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[Hylian7]

Behold the future of pubs, Ancient Cliff Jungling Prophet!

Oh god pls no.

At least it won't be as terrible as regular cliff jungling as they aren't stuck up there for the next 50 seconds. Still going to be horrible to deal with on my team though.

I played with my first ever ES at 2100 MMR last night.

He went 0-12-3 and the only item I specifically remember him having was an Urn of shadows.

I checked DotaBuff and he had brown boots, bottle and magic wand as well. He had the lowest farm on the team by 4k gold.

I'm so sorry. That guy clearly had no idea what he was doing with the hero. I bet he just set his rocks out willy nilly thinking he was going to play pinball.

He also had a really low win rate in 6.79 too.

 

[Anbokr]

They really need to change the way the catch-up mechanism functions before this goes live or shortly after release...:
1) Code it so it snapshots and gives gold/xp based on the difference in team networth 30s prior to death
or
2) Just code it so dropped items still count towards team networth

I'm really really not looking forward to an entire patch of people trying to cheese the new comeback system by having their "safe" allies (across the map or in fountain) drop their items before a carry/mid gets ganked and dies. You know envy is going to exploit the shit out of this in competitive, and other teams will too. There's no reason not to if you know you're safe and you're ally is going to die. System is too easy to cheese right now.

 

[Hylian7]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=126436289&postcount=15803

I did this a while ago might give you some rough idea

20% of ranked games are in the Very High Bracket (3.7k+)
22.5% High (3.2k+)
57.5% Normal

Unranked is
8% Very High
15% High
77% Normal

Interesting, I like that we have a better definition of Normal, High, and Very High now.

 

[inkls]

They really need to change the way the catch-up mechanism functions before this goes live or shortly after release...:
1) Code it so it snapshots and gives gold/xp based on the difference in team networth 30s prior to death
or
2) Just code it so dropped items still count towards team networth

I'm really really not looking forward to an entire patch of people trying to cheese the new comeback system by safe allies dropping their items before 1-2 gankers or when a carry/mid gets caught. You know envy is going to exploit the shit out of this in competitive, and other teams will too. There's no reason not to if you know you're safe and you're ally is going to die. System is too easy to cheese right now.

can you drop items while doomed?

 

[Baha]

what a mess lol

Na'Vi forfeit game 2 so C9 wins.

EZ items I guess

Pretty sure they refund items in bets if one team forfeits.

 

[bbd23]

Pretty sure they refund items in bets if one team forfeits.

Nope. since game 1 was already played the items go to C9 betters.

 

[Shorty11857]

Interesting, I like that we have a better definition of Normal, High, and Very High now.

Just keep in mind a few things, that's based on games not players so if Very High people play more games than other skill groups that lowers their percentage.

Also Very High is the only skill group that plays ranked more than normal, so the main reason ranked MMR average is higher is because the players with lower hidden MMR don't play it as much

 

[Dreams-Visions]

They really need to change the way the catch-up mechanism functions before this goes live or shortly after release...:
1) Code it so it snapshots and gives gold/xp based on the difference in team networth 30s prior to death
or
2) Just code it so dropped items still count towards team networth

I'm really really not looking forward to an entire patch of people trying to cheese the new comeback system by having their "safe" allies (across the map or in fountain) drop their items before a carry/mid gets ganked and dies. You know envy is going to exploit the shit out of this in competitive, and other teams will too. There's no reason not to if you know you're safe and you're ally is going to die. System is too easy to cheese right now.

What is the nature of the issue as designed? People are going to attempt to drop items prior to death? Won't the enemy just destroy their items laying on the ground?

We suggesting people will pass items like batons in a relay race in order to cheese the system?

I'm probably not understanding. Can you give me an example of how this cheese could work to the advantage of the person who has the high net worth?

 

[ScottSullivan]

Yea I'm not buying it either, I don't think 99% of teams are coordinated enough to set up a gank, while 1 or 2 people are in the fountain, drop the items, while the other 3 do the gank, then pick up the items and go about their day.

