ThoseDeafMutes
Member
X-Frame said:
How is it that Assassin's Creed can simultaneously look better but also have so much more on screen happening?
I'm sure it's just voodoo and it's actually impossible for the consoles to do that.
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Dragon Age II |OT| The Revenge of Shit Mountain
- Thread starter EviLore
- Start date
How is it that Assassin's Creed can simultaneously look better but also have so much more on screen happening?
I'm sure it's just voodoo and it's actually impossible for the consoles to do that.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Okay, so I was banned when I finished this game, so I never got a chance to post my thoughts.
I have gone through this weird arc with DA2
I was angry at the decisions, then found them hilarious, then played the game, accepted the design decisions, kind of liked the game, then got bored of it, then disliked it, and now I am angry at the actual game.
Which is probably not the reaction any game developer wants. It's just so undeniably rushed in a way that hurts the fundamental game design. I am one of the few people really liked Assassin's Creed 2 but wasn't really feeling Brotherhood because it felt rushed, but I'll freely admit the core of the game was still good. I can't make that argument for DA2, because the places it chose to cut corners (dungeon design, unique art assets, several story scenes) made it feel like a worse game.
I dunno. I don't think I came in with overly high expectations and I could maybe buy the argument I was prejudiced against the game from the beginning if I weren't enjoying it for the first six or so hours (before the repetition set in). I just get the feeling once Dragon Age 3 rolls around (
), people from Bioware will freely talk about how rushed this game was as if it were never released, defended, and sold for $60.
The more distance I get from it, the more I realize....it's not a good game. And it's a game where the developer just does not understand why it's not good. They know it's rushed, but I think Bioware has convinced themselves that "not enough time" is the only problem with it.
I just...I really wish I had been wrong about this game and I loved it as much as I loved Origins. It wasn't the kind of bad I was expecting, but it was bad all the same, and I feel almost crushed due to that fact.
I have gone through this weird arc with DA2
I was angry at the decisions, then found them hilarious, then played the game, accepted the design decisions, kind of liked the game, then got bored of it, then disliked it, and now I am angry at the actual game.
Which is probably not the reaction any game developer wants. It's just so undeniably rushed in a way that hurts the fundamental game design. I am one of the few people really liked Assassin's Creed 2 but wasn't really feeling Brotherhood because it felt rushed, but I'll freely admit the core of the game was still good. I can't make that argument for DA2, because the places it chose to cut corners (dungeon design, unique art assets, several story scenes) made it feel like a worse game.
I dunno. I don't think I came in with overly high expectations and I could maybe buy the argument I was prejudiced against the game from the beginning if I weren't enjoying it for the first six or so hours (before the repetition set in). I just get the feeling once Dragon Age 3 rolls around (
and it will since DA2 is literally nothing except set up for that game
The more distance I get from it, the more I realize....it's not a good game. And it's a game where the developer just does not understand why it's not good. They know it's rushed, but I think Bioware has convinced themselves that "not enough time" is the only problem with it.
I just...I really wish I had been wrong about this game and I loved it as much as I loved Origins. It wasn't the kind of bad I was expecting, but it was bad all the same, and I feel almost crushed due to that fact.
njean777
Member
ShockingAlberto said:
I did not think the game was that bad aside from the re used locations all the time. The characters were great even though some of the quests were dumb, or never really had a great ending (merrils for example). The ending was good, but I really feel that you should have only had to
fight either Orisino or Meridith not both
I started the game a few days ago. I have the "Signature Edition" and I did every single quest I could do before going to the Deep Roads.
I have to say that the issue I despise most is the endless bread sticks -- I mean endless enemies. Shales and tarantulas galore. This is by far one of the worst decisions I have ever seen. The flood of lower powered, weak fiends perpetuates the repetition throughout the game. Maybe it's the fact that these are simply random quests, but there is no excuse for such an imbecilic battle structure. Plotting spans of three to six enemies and spawning them after a previous pack has been bested, is not a great way to stay fresh. Dragon Age: Origins had wide, open maps where enemies spawned in certain locations. However, here they neither have a variety of locals nor a variety of fiends.
