This is the first tweak to the XP numbers, they had only tweaked the gold numbers before and they were pretty absurd. No one should get 2.5k and 3 lvls off of a single kill.
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Dota 2 |OT7| What the fuck have they done
- Thread starter Artanisix
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This is the first tweak to the XP numbers, they had only tweaked the gold numbers before and they were pretty absurd. No one should get 2.5k and 3 lvls off of a single kill.
Whoops, yeah I meant gold.
Also I'm being slightly bitter about this whole thing because I never got to experience the initial patch. Haven't had the time to get a game in for about a week. BibleThump.
dude it was awesome
my team was losing 19-3, then our sven dies and says, i'll bb and you rp and we wipe them.
then he didn't have money for a tp after the buyback, sold his midas, bought his tp and IT IS A TEAM WIPEEE, THEY ALL DEAD and suddenly he (and pretty much the rest of the team) has 6k gold.
but people gonna complain because they get off on it.
Someone told me once about business "the client doesn't actually know what they want. Instead of giving them exactly what they ask for, listen to their complaints and use it to find what the real problem and solution is. Then give it to them, and they will be happy (if you did it right)"
Apply this to Valve and the community.
Apply this to Valve and the community.
Interfectum
Member
I dunno, seems to be IF's style. He'll turn the dial up a big amount then quickly dial it down as he gets feedback and sees the numbers for himself.
People always forget this and go nuts. "Dota is dead" "na.leagueoflegends.com" etc
And now people are using hyperbole again... "comeback is dead" "he caved to the whiners" etc
Luckily IF will just keep on keepin' on and everyone who complains will keep coming back for more.
As someone who was part of many argument about surrender, who didn't agree comeback happened often enough to justify no surrender ( with all the possible balance I already spoke about ) at all.
I find really sad how fast those comeback nerf are coming, it feel like in a couple day we will be back to 8.81 comeback wise, but this time for good. It really felt like that finaly you *really* could say at any time that a comeback was possible, over buying a Quelling blade and hiding for 10 min in the forest.
rakkadakka
Member
So how off of 6.81 are we with the latest numbers?
Interfectum
Member
The comeback is not "dead" just not as assured as it was pre-b patch.
6.82b
NWDifference = ( EnemyTeamNW / AlliedTeamNW ) - 1
NWDifference = 0.7716535433070866
NWFactor = NWDifference * VictimNW
NWFactor = 16204.724409448818
1 Hero: Gold = 40 + 7 * VictimLevel + NWFactor * 0.06 = ~1152g
2 Heroes: Gold = 30 + 6 * VictimLevel + NWFactor * 0.06 = ~1122g
3 Heroes: Gold = 20 + 5 * VictimLevel + NWFactor * 0.05 = ~930g
4 Heroes: Gold = 10 + 4 * VictimLevel + NWFactor * 0.04 = ~738g
5 Heroes: Gold = 10 + 4 * VictimLevel + NWFactor * 0.03 = ~576g
1 Hero: XP = 20 * VictimLevel + XPFactor * 0.3 = ~1563
2 Heroes: XP = 15 * VictimLevel + XPFactor * 0.3 = ~1463
3 Heroes: XP = 10 * VictimLevel + XPFactor * 0.2 = ~975
4 Heroes: XP = 7 * VictimLevel + XPFactor * 0.15 = ~721
5 Heroes: XP = 5 * VictimLevel + XPFactor * 0.12 = ~565
6.81
1 Assist: Gold = 125 + 12 * VictimLevel = 365g
2 Assist: Gold = 40 + 10 * VictimLevel = 240g
3 Assist: Gold = 10 + 6 * VictimLevel = 130g
4+ Assist: Gold = 6 + 6 * VictimLevel = 126g
1 Hero: XP = 120 + 20 * VictimLevel = 520
2 Heroes: XP = 90 + 15 * VictimLevel = 390
3 Heroes: XP = 30 + 7 * VictimLevel = 170
4 Heroes: XP = 20 + 5 * VictimLevel = 120
5 Heroes: XP = 15 + 4 * VictimLevel = 95
Killing Pudge with a Beyond Godlike Streak (Solo)
6.82 = ~4292g
6.82 (nerf) = ~2802g
6.82b = ~2012g
6.81 = ~1754g
Verbally
.game length
..add another 10-15 minutes more to play time
.early victory overconfidence
..a bit wierd, as opposing teams can now hit back (and may be even win) after a successful team fight
Haunted
Member
Just watched Team YOLO vs 90's Nyxtape in the GB community tournament, good games! Who the fuck is Eventide?