No one is going to drop their items in lane or in the middle of the gank

 

[G.ZZZ]

Also i'm pretty sure Networth don't change unless the item is destroyed.

 

[Baha]

Nope. since game 1 was already played the items go to C9 betters.

Ouch.

 

[Anbokr]

What is the nature of the issue as designed? People are going to attempt to drop items prior to death? Won't the enemy just destroy their items laying on the ground?

We suggesting people will pass items like batons in a relay race in order to cheese the system?

I'm probably not understanding. Can you give me an example of how this cheese could work to the advantage of the person who has the high net worth?

No. The new gold/xp rubberband system is based around team networth. So if you're buddy is getting ganked top lane and you're in fountain regening and 2 others are sitting down in safe lane, he can yell over mumble that he's going to die, and then the dude in fountain and the safe laners drop their items. This leads to the enemy getting less gold than they would have otherwise.

Yea I'm not buying it either, I don't think 99% of teams are coordinated enough to set up a gank, while 1 or 2 people are in the fountain, drop the items, while the other 3 do the gank, then pick up the items and go about their day.

No one is going to drop their items in lane or in the middle of the gank

People do it all the time already for mana regen/arcane boots. This is no different except now you need a little voice chat communication--it might not be all too common in your solo pub games, but you can bet stacks and competitive teams will attempt to cheese the system.

edit: this all assumes valve hasn't taken precautions, perhaps dropped items will still count towards your total networth. Hopefully this is true, not sure if someone on the test client has actually tested it, you'd need 3 people at the very least.

 

[Quesa]

nvm I guess

 

[Dreams-Visions]

No. The new gold/xp rubberband system is based around team networth. So if you're buddy is getting ganked top lane and you're in fountain regening and 2 others are sitting down in safe lane, he can yell over mumble that he's going to die, and then the dude in fountain and the safe laners drop their items. This leads to the enemy getting less gold than they would have otherwise.

:O

 

[G.ZZZ]

(Also I can't believe how bad some 5k MMR players are. Completely abysmal. Constant overextending and just really bad decisionmaking. At what MMR do people start actually playing decent in this friggin' game?)

Also agree on the no maledict build. 2nd theorycraft best skill actually worst shit ingame. You can't walk up on ppl and just get gibbed, u want to abuse that 700 range stun and death ward. I still level up it after 11 thought, and leave heal at 1 or 2 for mana reasons, takign only a couple levels of stats since aghs give you a lot of stats anyway.

 

[Haly]

You can't tell me what to do!

Cask/Maledict for life.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Also agree on the no maledict build. 2nd theorycraft best skill actually worst shit ingame. You can't walk up on ppl and just get gibbed, u want to abuse that 700 range stun and death ward. I still level up it after 11 thought, and leave heal at 1 or 2 for mana reasons, takign only a couple levels of stats since aghs give you a lot of stats anyway.

yep. the only way maledict becomes relevant is if they once again buff the cast range on it.

 

[Glass Shark]

I'm looking forward to playing Undying and Lesh more with the next patch.

 

[Spookie]

So this is the damage from the secret shop.

 

[inkls]

Also new bloodrage says it amplifies ALL damage dealt and received. So is Bloodrage the only way to amplify pure dmg?

So if you rupture a target, cast bloodrage on them and then cast bloodrite on them bloodrite should deal and extra 96 dmg from 240 (336 total) and dmg you get from moving with rupture should be increased to 28%/56%/84% from 20%/40%/60%

If so you'd get 504 pure dmg from force staff at lvl 16 instead of 350. In total with bloodrite amplified that should be 840 pure dmg, so an extra 140 pure dmg compared to the old rupture + force staff combo.

 

[Hylian7]

Something I feel like people are overlooking out of this patch: Bloodstone.

Will we see many more heroes get it now?

I'm thinking Enigma, Tinker.

The biggest benefit though is the more useful build up to it. Timber, Leshrac, and more can have much use out of that soul ring.

