Doug Bowser - "some people...may not be able to afford [the Switch 2's] price point. That's why we wanted to make the other Switch platforms available

Deerock71 said:
They're just the best there is, that's all. Opinions.
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There are subjective truths and objective truths.
You THINK they are the best, I THINK they are not. Those are subjective truths/opinions.
Objective truths are:
Nintendo sells very obsolete consoles, at premium prices.
Nintendo games lack high production values in many fields, and they are sold at premium prices.
Nintendo Switch 2 games are in line with what Nintendo has been doing for decades now. And they want to charge even more for these obsolete products with low production values.

You like to pay for those products premium prices and you get your kicks out of them, that's all good, it's your money i couldn't care less. But saying that they are the best there is. That is nonsense, I won't accept that as a universal truth, because they clearly aren't. They sell a lot of games? you bet.
 
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Matsuchezz said:
There are subjective truths and objective truths.
You THINK they are the best, I THINK they are not. Those are subjective truths/opinions.
Objective truths are:
Nintendo sells very obsolete consoles, at premium prices.
Nintendo games lack high production values in many fields, and they are sold at premium prices.
Nintendo Switch 2 games are in line with what Nintendo has been doing for decades now. And they want to charge even more for these obsolete products with low production values.

You like to pay for those products premium prices and you get your kicks out of them, that's all good, it's your money i couldn't care less. But saying that they are the best there is. That is nonsense, I won't accept that as a universal truth, because they clearly aren't. They sell a lot of games? you bet.
Click to expand...
That's your opinion.
 
Matsuchezz said:
There are subjective truths and objective truths.
You THINK they are the best, I THINK they are not. Those are subjective truths/opinions.
Objective truths are:
Nintendo sells very obsolete consoles, at premium prices.
Nintendo games lack high production values in many fields, and they are sold at premium prices.
Nintendo Switch 2 games are in line with what Nintendo has been doing for decades now. And they want to charge even more for these obsolete products with low production values.

You like to pay for those products premium prices and you get your kicks out of them, that's all good, it's your money i couldn't care less. But saying that they are the best there is. That is nonsense, I won't accept that as a universal truth, because they clearly aren't. They sell a lot of games? you bet.
Click to expand...

SW2 is not obsolete, it actually performs much better than a Steam Deck.

Just because the games are not walking simulators with cutting edge graphics doesn't mean they're are not amazing, see Developers going wild at Tears of the Kingdom physics and other systems implemented. This also happened with BOTW. Being pretty doesn't mean the game has good mechanics or is fun to play, see Horizon FW for example, beautiful game that bored me to no end.

Your following statement is trollish, Nintendo are the ones consistently putting out some of the best games ever, every single gen, and this is not an opinion, it's a fact. You don't have to like it tho.
 
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Seeing a lot of people handwaive the price of the console as not a big deal but claim the $80 game price is the real problem. It's the other way around. If people have no problem paying $60-70 for nintendo games, $80 is not going to be a dealbreaker. It only seems ridiculous because it was nintendo who was the first to raise prices.

But $450 entry price WILL lock a lot of switch 1 customers out. This is the same price as a ps5. This is the first time a portable has cost the same as the home console competing with it. Clearly nintendo knows this as well, which is why they are saying this.
 
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Ebrietas said:
But $450 entry price WILL lock a lot of switch 1 customers out. This is the same price as a ps5. This is the first time a portable has cost the same as the home console competing with it. Clearly nintendo knows this as well, which is why they are saying this.
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Glad I'm not the only one who sees this. I feel like I'm living in a different timeline with all these people saying $450 is "okay". $450 for a console that is around the same performance as a PS4 Pro, has mediocre storage and will almost certainly require the investment of a microSD Express card (a minimum of $50 for 128gb at console launch), with no pack in games but a tech demo they want $10 for, and will be the objectively worst place to play years-old third party games on all of the current gen consoles?

When I can buy a disk-drive PS5 slim Astro Bot bundle right now for $449.99?? Off sale, the digital console Astro Bot bundle is $450 and the disk console bundle is $500. The price of Switch 2 games is just the whipped topping on the total shit pie. The price point ensures that only the most hardcore of the Nintendo faithful buy it and prices it out of the family market that Nintendo has generally targeted.
 
