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[cuevas. PhD.]

I am likely in the minority here but I feel SingSing was not a good fit for the rest of the team, it never felt like his style was in sync with the others.

I'm in the minority because I don't like SingSing, he's around my age but acts like a Damn 13 year old. I don't get how anyone out of high school can stand his shtick. He's fun to watch play though, which is all I care about. So go SingSing!

 

[Nirvana]

Did you try putting them on passive?

Was trying to practice farming under pressure properly. Item timings and last hitting is one thing, but actually trying to farm while being harassed in lane etc. is something else. Having said that, since the bots just 5 man, you always know where they are, and they never gank, plus they don't know how to react to split push, so you can often stop a rax just by threatening a tier 1 or some shit.

I guess I would be better off just practicing last-hitting and item timing instead :/

I'm in the minority because I don't like SingSing, he's around my age but acts like a Damn 13 year old. I don't get how anyone out of high school can stand his shtick. He's fun to watch play though, which is all I care about. So go SingSing!

Yeah, not the biggest fan of Sing either. What I do like about him is that he is generally pretty positive when he plays, and basically only playfully flames people. I generally only watch Merlini, since he's actually informative though, and occasionally Dendi when he speaks English since he can be pretty informative. I've heard Ice Ice Ice is good as well but I've never managed to catch his stream.

 

[manfestival]

Pick Void every game

LoL teams using Dota 2 strats?


We best MOBA confirmed

dota 2 has an adc role?

 

[Haly]

I don't think you guys understand how mmr works. It's not an evaluation of skill, it's a ranking compared to the rest of the pool. The more someone wins, the more someone else loses. It balances out. Valve said the average was 2250, and it will ALWAYS BE.

Look at it this way, if you have a 20 car race, the average finish position will be 10.5. Even if everybody improves dramatically, and the lap time goes down, not everyone can get a top 3 finish. The average is still 10.5.

This can't be true, as 4k is no longer the top of the ladder.

Hell, the peak of the ladder was ~5k on release, and now it's 6k.

 

[kvk1]

Was trying to practice farming under pressure properly. Item timings and last hitting is one thing, but actually trying to farm while being harassed in lane etc. is something else. Having said that, since the bots just 5 man, you always know where they are, and they never gank, plus they don't know how to react to split push, so you can often stop a rax just by threatening a tier 1 or some shit.

I guess I would be better off just practicing last-hitting and item timing instead :/

Ah, gotcha. Yeah I see how that can be frustrating.

 

[Imp the Dimp]

4.1k used to be top 99%. Now I'd be reluctant to say if 4.1k players are even in the top 10th percentile of Ranked players. 99% is probably closer to the 5k level. The MMR ranges between Unranked and Ranked are wildly different, using one as a baseline for the other makes even less sense than comparing MMRs between regions.

Take a look at the leaderboards:

http://www.dota2.com/leaderboards/#americas

You need an MMR of 5400-5800 to be among the best players in the world. Surely, some sufficiently highly rated players don't meet the criteria to be on the leaderboards and there are probably quite a lot of 5.4k players on EU servers as well, but even if there were 2k or 3k players as opposed to the 1k displayed on the leaderboards with an MMR of 5.4k, they'd be in the 99.9997% (!!!) percentile. How could possibly 1 out of 100 players be 5k+, when only one out of ~35.000 is 5.4k? Please understand that the conception on Dota 2 forums is insanely skewed as to what is good and what isn't.

 

[kvk1]

Sometimes I wish I had listened more attentively in math class.

 

[JakOfTheShadows]

This Game of Thrones remix on the Starladder stream right now...

Edit: Here it is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XA6a7sYKeeA

 

[Haly]

if there were 2k or 3k players as opposed to the 1k displayed on the leaderboards with an MMR of 5.4k, they'd be in the 99.9997% (!!!) percentile.

Surely you're not making the assumption that all DOTA2 players play ranked?

 

[DivineRage002]

This can't be true, as 4k is no longer the top of the ladder.

Hell, the peak of the ladder was ~5k on release, and now it's 6k.

The top rating has nothing to do with the average, it's one player out of millions. The average stayed exactly the same.

 

[Haly]

If the average remains the same, then you have to cede that there is someone out there with a negative MMR.

Frankly, I doubt that's even possible, or if such a player would continue playing.

 

[Imp the Dimp]

Surely you're not making the assumption that all DOTA2 players play ranked?

I assume the number of 5k+ players not playing ranked is negligible which makes those stats perfectly reasonable.

 

[Imp the Dimp]

If the average remains the same, then you have to cede that there is someone out there with a negative MMR.

Frankly, I doubt that's even possible, or if such a player would continue playing.