 

[Acti]

Nexon/KDL is trying to get this Pudge set bundled with their ticket. I hate it:
http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=318370392

WTF is that?

 

[Drkirby]

Also i'm pretty sure Networth don't change unless the item is destroyed.

The guy who tested it dropped his raiper (which you are allowed to do if it had been claimed by another player yet), normal items dropped shouldn't change net worth.

 

[Kalnos]

Something I feel like people are overlooking out of this patch: Bloodstone.

Does it have reduced mana regen? It's an interesting change for Timber anyway.

 

[inkls]

Does it have reduced mana regen? It's an interesting change for Timber anyway.

nope, only change is bloodstone no longer gives +10 dmg. Regen is the same.

 

[sixghost]

Something I feel like people are overlooking out of this patch: Bloodstone.

Will we see many more heroes get it now?

I'm thinking Enigma, Tinker.

The biggest benefit though is the more useful build up to it. Timber, Leshrac, and more can have much use out of that soul ring.

The list of cores who would benefit from soul ring and mana boots is pretty short. It still seems like a niche item.

 

[Drkirby]

Does it have reduced mana regen? It's an interesting change for Timber anyway.

Same mana regen, only thing lost is the +10 damage.

I think bloodstone will be built more in pubs, if only because newer players are compelled to "finish" items, but it could result in new builds tried and a trickle up effect.

 

[Anbokr]

Is omni purification going through bkb? Anyone hear about this/test it?

 

[snack]

No. The new gold/xp rubberband system is based around team networth. So if you're buddy is getting ganked top lane and you're in fountain regening and 2 others are sitting down in safe lane, he can yell over mumble that he's going to die, and then the dude in fountain and the safe laners drop their items. This leads to the enemy getting less gold than they would have otherwise.

Is this real life? Now we'll have people yelling "DROP ZE ITEMS!!11" all the time.

 

[bbd23]

so is picking up crimson guard over mek viable

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Nexon/KDL is trying to get this Pudge set bundled with their ticket. I hate it:
http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=318370392

Pudge finds the remains of Tarrasque, hungry for power he eats the dragon's heart and also uses a piece of it to make a helm, hoping that the strenght of the dragon will live on, in himself. Pudge uses other pieces of the dragon's body to build himself an armor, he cuts one of Tarrasque's hands to make a hook, and it's tail as a knife (off hand).

lol

 

[Drkirby]

Is omni purification going through bkb? Anyone hear about this/test it?

Nope. I feel it should, but it doesn't. But I'm not fully convinced icefrog has actally finished balancing this new damage system, and expect more changes before it is live.

Sunstrike does though.

 

[Skab]

Interesting if it stays in/is intended.

Currently in the test client/6.82 Urn of shadows has been changed from HP removal to Pure damage.
Wave of terror had the same change but is only one instance of damage (Can now cancel salves/etc from 1400 range).
This change has remained though 3 test clients updates and might be an intended change.

Worth discussing as this has a few very notable side effects:

Cold snap damage and stun triggers on urn ticks. Good luck moving.
One Urn charge eats through an entire Refraction (RIP Templar Assassin). Also eats through Living Armor.
You can no longer counter a negative Urn charge with a positive one as the negative one cancels it.
Puts Blink Dagger on cooldown for 8+3 seconds.

 

[Volodja]

Is omni purification going through bkb? Anyone hear about this/test it?

It doesn't, same as Timbersaw stuff.

Some pure projectiles that shouldn't affect bkb targets do deal damage to them if you cast them before the immunity is activated, however.
And with some I think I mean Mystic Snake only, maybe.

 

[sixghost]

Interesting if it stays in/is intended.

If that stays unchanged, Urn secretly got the biggest buff of the entire patch.

 

[MrChocolate]

Behold the future of pubs, Ancient Cliff Jungling Prophet!

7:50 Midas?
Well, it's very slow tbh.

 

[eznark]

"It's hard to really give a shit about this"

Zyori is the fucking worst

 

[Kioshen]

You have 1 zero too many. Its 95k players is 1% is 9.5 million.

Math is hard ...

