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Dota 2 |OT7| What the fuck have they done

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The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
I really gotta stop queuing All Pick. Just got our asses handed to us by a Beastmaster Luna Drow Venge Lich lineup that we didn't draft against cause only two of the pieces were in place till the last second. They took Rosh right away, rotated to take the T1 mid and there was no recovering after that
 

Hylian7

Member
G2WJJIX.png


Joke build?
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Medallion Silencer though? I feel like there's a billion more things he could have bought as support over a Medallion.

What are these billion other 1000g items? I mean, I personally never build Medallion but there's nothing strictly wrong with picking it up on a support.

Looking at his gold stats, he has about 6000g that went into dying, wards, TPs, whatever, and another 6000 in items. I'm guessing he had a really hard time getting any kind of gold, so Aghs probably seemed too far away. He could've skipped treads to save 950g, but that's about it. He was working on a budget and Medallion is a budget pickup.
 

Hylian7

Member
What are these billion other 1000g items? I mean, I personally never build Medallion but there's nothing strictly wrong with picking it up on a support.

Saving for something a little more expensive, but a little more useful? Like a Force Staff perhaps? I just don't see the point in blowing your money on something you already know is going to be useless just because "You're a support and have no cash."

Wasn't the reason we lost that game, but it was something weird I noticed and worth pointing out.
 

fierro

Banned
It doesn't really which support buys medallion, as long as they use it. Unless it is a 5 position, it would probably be useless by than.
 

Emerson

May contain jokes =>
Is 14.5k like the max possible tower damage in a game? That's my record and I've never come close to matching it.
 

LiQuid!

I proudly and openly admit to wishing death upon the mothers of people I don't like
Godddddddd new PL is the truuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuth!

ed: you gotta take him mid now and gank hard with him by the way. If you're safe farming PL now you fuckin up.
 

Volodja

Member
Saving for something a little more expensive, but a little more useful? Like a Force Staff perhaps? I just don't see the point in blowing your money on something you already know is going to be useless just because "You're a support and have no cash."

Wasn't the reason we lost that game, but it was something weird I noticed and worth pointing out.
This is not how you budget as a support.
Going "I'm gonna save for this item that is more than 2 times the gold I have now" isn't always an option in games where you are not doing very well and it may mean that you are gonna be stuck without a complete item for a long time if things go south, and that shit is awful.
Smaller, cheaper items give you a bit more to work with early on, instead of running around with a staff of wizardry. Now, I usually would go Urn over Medallion, but I don't think it's that terrible, still.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Urn would have been better, especially against those blink heroes.
Theoretically, yes. But in practice, no Blink initiator is going to get Urned before they pull off their combo. And by the time they pulled it off, disabling it would be pointless. Granted, that Medallion didn't do much for their team either, but using Urn as a "counter" to Blink Dagger just doesn't take into account how it's used by the majority of heroes.
Saving for something a little more expensive, but a little more useful? Like a Force Staff perhaps?

Having a 1000g item that can help secure kills now is, generally speaking, better than saving for a 2000g item you're not sure you can get. In between dying, wards, and giving up farm to everyone else, sometimes you have to tighten your belt and settle for a less impactful but still useful item, rather than hold onto a bunch of useless item pieces that don't really do anything sitting in your inventory.

Example, 8 minutes in he had Basilius, 2 Branches and 350g. This is really poverty for a support. Even Naga had brown boots at least, despite having a lower GPM than him.

Brown boots at 9 minutes.
Treads at 13 minutes.
Medallion at 17 minutes.
Ghost Scepter at 27 minutes.
Sange at 47 minutes, at which point the game was over.

Was Medallion a questionable pick up? Sure. But given his item progression, I think Silencer had a pretty good idea early on that he wasn't going to get any kind of farm whatsoever and it turned out to be the right call... just a bit early. He could've gotten a Force Staff, by 23 minutes, but he couldn't have known that. And after Ghost Scepter, he spent 20 minutes buying wards and TPs.

I don't know how well he actually played, but as a support player who frequently finds himself in a position like this, I can't fault a budget pickup like Medallion at all.
 
Saving for something a little more expensive, but a little more useful? Like a Force Staff perhaps? I just don't see the point in blowing your money on something you already know is going to be useless just because "You're a support and have no cash."

Unless you're rolling or have a good farming hero it's very difficult to save up gold like that. There's a reason things like Blink Dagger and Force Staff are a luxury on 5 position players--which he basically was. Force Staff also costs 2.35x as much as a Medallion, which does give a tangible benefit much earlier. A Medallion will help the team much more than a Silencer with 10 extra INT. It's easy to criticize someone getting wacky items as a Solo Support but people don't realize between Wards, Roaming, and inevitable dying, it's really god damn hard to get items and keep them up all the time.

Also, your team comp was crap and your Naga didn't do much. You have 2 split push heroes which means inevitably one of them is going to get screwed, a solo support, and 2 heroes that unless they snowball drop off mid-game. Compared to 2 very good supports for farming and team fights, one of the best pushing mids in the game, and 2 anti-carry hard carries that can farm well and don't need too many items to be effective.
 

sixghost

Member
Saving for something a little more expensive, but a little more useful? Like a Force Staff perhaps? I just don't see the point in blowing your money on something you already know is going to be useless just because "You're a support and have no cash."

Wasn't the reason we lost that game, but it was something weird I noticed and worth pointing out.

