waxinlyrical
Member
I don't have access to the test client, so apologies for this being a stupid question, but can the enemy not see what you have in your backpack?
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DOTA2 |OT15| anime only please
- Thread starter Artanisix
- Start date
I don't have access to the test client, so apologies for this being a stupid question, but can the enemy not see what you have in your backpack?
D
Deleted member 77995
Unconfirmed Member
You wouldn't keep dust in your backpack due to timer.
Warding rune spots at the start of the game is now more valuable due to finding the real rune plus having 3 bottle charges and not missing as much cs due to shorter travel distance.
Warding rune spots at the start of the game is now more valuable due to finding the real rune plus having 3 bottle charges and not missing as much cs due to shorter travel distance.
Having more time to digest this patch beyond my initial impressions from my stream, here's my thoughts. I'm really curious to see how my opinions change once this thing is out there and people are playing it.
First thing's first: Monkey King, let's get this one out of the way: He's broken. This was to be expected, as this would be the first field testing of a new hero, but he is most definitely broken and some of this will be scaled back. There are a few major issues I immediately see, number one being Boundless Strike's stun and damage, especially with that level 25 Talent. You can clear a Mega Creep wave in one shot with it. Tree Dance has such a short cooldown with no mana cost, and I think this might be a bit broken. While they attempted to offset this by making it cancellable like a Blink, as well as the 4s stun if your tree is cut, I still think that might not be enough. The fact that you can just click and get down without using the mana for Primal Spring seems like a get out of jail free card. I think at the very least, they should make Tree Dance initially cost 50 mana (only the first time), and have Primal Spring cost 50 mana. Jingu Mastery will be a really strong tool for not only lategame, but laning as well. you have 15 seconds to get your 4 hits in, which is pretty long. Mischief sounded and seemed OP at first, but I honestly think it's his most balanced skill. I tried some experimenting with this with Mob, and we discovered a few things about it. If you mouse over the tree/object/whatever he is, it highlights in red like an enemy. You can attack it, cast spells on it, etc. It does not act like a regular tree in that regard. You can still left click him and select him even if you are on the other team. It's a neat visual trick, but definitely not infallable. It's not quite like an illusion trick either, which is why it's an innate ability rather than one of his other skills. Wukong's Command Seems pretty good, that AoE is huge, and I can see good teamfight combinations with this. I can't really say yet if this one is particularly balanced, but so far I feel like this and Mischief are his most balanced spells, it's the other ones i worry about. I like the design of the hero though, and am really glad to see the first hero that is clearly free of WC3 restrictions and made with that in mind.
I was one of the people that ate crow on the Talents thing being fake, and I was very put off by it at first, but I think I am starting to come around. I was initially put off by it mainly because it was a HotS thing, something they did instead of items, but Dota is still very different and the way it's implemented here is good I think. I still feel a bit iffy about them, but I am warming up to it. Some of them seem really strong and give heroes that really didn't gain much of anything by hitting level 25 a ton. One particular example was Enigma being able to get 8 more Eidolons at level 25. The downside to this new system is that stat leveling is gone, which is really going to change some skill builds that relied on taking stats, such as AM going 1-1-1, stats, stats, or Jugg, Wraith King, etc. I'm willing to give talents a chance, and am liking it better as time goes on.
The new UI is just what the doctor ordered, I really like how it allows for more screen real estate but still shows a ton of information. A common complaint which I agree with is the stats not being visible at all times. While I use my Alt key frequently, I still can understand why you would want to see them without that, and I certainly hope that's a change that comes, or at the very least an option. The other issue I have is the breaking of hotkeys for things. I always leveled up by hitting O and then the key of the skill I wanted. Now you can't do that, it does not work anymore. I really hope they restore that functionality, because it will take me a long time to get used to just clicking it. They also got rid of shop hotkeys. The "Shop always uses hotkeys" option does not work anymore, and I am hoping this is a bug, but sadly it's probably more that they don't care because so few people use this option. Otherwise the UI is great, and I love it.