Nydius said:
Glad I'm not the only one who sees this. I feel like I'm living in a different timeline with all these people saying $450 is "okay". $450 for a console that is around the same performance as a PS4 Pro, has mediocre storage and will almost certainly require the investment of a microSD Express card (a minimum of $50 for 128gb at console launch), with no pack in games but a tech demo they want $10 for, and will be the objectively worst place to play years-old third party games on all of the current gen consoles?

When I can buy a disk-drive PS5 slim Astro Bot bundle right now for $449.99?? Off sale, the digital console Astro Bot bundle is $450 and the disk console bundle is $500. The price of Switch 2 games is just the whipped topping on the total shit pie. The price point ensures that only the most hardcore of the Nintendo faithful buy it and prices it out of the family market that Nintendo has generally targeted.
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And the cherry on top is that those expensive Nintendo games don't go on sale that much. Even years down the road, a new copy will be 30-40% off tops if not 25%. And this makes the $80 / $90 (physical) pricing even more concerning.

And now throw in joycons for $90 that STILL don't have Hall effect sticks.
 
What an idiot. You can believe this, but don't say it. There can still be great canes on an old platform after the launch of a new one. There were a lot of great games released on the NES and SNES after the next platform launched. However, I don't think that's as common nowadays.
 
K' Dash said:
SW2 is not obsolete, it actually performs much better than a Steam Deck.

Just because the games are not walking simulators with cutting edge graphics doesn't mean they're are not amazing, see Developers going wild at Tears of the Kingdom physics and other systems implemented. This also happened with BOTW. Being pretty doesn't mean the game has good mechanics or is fun to play, see Horizon FW for example, beautiful game that bored me to no end.

Your following statement is trollish, Nintendo are the ones consistently putting out some of the best games ever, every single gen, and this is not an opinion, it's a fact. You don't have to like it tho.
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You haven't experienced the Switch 2 and you state that it performs better than Steamdeck. Alright I think i will trust your own experience with the thing.
I have tried Nintendo games, I was a huge Nintendo fan when I was a kid and a teenager, I had NES, SNES, N64 and bougth an NGC at the end of its lifecycle. And since then I have tried Nintendo games, here and there. They are fun in their way, but far from being amazing. They feel and look so oudated and plain. I bought a Switch when it was released and I bought Mario and Zelda games. I could not bear the sight of them. Sold them a few weeks later.
There is a weird thing outthere that some people believe that Nintendo's the only game creator which is the sole owner of fun games, and their fun is magical and untouched. I think that Nintendo Magazines used to brainwash their fans with these notions that the other companies only try to copy them and they all fall short of doing it.

They have innovated in games, that is a fact. But they are way behind in a lot of technologies within games, that still make them feel outdated. Their online gaming and infrastructure is not premium at all. Their storage technology is not premium at all. Their animation is not premium. Their kiddie/familiy oriented games are geared towards children that do not know better about these things. And their games are suitable for them and families, if you are having a blast with your children, it's alright and cool. But let's not pretend they are the greatest of all time.

Yesterday, I was playing Mario Kart on Switch with my girlfriend's, her little nephew was kind enough to lent her the thing, while we had a little fun, the graphics just made me cringe.
It's like a flashback to the past where things were not that great.
The last time Nintendo won a game of the year award was with Breath of the wild back in 2017.
 
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Matsuchezz said:
There are subjective truths and objective truths.
You THINK they are the best, I THINK they are not. Those are subjective truths/opinions.
Objective truths are:
Nintendo sells very obsolete consoles, at premium prices.
Nintendo games lack high production values in many fields, and they are sold at premium prices.
Nintendo Switch 2 games are in line with what Nintendo has been doing for decades now. And they want to charge even more for these obsolete products with low production values.

You like to pay for those products premium prices and you get your kicks out of them, that's all good, it's your money i couldn't care less. But saying that they are the best there is. That is nonsense, I won't accept that as a universal truth, because they clearly aren't. They sell a lot of games? you bet.
Click to expand...


Switch 2 is not obsolete nor priced premium relative to the handheld space.