Honestly I never have a problem with the 5 position picking up a medallion. It opens up so many opportunities to take rosh even if you don't have a good roshan lineup.
 

Hylian7

Member
Unless you're rolling or have a good farming hero it's very difficult to save up gold like that. There's a reason things like Blink Dagger and Force Staff are a luxury on 5 position players--which he basically was. Force Staff also costs 2.35x as much as a Medallion, which does give a tangible benefit much earlier. A Medallion will help the team much more than a Silencer with 10 extra INT. It's easy to criticize someone getting wacky items as a Solo Support but people don't realize between Wards, Roaming, and inevitable dying, it's really god damn hard to get items and keep them up all the time.

Also, your team comp was crap and your Naga didn't do much. You have 2 split push heroes which means inevitably one of them is going to get screwed, a solo support, and 2 heroes that unless they snowball drop off mid-game. Compared to 2 very good supports for farming and team fights, one of the best pushing mids in the game, and 2 anti-carry hard carries that can farm well and don't need too many items to be effective.
We had a huge advantage early on that was pissed away by nobody getting BKBs quick enough other than me and Viper always off doing who the fuck knows what. I told them at the beginning of the game "Get BKBs", but noooooo, get an Aghanims and Skadi first, what's the worst that can happen?

Earth Spirit falls off, so if the carries aren't doing shit, we are screwed, by the idiots on my team.
 
That feeling when you get stuck between 2 enemies and forced to fight, and end up killing them both with a slither of health left

don't get too close to Axe if you're ranged, bitches
 

bbd23

Member
so thats why I stopped playing ranked.

mode is filled with psychotic south americans that do nothing but shit on team mates all game and feed

back to random draft
 

NBtoaster

Member
Theoretically, yes. But in practice, no Blink initiator is going to get Urned before they pull off their combo. And by the time they pulled it off, disabling it would be pointless. Granted, that Medallion didn't do much for their team either, but using Urn as a "counter" to Blink Dagger just doesn't take into account how it's used by the majority of heroes.

I've been able to urn a Tidehunter I spotted outside our base, which let a pudge hook someone without being counter initiated on. It is a niche use, but I think the heal and damage will generally be more useful than armor reduction anyway.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Duel without passive muting is just so, so awful.

Please Icefraud, save my waifu from the tier trench.
 
Duel without passive muting is just so, so awful.

Please Icefraud, save my waifu from the tier trench.

Oddly enough I've seen an upward swing in LC picks. Always on my team. Always bad. For some reason people love jungle LC these days, which blows my mind because they did nothing to improve that aspect of the hero, and jungle LC always falls behind unless they moonwalk into you at the 7 minute mark with less than 100 HP a few times.
 

Acinixys

Member
Oddly enough I've seen an upward swing in LC picks. Always on my team. Always bad. For some reason people love jungle LC these days, which blows my mind because they did nothing to improve that aspect of the hero, and jungle LC always falls behind unless they moonwalk into you at the 7 minute mark with less than 100 HP a few times.

if someone picks LC and goes to the jungle i insult them till they come lane

LCs jungle is bad bad bad
 

kionedrik

Member
I like to take LC to the offlane. She doesn't need that much farm to be effective and you can be pretty survivable with just a stout shield + basi + PtA.

After hitting 6 I start roaming and getting duel kills. So I guess I play her like Bounty Hunter, except she doesn't fall quite as hard late game like him, assuming you managed to get duel kills in the early/mid game.

It works fairly well if your safe lane farmer can do his job and even if he doesn't you can go into hard carry mode if necessary.
 
I like to take LC to the offlane. She doesn't need that much farm to be effective and you can be pretty survivable with just a stout shield + basi + PtA.

After hitting 6 I start roaming and getting duel kills. So I guess I play her like Bounty Hunter, except she doesn't fall quite as hard late game like him, assuming you managed to get duel kills in the early/mid game.

I think LC Soul Ring is super legit when going offlane. infinite mana and health regen (kinda)
 

G.ZZZ

Member
I think LC Soul Ring is super legit when going offlane. infinite mana and health regen (kinda)

The hero ain't bad in the lane per se, but she'll hardly be a factor in the game after laning if you don't go mid . She need to be ahead in levels/farm to have an impact.
 

kvk1

Member
Ranked matchmaking is a very good indicator for baseline of skill. Anybody below 4.5k is roughly where they belong (give or take 150 points due to standard variation). Above 5.5k is where it becomes an indicator of how often you picked Doom or Tinker.

Stop blaming your teammates. Occasionally they'll play like they're on a touchpad upside-down, but you will never get better if you don't focus on your own mistakes and attempt to minimize them. Control the factors you can control (applies to real life, too).

Stop caring so much about your KDA. Deaths are okay if you can justify them. If you can't justify them, then figure out what went wrong so you die less in the future. Players overuse the phrase “creating space,” but that doesn't mean the term still isn't applicable. Deaths are a necessary part of Dota. Concentrate on winning, not looking good. I mean, just look at Maelk. He dies 20 times in a game, gets 0 kills, ends up winning, AND looks good!

Think outside the box. You'll only get so far copying what's popular. Some builds sound ridiculous. Radiance on Jugg? Orchid on Sniper? Atos on Doom? There's a time and a place for everything. Except for Vanguard. No Vanguard.

http://www.liquiddota.com/forum/dota-2-general/467959-zephyrmerlini-20-20-answers

Well said, officer.
 
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