New picking and planning screens are cool, as well as new pregame being very flashy. I really like it.
I feel like the game is headed toward the eradication of UAMs, as so few of them are left. The only item-based ones left are Morbid Mask, MoM, Satanic, Blight Stone, and Desolator. Some of the skill-based ones make sense, and perhaps that's why they are keeping it, but some of them I question why they are still UAMs, such as Caustic Finale. I don't really see a compelling reason for Caustic Finale to be one anymore.
The new Aghs are sick and I think some of them might become viable only if because of the Backpack. Often Aghs was skipped on some heroes because of a slot issue, and needing other items instead. Backpack could be the answer to that depending on the hero. The Backpack is implemented well, and really helps with something I have never particularly cared for in Dota: Disassembling and dropping items. You can still drop items, and may have to in some situations, but there was always so much stuff that relied on it. I personally have always hated setting my items on the ground, because you never know when someone will come up and deny/steal your item, and boom, all your cash down the drain. When I jungle Axe, I avoided dropping my Tranqs, and if I did, I only did when there was no invis around, we had wards on runes, and even then I would stand right on top of them. It also makes picking up Aegis less of a chore if you are running out of slots. I doubt there will ever be a way to calculate this, but I wonder how much gold you will save from not wasting TPs for Aegis/Gem/Rapier/something else. Backpack is another instance of breaking free of WC3 chains. I'm glad to see Dota moving this direction, since that's one of the benefits of being on a new engine and not just a map for another game.
I'm honestly not looking forward to playing against the new Lycan. I've always hated playing against that hero (and never really cared for playing as him), but now the max HP increase on EVERYTHING is going make his "run you over in 10 minutes" game ten times harder to not succumb to because you're going to have more trouble killing anyone or getting rid of creeps fast enough. Maybe he will turn out to be balanced, but so far I am not a fan. I'm sure Anbokr is really enjoying that rework though.
Meepo is one that really went under most radars, full stat sharing without Aghs is a pretty huge deal. Many patches ago it used to be a percentage of stat sharing without Aghs, then nerfed to none, and now full. The tradeoff was Earthbind no longer breaking TPs, but with the stats and his talents, I feel like it might be worth it.
Overall, good patch, and I'm eagerly looking forward to playing it tomorrow. This is easily the largest most different patch I have seen in the 5 years I have been playing Dota.
First thing's first: Monkey King, let's get this one out of the way: He's broken. This was to be expected, as this would be the first field testing of a new hero, but he is most definitely broken and some of this will be scaled back. There are a few major issues I immediately see, number one being Boundless Strike's stun and damage, especially with that level 25 Talent. You can clear a Mega Creep wave in one shot with it. Tree Dance has such a short cooldown with no mana cost, and I think this might be a bit broken. While they attempted to offset this by making it cancellable like a Blink, as well as the 4s stun if your tree is cut, I still think that might not be enough. The fact that you can just click and get down without using the mana for Primal Spring seems like a get out of jail free card. I think at the very least, they should make Tree Dance initially cost 50 mana (only the first time), and have Primal Spring cost 50 mana. Jingu Mastery will be a really strong tool for not only lategame, but laning as well. you have 15 seconds to get your 4 hits in, which is pretty long. Mischief sounded and seemed OP at first, but I honestly think it's his most balanced skill. I tried some experimenting with this with Mob, and we discovered a few things about it. If you mouse over the tree/object/whatever he is, it highlights in red like an enemy. You can attack it, cast spells on it, etc. It does not act like a regular tree in that regard. You can still left click him and select him even if you are on the other team. It's a neat visual trick, but definitely not infallable. It's not quite like an illusion trick either, which is why it's an innate ability rather than one of his other skills. Wukong's Command Seems pretty good, that AoE is huge, and I can see good teamfight combinations with this. I can't really say yet if this one is particularly balanced, but so far I feel like this and Mischief are his most balanced spells, it's the other ones i worry about. I like the design of the hero though, and am really glad to see the first hero that is clearly free of WC3 restrictions and made with that in mind.