Before, I felt like an adventurer wandering about kicking ass and taking names. My character felt very dear to me. Now, I feel like an asshole running around in a city without anything to do but continuously kill worthless foes for no purpose at all -- I never care to read the log, because there's no reason. The interest wears thin.
The battles were getting exciting in the Deep Roads, but they still fester with shales.Sons of bitches at BioWare, why did you do this?
Furthermore, whose idea was it to remove friendly fire and a full overhead view? That person ought to be fired. I do not want Dragon Age Lite! I want Dragon Age: Origins 2.
PS: Does anyone get the MMO vibe from the Broken Coast? A part of me feels that DA2 will lead to DAO(nline). The color schemes and fonts kept making me think it was an MMO.
PPS: Fixed.
I have to say that the issue I despise most is the endless bread sticks -- I mean endless enemies. Shales and tarantulas galore. This is by far one of the worst decisions I have ever seen. The flood of lower powered, weak fiends perpetuates the repetition throughout the game. Maybe it's the fact that these are simply random quests, but there is no excuse for such an imbecilic battle structure. Plotting spans of three to six enemies and spawning them after a previous pack has been bested, is not a great way to stay fresh. Dragon Age: Origins had wide, open maps where enemies spawned in certain locations. However, here they neither have a variety of locals nor a variety of fiends.
Before, I felt like an adventurer wandering about kicking ass and taking names. My character felt very dear to me. Now, I feel like an asshole running around in a city without anything to do but continuously kill worthless foes for no purpose at all -- I never care to read the log, because there's no reason. The interest wears thin.
The battles were getting exciting in the Deep Roads, but they still fester with shales.
Furthermore, whose idea was it to remove friendly fire and a full overhead view? That person ought to be fired. I do not want Dragon Age Lite! I want Dragon Age: Origins 2.
PS: Does anyone get the MMO vibe from the Broken Coast? A part of me feels that DA2 will lead to DAO(nline). The color schemes and fonts kept making me think it was an MMO.
PPS: Fixed.
Ok, so I've beaten the Boss in one of the sidequests of Act II.
In Act III in the same cave on the same place (spoilers):
http://www.abload.de/img/dragonage22011-03-2319uz8m.png
Gotta love Bioware's self-irony.
In Act III in the same cave on the same place (spoilers):
http://www.abload.de/img/dragonage22011-03-2319uz8m.png
Gotta love Bioware's self-irony.
Confidence Man
Member
GameCritics review is harsh (360 ver). I dislike the game as much as anyone can dislike it, but the 2.5/10 score seems a little too low. Then again, assuming they use the full ten point scale I suppose it's no more outrageous than scoring the game in the 90s.
http://www.gamecritics.com/brad-gallaway/dragon-age-ii-review
I don't actually see a score in the review anywhere, but metacritic lists it as 25.
http://www.gamecritics.com/brad-gallaway/dragon-age-ii-review
I don't actually see a score in the review anywhere, but metacritic lists it as 25.
Frankly speaking I don't want to finish this. I met my former party member and decided to do my second Origins walkthrough.
fuck this.
When I have to fight the same boss in the same place but it's being presented as a continuation of the story in two separate acts something has to give.
I feel offended. They offended me by selling c-grade product as a sequel to AAA game. It's just a huge disrespect to fans to release a game like that. It's like spitting on them.
I'm not over-dramatic here but I has never been so dissapointed since the release of Deus Ex Invisible War. And I usually laugh at people who freak out about "dumbing down" and "consolisation", so I'm even sort of generous here. But as in case with Deus Ex IW it's just a bad game all the way.
If I could sell this piece of turd I would do it.
fuck this.
When I have to fight the same boss in the same place but it's being presented as a continuation of the story in two separate acts something has to give.