If we want to state actual objective truths - game prices (and entertainment prices in general, for that matter) have never correlated to "production values" or budget. Not sure why we would expect them to now.

Also not sure when low(er) production values equated to obsolete. Balatro was one of the best games of last year and had practically no production value. Sony makes some of the highest production value games in existence and many of them are absolute snoozefests.

What a braindead line of logic.
 
I find it hard the believe that the software copies would cost $80 to make. There has to be a huge markup.
 
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Tg89 said:
Switch 2 is not obsolete nor priced premium relative to the handheld space.

If we want to state actual objective truths - game prices (and entertainment prices in general, for that matter) have never correlated to "production values" or budget. Not sure why we would expect them to now.

Also not sure when low(er) production values equated to obsolete. Balatro was one of the best games of last year and had practically no production value. Sony makes some of the highest production value games in existence and many of them are absolute snoozefests.

What a braindead line of logic.
Click to expand...
Balatro costs 15 dollars or less. And it's an indie game. If they were charging 70 or 80 dollars that would be a rip off.
Nintendo is a HW manufacturer, earns billions of dollars every year and are fully capable of creating high production value games. They are not doing that and charging like if they were doing it.
There is a lot of backslash online about their new game prices. If you are on denial, that's on you. People are not happy.
I agree that Sony creates games that are not fun to me as well. But those which are fun to me and I like a lot are way more advanced, pretty and full of great shit that make the whole experience awesome!

I remember what a blast I had with legend of Zelda Ocarina of time when it was released, and I hated that it didn't have voice over in it, that could have enhanced the experience a lot with great acting after experienced Metal Gear Solid, that the acting made the game fucking awesome! And Miyamoto always told us a lame excuse for not include such stuff, but it was obvious they didn t want to spend money on it. Which is a policy still remains.

Their vision of gaming is obsolete, and it shows! They just want to make money with bare minimum effort.
 
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Nydius said:
Glad I'm not the only one who sees this. I feel like I'm living in a different timeline with all these people saying $450 is "okay". $450 for a console that is around the same performance as a PS4 Pro, has mediocre storage and will almost certainly require the investment of a microSD Express card (a minimum of $50 for 128gb at console launch), with no pack in games but a tech demo they want $10 for, and will be the objectively worst place to play years-old third party games on all of the current gen consoles?

When I can buy a disk-drive PS5 slim Astro Bot bundle right now for $449.99?? Off sale, the digital console Astro Bot bundle is $450 and the disk console bundle is $500. The price of Switch 2 games is just the whipped topping on the total shit pie. The price point ensures that only the most hardcore of the Nintendo faithful buy it and prices it out of the family market that Nintendo has generally targeted.
Click to expand...

You make very valid points but the reality is you can't play brand new Nintendo games outside of owning the Switch 2 when it releases.

I don't think the price of the console and games will stop people from buying it, I do think they will not get the same success they had with the Switch 1 but they probably knew that and decided to stick with the current prices in order to make a specific amount of profit.

People want better hardware and more advanced games but they don't expect to pay premium prices which makes no sense. This is the same confusing thinking people showed with the PS5 pro's price.

At the end of the day, the market is always going to decide and if the prices are too high it will flop and they will change course.
 
Krathoon said:
I find it hard the believe that the software would cost $80 to make. There has to be a huge markup.
Click to expand...
There is, lets not forget salaries in japan are way lower vs US/western europe, so those japanese dev studios can be much larger and are still much cheaper upkeep wise.
I can understand even 20usd markup when it comes to physical games coz of those micro ssd cards switch 2 gonna use, but 0 reason for any digital switch2 game to be over 60.

They just overcharge digital coz they can, same way sony does with their prices in playstation store here in europe, that are crazy high digital even compared to physical ones.