Well, since you can't drop below 1 or 0 (not sure if anyone ever got this low) but rise indefinitely, it's definitely rising. Especially with level 13 players excluded from ranked MM, you can make a case for the average ranked MMR being higher than non-ranked. We don't know by how much but the former top 90% percentile turning into average is not gonna happen. One out of 100 players being 5k is utterly utopian as well.

 

[DivineRage002]

If the average remains the same, then you have to cede that there is someone out there with a negative MMR.

Frankly, I doubt that's even possible, or if such a player would continue playing.

1. 1000
2. 1250
3. 1250
4. 1500
5. 2500
6. 6000

Average of 2250.

Nobody has to go in the negative, just a bunch of people below 2250.

Edit: And that's with a RIDICULOUSLY small sample, with one player being one of the best in the world. In a more "normal" pool with a decent sample, most players (70%) will be 2000-2500.

 

[Shorty11857]

If the average remains the same, then you have to cede that there is someone out there with a negative MMR.

Frankly, I doubt that's even possible, or if such a player would continue playing.

Well yeah technically if two 0 MMR players play each other the winner gets 25 MMR from nowhere but honestly the number of players at 0 MMR must be way too low to affect the average.

The other times MMR isn't a zero sum is when new players are either too good or too bad for the starting MMR, so smurfs raise the average MMR and new players lower it (generally).

 

[manfestival]

1. 1000
2. 1250
3. 1250
4. 1500
5. 2500
6. 6000

Average of 2250.

Nobody has to go in the negative, just a bunch of people below 2250.

I havent personally met anyone that has openly admitted being in the 1ks but I have seen 1 person that stated he was 1800. Most of the people in the chat rooms I participate in are at leas 2800

 

[DivineRage002]

I havent personally met anyone that has openly admitted being in the 1ks but I have seen 1 person that stated he was 1800. Most of the people in the chat rooms I participate in are at leas 2800

Look at my edit, this example is nowhere near a normal pool.

 

[Acinixys]

dota 2 has an adc role?

I always assumed that the comparison was ADC - #1/2 position

 

[balladofwindfishes]

This exact thing happened to me (also getting mine today), 'cept I had to send them an email asking where my shit was before they'd send me the shipping notice.

I'm totally going to get 5 axes and another Puck from last years series

Hoping for Pudge, Lion, Meepo, Undying and Lich from this year, and Enigma or Earthshaker from last year's.

Best worst case scenario is I get duplicates of Meepo, which would be okay if I was going to get dupes. Worst case is 5 dupes of someone like Kunkka or TA. And worst case for 2013 is another Puck, as I already got 2 of them last year.

I will be getting 5 2014 boxes and 1 2013 box. I have an additional order of 3 more 2014 boxes coming soon also.

 

[Kade]

Wraith King is cool.

 

[Hylian7]

I think sometimes its better to accept that certian heros arent for you

And I refuse to buy that, especially for Storm Spirit.

I may accept that for BlyatCyka, but I honestly have zero interest in picking, playing, or ever improving on that hero.

 

[Haly]

Nobody has to go in the negative, just a bunch of people below 2250.

But this would also stretch the shape of the bell curve so the peak would shift towards a higher MMR???

If the lowest MMRs remain in the 1k range, but the highest MMRs went from 4k to 5.5k, then the bell curve would change to reflect that, or else it would become lopsided. I assume the MMR algorithm is self correcting to an extent so the average of 2k Unranked would shift to around 3k for Ranked.

 

[SteveWinwood]

1. 1000
2. 1250
3. 1250
4. 1500
5. 2500
6. 6000

Average of 2250.

Nobody has to go in the negative, just a bunch of people below 2250.

Edit: And that's with a RIDICULOUSLY small sample, with one player being one of the best in the world. In a more "normal" pool with a decent sample, most players (70%) will be 2000-2500.

So they're sacrificing their median and mode and normal distribution just to maintain an average which doesn't mean anything?

 

[Glass Shark]

I havent personally met anyone that has openly admitted being in the 1ks but I have seen 1 person that stated he was 1800. Most of the people in the chat rooms I participate in are at leas 2800

I am at 1877. When I see 3k+ players complain about the "trench", all I can do is laugh.

 

[DivineRage002]

But this would also stretch the shape of the bell curve so the peak would shift towards a higher MMR???

If the lowest MMRs remain in the 1k range, but the highest MMRs went from 4k to 5.5k, then the bell curve would change to reflect that, or else it would become lopsided. I assume the MMR algorithm is self correcting to a certain extent so the average of 2k Unranked would shift to around 3k for Ranked.

People in the low 1k are probably very rare, just like players in the 5k+. Most players are in the 2000-2500 area, the bell curve will be highest at that point.