edit: another point to consider: they've been talking for what feels like years on how to mitigate the "early gg" syndrome that poisons a lot of pub games. Making an outrageously powerful comeback mechanic might be a good way to counteract this mindset, so that the general mood of "comebacks are really possible" remains more prevalent even after they've tweaked the numbers down to more acceptable levels.
edit: another point to consider: they've been talking for what feels like years on how to mitigate the "early gg" syndrome that poisons a lot of pub games. Making an outrageously powerful comeback mechanic might be a good way to counteract this mindset, so that the general mood of "comebacks are really possible" remains more prevalent even after they've tweaked the numbers down to more acceptable levels.
rakkadakka
Member
It'd be so much nicer if they just flat out said what they are trying with these changes rather than just modify the numbers.
The only way we'll be able to tell over the next few days is if they modify the numbers up.
The only way we'll be able to tell over the next few days is if they modify the numbers up.
Sigismundo
Member
Isn't this the case for every patch in the history of Defense of the Ancients, though?
Should probably read it too so he doesn't buy a 2nd bkb again.
Haunted
Member
:lol
Cyborgmatt
Member
A lot of people don't like change. They will get over it.
I was testing numbers last night and this current set is a good balance.
People seem to forget that things can be tweaked and go straight for the extremes. Everyone just needs to chill and let them refine it. They at least deserve that after doing this successfully for years.
I was testing numbers last night and this current set is a good balance.
People seem to forget that things can be tweaked and go straight for the extremes. Everyone just needs to chill and let them refine it. They at least deserve that after doing this successfully for years.
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
People don't like change and icefrog responds by changing the change because the change was too much change.
The community does have a valuable input.
The community does have a valuable input.
Do you think they would have released 3 patches over the weekend if everyone (including pros and casters) didn't complain about it?
Cyborgmatt
Member
Unfortunately any real valuable input from the community was burried under an army of ded game and "we are league now".
There is no way they would spend time going through all that noise for it.
That is what the testers are for along with individual players who understand balance.
Yes. Froggy has no issue with working outside of normal hours. He does it a lot.
Safe lane Pudge, never forget.
Cyborgmatt
Member
Splitting ranked queue up more would do more damage than good right now.Will we ever see random draft in ranked
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
Well surely people saying the xp/gold exchanges were problematic helped them to concentrate on those aspects?
I would rather keep one sided stomps and put a surrender command in the game than turn Dota into HotS. The comeback crap was way too out of hand and made sure the team that drafted the best for late game would win regardless of the first 20 minutes of the game, which is not right. Dota does not have the same homogeneous hero design that games like LoL and HotS have that should allow for that kind of exp/gold leveling. The way 6.82 started they might as well have just had all heroes on both teams level up at the same rate, because that's what was happening.
Interfectum
Member
That's assuming cause and effect. Maybe the numbers they were seeing behind the scenes (certain hero winrates skyrocketing, etc) caused them to rapidly patch the game over Twitter rage. Maybe this was IFs plan all along to dial up the amount and taper it down as he gathers data from games.
"ded game" has little effect other than the developers having to dig through the noise to get to real feedback.
Or who's the weakest laner in dota history? I know! SPECTRE!
Lets put her solo mid ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ
Lose games due to greedy/clowny picks.
"worst patch ever"
rakkadakka
Member
Input from the community is only valuable if they understand what the hell you're trying to do in the first place.
I fucking hate the community market.
I've been trying to offload my Rainmaker for five or six days now, every time I put it up it gets undercut by a dollar. Such bullshit. I think at this point I'm going to wait a week and see if the price climbs, because I don't want to sell this thing for sub $60.
Doesn't help there is some asshole that keeps removing his 4(!!!) rainmakers, relisting them a dollar lower, every single time someone beats his price.
I've been trying to offload my Rainmaker for five or six days now, every time I put it up it gets undercut by a dollar. Such bullshit. I think at this point I'm going to wait a week and see if the price climbs, because I don't want to sell this thing for sub $60.
