Dota 2 |OT2| Ellen Pudge starring in Beyond Two Throws
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I do, also I was playing dota before roughly half the roster and 2/3 of the items were even designed
Trust me when I say that dota is now more complex, dynamic and feature packed than it ever was.
Just mm as bad as it seems, is a huge improvement
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
Midas > Vanguard Earthshaker, I'm not ready for this.
AM seems like a bad choice after 6.79. May just be IG sucking though.
AM seems like a bad choice after 6.79. May just be IG sucking though.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
It's still an inane thing to say. Pretty much all games going through continuous development are always more complete and featured than they ever were before. That doesn't mean continued development, progress towards parity, and communication with the community are unnecessary (when the former two were promised and the latter would sure be nice).
MM is the biggest improvement IMO. In dota 1, most of the games ended with one person haveing 20+ kills, the skill discrepancy between players was so large.
Dinosaur Tamer
Member
Which was fine as long as they actually worked on the game and dished out an update every week or two. It's a completely different situation when nothing happens for several months and they just skip what they defined as an annual event without a word.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
13 Valve devs logged onto the dev forum three days ago to look at a thread debating why KrisK was better than ChrisC
Not one logged on all day yesterday or the day before to write a simple "No Diretide this year, sorry"
Not one logged on all day yesterday or the day before to write a simple "No Diretide this year, sorry"
SteveWinwood
Member
If you don't believe that at one point in time the game will reach full parity with DotA, then I don't know what to tell you. Of course it will. So yes it was promised. And it will come.
They never promised it would be fast. You also should have known that it wouldn't be fast as guess what look who's making it.
If you don't like the fact that Dota 2 might still not be "complete" or in full parity by 2015, then you're playing the wrong game by the wrong company.
If you're upset by the fact that a meaningless and extremely silly Halloween mini game wasn't given to you on time (I still fully believe it's coming, just not by yesterday duh), you're playing the wrong game by the wrong company.
If you don't like that they're not "communicating" or delivering cool new stuff all the time, you're playing the wrong game by the wrong company.
Valve has NEVER communicated effectively. Ever.
Valve has NEVER been fast. Ever.
Why anyone is shocked at all about any of this amazes me. All you have to do is look at the last 15 years of their company.
Yes, being fast and communicative would be nice. But you shouldn't expect that. They've never shown you any reason to expect it. I don't know why all of this has come to a head over Diretide of all things.
You want a hero all the time? LoL and Dawngate are right over there. You want a "full DotA experience"? DotA is right over there. You can even buy the client right from Blizzards site digitally, or go pirate it like millions of other people around the globe. You want a halloween event? Someone posted a list of them right there.
Whatever this will blow over in a week and everyone will just go 'oh remember when everyone was bitching about diretide that was funny'.
You're playing the wrong game by the wrong company.
Also the reconnect option, 1 disconnect? GG!
Although i kinda miss being able to swap players from factions in the middle of agame, ha
Haunted
Member
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
I'm going to address the communication concerns because I think that's the biggest issue.
Yes, Valve has a history of being abominable in PR. However I don't think it's arguable that the communications (already bad) have gotten worse and worse in Dota 2 over the last several months.
Regardless of any of that, the community has a problem with it. I don't think that should be discounted. It's a legitimate issue and maybe some day people will become frustrated enough to put their money where their mouth is on this matter. Even if they don't, I don't think saying "go play another game" is healthy discourse when we're talking about a legitimate complaint from people who've invested time and money into something.
Sgt.Pepper
Banned
Are you playing devil's advocate or are just trying to say "don't complain about a free game" kind of deal?
Seems like a shitty way of saying Valve shouldn't be called out for it. Regardless of the years they have done it.
SteveWinwood
Member
It is an issue. I don't like it. They should be better at communicating all things. Over the last 15 years though they've never improved on it. I don't think they will any time soon. Valve knows their fans don't like it, and they still haven't "fixed" it. I don't know what to do at that point other than tell you you can either deal with it or play something else if it really bothers you. There aren't a whole lot of other options.
Maybe you could start an internet petition.
Oh god forbid you get a close game once a month, that fame also seemed to always have a non-rage dc 25 min in
((((((Dota 2 is a much better overall experiance than dota 1.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
It's a huge problem that is endemic to Valve's corporate culture. Someone put it in Dota terms earlier somewhere: they all picked carries.
Because there are no official job titles and no managers to assign anyone to it, no one wants the lowly job of talking to the customers. That's fine and good when everything is going as planned, but when there are major fuckups in the workflow and no one is saying what is going on the community gets angry as a result.
