ArchedThunder
Banned
Potara fusion lasts an hour, Blue Vegetto defused early because he used too much energy, the same thing happens with the fusion dance as well.
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Dragon Ball Super |OT8| There is no justice or evil, only survival or erasure.
- Thread starter ArchedThunder
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Potara fusion lasts an hour, Blue Vegetto defused early because he used too much energy, the same thing happens with the fusion dance as well.
um have you ever actually seen Vegitto
fucker lasts like 5 minutes. and that was even back then as SSJ1
dunno; Gotenks lasted longer and the kids could stay around half an hour as SSJ1 and go SSJ3 in the last 5 minutes
even SSJ1 Vegitto lasts a few minutes
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Jacket > Janitor
sure
at least if you can survive and outlast the other guy who does blue, ssj3 and eventually has to go back to base, but you still are ssj1, sure
I don't know why Vegitto would be able to insta kill Gogeta, and thus Gogeta can just outlast him
Gotenks wasn't anywhere near Vegito in terms of power. We can't make an accurate comparison using them.
EDIT: Base Vegito was miles above ssj3 Gotenks, there's just no comparison to be made there.
Unknown One
Member
Gogeta only acted like he did in the movie because the movie followed a pattern. Power ups are deux ex machinas used to sweep the battles instantly.
Literally watch majority of the DBZ movies, you'll easily see this pattern. You see it in the Cooler movie, Broly movie, Bojack movie, Lord Slug movie, Janemba movie, android movie, and etc.
Literally watch majority of the DBZ movies, you'll easily see this pattern. You see it in the Cooler movie, Broly movie, Bojack movie, Lord Slug movie, Janemba movie, android movie, and etc.
No you couldn't because the guy can instantly kill you or knock you out so stamina means shit
Unknown One
Member
Yeah, SSJ3 is eight times stronger than SSJ1. It should easily be able to 1 shot.
Every SSJ4 actually has unique hair and fur colors, even Gohan and Broly in Heroes. So I guess that's just a part of the form.
don't think it was _that_ far away. one echelon below at most. Gotenks can go toe to toe with Super Buu, Vegitto can beat Super Buu. from its effects, it looked like the difference between 2nd form Cell and Perfect Cell, where Vegeta can fight the first, but it takes Gohan to beat PC
and you are seriously understimating how short Vegitto lives. he appears, spars with Buu, gets made into a candy and is absorbed and separated. it's at the very best, as long as Gotenks as SSJ3, and Gotenks fucks around as SSJ1 for a long time, has no idea how to conserve ki, has wasteful techniques and moves, etc, etc
you don't really have any way to know this
what we observe is that Vegitto is stronger than Buu, that's all
well that's why I said 'if you _can_ outlast'
Krillin was several hundreds of times weaker than Vegeta, yet he won that fight
Vegito was above a Super Buu that had absorbed Ultimate Gohan. Even if we're generous to ssj3 and say it was even with Ultimate Gohan, that still puts base Vegito way up there. You can't compare him with ssj3 Gotenks, the power gap was just too vast.
Vegito literally had the power to stomp everyone in the series.
Unknown One
Member
That's some ridiculous logic.
Super Vegito fought against Super Buu that absorbed Gohan, who is way stronger than Super Buu. He also absorbed Goten, Trunks, and Piccolo. Super Vegito stomped Super Buu while toying around. Super Vegito could have possibly turned SSJ3 as well.
This was way before the potara retcon as well.
Also, Super Buu was toying with Gotenks.
Super Vegito fought against Super Buu that absorbed Gohan, who is way stronger than Super Buu. He also absorbed Goten, Trunks, and Piccolo. Super Vegito stomped Super Buu while toying around. Super Vegito could have possibly turned SSJ3 as well.
This was way before the potara retcon as well.
Also, Super Buu was toying with Gotenks.
Buu + Ultimate Gohan only puts that Buu at like...2 Ultimate Gohans
if we allow Vegitto to be above enough to roflstomp that...he doesn't need to be more than 4 or 8 UltGohans
which, if we round up and put SSJ3 Gotenks as 1 UG, it's 8x below Vegitto
it's fair to round up SSJ3 Gotenks to UG here because we also rounded up Super Buu as 1 UG
8x is like...yeah, one echelon in dragon ball. normally people say that SSJ1 is around 10x
and that was two little kids; if you put Gogeta there all those multipliers go away and Vegitto loses the fusion after a couple of minutes, while Gogeta just keeps going
who called it perfect
the guy who didn't know it wasn't permanent for non kaiohshins?
that sounds like someone who doesn't know a lot about fusions
My point is that we don't know that he keeps going. For all we know he runs into the exact same issue Vegito runs into.
Also, your math is beyond screwy.
Unknown One
Member
SSJ2 is two times stronger than SSJ1, Gohan was able to 1 shot Cell Jrs that SSJ1 Vegeta struggled with. The speed and power was extremely apparent. SSJ2 is that much stronger, SSJ3 is four times stronger than SSJ2.
SSJ3 should be able to one shot SSJ1 easily.