3500+ already gets pretty sparse, just as 1800. The absolute extremes are ridiculousy rare, which would be a handful of people in the low 1k, and the pros in 6k+

 

[DivineRage002]

So they're sacrificing their median and mode and normal distribution just to maintain an average which doesn't mean anything?

Tbey are not sacrificing anything. When you win a game, if the teams are balanced, all 5 members of the winning team get 25 points, and all 5 members of the losing team get -25. The average stays the same.

 

[DivineRage002]

Here's the best way I can put it.

Players always EXCHANGE mmr based on winning or losing. No mmr points is ever created or lost. Therefor, the average never changes.

The only exception I can think of is when someone abandons, and their team manages to win without them, not sure how valve deals with that mmr loss but they surely have some way I don't know about.

 

[Quesa]

So they're sacrificing their median and mode and normal distribution just to maintain an average which doesn't mean anything?

I don't think he's saying anyone's "doing" anything -- just that this is what's happening.

 

[Carlius]

why do ppl think pudge is a viable pick in ranked? such a terrible hero, specially if you cant hook. pudge pickers just never adapt, they go straight for the pudge pick even if someone else picked mid. sometimes this game is just so dumb.

 

[Hylian7]

why do ppl think pudge is a viable pick in ranked? such a terrible hero, specially if you cant hook. pudge pickers just never adapt, they go straight for the pudge pick even if someone else picked mid. sometimes this game is just so dumb.

Pudge is a viable hero in ranked if you know what you are doing. Screwing someone else over that picked mid is not a good idea though.

I've picked him plenty of times in ranked and it usually works nicely.

 

[Emerson]

LoL teams using Dota 2 strats?


We best MOBA confirmed

Watching the videos in that article I'm only reminded once again what a visual abomination League actually is.

 

[Haly]

I don't think you can assume, nor is it reasonable to assume, that the initial migration of players from Unranked-Ranked was 1:1 across MMRs, which is the crux of your "average remains the same" argument.

Considering the amount of anxiety typical players have over their MMR, anyone who would subject themselves to that much stress would place a lot of importance on being good at the game, and would likely already have an above average unranked MMR. Furthermore, 1k Unranked players who calibrate into 1k Ranked, while they see their peers at 2k, 3k, and 4k, would be discouraged from playing Ranked any further, pushing the average Ranked MMR upwards.

So, really, this is a discussion about the initial sample of MMRs that determined what the "average" is, and you're arguing that it was 2k, which I find hard to believe because it doesn't really account for player psychology. If the "average" player who committed to Ranked Matchmaking had an initial MMR of 3k, then the average today would, by your argument, still remain 3k.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Alright

I got Lion and Undying, which I wanted!
And then I got three crystal maidens which I didn't want
And also from 2013 I got Ursa, which isn't a dupe, so that's nice.

I won't be able to check my luckless chests until later. Maybe Ursa will surprise me and come with a Nyx Dagon.

 

[DivineRage002]

I don't think you can assume, nor is it reasonable to assume, that the initial migration of players from Unranked-Ranked was 1:1 across MMRs, which is the crux of your "average remains the same" argument.

Considering the amount of anxiety typical players have over their MMR, anyone who would subject themselves to that much stress would place a lot of importance on being good at the game, and would likely already have an above average unranked MMR. Furthermore, 1k Unranked players who calibrate into 1k Ranked, while they see their peers at 2k, 3k, and 4k, would be discouraged from playing Ranked any further, pushing the average Ranked MMR upwards.

So, really, this is a discussion about the initial sample of MMRs that determined what the "average" is, and you're arguing that it was 2k, which I find hard to believe because it doesn't really account for player psychology. If the "average" player who committed to Ranked Matchmaking had an initial MMR of 3k, then the average today would, by your argument, still remain 3k.

The thing is that we, as in neogaf, are a gaming community that is passionate about this game. Of course our average will be much higher, probably 2800 or something, same goes for giantbomb or any other gaming community.

But this game has well over 8 million players at this point. Most of those are random nobodies that don't understand the mechanics or even basic principles of this genre. Those are the 1kers. In the end everyone simply traded mmrs and some went up, while random nobodies went down. You are not seeing those because they don't associate with gaming communities.

 

[Sgt.Pepper]

Two decent nukes and he's dead.

So are a bunch of heroes with sub 2 str gain.

I think you are downplaying TB survivability.

 

[Technosteve]

I stopped playing Ranked when I lost every Calibration match to someone just throwing the game. I'm obviously 10k mmr player

 

[inkls]

So are a bunch of heroes with sub 2 str gain.

I think you are downplaying TB survivability.

unless slark

 

[manfestival]

I am at 1877. When I see 3k+ players complain about the "trench", all I can do is laugh.