Because there are no official job titles and no managers to assign anyone to it, no one wants the lowly job of talking to the customers. That's fine and good when everything is going as planned, but when there are major fuckups in the workflow and no one is saying what is going on the community gets angry as a result.
They actually used to announce delays and changes in schedule on their blog back when the game was still in beta, explained their thoughts behind new features and commented on things going on in the community and competitive scene. If you skim through some of the older blog posts this should become pretty clear.
Now we've had nothing since TI3 except for the First Blood update which was nothing more than glorified patchnotes. They didn't even bother making a blog post for 6.79, which not only brought huge changes, but is the first balance patch not coming to WC3 DotA around the same time, if ever. This communication blackout is unprecedented.
Nope, AR.
SteveWinwood
Member
I vote for this.
Imp the Dimp
Member
Sounds like you're making up excuses to be frank. They've always treated their community like crap so don't expect them to improve their conduct?
Just wondering why you are siding with a huge ass company you are not affiliated with as opposed to solidarizing with the community you are part of. Also, most of us have sunk some bucks into the game, so the "it's free so stfu or play lol" argument ain't so hot either.
And again, what harm is there in staying in contact with the player base or perhaps even publish a release schedule, even if it's vague? No Diretide this year, patch frequency has slowed down enormously, number of hero releases has decreased to pretty stupid levels and so forth. This game is clearly being financed by cosmetic sales so being F2P does absolutely not release Valve of the responsibility to treat customers accordingly.
SteveWinwood
Member
Yeah pretty much. I'm being realistic here. They've never shown they can or will improve it. They're not blind or deaf, they know that their community wants some communication and they're not giving it.
So yes, don't expect them to improve their conduct.
Also I don't think they treat the community "like crap" but whatever. Apparently not saying "hey we're working on stuff ttyl" makes you a monster.
There is no harm.
They won't do it though. So don't expect it. Adjust your expectations.
If you don't want to give them money to reward them for that policy than don't. It was your money you put into it and you should have known what you were getting into. Not like it was a secret, you have 15 years of evidence to look at. The blog posts ViviOggi mentions are outliers.
Schweinehund
Member
diretide schism '13
the day the dota 2 community drew lines.
I'd like to think that matt and especially wyrm didn't post those pictures for no reason. The last few test patches have been on friday. Keep your expectations in check, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were a test patch today.
the day the dota 2 community drew lines.
I'd like to think that matt and especially wyrm didn't post those pictures for no reason. The last few test patches have been on friday. Keep your expectations in check, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were a test patch today.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
I honestly can't believe they wouldn't plan something as an event for their most popular game by far, with millions of daily players. Especially after art leaked for two 'spirit' heroes earlier this week. It just makes no sense
okay now I'm mad and a little bit sad
dave is ok
aztek is ok
Valve debated not including him, but considering concept art exists - I'm guessing they decided against it. He'll never be added to CM though.
Plenty of heroes have been removed from various Dota versions over the years.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
Sadly, all they'll have to do to fix this is release a free pumpkin head Chaos Knight hat for everyone.
I'm a little disappointed about the lack of a Diretide event. Partly, I liked the festive map which was also active during the main mode and also the heaps of items.
Mostly, though, I was looking forward to it because my friends have essentially given up on Dota but would have returned for the event. They mostly find the regular game too stressful even if we are a team of five and have slowly abandoned it because they worry they'll let each other down.
... so mostly I guess I need to find new people to play with.
Mostly, though, I was looking forward to it because my friends have essentially given up on Dota but would have returned for the event. They mostly find the regular game too stressful even if we are a team of five and have slowly abandoned it because they worry they'll let each other down.
... so mostly I guess I need to find new people to play with.
I was looking forward to getting more free drops.
They could have said "No diretide this year" and I would not be mad.
From the time Icefrog took over the game no hero was removed at all, some heroes got reworked yes, turning them into "new heroes" by altering some of their spells (Storm spirit is a good example). Other old heroes like Invoker where added back into the game.
They could have said "No diretide this year" and I would not be mad.
From the time Icefrog took over the game no hero was removed at all, some heroes got reworked yes, turning them into "new heroes" by altering some of their spells (Storm spirit is a good example). Other old heroes like Invoker where added back into the game.
SteveWinwood
Member
I don't think any have been completely removed from "modern" (icefrog age) dota, but when it was a clusterfuck for fun game there was lots of goofy shit that has been scrapped at one point or another.