I feel offended. They offended me by selling c-grade product as a sequel to AAA game. It's just a huge disrespect to fans to release a game like that. It's like spitting on them.
I'm not over-dramatic here but I has never been so dissapointed since the release of Deus Ex Invisible War. And I usually laugh at people who freak out about "dumbing down" and "consolisation", so I'm even sort of generous here. But as in case with Deus Ex IW it's just a bad game all the way.
If I could sell this piece of turd I would do it.
bigdaddygamebot
Member
Confidence Man said:
I don't know how they ended up with a 25 either unless they have a set score for the general impression from a scoreless review.
Gamecritics was pretty scathing (and balls on accurate IMO). Didn't put a dent in DA II's average on metacritic though.
Still, considering what people are saying about it in general, and considering how fucking ridiculous the majority of Bioware interviews have been of late, clearly all the strong employees are working on ME 3 and the Star Wars MMO.
subversus said:
DA2 even seems to go beyond the typical "consolization" argument from what Im seeing. Every console player I know prefers the DA:O gameplay and presentation over DA2. Bioware says they wanted to cater to that audience but it looks like they even failed there.
Basileus777
Member
subversus said:
I agree with most of your sentiments, but I think "dumbing down" and "consolisation" aren't the real issues here. The game's problems stem from shoddy design, poor writing (especially in act III), and it being a rushed product, and not really from being being dumbed down. Other than the camera, most of the dumbed down complaints aren't anything near what this game's biggest problems are.
After reading that interview with the Bioware developer....
I call BS.BS.BS. "Due to technical limitations we had to keep the streets of Kirkwall less crowded?" Crap.. Final Fantasy XII had much busier cities and that was on the PS2.
Bioware > Has the great mythos in DA and MA but unable to translate it into a good product.
In the end they make themselves look bad. No reason DA2 is the way it is. Not sure if its a product of incompetence, Lazyness or both.
Almost seems like everytime a developer steps back and rethinks the formula then changes it to make it "More accessbile to a wider audience" = Shit %80 of the time.
I call BS.BS.BS. "Due to technical limitations we had to keep the streets of Kirkwall less crowded?" Crap.. Final Fantasy XII had much busier cities and that was on the PS2.
Bioware > Has the great mythos in DA and MA but unable to translate it into a good product.
In the end they make themselves look bad. No reason DA2 is the way it is. Not sure if its a product of incompetence, Lazyness or both.
Almost seems like everytime a developer steps back and rethinks the formula then changes it to make it "More accessbile to a wider audience" = Shit %80 of the time.
Xamdou said:
Yes, different teams made Mass Effect and Dragon Age.
The whole time they were making DA2, the ME team was making ME3.
And I've noticed that tide has definitely swung to the negative. Even Bioware's Registered Game Owners Only forum on their site, designed to be their refuge from negativity, has turned into a land of disappointment and advice for how Bioware can come back from this misstep.
Basileus777
Member
subversus said:
There's bug where the game thinks your DLC isn't activated. Usually closing the game and restarting it fixes it.
Interfectum
Member
Confidence Man said:
Now that is an honest review of DA2.
Fimbulvetr
Member
esk1mo420 said:
It also didn't force you into a mini-map every time you left an area, and didn't look boring or reuse maps.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Fimbulvetr said:
...god I hate that fucking mini-map. Pet peeve of mind.
macfoshizzle
Member
ok just got this game and so far it's not bad. i do like origins a lot better but i do love the graphic overhaul. however, it feels origins were so much more deeper in every way. one thing though.. what's up with the huge breasts on every female??
can anyone also tell me whats with the junk loot? are they useful and should i keep them or trash them? i hate how rpgs don't tell you any info on shit like this.
can anyone also tell me whats with the junk loot? are they useful and should i keep them or trash them? i hate how rpgs don't tell you any info on shit like this.
Interfectum
Member
subversus said:
I'm pretty much done with Bioware at this point. Though I will buy Mass Effect 3 used (or rent via redbox) just to see how it all ends.