Here example: ps5 AC:S 349pln aka 89,43 usd
www.playstation.com

Assassin's Creed Shadows - PS5 Games | PlayStation

Become a lethal shinobi Assassin and a powerful legendary samurai in Assassin's Creed Shadows.
www.playstation.com www.playstation.com

VS retail physical ps5 AC:S for 259pln aka 66,4 usd
www.ultima.pl

Assassin's Creed Shadows PL/ANG

Przeżyj niesamowitą historyczną, pełną akcji przygodę rozgrywającą się w feudalnej Japonii
www.ultima.pl
 
"During a recent interview with Japanese economic website Toyo Keizai, ever-charming Ken Kutaragi had this to say about Sony's goal for the PS3: "for consumers to think to themselves 'I will work more hours to buy one'."
 
Krathoon said:
With the game. I would like to see how how many carts they have to sell to break even.
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Nintendo games usually are pretty cheap to make compared to other devs, so even if carts are more expensive than discs, i dont think they need to sell a ton to make a profit.
 
It is getting silly because the games are now costing a large chunk of the console cost. The media is not suppost to get that high.
 
This is why exclusivity is key for the brand's strength. The only reason why Nintendo can get away with these prices is being exclusive. It's crazy how much it impacts people's perception.

At the end of the day, you can only play those on a Nintendo console and there isn't a clear alternative product.
 
Short term they will sell out of stock, but the prices will not be sustainable long term and that isn't even taking into account potential price inceases because of tariffs. In no world is a $599.99 Switch 2 with up to $80 games going to result in a successful console generation for Nintendo. They will have to drop the price sooner than later and by a lot.
 
Angry_Megalodon said:
This is why exclusivity is key for the brand's strength. The only reason why Nintendo can get away with these prices is being exclusive. It's crazy how much it impacts people's perception.

At the end of the day, you can only play those on a Nintendo console and there isn't a clear alternative product.
Click to expand...

There is still a limit how much you can ask people to pay for your product, exclusives or not. They will alienate many families who supported them during the original Switch lifespan.
 
Angry_Megalodon said:
This is why exclusivity is key for the brand's strength. The only reason why Nintendo can get away with these prices is being exclusive. It's crazy how much it impacts people's perception.

At the end of the day, you can only play those on a Nintendo console and there isn't a clear alternative product.
Click to expand...
we dont even know if they ll be able to get away with these prices, it was the same thing when 3DS was to be launch, Nintendo fans on internet coped a lot, saying that it was fair price and all this shit, but in the day to day market Nintendo had to lower the price in 30% since ppl wasnt buy it.

i have no doubts that SW2 ll sell well initially , but, it ll be enough for Nintendo ? it ll continue to sell when on the upcoming months ? or we ll see a heavy price cut before the first year ?

Also, if you are not "fomoing" you can probably play Nintendo on PC some years from now.
 
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ItsGreat said:
What's the mistake? Saying you have other options available?
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Mistake is the PR disaster these guys do.

Other available option ? How about not buy the system ? Or buy the system but no game at high price of 90$ for a fucking physical game ?

Plenty of options to pick from. No reason to just follow paid youtubers and influencers like a cow ( not you , speaking in general )

If you are ok with paying 90$ for a game, by all means go for it. But know that you are enabling this behavior and if it sticks, you are encouraging more of this greed.

Not saying I am perfect. I spend 3300$ CAD on a video card alone so I am part of the problem.

But to me 90$ for a physical game ( and sometimes there is no game just key ) is a fucking no go . Specially if it's coming from Nintendo. Those guys are known to shut down servers after few years of the new gen . Didn't they shut down WII U last year and 3DS before that ?
How am I ok to be 80$ for a game that I know I won't be playing for nostalaga if I wanted.

Imagine this, I can still play super Mario on SNES and I won't be able to play Mario kart world 15 years from now.

The idea of online library for Nintendo is not the same as PC.

In PC if steam or any company try to fuck around with you, they will be eliminated from the existence when everyone and their mother pirate their games and no one buys shit from the company if decided to pull some shit like turning steam offline etc.

On Nintendo console what can you do ? ? Yeah nothing but lose your money .

No thank you.
 
Angry_Megalodon said:
This is why exclusivity is key for the brand's strength. The only reason why Nintendo can get away with these prices is being exclusive. It's crazy how much it impacts people's perception.

At the end of the day, you can only play those on a Nintendo console and there isn't a clear alternative product.
Click to expand...

