NaVi kicks Kuroky to get an all CIS team, Akke leaves Alliance for his real job and they disband. Qojkva leaves. A new team forms...
s4
EGM
Kuroky
Qojkva
Xcalibur
why xcalibur and not a real carry? t_t
NaVi kicks Kuroky to get an all CIS team, Akke leaves Alliance for his real job and they disband. Qojkva leaves. A new team forms...
s4
EGM
Kuroky
Qojkva
Xcalibur
Surely the issue is the fact that Dendi's hero pool is actually smaller than we think?
Black's stability/Xboct tunnel vision isn't what's losing Na'Vi matches.
Edit: I love how Fear has been elevated to top tier status when he's only ever been quite ordinary for the past few years.
I didn't watch enough of Navi's games to comment on them.
EG I don't know myself, but they still got 3rd, so the team isn't exactly bad and has time to improve even more as they are still young. RTZ actually said on his interview from I think the second or third day of the groups that Mason had been playing the best of all of them up to that point, so I don't know if they will agree with the idea he is the weak link.
RTZ even agrees with you. He said in that same interview that he was playing the worst.
why xcalibur and not a real carry? t_t
It's mason. Only mason.
Dendi's pool isn't particularly small. Pudge, SF, Puck, TA, Tinker, Storm, QoP, DK, Skywrath, and Invoker are his best. You don't need a pool bigger than that out of solo mid. Problem is, he was often given heroes he's only "servicable" with (Razor, DP, Brewmaster). When Puppey gave Dendi a snowball hero, Dendi generally snowballs (save for one poor QoP game, iirc).
Xboct's tunnel vision AND lack of map awareness HAVE lost Na'Vi matches because they both add deaths that delay items, which delay movements, stall pushes or force the concession of objectives...and this has been a point of discussion since well before TI. It's indisputable to me...as is the reality that Black^ is a better carry player. If you like Na'Vi and want to see them improve, the fastest way to do that is to upgrade the roster. It's pretty easy to start at the Carry position. Maybe you're satisfied with Xboct and that's cool if you are. The rest of us feel he is a glaring weakness on the roster and I don't think they win another TI with him at the 1 position. I think Black^ or a similar talent make Na'Vi much better, instantly. If you feel otherwise, we can agree to disagree.
We agree that Puppey's drafting has been questionable at times. Not necessarily on paper, but in terms of drafting heroes that are strong for the players on your team. Drafting ET (a hero that really can't make plays very easily) for Funn1k offlane is in my book a drafting mistake. Drafting DP or OD for Dendi feels like a mistake because they don't really make plays early. They AFK farm. Again, that is a drafting mistake...and as far as I know, Puppey calls the shots. Hence my point that Na'Vi needs someone in there raising objections to Puppey's ideas when appropriate.
Also, Puppey may have the smallest hero pool on the entire team. When he's not playing Enchantress, Chen or Enigma, he worries the fuck out of me. He seems to only be somewhere between "average" and "slightly above average" with most other 5 heroes. I'd suggest replacing Puppey, but it's his team; he ain't goin anywhere. So I'll simply suggest that Puppey needs to spend some time working on his own hero pool.
Where's your list of what teams need to do? You seem to be adept at objecting to other people's opinions but have yet to produce a list of your own for Western team improvements for us to shit on.
Proceed with your list, Governor. Don't worry; I'll wait.
Where's your list of what teams need to do? You seem to be adept at objecting to other people's opinions but have yet to produce a list of your own for Western team improvements for us to shit on.
Proceed with your list, Governor. Don't worry; I'll wait.
If all you saw was "get rid of Xboct", you didn't read the entire paragraph. This entire secondary conversation has been based on something already covered in this sentence:We've gone from just saying getting rid Xboct to talking of other issues in the Na'Vi game.
I agree that will help them too. I expect that to come with time and maturity. You guys can't sell me on Mason, though. He's a baller on Weaver, but he rarely impresses on anyone else. BUT...he is young, so it's certainly fair to suggest he will grow into better performance with other carries. Immediately, my gut tells me he's not ready to win TI. Also, his personality and style are hella off-putting. I'd much rather see FEAR come back than that douchebag on the roster.I'm not him, but I think with EG the one thing I would speculate is that they need to realize how to adapt a draft when the other team are targeting their greed. The chinese teams were worried about Zai coming into TI, and his jungle was targeted, a lot. Go back to basics on occasion, use those supports to make sure Arteezy wins his lane and Mason isn't pressured. Early game is so so important, don't throw it away trying to farm all the time.