Spoiler

Thanks for pointing it out I typed it out too fast.

 

[Quesa]

wait ok

it's coming to me

timber: soul ring > tranqs/bots/keeps basic boots > scepter > bloodstone > profit??? Or should scepter/bs be switched?

 

[Anno]

"It's hard to really give a shit about this"

Zyori is the fucking worst

Man, the patch analysis thing last night was rough. And I'm not even the biggest Zyori hater, but I'm nearly sure he didn't read anything beforehand. Said that the 3rd pick was flipped I think, didn't even mention mek getting the hammer. Ugh.

 

[inkls]

wait ok

it's coming to me

timber: soul ring > tranqs/bots/keeps basic boots > scepter > bloodstone > profit??? Or should scepter/bs be switched?

cant disassemble tranq tho.

 

[Quesa]

cant disassemble tranq tho.

Sure, but with soul ring it might be viable to stick with them. And late game the 450 extra to buy a set of bots might not be so bad.

 

[Haly]

Competitive CS:GO is pretty funny.

 

[Drkirby]

wait ok

it's coming to me

timber: soul ring > tranqs/bots/keeps basic boots > scepter > bloodstone > profit??? Or should scepter/bs be switched?

I'd say get bs first.

 

[ViviOggi]

Interesting if it stays in/is intended.

This kills the blink

I don't see it staying this way.

 

[sixghost]

wait ok

it's coming to me

timber: soul ring > tranqs/bots/keeps basic boots > scepter > bloodstone > profit??? Or should scepter/bs be switched?

I don't see any reason to skip mana boots if you are building into bloodstone. You need the energy booster anyway and timber is mana starved early. I'd go soulring/mana boots first, depending on how hard the lane is, then grab the other. Finish bloodstone then go into scepter if you want it.

You would have a ton of mana problems, even with soul ring, if you went straight for scepter. Double Shakram costs a ton of mana.

 

[Kalnos]

wait ok

it's coming to me

timber: soul ring > tranqs/bots/keeps basic boots > scepter > bloodstone > profit??? Or should scepter/bs be switched?

IMO BS first because it lets you farm so much faster with your abilities.

This kills the blink

I don't see it staying this way.

Probably won't stick but it would be nice to see the escapability blink provides get some kind of nerf.

 

[Procarbine]

wait ok

it's coming to me

timber: soul ring > tranqs/bots/keeps basic boots > scepter > bloodstone > profit??? Or should scepter/bs be switched?

The more I'm thinking about it the more I'm doubting that soul ring first will be an every game sort of thing, let alone soul ring tranqs. He's not the sort of hero where you need to be spamming spells in lane unless it's a 1v1, so you can probably get away with just ring of regen into arcanes, or just arcanes like you would now.

Now for a 1v1 lane soul ring is pretty amazing, but I'm not sold on tranqs. When you hit that ring and want to cast spells you're going to have to get close to things to do it, almost making breaking your boots a sure thing. Combine this with timber wanting/needing to get hit for his passive to help you and bloodstone being a very time sensitive item, I would stay away from tranquils. If you're in a position where you have to stay so far away for so long that you benefit from the regen you probably won't be wanting to get a fast bloodstone anyway.

And bloodstone before ags, of course.

 

[Razzer]

The new bloodstone does seem slightly better for Timber. You can go to the offlane with soul ring recipe ala Brood, get it down there, then build the rest of your bloodstone from there as normal. He can't farm as safely until 6 so the easier build up than arcanes could be hella useful. Still get arcanes as well after tho.

 

[Quesa]

I don't see any reason to skip mana boots if you are building into bloodstone. You need the energy booster anyway and timber is mana starved early. I'd go soulring/mana boots first, depending on how hard the lane is, then grab the other. Finish bloodstone then go into scepter if you want it.

You would have a ton of mana problems, even with soul ring, if you went straight for scepter. Double Shakram costs a ton of mana.

Yeah, forgot about the whole booster thing. But I think I'll change my starting build to include a mask for better harass vs melees.