I was one of the people that ate crow on the Talents thing being fake, and I was very put off by it at first, but I think I am starting to come around. I was initially put off by it mainly because it was a HotS thing, something they did instead of items, but Dota is still very different and the way it's implemented here is good I think. I still feel a bit iffy about them, but I am warming up to it. Some of them seem really strong and give heroes that really didn't gain much of anything by hitting level 25 a ton. One particular example was Enigma being able to get 8 more Eidolons at level 25. The downside to this new system is that stat leveling is gone, which is really going to change some skill builds that relied on taking stats, such as AM going 1-1-1, stats, stats, or Jugg, Wraith King, etc. I'm willing to give talents a chance, and am liking it better as time goes on.
The new UI is just what the doctor ordered, I really like how it allows for more screen real estate but still shows a ton of information. A common complaint which I agree with is the stats not being visible at all times. While I use my Alt key frequently, I still can understand why you would want to see them without that, and I certainly hope that's a change that comes, or at the very least an option. The other issue I have is the breaking of hotkeys for things. I always leveled up by hitting O and then the key of the skill I wanted. Now you can't do that, it does not work anymore. I really hope they restore that functionality, because it will take me a long time to get used to just clicking it. They also got rid of shop hotkeys. The "Shop always uses hotkeys" option does not work anymore, and I am hoping this is a bug, but sadly it's probably more that they don't care because so few people use this option. Otherwise the UI is great, and I love it.
New picking and planning screens are cool, as well as new pregame being very flashy. I really like it.
I feel like the game is headed toward the eradication of UAMs, as so few of them are left. The only item-based ones left are Morbid Mask, MoM, Satanic, Blight Stone, and Desolator. Some of the skill-based ones make sense, and perhaps that's why they are keeping it, but some of them I question why they are still UAMs, such as Caustic Finale. I don't really see a compelling reason for Caustic Finale to be one anymore.
The new Aghs are sick and I think some of them might become viable only if because of the Backpack. Often Aghs was skipped on some heroes because of a slot issue, and needing other items instead. Backpack could be the answer to that depending on the hero. The Backpack is implemented well, and really helps with something I have never particularly cared for in Dota: Disassembling and dropping items. You can still drop items, and may have to in some situations, but there was always so much stuff that relied on it. I personally have always hated setting my items on the ground, because you never know when someone will come up and deny/steal your item, and boom, all your cash down the drain. When I jungle Axe, I avoided dropping my Tranqs, and if I did, I only did when there was no invis around, we had wards on runes, and even then I would stand right on top of them. It also makes picking up Aegis less of a chore if you are running out of slots. I doubt there will ever be a way to calculate this, but I wonder how much gold you will save from not wasting TPs for Aegis/Gem/Rapier/something else. Backpack is another instance of breaking free of WC3 chains. I'm glad to see Dota moving this direction, since that's one of the benefits of being on a new engine and not just a map for another game.
I'm honestly not looking forward to playing against the new Lycan. I've always hated playing against that hero (and never really cared for playing as him), but now the max HP increase on EVERYTHING is going make his "run you over in 10 minutes" game ten times harder to not succumb to because you're going to have more trouble killing anyone or getting rid of creeps fast enough. Maybe he will turn out to be balanced, but so far I am not a fan. I'm sure Anbokr is really enjoying that rework though.
Meepo is one that really went under most radars, full stat sharing without Aghs is a pretty huge deal. Many patches ago it used to be a percentage of stat sharing without Aghs, then nerfed to none, and now full. The tradeoff was Earthbind no longer breaking TPs, but with the stats and his talents, I feel like it might be worth it.
Overall, good patch, and I'm eagerly looking forward to playing it tomorrow. This is easily the largest most different patch I have seen in the 5 years I have been playing Dota.
shadow2810
Member
MK is pretty sick if you somehow get your hand on a rapier and lv25. Literally 1 boundless strike and am die, even without jingu mastery buff. This guy is much better rapier carrier than ember IMO.
