Heavy's Sandvich
Member
Why would you remove the penalty for going afk?
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DOTA 2 |OT6| Plz vote for Keeper of the Light Arcana
- Thread starter Teknopathetic
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GordonHalfman
Member
If fountain farming is the main problem couldn't they just make the fountain area deeper? Like put a little alcove behind the turret for people to hide in.
That's perfectly fine and I've had those games. But if everyone has already given up mentally why prolong the suffering and push five people closer to quitting and indulging five assholes who refuse to end?
And we can move this discussion back and forth like this but I think it's at least worth a shot, if for no other reason than if it fails and every game is terrible then they can remove it and be able to say "we tried that already, it didn't work"
Also there's nothing barring them from only implementing it in non-ranked games.
Oh don't get me wrong, most of these games we basically gave up too. Hence my saying we would have definitely conceded them all if there was such an option or if we were still playing HoN. But we kept playing half-assed because we were forced to, there was no option to surrender, and hey, you win one fight out of the blue and morale starts building back up, and sometimes that carries you to a win, sometimes it doesn't. I don't want the former completely stamped out by a concede option (which it most definitely would be).
Not to mention sometimes people feel like games are a lot worse than they actually are (only seeing kills/towers and not having access to spectator mode and everyone's gpm/xpm's, etc... can make people feel the game is a lot worse than it actually is and lead to many many awful concedes).
SneakyStephan
Banned
fuck a surrender option, if that is your thing go play league
dota has a million comeback mechanics, breeding a defeatist attitude in the playerbase would be horrible
dota has a million comeback mechanics, breeding a defeatist attitude in the playerbase would be horrible
Again, not denying you these games. I said it should be a 5/5 vote so if just one person wants to fight, you fight.
If you played HoN, you know that's not how it's going to work. People don't just go "oh that one dude doesn't want to concede just gotta play it out." No, concede will be spammed everytime it's allowed to be and you'll have 3-4 people in all chat and team chat whining, "fuck this loser pink, fucking report his ass, being a dickbag declining our concede."
How many games of dota do you have 4 people in the well whining incessantly unless t4's are going down or your last raxx is about to fall? You normally get 1 or 2 early defeatists (at most) that whine to let it end but they tend to come back when they realize they are being ignored and your team is actually showing signs of life.
Avatar quote.
PillowKnight
Member
This was true with HoN's concede, it doesn't solve the problem of people quitting--you can't solve that, it just gives you an easy out.
That's a good point, and it's one way in which having a partial concede is useful, instead of just straight up ending the game--one person can quit but the others can continue to play. Actually, they wouldn't have been able to concede cause I wouldn't have been there to vote. Regardless, how useful is this when you often have games where you're stuck in a game where neither you , nor your team want to be in. Essentially, you're saying the lack of concede forces you to play on in situations that you wouldn't otherwise, and that this is a positive effect. One which is large enough to compensate for the time people spend in hopeless games, in game where they're being fountain camped, or games where half the team's afk in the woods.
How about, instead of wasting people's time, you instead make a decision to not quit games early. This is more or less how I played in HoN , and Dota. All of the negatives of the concede option are of course true, ive seen it first hand. People throwing to force you to quit, people trying to report you for not conceding, getting flamed for being the last vote not to quit. All of that is preferable to the massive waste of time which often happens while pubbing in dota2.
This is already in the game, it's called abandoning.
I mean, Valve gives you like 2 abandons a week (depending on how many games you play). I know personally there have been games in solo queue that I just didn't feel like playing out and so I just ate the abandon and moved on, and that's it.
It's frustrating to get fountain camped and it's frustrating when your entire team is afk, but in the latter scenario, the game is probably ending within 5-10 minutes. The former scenario definitely needs to be addressed, carefully, in a way that prevents lengthy and malicious fountain camping.
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
Funn1k actually listens to the worst music.
ScottSullivan
Member
That dagon witch doctor build looks fun as hell. Do you use the stun maledict, and then just let the dagon damage.stack.from there? Sounds hilarious
That's a small XP difference, no need to surrender.
http://dotabuff.com/matches/546201223
This game was 4-36 20 minutes in. The only reason we cameback was they thought it was over and started joking around (e-blade slardar).
And I have tons of matches with AM split pushing and winning even if we were really behind.
http://dotabuff.com/matches/751341454
http://dotabuff.com/matches/525140955
I still want the concede option, at least for party games. In all these we knew we could comeback.
Funn1k actually listens to the worst music.
It's so bad.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
This pretty much, or make the fountain elevated like somebody on Reddit said recently. Much better alternative to discourage fountain farming without introducing concede.
Good point. I think, however, that I have been in way more situations where the game should have ended way earlier (both on the winning and losing sides) than I have situations where I made a comeback. And I think that's what makes those games so special, but if people want to agree to deny themselves that comeback, they should have a choice. It sounds naive and I know it's prone to abuse, but they should at least give it a try in unranked.
And you say it was a problem in HoN, but was it so bad that you would have stopped playing if dota 2 hadn't come out?
Maybe making fountain farming less viable is a solution, but you still have to deal with the time wasted, and I don't want to get an abandon because I chose to alt-tab in the middle of a fountain farm that went on for longer than five minutes.
Also, there are rhetorical ways are ways to make the concede less in-your-face and thus less likely to be a knee-jerk reaction (burying it in menus and such might be more effective than you'd think).
