechanics is a cornerstone of Dota or something!

But that can't be right, can it? If only we had some point of comparison, like a Dota from a parallel universe that tried to fix all the "bugs".

 

[Volodja]

No, it's a phrase lazy software engineers make to not fix a bug.

"This reasoning has been used by lazy people therefore every usage of this reasoning is lazy"

 

[KingKong]

best carry in the west kappa

 

[1.09]

 

[inkls]

luna is the ember of the safelane

 

[SecretMoblin]

I always thought the fountain had an aura like naga song/radiance/etc???

it can be weird to kill a radiance holder and have the burn kill you afterwards but I get it

 

[t0rment]

did eg forgot that there's a rubick in the other team?

 

[inkls]

I always thought the fountain had an aura like naga song/radiance/etc???

it can be weird to kill a radiance holder and have the burn kill you afterwards but I get it

some auras are sticky and have some extra duration after leaving their aoe, like ET's natural order

 

[Ultrabum]

STEM graduate reporting in, I gotta get me some of that mother fucking soylent!

 

[G.ZZZ]

Lost 7 games in a row i'm 4900 MMR HEHEHEH

 

[SecretMoblin]

some auras are sticky and have some extra duration after leaving their aoe, like ET's natural order

eek yes that buff is rather fantastic, play Elder Titan today on iTunes and Spotify


the fountain thing never made me fume, it's just all the arbitrary crap about what a root does and does not do, what purges what etc.

 

[Hylian7]

I would be more accepting of the fountain thing if they actually had it display a fountain aura buff. That's my biggest beef with the whole thing, even less so than the fact that it doesn't make much logical sense, but at least that's illustrated somehow if it had a buff icon.

 

[Auteezy]

How is Hylian such a beacon of knowledge?

 

[Red UFO]

If you get mad about the fountain thing you're a fucking plank and need to get a grip.

 

[misses bull]

The ti curse is already hurting EG

 

[sleverfunk]

The ti curse is already hurting EG

Or it's just classic EG doing bad on the first day.

 

[Volodja]

I would be more accepting of the fountain thing if they actually had it display a fountain aura buff. That's my biggest beef with the whole thing, even less so than the fact that it doesn't make much logical sense, but at least that's illustrated somehow if it had a buff icon.

As I said, the fountain aura has a couple seconds of stickiness and the same aura grants bottle refill. Game mechanics logic is pretty straightforward.
As far as actual logic, think of it as you being covered in fountain water even in your pockets for a little bit after you stopped frolicking in it and tpd out, if it bothers you.

 

[Hylian7]

If you get mad about the fountain thing you're a fucking plank and need to get a grip.

Resorting to name calling, really classy buddy.

We know that bottles are filled up in the fountain, fountain doesn't show up as an aura, why is that? That's what bothers me.

 

[kvk1]

STEM majors? yeah

STEM graduate reporting in, I gotta get me some of that mother fucking soylent!

oh cool

i didn't know it was a thing

 

[inkls]

As I said, the fountain aura has a couple seconds of stickiness and the same aura grants bottle refill. Game mechanics logic is pretty straightforward.
As far as actual logic, think of it as you being covered in fountain water even in your pockets for a little bit after you stopped frolicking in it and tpd out, if it bothers you.

this is how it works in the lore hue

 

[Red UFO]

Stacking jungle camps is a bug technically, I wonder when the lazy software engineers will get around to taking that out, I hate it when the jungle camps stack!!!!!!!!! It's just not fair!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Hylian7]

Stacking jungle camps is a bug technically, I wonder when the lazy software engineers will get around to taking that out, I hate it when the jungle camps stack!!!!!!!!! It's just not fair!!!!!!!!!!!!

You clearly don't intend on having any kind of intelligent discussion on this subject, who am I kidding.

 

[Volodja]

Resorting to name calling, really classy buddy.

We know that bottles are filled up in the fountain, fountain doesn't show up as an aura, why is that? That's what bothers me.

It's not the only thing that doesn't show, not sure about the reasoning.
If I recall correctly in HoN the fountain aura is a visibile icon, though.

 

[JC Sera]

STEM graduate reporting in, I gotta get me some of that mother fucking soylent!

I cant tell if you're being serious or not

 

[rexor0717]

That was such a shitty play by Vega. Why...

 

[KingKong]

Sumail da god