Doesn't help there is some asshole that keeps removing his 4(!!!) rainmakers, relisting them a dollar lower, every single time someone beats his price.
I haven't ran the numbers or played a game with them yet, but it seems like the frog (aka you, kappa) is trying to get rid of the word "throw", as it implies that victories get set in stone and the remaining 10-30 minutes are just fluff.
Should early victories give you an advantage? Absolutely! And they still do.
Should early victories give you a license to fuck around and dive fountain 15 minutes in, die, and still win with ease? No. That is being turned into pissing away your advantage, which it should be. Now you have given your opponent a fighting chance by making a dumb play because #YOLO.
I'm sure there will probably be at least one more iteration of these types of number changes, but the idea behind it is great.
NinjaBoyLao
Member
My problem with this patch is It was made available in Tournament matches. IIRC, back in Dota 1, Tournament matches uses the Stable(and non experimental) map . This IMO made the pros extremely salty with this patch.
Sit on it for a bit.
The feature was possible in dota 2. You could use the previous patches in tournaments, but no one ever used it so valve removed it.
Cyborgmatt
Member
Players don't want to play two completely different versions at once.
Plus it would be a nightmare for spectators.
manfestival
Member
Does this patch make hard carries stronger in general? I see spectres winning stats and it makes me wonder
Well games on average are going longer which benefits Spect.
They need to get over it
Even if they played on the old map for a few more weeks they would eventually have to move over to the new one
I really like the changes. Its made the game fun again.
Plus I feel that the fact that Icefrog/Valve was willing to just change map and rune spawns and drop it on the community shows real balls. They want the game to be better for everyone, and it it means stepping on a few whiny "pros" toes i say all the better
Interfectum
Member
I agree. It gives me confidence that IF/Valve will not let this game grow stale in an effort to appease the pros (cough SC2 cough).
I think the thing that helps the most is that the general pub playstyle right now involves picking a hard carry. This whole pushing business died in pubs and spec is one of the best late game carries.
Also you get lots of assists easy and they give more money and the games in general go longer which also helps a lot.
Aaaand no one was saying that.
My post awhile back was directed at all the people here and on reddit hiding behind the "icefrog knows best" as their primary argument, rather than you know, an actual argument. So if you threw out "icefrog knows best, I'm sure he's tested this for months and will fix the system if it's broke," you gotta be consistent, can't turn around and start crying about "le reddit ruined icefrog and valve, he was peer pressured into fixing the steaming pile of shit that he didn't want to!!!!"
New numbers are great. Comebacks still possible (as they always were), still more gold than 6.81, but no more -em mode or crazy xp swings in games where you double up on kills.
lucebuce12
Member
One would argue the counter to that is.... not letting him get a 10 min crimson guard.
manfestival
Member
Good luck stopping axe do anything. He goes where he pleases.
Schweinehund
Member
6.76 was greatest patch of all time.
This patch is shaping up to be pretty good though.
;_;
This patch is shaping up to be pretty good though.
;_;
Sgt.Pepper
Banned
It was a short lived patch, but it was fun. GG will draft deathball once again.
Shaman, Razor, DP, Lycan here I come.
Shaman, Razor, DP, Lycan here I come.
I like the current set of numbers for Kills now, but a lot more changes are going to need to be made if they keep the system. I wonder what the community would have a problem with if they didn't change the gold system, people tend to find someone to complain about.
Also, I still feel Vacuum was over nerfed.
I feel deathball is still a lot weaker. Also people tend to overlook the other side of the new gold mechanics. If you are ahead, kills are simply worth less then before.
Also, I still feel Vacuum was over nerfed.
I feel deathball is still a lot weaker. Also people tend to overlook the other side of the new gold mechanics. If you are ahead, kills are simply worth less then before.
Yeah, that's the plan. I'm going to keep an eye out on the shirt to see if it goes on sale again, I think that's the only thing that will make the price tank further. Figure after a few weeks the supply will be limited again and hopefully climb a bit.
If icefraud actually buffed windwaifu maybe I could sell this thing earlier. oh well, steam sales don't come around for a month and a half anyhows.
manfestival said:
AXE GOES!
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