HadesGigas
Member
macfoshizzle said:
One thing that really bugs me about DAII.
In Origins items had a little description, the weapons had lengthier ones. Now, a handful of weapons get codex entries in that god awful to sort through journal, but otherwise you get nothing.
Just one of many little things left out from DA:O that makes the DAII game world feel more bland and lifeless.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
subversus said:
Which makes me wonder why it exists in the first place. Just give us money instead of filling up our inventories with shit. I hated this in FFXII, too.
I should probably go back to this game eventually, but it really just wasn't much fun at 7 hours or so in. Rift and Shogun 2 have been distracting me and now AssBro is out (and it's amazing), so it might be a while before I do play DA2 again, though.
Such a shame after DA:O was one of my favorite RPGs ever.
Circle Jerk
Member
so you wont buy anything from bioware until their very next game is outsubversus said:
Also lack of The Doctors pre-release interviews shows their lack of care about this title or that they don't want evangelize it like they usually do (because they KNOW). When ME2 and DA:O were coming out there were tons of interviews with Muzyka and Greg. Now there's silence.
no, I won't buy SWTOR. And every game after ME3 until it has praise from community. Well, if SWTOR has enough praise I'll buy it, but until DAII everything Bioware was a blind-buy for me.
Bpatrol said:
no, I won't buy SWTOR. And every game after ME3 until it has praise from community. Well, if SWTOR has enough praise I'll buy it, but until DAII everything Bioware was a blind-buy for me.
Aquavelvaman
Banned
Does this game level scale? I'm at the beginning of act 2 and after doing a million forgettable side quests in act 1 I think I'm just going to critical-path my way to the end if that's viable.
^ Drop down to casual to speed it up further.
I agree, but in FF12 it actually did something. Depending on what and how much of it you sold, the merchants (or some of them, don't remember) would expand their inventory. In DA2 it's really just what it says it is - garbage. Useless shit to make you trod to a merchant regularly, not for money, which was just as useless, but to empty out your inventory. It's what you do in this sort of game, only there's no real reasons to do it. It reeks of padding.Zefah said:
RPGCrazied
Member
I'm just fearing DLC for this game. I just hope they give us new areas, the main game seriously lacked those.
Is there mods for the PC yet? I kinda want to unlock all characters regardless if they left or not. It sucks having: - MAJOR SPOILER -
Is there mods for the PC yet? I kinda want to unlock all characters regardless if they left or not. It sucks having: - MAJOR SPOILER -
either Anders die, which I don't want, or have both Sebastian and Fenris leave group if anders lives. I don't want that either. I've already lost Isabella too. Thats a lot to lose.
Waaaa tactics waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa bg2 waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
This game's problems have nothing to do with combat and everything to do with the effects that being rushed have on storytelling (well, and dungeon design). It's half the game the first was in that regard.
The combat is fine. You should just get it over with go back to BG2; nothing anyone can do will live up to your unrealistic nostalgia-filled expectations anyway. You'll play it and think how well everything works together without realizing that it formed your appreciation (as others had their appreciation formed by other games) for combat and thus is irreplaceable.
Regardless of the way in which BG2 or whichever cool CRPG became your idol, there is not one "right" way to portray fighting in an RPG.
The combat is exactly the way they want it and isn't going to change for DA3. If you're hoping for a change, bad luck and goodbye. Better load up Torment again and wax lyrical about the good old days of under-appreciated RPGs that only people like you could really understand. Again.
This game's problems have nothing to do with combat and everything to do with the effects that being rushed have on storytelling (well, and dungeon design). It's half the game the first was in that regard.
The combat is fine. You should just get it over with go back to BG2; nothing anyone can do will live up to your unrealistic nostalgia-filled expectations anyway. You'll play it and think how well everything works together without realizing that it formed your appreciation (as others had their appreciation formed by other games) for combat and thus is irreplaceable.
Regardless of the way in which BG2 or whichever cool CRPG became your idol, there is not one "right" way to portray fighting in an RPG.