My 'worst stream music' streams:
1. Merlini (I can't handle trance around the world)
2. EternalEnvy (Shitty Anime music)
3 Funn1k (music doesnt fit the game)
Best stream music:
1. Draskyl (80s-90s hits)
2. Singsing (Gorillaz all day)
3. w33/h4nni/bigdaddy (one of them has a playlist i love. dont remember who)
1. Merlini (I can't handle trance around the world)
2. EternalEnvy (Shitty Anime music)
3 Funn1k (music doesnt fit the game)
Best stream music:
1. Draskyl (80s-90s hits)
2. Singsing (Gorillaz all day)
3. w33/h4nni/bigdaddy (one of them has a playlist i love. dont remember who)
PillowKnight
Member
I have a lot of beefs with the way the abandon system works. Lots of "im gonna take one for the team shit" and the punishment for them isn't really big enough. It's better than the angsty teammate alternative, I guess. It doesn't really help much to address the aforementioned problems, I'm not gonna abandon every time some guy wants to afk woods cause he thinks the game is over and everyone spends 10-15 minutes eating shit waiting for the enemy team to push in.
Never concede
!
SneakyStephan
Banned
Oh I know
we could have seperate queues for conceders
that would pool all the defeatist gg calling whiners that sometimes show up in my games together where they can ragequit and abandon together, while normal people can play in the non concede matchmaking
Maybe valve could come up with a fancy name for it too, like "low priority"
we could have seperate queues for conceders
that would pool all the defeatist gg calling whiners that sometimes show up in my games together where they can ragequit and abandon together, while normal people can play in the non concede matchmaking
Maybe valve could come up with a fancy name for it too, like "low priority"
Shorty11857
Member
Having a Bounty Hunter stalk you in the jungle as Enigma is so frustrating
Or official tournament with millions $$ price pool.
That literally just happened in the game I was in 5 minutes ago. Are you 'Dreams'?
Shorty11857
Member
Nah, name is the same as on here. Literally in my game now, been the most frustrating and slow start to an Enigma game ever
You have ways to deal with a bounty hunter as an enigma though since, unlike other junglers, you are stronger than he is with eidolons and you'll be sitting at a comfortable hp pool most of the time, your jungle will still be slower than normal obviously. I think warding enigma's jungle is much worse for her. Now a bounty hunter that would ward your camps, stalk you and body block the rest, that would be a nightmare. His investment in doing so would probably be worth it too, since he can bounce back in an easier fashion.
There's always a plan B with enigma though, on dire side she can do ancients while denying creeps which is very safe generally. She can also just lane for a while or go to the opposite jungle (preferably no against a bh though), enigma is a very strong laner, especially in 1v1 situations. In general, when I see a bounty hunter on the opposite team, I try to avoid going to the jungle because it is too easy to punish for him.
Regarding the concede option debate, I think this should be addressed in some capacity. Yes, sure there are always come backs, hell yesterday we won a game where my team was at a 17k xp deficit at 45 minutes with tinker/clinkz/tide on the other team and furion as our hardest carry > http://dotabuff.com/matches/811533236 but these scenarios are few and far between. I wouldn't mind a concede vote after a certain time limit personally, in hon it was 15 minutes but I think that is way too early. Yes, it is abusable, yes there are a lot of drawbacks to it but when it works as intended, it saves time & avoids unnecessary frustration.
Enigma's a lady??
SneakyStephan
Banned
Because the option to gg out in tournaments makes competitive players wana call it quits
tournament players can recognise when they genuinly can't win the game (pubs obviously can't)
sometimes they have to play 8 games in a row at a tournament and don't have time to play out the last 10-15 mins of a game or they'd be playing for 12 hours straight
It has a purpose there.
in a perfect world you could have surrender in pubs, but people are stupid so you can't, it would ruin the mentality of the community
And I think we can all agree that moba communities don't need more ruining
CharpyImpact
Member
Just picked up a few series 1 Dota plushies and I got an extra Earthshaker. Anyone want to trade? I am still looking for Ursa, Death Prophet, Bloodseeker, Puck, or Warlock. PM me!
I agree wholeheartedly as a League expatriate. Hated the gratuitous concede votes and whining that cropped up solely because the feature existed in the game, and much prefer players being forced to play it out or eat one of their weekly abandons. Cultural poison in an already poisonous genre as community goes.
see but i'd rather take this once in awhile than literally every single time my team loses a fight:
*beep*
"Do you want to concede?"
*beep*
"Do you want to concede?"
*beep*
"Do you want to concede?"
*beep*
"Do you want to concede?"
*beep*
"Do you want to concede?"
*beep*
"Do you want to concede?"
*beep*
"Do you want to concede?"
*beep*
"Do you want to concede?"
"report brown fkn retard wont concede"
Could also mean "smoke and do a do-or-die gank on the enemy/our jungle". Choosing to hide is just that, a choice.
And also what Anbokr said.
Wok
Member
But then why is it allowed at the international?
It's also a highly regulated environment in general, with sponsors and strict limits on speech. What works there isn't necessarily going to work in pubs.
This should be in the OP of every OT henceforth
you can surrender in lower tier leagues and friendly scrims too as long as it's a team match and there's nothing like regulated speech there believe me.
Personally I would like an option in the settings where a person can choose whether he/she wants the concede vote option available or not in his/her games. If all 5 people on a team have this option enabled in their settings then the concede vote will be available and can be started by anybody at 30 minutes. If one person or more don't have it enabled, then it is simply disabled for everyone during the whole game (just like it is right now).
User 85168
Banned
no RTZ? His music is just literally bad. Intentionally bad music.