Yes, but it can't only be exclusives, look at the Wii U. The novelty of the Wii faded and the 1st party library of Wii U was not enough to support the platform. You need to have compelling 3rd party support and compelling enough hardware.
 
Remember when we all thought we had to worry about arrogant Sony if XB left the console space?

Animated GIF
 
Hyet said:
Sony did that while there wasn't a trade war in the making with crazy tariffs flying around. I don't see why Nintendo can't do that, specially when their first party games won't jump to PC.
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I suppose. Not like people buy Nintendo for UE5 powered, raytraced evetrhing. I was just more thinking about a future argument people will make about it being held by it's predecessor.
 
//DEVIL// said:
Mistake is the PR disaster these guys do.

Other available option ? How about not buy the system ? Or buy the system but no game at high price of 90$ for a fucking physical game ?

Plenty of options to pick from. No reason to just follow paid youtubers and influencers like a cow ( not you , speaking in general )

If you are ok with paying 90$ for a game, by all means go for it. But know that you are enabling this behavior and if it sticks, you are encouraging more of this greed.

Not saying I am perfect. I spend 3300$ CAD on a video card alone so I am part of the problem.

But to me 90$ for a physical game ( and sometimes there is no game just key ) is a fucking no go . Specially if it's coming from Nintendo. Those guys are known to shut down servers after few years of the new gen . Didn't they shut down WII U last year and 3DS before that ?
How am I ok to be 80$ for a game that I know I won't be playing for nostalaga if I wanted.

Imagine this, I can still play super Mario on SNES and I won't be able to play Mario kart world 15 years from now.

The idea of online library for Nintendo is not the same as PC.

In PC if steam or any company try to fuck around with you, they will be eliminated from the existence when everyone and their mother pirate their games and no one buys shit from the company if decided to pull some shit like turning steam offline etc.

On Nintendo console what can you do ? ? Yeah nothing but lose your money .

No thank you.
Click to expand...

If the DRM is still in place when Steam dies you'll have nothing to play in 15 years….

Unless of course there's an underground army of devoted nerds ready to create ways to archive and play the old games like there is for pretty much every video game every made.
 
It's not really the same though, is it... Mattrick was being a condescending cunt when he said what he said. Bowser said it clumsily, but we ALL know what he's saying when you see and read it in its full context. Silly, yes. But comparable to Mattrick? No way.
 
Ebrietas said:
Seeing a lot of people handwaive the price of the console as not a big deal but claim the $80 game price is the real problem. It's the other way around. If people have no problem paying $60-70 for nintendo games, $80 is not going to be a dealbreaker. It only seems ridiculous because it was nintendo who was the first to raise prices.

But $450 entry price WILL lock a lot of switch 1 customers out. This is the same price as a ps5. This is the first time a portable has cost the same as the home console competing with it. Clearly nintendo knows this as well, which is why they are saying this.
Click to expand...
PS4 before the Switch 1 launch (NSW launch price: $300):
3192754-ps4.jpg


End result:
oZOanIE.jpeg


People have short memory.

SegaSnatcher said:
"During a recent interview with Japanese economic website Toyo Keizai, ever-charming Ken Kutaragi had this to say about Sony's goal for the PS3: "for consumers to think to themselves 'I will work more hours to buy one'."
Click to expand...
PS3's $600 launch price in 2006 is equivalent to roughly $950 today.
The irony is that even at that price Sony was losing a lot of money per unit sold.
Krazy Ken.
 
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ItsGreat said:
If the DRM is still in place when Steam dies you'll have nothing to play in 15 years….

Unless of course there's an underground army of devoted nerds ready to create ways to archive and play the old games like there is for pretty much every video game every made.
Click to expand...
90% if not all games remove the drm after a while because it costs them money to keep to a point where it's no longer an option. check old games 99% chance probably you will find a DRM free copy in fitgirl or whatever popular site on Reddit these days.

and as you said, plenty of people will people will create ways.

In fact, I believe Steam kind of hinted, or at least I read somewhere a long time ago that if they went down, the games would be Steam DRM-free.