People who are better than me and have played Techies: what do you think? I'm thinking he's slightly better, but has a higher skill cap now. I might lean towards tranqs/force staff so you can better survive blast-off dives, but I could be thinking of it from the wrong angle. Feels like I'll have to play them very differently now.
Also, anyone feel like the new bot AI is extra-dumb? Mine spent the entire time either at the fountain or just wandering around.
Also, anyone feel like the new bot AI is extra-dumb? Mine spent the entire time either at the fountain or just wandering around.
Monochromaticx
Member
i think so..not sure.
yes the bots are totally broken. i thought they would be smart when the went to the new rune spot...but nope.
I think Techies overall got a mega buff honestly and is a viable support.
- Mines are no longer invisible and can't be stacked but they deal much more damage (if you take into account the standard 25% magic resist they deal 168/300/431/562 magic damage instead of 150/190/225/260 physical and they do full damage in the AoE).
They do however have a bigger cd and cost more mana, so perhaps this isn't the skill you'll be maxing first.
Another nice bonus is the fact that they need to be manually attacked and can't be killed with the hatchet.
- Stasis trap can be stacked with the new mines and I'm assuming they are still invisible, so you can be sure to set one of the mines off. Plus @ level 1 they give you enough time to cast a remote bomb and detonate it.
- Blast Off seems like a much better spell than suicide honestly. Big AoE, huge cast range, massive damage and silence. And since it costs 50% of your max HP I'm guessing you can still suicide with it.
- Remote Mines are faster to deploy but have an explosion delay now but overall casting+exploding is faster by 0.25s.
edit: On a completely unrelated subject, Zeus and Skywrath new aghs seem awesome.
- Mines are no longer invisible and can't be stacked but they deal much more damage (if you take into account the standard 25% magic resist they deal 168/300/431/562 magic damage instead of 150/190/225/260 physical and they do full damage in the AoE).
They do however have a bigger cd and cost more mana, so perhaps this isn't the skill you'll be maxing first.
Another nice bonus is the fact that they need to be manually attacked and can't be killed with the hatchet.
- Stasis trap can be stacked with the new mines and I'm assuming they are still invisible, so you can be sure to set one of the mines off. Plus @ level 1 they give you enough time to cast a remote bomb and detonate it.
- Blast Off seems like a much better spell than suicide honestly. Big AoE, huge cast range, massive damage and silence. And since it costs 50% of your max HP I'm guessing you can still suicide with it.
- Remote Mines are faster to deploy but have an explosion delay now but overall casting+exploding is faster by 0.25s.
edit: On a completely unrelated subject, Zeus and Skywrath new aghs seem awesome.
Monochromaticx
Member
so bots are broken and the game wont let me load into the hero select screen for mm -_-
Talents are literally just stats until 25 then it's a new skill. I don't see the big deal. They're certainly more interesting than plain stats and pretty non-offensive. Jungle being nerfed but having FOUR bounty runes instead of 1 each 2 minutes and an additional ancient camp will probably mean that average GPM will stay the same, and favor a bit heroes who can't farm camps as well.
I'd like to play a bit on the new patch but my pc is broken and i don't want to spend like 800$ just to play some games of dota.
I'd like to play a bit on the new patch but my pc is broken and i don't want to spend like 800$ just to play some games of dota.
I really hope they stick with the new UI. I like it.
Fuck those reddit "I want a new UI that is the old one" posts.
Ironic reaction compared to the status bar. "You just had to click the hero to see the duration".
Well, you just have to press alt to see useless shit like KDA and CS. Only the HP/MP bar at the top should be always in vision.
Fuck those reddit "I want a new UI that is the old one" posts.
Ironic reaction compared to the status bar. "You just had to click the hero to see the duration".
Well, you just have to press alt to see useless shit like KDA and CS. Only the HP/MP bar at the top should be always in vision.
I was messing around in bot mode to explore the map plus see some of the changes and yeah the bots seemed mostly broken.