Edit: As an example look at the game I think in the group stage where C9 beat VG. They ganked the fuck outta DP so Sing would have the advantage.
dr kirby wants to eat lunch with anbokr
pls respond
TI 4 win rates: http://dotabuff.com/esports/leagues/600/heroes?date=patch_6.81b&hero=®ion=&duration=
Omniknight imba, plz nerf.
anyone agree with me that last years change to smoke by making it non detectable ruined the meta? I never liked the change and I think it has to be reverted. Its only counter early game is playing survivable heroes with immaculate positioning and support tps. I'd rather have a timer on sentries than keep smokes as they are right now, there should be more risk to it.
s4
EGM
Kuroky
Qojkva
Black
You sommbitches are going to have to explain to my why you didn't just exchange phone numbers like civilized people. Forums shouldn't be your text messaging system.
I think it's harsh to put so much blame on xboct when he kept getting put on heroes that don't suit him. I lost track of how many times he was playing Razor or offlane Void. Newbee showed that you can still grab heroes like Weaver or Lifestealer and win, but Puppey just went along with the tournament trends instead of making picks that suited them as players. The problems stemmed from the draft and made them all look bad in my opinion.Dendi's pool isn't particularly small. Pudge, SF, Puck, TA, Tinker, Storm, QoP, DK, Skywrath, and Invoker are his best. You don't need a pool bigger than that out of solo mid. Problem is, he was often given heroes he's only "servicable" with (Razor, DP, Brewmaster). When Puppey gave Dendi a snowball hero, Dendi generally snowballs (save for one poor QoP game, iirc).
Xboct's tunnel vision AND lack of map awareness HAVE lost Na'Vi matches because they both add deaths that delay items, which delay movements, stall pushes or force the concession of objectives...and this has been a point of discussion since well before TI. It's indisputable to me...as is the reality that Black^ is a better carry player. If you like Na'Vi and want to see them improve, the fastest way to do that is to upgrade the roster. It's pretty easy to start at the Carry position. Maybe you're satisfied with Xboct and that's cool if you are. The rest of us feel he is a glaring weakness on the roster and I don't think they win another TI with him at the 1 position. I think Black^ or a similar talent make Na'Vi much better, instantly. If you feel otherwise, we can agree to disagree.
We agree that Puppey's drafting has been questionable at times. Not necessarily on paper, but in terms of drafting heroes that are strong for the players on your team. Drafting ET (a hero that really can't make plays very easily) for Funn1k offlane is in my book a drafting mistake. Drafting DP or OD for Dendi feels like a mistake because they don't really make plays early. They AFK farm. Again, that is a drafting mistake...and as far as I know, Puppey calls the shots. Hence my point that Na'Vi needs someone in there raising objections to Puppey's ideas when appropriate.
Also, Puppey may have the smallest hero pool on the entire team. When he's not playing Enchantress, Chen or Enigma, he worries the fuck out of me. He seems to only be somewhere between "average" and "slightly above average" with most other 5 heroes. I'd suggest replacing Puppey, but it's his team; he ain't goin anywhere. So I'll simply suggest that Puppey needs to spend some time working on his own hero pool.
It may just be my poor memory, but I don't recall Mason with a standout performance on any carry but Weaver...his signature hero.
Perfect dota doesn't mean it's exciting. The finals were as exciting as seeing germany play brazil this world cup. There needs to be an extended back and fourth struggle, or at least a decent enough chance of come back for a game to be exciting. Outside of the first five minutes of each game none of them provided any of that.rip lycan, my new main champion is ursa
icefrog just plz make howl not global and don't butcher my hero
also @all the people calling the grand final boring and shit you're only saying that cuz it's 2 chinese teams that you don't give a shit about, if EG/c9 played out the same series with the same heroes and plays everyone would lose their shit--the games were fairly fast and exciting and newbee played close to perfect dota.
smoke is what kinda drives the entire early game, otherwise we'd go back to a laning stage of just 10 minutes of straight farming and little to no roaming
Perfect dota doesn't mean it's exciting. The finals were as exciting as seeing germany play brazil this world cup. There needs to be an extended back and fourth struggle, or at least a decent enough chance of come back for a game to be exciting. Outside of the first five minutes of each game none of them provided any of that.
it's not like we didn't have any roaming in dota prior to the change(last autumn if I recall).
it's not like we didn't have any roaming in dota prior to the change(last autumn if I recall).
I dunno man I quite enjoyed 7-1gate.