SSJ3 should be able to one shot SSJ1 easily.
we see Vegitto go SSJ2 (I thought it was 1, but there are the signature SSJ2 lightning) and last less than Gotenks SSJ3. without further evidence I am going to assume Gogeta SSJ2 at least lasts as long as Gotenks SSJ3 so that means he outlasts Vegitto
Vegitto separates and leave people in base form, so that means that the moment they break out, Gogeta only needs like a second to kill them
my math is beyond screwy because I was being GENEROUS to the Buu absorptions, for the sake of simplicity
it is just not as good as fusion, potara or otherwise
let's say that UG > Super Buu > SSJ3 Gotenks. which most people would agree, or at least have not a lot of problems with that
hell, let's say that UG = 2x SSJ3 Gotenks. I think this is their max difference. actual power is probably closer, and we will see why, but follow me here
it follows that UG is around 1.5 Super Buus. maybe a little more, maybe a little less
if Buu absorption is simply additive, that puts Buutenks at (roughly) 1.5 UGs. which is enough to turn the tide -which is what we see, Buutenks starts beating UG- but it is clearly not a big jump -Buutenks doesn't roflstomp UG-
which is why UG cannot be A LOT more powerful than Gotenks. if UG was, then simply absorbing Gotenks would not present a problem for UG.
it is only where the power levels of UG, SB and SSJ3Gotenks are close where the fight can go back and forth like what we saw. if you assume that UG and SSJ3 Gotenks are closer in power, then you also have to accept that Buu absorption is not 100% additive and some power is lost in the process. if you assume that UG and SSJ3 Gotenks are distant in power, then the Buu/Gohan fight cannot work out like it did. Buutenks would have made no difference if Gohan outclassed the kids by much. the characters themselves don't think that UG and SSJ3 Gotenks are too distant either
which also means that Buuhan is also not _that_ much stronger than UG. it's less than 2x, which means that Vegitto surpassing him is not that big a difference
That's 4 more minutes than he needs to wreck shit
Both SS4 Vegeta and Goku look cooler than Gogeta imo just because their color schemes are more pleasing. When I think SS4 Gogeta I think of the color brown. It's a shame too because his design is great, just better color scheme pls.
Undead Fantasy
Member
Fusion Dance can't even contain a Super Saiyan 3. It should last way less with Blue.
Maybe even seconds.
From the ways Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is presented, Super Saiyan 3 is an even bigger energy drain. Remember, even in Battle of Gods, Goku confessed he couldn't maintain the form long, while he can go in and out of Blue without looking like he ran a marathon. So in theory, Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan should last longer than Super Saiyan 3 despite being more powerful.
That said, if the more stable Kai fusion broke early, the Fusion Dance will performed worse.
SSJ4 Vegeta doesn't look cooler than anything
I personally think Super Saiyan 4 Vegeta was the best we got since his fur was actually red instead of hot pink like Goku.
But since Super Saiyan 4 is horribly design to me, that means Super Saiyan 4 Vegeta is the king of the garbage pile.
Neko Mimi Mode
Member
To be fair, you could argue SSJ4 Gogeta is only cocky to taunt Omega Shenron into using his Negative Karma Ball again (so he could reverse it's effects on the planet)
After he succeeds, he instantly gets serious and goes for the kill.
Are you kidding me! One of the most badass GT designs! Crimson, turquoise, and lavender? That's hot. And the hair! The form lends itself really well to the Vegeta character design in general, truly feels like a final form for him, to me anyways.
The Silver
Member
I love SSJ4 Gogeta's design, I see him and I think "monkey king" in my head, give him a power pole and a super nimbus
Romars202129
Member
I have to say, hating ss4 and all Gogeta version isn't really terrible somehow.
Vegeta ss4 needs to be burned with fire tho.
I could dismiss it on the pants alone. Honestly, SSJ4 Gogeta is the only one of the 3 that aged well imo, though SSJ4 Goku > Vegeta's design any day.
SnowFlakeCake
Member
SSJ4 was a great design, better than any transformation in Super for sure. Since DB came back to get ruined to a level I'll never understand, the transformations I can think of have been so shit. The red god one is awful due to the anorexia and the blue is just lazy, the new one is okay for the simple fact that Goku looks buffed out a bit more just like how the characters were in DBZ. Saiyans are monkeys so the transformation at least made some sense.
Sometimes the artists went overboard in Z, where the fighters had such big arms that wiping their arses would be harder than fighting Beerus but for the most part they were good. The women in Super are just sticks though that can talk, no meat on them anymore.
Super is just a sweat shop job with artists and animators that have just left primary school, it's very clear to see. The only new character I like since DB restarted is Champa, rest are absolute trash, Grand Priest is alright as well 'caus dude just looks smug as fuck since he knows no one can touch him except Zeno, who is mentally challenged anyway.
Sometimes the artists went overboard in Z, where the fighters had such big arms that wiping their arses would be harder than fighting Beerus but for the most part they were good. The women in Super are just sticks though that can talk, no meat on them anymore.