The Sniper bot had his Dragon Lance and Yasha I think it was in his backpack, mean while his actual inventory was full of tangos, ironwood branches and other random stuff. So it doesn't seem to know how to use the backpack at all. Mean while I did notice what you mentioned where the path finding would just occasionally bug out and it would walk back and forth on a spot not doing anything remotely useful even if an enemy was near by attacking someone.
Wok
Member
Or heroes with lots of mobility such as NP. Aha! All the bounty runes are mine!
Those things are tangos you use them to eat any tree to regen health over time.
Yeah it does put you in chat with other from your city, always found that a bit weird personally.
Imagine starting when there was no tutorial I used to get flamed so hard for not knowing how shop/items worked
shira
Member
Imp the Dimp
Member
Is the patch expected to go live on the main client today?
Those things are tangos you use them to eat any tree to regen health over time.
Yeah it does put you in chat with other from your city, always found that a bit weird personally.
Imagine starting when there was no tutorial I used to get flamed so hard for not knowing how shop/items worked
It is weird, better be careful who i be toxic to. Could be my neighbor
jk
Yeah, I imagine it will go live around 5pm GMT today.
shira
Member
When I first started Purge videos helped a lot in terms of understanding the basic mechanics. They should be very outdated by now, especially considering a new big patch is nigh, but they should still be helpful in a lot of ways.
Other than that, I'm sure you can just type Dota 2 Newbie tips or Starter guide or whatever and find a ton of content, video or any other format.
misses bull
Banned
I think new techies sounds boring as fuck. At least the new necro seems really good.
Oh yea I get to go back to spamming lycan again.
Oh yea I get to go back to spamming lycan again.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Why is your clock set for December 13th when the website says December 12th?
Dude playing with Waga yesterday said he was having a ball playing new Techies, so there's that.
misses bull
Banned
I haven't watched any dota videos besides the map changes and ability changes so I haven't watched someone play the hero yet and I'm going off my incredibly biased opinion.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Fair enough. I've not played techies for a day in my life, but I thought I'd mention that someone DID say they were enjoying themselves. Take that as you will, of course.
Dreams-Visions
Member
yea i like his 25 tree.
misses bull
Banned
Bash seems pretty powerful but I haven't gotten to 25 many times as sb.
Just played a game as spirit breaker and the +17% bash is so good. Good luck getting away once I have charged your ass.
I really like the -respawn time on him as well.
I really like this patch so far out of the 3 games I have played so many changes it is actually sort of like Dota 3. Oh well they have sucked me RIGHT back in!
the more i listen to MK's voice the more I dislike it
the spirit breaker charge speed talent is hilarious, same with puck's distance/speed on q talent
Same voice actor as Riki right? Sounds very similar
Monochromaticx
Member
the more i listen to MK's voice the more I dislike it
the spirit breaker charge speed talent is hilarious, same with puck's distance/speed on q talent
they changed the voice actor right? its not the high noon dude
yeah i think it's riki's VA. It definitely does not sound like Matthew Mercer, he kinda sounds the same in all games I've heard him in, unless he has some insane range
Brood being able to have 20% cdr and +8 max webs AND her ult no longer being dispelled is a game changer imo
You get that +xpm talent instead of +10 agi and you get to level 25 ez. I think with 16 webs you can cover the entire enemy jungle + up to their rax?
why not the +17 bash chance? 34% bash chance
You get that +xpm talent instead of +10 agi and you get to level 25 ez. I think with 16 webs you can cover the entire enemy jungle + up to their rax?
I miss the SB when you could not stop his ult
They should've put that as a lvl 25 talent instead of the Dota IMBA charge speed.
why not the +17 bash chance? 34% bash chance
Absolutely not. Staff Stun is once every 30s. Ember rapier can potentially ranpage every 6? seconds.
I also think the tree jump is balanced. No mana cost is offset by the blink cooldown. Its a very unreliable escape unless you use your stun defensively.
His ultimate has such a huge cast time too.
I had a MK on my team last game, spent 80% of the time on top of trees, I am sure that is not the way you should play him is it?
I would always get the +17 bash chance anyway tbh.