I am 3.5k and it feels very trench but most of the players have a firm grasp of the game. I cant imagine how 1.8 feels... you must have had a streak of bad luck to place you there.

 

[FACE]

So are a bunch of heroes with sub 2 str gain.

I think you are downplaying TB survivability.

That and his starting hp is pitiful.

TB has a really good skill set though.

 

[Glass Shark]

I am 3.5k and it feels very trench but most of the players have a firm grasp of the game. I cant imagine how 1.8 feels... you must have had a streak of bad luck to place you there.

I have no one to blame but myself. I played really sloppy in unranked without thinking I would ever care to play ranked. I actually placed at 1600 and have climbed to where I am now over the past two weeks, so it's actually going well so far. But there are toxic players in pretty much every match I play right now, and I'm hoping that lessens as my MMR goes up.

 

[ksan]

guys, start tracking your mmr and the variation of mmrs after each game and we probably have a way to approximate the distribution

 

[Gully State]

Honestly I don't really care about my mmr (now unfortunately W/L is a different story- I'd give anything to be above .500 which unfortunately feels like an impossible task). All I know is that at 2900-3400, the game gives me fair matches for the most part.

 

[Sanjay]

Wish I had less of a phobia of playing ranked.

The e-penis must remain strong.

I don't think you can assume, nor is it reasonable to assume, that the initial migration of players from Unranked-Ranked was 1:1 across MMRs, which is the crux of your "average remains the same" argument.

Considering the amount of anxiety typical players have over their MMR, anyone who would subject themselves to that much stress would place a lot of importance on being good at the game, and would likely already have an above average unranked MMR. Furthermore, 1k Unranked players who calibrate into 1k Ranked, while they see their peers at 2k, 3k, and 4k, would be discouraged from playing Ranked any further, pushing the average Ranked MMR upwards.

So, really, this is a discussion about the initial sample of MMRs that determined what the "average" is, and you're arguing that it was 2k, which I find hard to believe because it doesn't really account for player psychology. If the "average" player who committed to Ranked Matchmaking had an initial MMR of 3k, then the average today would, by your argument, still remain 3k.

MMR Trickles-down. Thank the 6k MMR folks and bless the lord for yours.

 

[yarden24]

I don't think you can assume, nor is it reasonable to assume, that the initial migration of players from Unranked-Ranked was 1:1 across MMRs, which is the crux of your "average remains the same" argument.

Considering the amount of anxiety typical players have over their MMR, anyone who would subject themselves to that much stress would place a lot of importance on being good at the game, and would likely already have an above average unranked MMR. Furthermore, 1k Unranked players who calibrate into 1k Ranked, while they see their peers at 2k, 3k, and 4k, would be discouraged from playing Ranked any further, pushing the average Ranked MMR upwards.

So, really, this is a discussion about the initial sample of MMRs that determined what the "average" is, and you're arguing that it was 2k, which I find hard to believe because it doesn't really account for player psychology. If the "average" player who committed to Ranked Matchmaking had an initial MMR of 3k, then the average today would, by your argument, still remain 3k.

the mmr distribution remains even once both sides have played enough games, one side losing mmr the other side winning mmr in the same amount, if no one left or started playing dota 2 then the average would stay the same,however there are 2 causes that i can think of that can change the average.

when a new player gets finish's his calibration and gets placed, if he is placed above the average, he "added" mmr to the pool, and the average climbed up, however if he placed below the average, he just "removed" mmr from the pool, and the average went down, I would guess that the vast majority of players are placed below average mmr, and lower the average.

on the other hand, players also quit playing, the same thing applies here but backwards, if you are below average and quit you "add" to the mmr pool, and above you "remove" mmr.
now considering that the good players probably quit considerably less then the bad players, I would say the majority of players that stop playing are ones that start playing, lose mostly, giving mmr to the other players, and quit, and in so raising the average.

depending on how valve has played with initial mmr distribution will determent the balance between these two things, though im sure there are more factors I didn't think off.

 

[Ketch]

ugh, i've only had time to play one match in the last like week and a half…. real life is mo fo.

 

[G.ZZZ]

Every single one of you sucks anyway so stfu.

 

[Zeth]

Ok this is neat

I don't really play Pudge but I have the Force Hook from some ticket and I like it - prefer it to the whale hook and all the rares I have.

 

[kvk1]

Every single one of you sucks anyway so stfu.

I'm the Dendi of the spectator tier.

Get on my level.

 

[StrongArmSteady]

Pick Void every game

LoL teams using Dota 2 strats?


We best MOBA confirmed

Come on son! That realy work?

 

[JakOfTheShadows]

The CG videos on the Dota Legend (mobile Chinese card game) site are hilarious looking. I still can't believe this thing exists. I might try downloading it myself.

http://d.longtugame.com/