Super is just a sweat shop job with artists and animators that have just left primary school, it's very clear to see. The only new character I like since DB restarted is Champa, rest are absolute trash, Grand Priest is alright as well 'caus dude just looks smug as fuck since he knows no one can touch him except Zeno, who is mentally challenged anyway.
sleverfunk
Member
Super Saiyan Rose exists, so that alone makes this statement false. ;D
As for SSB being lazy, well, I'd take that over the.... "non-laziness" of SSJ4 lol
I still love that SSB is just a color swap.
Then the next big one is just combining two old ones.
The transformation games got out of hand in the Buu saga, and the writers seem to be trying to keep things as far away from Bleach territory as possible. Though this arc hasn't finished yet.
Pankratous
Member
Super Saiyan Blue is really damn cool, it's just a shame it's never really achieved anything.
> Weaker than Frieza (at the time)
> Needed to be combined with KK to match Hit
> Lost badly to Black/Zamasu with the occasional scuffle victory
The only opponents it has handily beaten are the ones they could have beaten as SSJ1.
> Weaker than Frieza (at the time)
> Needed to be combined with KK to match Hit
> Lost badly to Black/Zamasu with the occasional scuffle victory
The only opponents it has handily beaten are the ones they could have beaten as SSJ1.
Baleoce
Member
Unless someone is particularly fond of the colour blue, it doesn't really stand out in any unique way as a form tbh.
Blue is the best color.
Honestly, I do think the unnatural(to us anyways, not necessarily in show) hair colors like red and blue pop more than the standard blond Super Saiyan to show an increase in power. And it doesn't bother me that its pretty much just been recolors of the base and Super Saiyan forms, since anything beyond that(SSJ3 and 4) have always looked bad. But it having to fight against something that's been established for decades at this point is nearly impossible to win for many people.
Really, I think the problem is that there's just too many transformations for one character. Goku just keeps getting more and there's nothing unique to them, it's always just an all around power boost that makes the last one worthless, and sadly the next one will likely be the same. God and Blue haven't shown anything impressive because the one sided fights we saw with the introduction of other forms really aren't interesting as fights, and doing that in the movies they were introduced in would leave very little screentime to actually show them off, and it would be anticlimactic for any arc after their introduction to let them have that one sided fight. Maybe the next form will be able to avoid that, but we'll still be stuck with something that's just replacing the last which just isn't interesting at this point.
Anyways, Blue Kaioken is at least visually interesting, so I'm happy it's in DBFZ. Arcsys should have some fun with that.
Neither did Super Saiyan 2, really.
Since the in-universe explanation is that it's merely the Super Saiyan transformation with God Ki, I don't think it needs to differentiate itself too heavily.
Gotta love power level discussions...
Anyway, it's simple, Potara lasts longer and thus is the superior fusion.
Because regenerating clothing after going Great Ape was such a great design decision....
You do realize that GT was unfathomably ugly, right? Super, even at its worse, at least looks like Dragon Ball and trounces GT in every way.
My new favorite gif.
Along with Zeno pressing the GT button
Host Samurai
Member
Funny. Many of these artists have been part of Dragon Ball since the beginning, including GT. So, GT was also a 'sweat shop job with artists and animators' with many leaving pre-school given the time that past between GT and Super. The same artists also have worked on One Piece for years.
If you're going to insult a show and its artists, at least get education so you don't look silly.
And preference aside, I take 'lazy, uninspired' recolors along with 'anorexia' design, over the butt ugly Super Saiyan 4 design that can burn in the depths of hell. And I will never get people obsession with 'they need to be buff like Z' and murdering the word 'anorexia'.
- It was weaker than Golden Frieza, but it still won in the end since it was a more stable form, proving power doesn't mean anything if you can't maintain it. That is why Ultra Super Saiyan is a failure of a form despite its power. Super Saiyan 3 ran into the same problem.
- Goku was beating Hit's ass with just regular Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan. The reason Goku ran into problems is because Hit improved his Time-Skip. Also, when Goku only used Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan against Hit in their rematch, he outmatched him without the Kaioken and floored him with one Kamehameha.
- Goku never lost to Future Zamasu. He lost to Super Saiyan Rose Black (which is Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan under a different color).
- You're forgetting that Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan stomped on Toppo who is candidate to be a God of Destruction.
I'd say it is a majority consensus. However, there are a few outliers who try to act as though it was amazing and that Super is the insult to Dragon Ball, and not the other way around .
Ive always hated the idea that just because Toriyama didnt have his hands completely in GT that it wasnt cannon. We dont have the same requirements for any other type of fiction usually, so the only reason people dont consider it cannon is because they dont like it.
But with Super, since it cannonically places it before GT, basically makes it a what-if unless they decide to link it at the end.
Cool except Toriyama straight up said GT was an alternate Timeline and they're better off doing they own shit
Cool, but that still makes it cannon. Juat means they can make something else cannon too at the same time.
Icyflamez96
Member
Everything is canon to itself. It's such a pointless discussion when you go that route. The point is it's not going to be tied into the main continuity.
WinterIsComing
Member
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