This has working image links to show some of them (the play dota thread that has the same info has broken images
) http://vnsharing.net/forum/showthread.php?p=6485733&langid=3
Here are some that were removed or later reworked heavily so they might as well be completely new.
http://www.playdota.com/forums/showthread.php?t=517562
Old invoker is hilarious, how that was ever an idea is beyond me.
Not that I know of
Only the very beginning of it is in Vietnamese and the rest is lifted wholesale from somewhere else (probably playdota).
are you a Vietnamese Steve ?
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
I might be very wrong, but I think I remember more than a hero get removed due to unforeseen OP, then later readded as balanced.
But it's been years so my memory might be hazy.
If there is anything this game needs is a ranked/unranked option
I don't think any have been completely removed from "modern" (icefrog age) dota, but when it was a clusterfuck for fun game there was lots of goofy shit that has been scrapped at one point or another.
This has working image links to show some of them (the play dota thread that has the same info has broken images
http://vnsharing.net/forum/showthread.php?p=6485733&langid=3
Here are some that were removed or later reworked heavily so they might as well be completely new.
http://www.playdota.com/forums/showthread.php?t=517562
Old invoker is hilarious, how that was ever an idea is beyond me.
I wonder if these guys where from a time before Dota Allstars or if those where playable on Allstars. I read that before Dota Allstars there where many verions of dota with many different heroes and Allstars was an attemp to unify those. Also while wc3 dota dropped the allstars part, it is still present on the getdota website
I really dont remember a time where a hero was removed for one version or something like that. My memory is foggy too so Im not sure.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
Was Techies in CM in Dota 1?
Yes.
Yes, he is in CM in 6.78c, the last wc3 dota version
He will ruin matches that were going to be ruined anyways. He is either picked by the worst player ever (just like when people pick carry and dive like crazy/never farm) or be picked by the best player ever. There is almost never a middle point.
Also please tell me no one who thinks Techies was not going to be ported thinks that because of this post in the playdota forum:
I think he has some awesome applications, especially with how the state of the game is now. If anyone has played Brood War, I imagine he could be used in conjunction with Pugna and someone else as a sort of siege tank / missile turret / spider mine timing push. It can force out early gems at a time where heroes are heavily at risk to losing them.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
Nah, not that post. It was a Tobi visit where he asked about them and Valve said they were still thinking about it. I thought they said something about never adding him to CM, but I'm probably wrong. I can't find the reddit post now.
SteveWinwood
Member
I have no clue. I know so little about old dota it's not even funny. I love reading about it, but it's crazy how much stuff has been lost to time or a crazy rumor.
I remember a lot of stuff about how they always said Techies was always going to be ported last and that was in like 2011. I never knew how true that was.
I'm excited for techies, but he doesn't effect me or my playstyle any more than any other hero due to the modes I play namely AR (for funsies), CM (for srs bns), CD (middle ground). I feel bad for all the people who still play AP but they have no one to blame but themselves for that.
His only role is to disrupt the match, he cant play as initiator, he cant play as carry, he cant be 5 slot support.
It would be a hard hero to play now, but counter him costs a lot of gold or some specific heroes like summoners or heroes with aerial vision + gem. And even then you would need to walk as a group, anyone in anyother part of the map could be in danger of dying at any given time.
He pretty much makes every path where creeps do not walk unsafe.
Yeah I remember something about that, I mean it makes sense to be carefull about adding him back because he disrupts the game a lot, but I dont think they ever said anything definitive
AP is the second best mode, only outclassed by CM. I do not like CD and RD, they really close a lot of the options to counter lineups. Sometimes 2 bans are not enough. RD is kind of fun but again not many options to counter stuff and AR is just madness. CD is good for praticing new lineups as you are forced to go with stuff you are not confortable with, but that's it
It would be a hard hero to play now, but counter him costs a lot of gold or some specific heroes like summoners or heroes with aerial vision + gem. And even then you would need to walk as a group, anyone in anyother part of the map could be in danger of dying at any given time.
He pretty much makes every path where creeps do not walk unsafe.
Yeah I remember something about that, I mean it makes sense to be carefull about adding him back because he disrupts the game a lot, but I dont think they ever said anything definitive
AP is the second best mode, only outclassed by CM. I do not like CD and RD, they really close a lot of the options to counter lineups. Sometimes 2 bans are not enough. RD is kind of fun but again not many options to counter stuff and AR is just madness. CD is good for praticing new lineups as you are forced to go with stuff you are not confortable with, but that's it
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