At lunch I played a game, got to lvl 25 and the +17% was so insane.
I would always get the +17 bash chance anyway tbh.
At lunch I played a game, got to lvl 25 and the +17% was so insane.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Yes, it is. Brood is going to be a terror again and should be able to cover almost half the map in webs.
shira
Member
There ought to be a cosmetic for thatI miss the SB when you could not stop his ult
They should've put that as a lvl 25 talent instead of the Dota IMBA charge speed.
misses bull
Banned
Brood has been a shit hero for so long I'm so happy
D
Deleted member 77995
Unconfirmed Member
Crystal Maiden aghs is probably the most relevant change from the scepters. A lot of them like Slark's sound ridiculous but don't fit in his build or are really impractical, like Bounty's.
rakkadakka
Member
I miss the SB when you could not stop his ult
Go away.
I think it's a shit upgrade, perhaps one of the worst aghs in the game honestly. Good luck channeling your ult for 2.5s and being able to keep people inside it for that long in order to proc the frostbite.
Midnight Pulse says hello.
you can shadowblade and then put your shadowblade in your backpack and still be invis :^)
I forgot enigma existed
I forgot enigma existed
I like the LD talents although they feel 100% like an easy decision. Why would you ever go + range instead of +hp?
Make the +bear dmg one give more dmg, cause its pretty underhelwing when other heroes get way more. Entangle +1.5 sec 100% over -10 sec cd on savage roar. Gives entangle nearly 100% uptime and much stronger since bkb piercing and with how much root was buffed.
Apart from the radiance changes that made it better on druid, the mask of madness change thats cool as well imo, the small buff to mjollnir which was only relevant if you went lifesteal on the bear, and the small buff on human transformation I really don't like the other changes on druid.
Ult transform no longer disjoint which pisses me off. AC attack speed nerfed, hurts the bear, no attack speed on mkb which hurts the bear, abyssal block chance reduced, STILL can't consume moonshard on the bear.
Like, why not do what bulldog said and give the bear at level 2 a passive oov since the item was great on the bear but you ran out of slots for it lategame.
Only other indirect buff is that brew's W no longer has double duration on creeps which was bugged for the bear so you'd get 12 sec duration, but they never fixed it.
I dunno how I feel about all of this.
Other thing: https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/5hvzkz/next_hero_easter_egg_in_700_seems_like_it/
Pretty much confirms next hero water spirit or w/e
Jakiro, WR, Storm spirit, Ember, Lina, etc.
Also jumping to trees doesn't disjoint projectiles and i've been knocked off of trees by stuff like drow silence. I think its his most balanced ability with how easy it is to counterplay it.
Make the +bear dmg one give more dmg, cause its pretty underhelwing when other heroes get way more. Entangle +1.5 sec 100% over -10 sec cd on savage roar. Gives entangle nearly 100% uptime and much stronger since bkb piercing and with how much root was buffed.
Apart from the radiance changes that made it better on druid, the mask of madness change thats cool as well imo, the small buff to mjollnir which was only relevant if you went lifesteal on the bear, and the small buff on human transformation I really don't like the other changes on druid.
Ult transform no longer disjoint which pisses me off. AC attack speed nerfed, hurts the bear, no attack speed on mkb which hurts the bear, abyssal block chance reduced, STILL can't consume moonshard on the bear.
Like, why not do what bulldog said and give the bear at level 2 a passive oov since the item was great on the bear but you ran out of slots for it lategame.
Only other indirect buff is that brew's W no longer has double duration on creeps which was bugged for the bear so you'd get 12 sec duration, but they never fixed it.
I dunno how I feel about all of this.
Other thing: https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/5hvzkz/next_hero_easter_egg_in_700_seems_like_it/
Pretty much confirms next hero water spirit or w/e
Jakiro, WR, Storm spirit, Ember, Lina, etc.
Also jumping to trees doesn't disjoint projectiles and i've been knocked off of trees by stuff like drow silence. I think its his most balanced ability with how easy it is to counterplay it.