Before the smoke buff and the pull changes, all supports did was sit in the safe tri and constantly pull for some nice xp. There was no reason to roam and risk failed ganks when you could cruise to level 6 on the back of some medium camps in a safe lane.
What happened to the caster with the radio voice from TI3?
Are you talking about Ayeeee?
Fnatic - trixi/era/xcalibur are not good enough. Fly wants to play carry. No tail is in the wrong position. Hanni is ok not spectacular. I think no tail could mid or off, support is wasted. Reliance on io to win = not good enough
.
Aysee was his name yeah, I forgot.
Anyone else play in South Korea? Not the same as yurop.
I get the feeling Valve finally listened to all the negative reactions he gets. He was casting group stage stuff though. I think next year's final will be Tobi + Synd.
too bad, I really miss Ayesee.
get Lumi the fuck away from the main event please.
Ayesee/Tobi/LD + Synd/Fckingmad/Merlini, pair them up one from each side
fnatics problem is team composition. things got awkward when nova left and they brought in a carry player in his stead. Fly has on numerous occasions said he'd like to play carry and doesn't enjoy being support, notail has said similar things. All of them are greedy players by nature.Honestly even though I'm a big fan of Fnatic the only standout player I think they have is H4nn1, N0tail has been fairly awful lately, Fly has been a bit of a non-factor, Trixi is either great or terrible and lately mostly terrible, Era is a sold player but made a few mistakes at TI (maybe lack of practice), Excalibur after his explosive start pretty much did nothing for them come ESL
I honestly have no idea what they can do with the roster because none of them have really been performing lately, role swaps might be what they need though
I don't like Lumi at all. What the hell does he even add? It certainly ain't knowledge. I want Merlini, Synd, and other ex-pros as analysis guys. I was a huge hater of Ayesee but he's gotten better, now I don't like Tobi.
I get the feeling Valve finally listened to all the negative reactions he gets. He was casting group stage stuff though. I think next year's final will be Tobi + Synd.
Ah right he was? Had no idea about that, haven't been around for months. Wouldn't he have been good for the newbie stream though?
Stuff I made up:EG - Replace Mason. Preferably with a rejuvenated FEAR. If not FEAR, poach a strong carry from some other Western team. Maybe TC? Maybe someone from one of the weak euro teams like Mousesports or Rox.KIS? If not them, they should strongly consider Black^.
Na'Vi - Replace Xboct. Preferably with Black^, but if they can't poach him from CiS for some reason, maybe they poach someone like Illidan from VPro or even Silent/Resolut1on from Empire. I think Black^ is most at home here, figuratively and literally. He could join a fellow German player and be back close to home. With people who can speak and understand the language. Also, Na'Vi needs a vocal counterbalance to Puppey's crazy-ass ideas. Na'Vi loses more games than they should at the draft. I also wouldn't mind seeing Funn1k Clinkz return a bit more often.
Alliance - Find their motivation again. I think they suffered the same kind of post-TI hangover that iG had after TI2. Not dedicated enough. Not hungry enough. Everyone had to make post-patch adjustments and they adjusted poorly. They don't need a roster change. They're among the best in the world at every single position. They just need to find that "I'm broke" hunger again.
C9 - Stay together and get a coach. They had a strong showing and it's just their first year together. Envy will grow from this and hopefully get hungrier and more focused. I need to see more focus and seriousness out of SingSing; I sometimes feel like he mentally checks out or isn't always there when it's time to make good decisions. Those things will come with time. They will come in less time with a coach of the caliber of someone like FEAR. Someone to give them a little more structure and focus. The Cloud 9 organization will no doubt get them what they need. It's a very, very strong organization.
Liquid & NARVI - They need to fuse. The best players from these two teams need to reform as the new Na'Vi US or Team LIquid. That way, they can shed that horrible mistake of a name in NAR and be stronger overall. Neither is strong enough as-is. Maybe add Mason as their carry.
11 Million Stretch Goal: Ancients being replaced by golden statues of Lord Gaben.
They tried to balance it out with Sgeever grill, but it was just time fillerThe panel for TI5 should be the entire GD Studio doing the same shit they did when they did the HUB. Would be much better than the shit we got this year
Even James himself implied he thinks the panel is a shit idea
Also
We missed out
MerleeZy and lumi is nightmare fuelJust put Merlini with anyone and the cast is fine. Merlini is the best caster in the scene and I really wish he was doing casting instead of analyst desk.
matchmaking is taking longer than the TI4 finals #rekt