If Switch 2 never got hacked, you are doomed.

with that being said. this is not a reason not to buy the system. it's not like we buy it to hack it. i am interested in one and probably day one because of Mario Kart. but if I don't get one, I'll pull every stop to buy it. i am not ok with the policy and anti-consumer shit they are doing.

between 90$ a game just so they can give me a digital encrypted code on that piece of plastic and charge me 10$ over an 80$ game is just stupid crazy.

ill most probably just buy the games that has the full game on disc. or wait for it used. I'll not give Nintendo my money for a physical game that has no game. I don't support this practice with Xbox or PlayStation games either.

but at least with xbox and playstation they are not charging 10 fucking $ ( 15% Canadian over digital ). and still wouldnt support it.

if i am buying physical games, it's for preservation or nostalgia of a game I love so much and I want to keep in my collection. to this day I have games like Metal Gear Solid 4 on PS3 limited edition, God of War 3 remastered on PS4, shadow of C on PS4, etc.
 
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reinking said:
It's not just about the cost, it's the attitude and other stuff that goes with it.

..but yep, I am guessing PS5 Pro prices for the PS6 (if not higher due to the global economy in a few years).
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yeah, I mean...if this is what 450 buys these days......what does how much does a console that we would consider truly next gen cost in a couple years, given the current infation and tarrif BS? we might be looking at 750 dollar consoles.
 
Gambit2483 said:
Context matters. Matterick was defending a BS policy about making a console that had Mandatory internet checks just for you to use it. This screwed over people who would buy the system and be overseas or somewhere with no internet. It was a shit policy.

This is people complaining they have to pay more for a new console as if this is a crazy outlandish idea.
Click to expand...

Yep. Just a loud minority of gamers being entitled.

Bears continue to be Roman Catholic, and the Pope still shits in the woods.
 
StereoVsn said:
"It still cost more than the PS4. And didn't Sony recently INCREASE the price of PS5?

The days of a console costing the same as the old console or decreasing in price are long gone. But sure let's just add complaint #35296 to the list. I'm sure tomorrow GAF will find 10 more things to bitch and whine about."

??? You started talking about Sony being more expensive. I brought this up? Then you started talking about Sony not having physical media and not owning games.

You aren't an LLM model with low token context. It's not that hard to remember your own reply from a page or so back.

As to the Switch, the conversation was about optics of Bowser's statement as well price discrepancies in different regions. Tell me why Switch in US (before tariffs since according to Bowser tariffs weren't priced in) costs about 20% more vs EU ($ weakness is very recent) and 30% more vs JP.
Click to expand...
I brought up Sony to make a point, then you kept bringing up BS arguments about Sony and their digital only system that had nothing to do with my initial point then ask me to stop talking about Sony...After YOU keep bringing it up 😂

But ok whatever 🙄 and as some (even former Nintendo employees) have suggested the $450 price of Switch 2 has a $50 baked in tariff protection in the event that tariffs held or slightly increased, which unfortunately they GREATLY increased.

Nintendo already tried to brace for the costs of tariffs with that $450 price, they just aren't ever going to admit it as that would be a PR nightmare if they have to increase the price Again (twice).
 
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Gambit2483 said:
I brought up Sony to make a point, then you kept bringing up BS arguments about Sony and their digital only system that had nothing to do with my initial point then ask me to stop talking about Sony...After YOU keep bringing it up 😂

But ok whatever 🙄 and as some (even former Nintendo employees) have suggested the $450 price of Switch 2 has a $50 baked in tariff protection in the event that tariffs held or slightly increased, which unfortunately they GREATLY increased.

Nintendo already tried to brace for the costs of tariffs with that $450 price, they just aren't ever going to admit it as that would be a PR nightmare if they have to increase the price Again (twice).
Click to expand...
You brought up Sony first, kept bringing up Sony and now it was completely different topic? What?

And no, Nintendo management already came out and said that $450 price doesn't include any tariff buffers.
 
To really beat these game companies, you have to play the waiting game.

It is just annoying because you want the cool stuff now.

It is like you get penalized for being impatient.
 
I am baffled by the decisions & the PR disasters Nintendo are doing to themselves now, this is absolutely unacceptable lmao, we literally have Don Mattrick 2.0 moment, I have never seen as much negativity & consumers enraged by a console launch since Xbox One DRM era. Wow!
 
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