The combat is exactly the way they want it and isn't going to change for DA3. If you're hoping for a change, bad luck and goodbye. Better load up Torment again and wax lyrical about the good old days of under-appreciated RPGs that only people like you could really understand. Again.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I have no issue with the combat itself as a system. It's a little too flashy for me (I too often can't see what's going on, the enemies falling apart like they're in Clayfighter was just hilariously bad), but at its heart it was still good.
The problem was the way they chose to implement it. The battle system did not properly balance for multi-wave battles. This is fine for boss fights, but it happened in literally every battle. Then they talk the boss fights to stupid extremes, like having to hide behind pillars to avoid a Wraith's super attack or, let's just say an enemy, having a massive hitbox on his attack with a seven second animation on it.
This wasn't a matter of rushing. It was a deliberate attempt to put lipstick on a pig, but the pig was already fine without it.
The problem was the way they chose to implement it. The battle system did not properly balance for multi-wave battles. This is fine for boss fights, but it happened in literally every battle. Then they talk the boss fights to stupid extremes, like having to hide behind pillars to avoid a Wraith's super attack or, let's just say an enemy, having a massive hitbox on his attack with a seven second animation on it.
This wasn't a matter of rushing. It was a deliberate attempt to put lipstick on a pig, but the pig was already fine without it.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
chase said:
No, it's not fine. There is no way to be strategic or tactical when every fight involves enemies that spawn out of nowhere in seemingly random locations. Not to mention that everyone either teleports around or runs at the speed of light. What you see is not what you get. You can't plan for shit in the game. Positioning means absolutely nothing.
The combat in Dragon Age: Origins was fun, but severely lacked in balance in the higher levels and could quickly become too easy. At least it offered a decent amount of options in terms of tactics and positioning. You also had utility abilities that helped with crowd control. In many of the fights in Dragon Age: Origins, it actually helped if you executed on a good plan. In Dragon Age II, all you do is focus fire and spam your damage dealing abilities as they refresh.
Basileus777
Member
The ridiculous ease of managing aggro and spamming healing spells and potions in DAO made "tactical" gameplay rather pointless. The camera notwithstanding, I actually prefer the combat in DA2 and think it's more tactical with things like CCCs. The spawning mid-battle is lazy design, but it actually makes managing all your characters and keeping them alive somewhat involving. And even the spawning becomes less of an issue once you learn how to manage threat.
Bioware shit the bed. All we can really do now is hope that they realize this and take the time to make sure it never happens again.
I think what really kills DA2 is not that it was rushed, but that it was designed to be rushed. The game has no ambition, there are so many design choices that only make sense from the perspective of someone who knows they don't have a lot of time to work on the game. I'd rather they aim high and fall short because at least then some greatness might peak out, and at the very least the mod community can patch and rework it into something awesome. Instead they aimed low. They got closer to their mark but who fucking cares when that mark is dull and repetitive.
I think what really kills DA2 is not that it was rushed, but that it was designed to be rushed. The game has no ambition, there are so many design choices that only make sense from the perspective of someone who knows they don't have a lot of time to work on the game. I'd rather they aim high and fall short because at least then some greatness might peak out, and at the very least the mod community can patch and rework it into something awesome. Instead they aimed low. They got closer to their mark but who fucking cares when that mark is dull and repetitive.
I find this to be the complete opposite. As a mage I can spam fire and ice spells, kill all the shales and manage my other members only if I need to do move them somewhere else. Aside from that, there's nothing tactical about it. I may have to pause it to set ice cone in a certain direction, but I was always micromanaging things in Origins. I didn't have a spam healer nor a bulk of stamina draughts, however. I believe I have died about six or seven times in 15 hours of game-play in DAII. I probably died several dozen times in Origins, but then again I was new to the genre.Basileus777 said:
Edit: I remembered that I respec'd my character yesterday. I actually didn't have the fire spells for about 12 or 13 hours, but the game has become easier than before after getting those.