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[SnowFlakeCake]

If we want to throw the Android 13 movie in, Goku got kicked in the dick, so he could have got a Zenkai boost from that.

But when Chichi and Goku had sex to conceive Chichi, the idea was that Goku was a SSJ when they had sex, making it easier for Goten to unlock SSJ.

With U6 saiyans they evolved differently so really comparisons of SSJ end there.

Good theory, that's why Bra was born SSJ God.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

Forget Tien, Toei seems incapable of letting side characters outside of U7 look even halfway competent. Literally everyone that isn't in the top 10 is just there to make the top fighters look good, and that's it.

Terrible, terrible writing and I don't care how you defend it.

Funny how people will bitch it's the Goku show. Now 'only' the top 10 get to look good and it's not enough because some literally whos that exist to not matter don't get backstories.

 

[Laiza]

I just want to take a moment to appreciate that Plague of Gripes actually calls Toei out for the casual misogyny they keep showing every time Roshi's on screen with a female character.

This series badly needs more female staff.

Funny how people will bitch it's the Goku show. Now 'only' the top 10 get to look good and it's not enough because some literally who's that exist to not matter don't get backstories.

You can't give thirty eliminations to one side in a tournament with eight teams and not raise questions about the competency of the writing staff or the planning directors or whatnot, y'know.

 

[Suburban Thug]

If we want to throw the Android 13 movie in, Goku got kicked in the dick, so he could have got a Zenkai boost from that.

But when Chichi and Goku had sex to conceive Chichi, the idea was that Goku was a SSJ when they had sex, making it easier for Goten to unlock SSJ.

With U6 saiyans they evolved differently so really comparisons of SSJ end there.

That's fan speculation and how tf would Chi Chi survive pelvic thrusts from SSJ Goku. Maybe if he was SSJ and they went the route of artificial insemination but that still makes zero sense from a biological standpoint. If I lift a bunch of weights and convince some woman that we'll have super offspring our kid ain't coming out the womb looking like Debo from Friday.

I've taken Dragon Ball too seriously, haven't I.

 

[Skeeter49]

I feel like this would've been better if it was broken up into blocks

Or maybe if this tournament was on a huge planet.

Or the thing everyone wanted, a traditional 1 V 1 tournament style.

How do U6 tournament + Exhibition match = Battle Royale? Zeno's are dumb.

That's fan speculation and how tf would Chi Chi survive pelvic thrusts from SSJ Goku. Maybe if he was SSJ and they went the route of artificial insemination but that still makes zero sense from a biological standpoint. If I lift a bunch of weights and convince some woman that we'll have super offspring our kid ain't coming out the womb looking like Debo from Friday.

I've taken Dragon Ball too seriously, haven't I.

Goku learned to control SSJ I guess? We know he was SSJ the whole time between coming out of the ROSAT and fighting Cell, so if they did it then, he was SSJ, that's just a fact if we're to believe under no circumstance did Goku go back to base.

 

[dickroach]

I feel like this would've been better if it was broken up into blocks
Like out a certain number of universes in each block, each winner advances than those remaining battles it out

probably, but they're trying to get that PUBG crowd

 

[I-hate-u]

Dragon Ball is too PG to go into details of conceiving.

pls stop

 

[A Pretty Panda]

You can't give thirty eliminations to one side in a tournament with eight teams and not raise questions about the competency of the writing staff or the planning directors or whatnot, y'know.

The format is stupid but it's the only way you get the the characters people have been following for 30 years to matter at all in fights which people have been begging for. Even bad characters that don't deserve it.

 

[Merc_]

It's always good to see other people pointing out that Goten sucks.

gj thread.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

Goten asking to train with Whis is the smartest thing any irrelevant character has done

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Or maybe if this tournament was on a huge planet.

Or the thing everyone wanted, a traditional 1 V 1 tournament style.

How do U6 tournament + Exhibition match = Battle Royale? Zeno's are dumb.


.

Yea this works too but essentially it would have been a good way to focus on other universes because for instance uni7 can only be in say block B so blocks A&C we'd have to watch brand new characters duke it out and get to know them

 

[Reivaxe]

Isn't Cell proof that Gero knows how to mess with DNA(though admittedly yeah the computer did most of it in that case)?

Yeah, I kinda figured that that was the case when I thought about this. Passing down genetic changes is very possible and very expected if 18 gave such a hint.

And speaking about genetics I find it interesting that no one points out the in the dbz world Saiyans must be genetically very close to humans as Gohan and Pan prove. But this just my Geekdom 101 showing, I'm sure not one really thinks about this much.

How do you explain it taking the main star of the series who we safely assume is the strongest outside of maybe Jiren and his chief rival taking years to achieve a legendary form but these super rookies from an alternate universe getting a tingling feeling in their back and getting massive power upgrades? It's bad writing just meant to make them able to compete in the tournament of power if you ask me. It's obvious Goku and Vegeta are better fighters.

This is gonna be a long one ... sry :/

Why would you ever think them rookies?
1- Different universe means a hell of a lot. Sure, U7 has had other worldly threats like Buu and Freeza but U6 Saiyans are professional space mercenaries who fight for peace. Going out and fighting things like that is normal for them.

2- Environment. U7 earth is not the best training grounds for the few Saiyans left alive in that universe. Only a legit hand full of people there are strong enough to even fly and much of that hand full have no desire to train now that the Saiyans have dwarfed them in strength. The only known beings in their world that could threaten to destroy earth is the GoD and Whis.

But lets for a moment imagine a world of Saiyans that were well known space mercenaries and lived peacefully for the most part, not wasting potential powerful members of their race based on baby power levels and power based caste systems. A world where I'm sure much of the population can fly and throw fire balls and desire to get stronger. Seems like a much more healthy training environment that pushes it's people to become stronger as a whole. This type of setting lead to base Cab, one of their strongest Saiyans, being as strong as base Geets (as we all know forms are a multiplier. So the better the base the better the form). I see no reason why these Saiyans shouldn't be this strong given how they live.

3- I think their environment actually explains why they never unlocked SS. Think of how Goku got it. He was in a situation where he was the only one even remotely strong enough to face Freeza at the time and everyone else just served as emotional triggers and added stress that lead to this transformation. U6 Saiyans wouldn't have these problem because of their different culture and setting. Like, what if Goku went to fight Freeza with a team or small army of Saiyans around his power level (some even stronger) at that time who had no problem fighting together? Even if none of them were as strong as Freeza the collective power and number advantage would mean that they wouldn't have that stress that made Goku go SS.

The way I see it to trigger SS transformation you have to at least have a base that's like .... lets say This "------------------------------------" Strong.

Goten and Trunks were already that strong as kids for w/e reason (epigenetics maybe) and I suspect that MANY U6 Saiyans are as strong or stronger than that.

To get the higher forms like SS2/ Ultra/ SS3/ SSG/ SSB you have to have a base that's much stronger than that. What we have here are 3 U6 Saiyans with bases as strong as Geets and Goku (I'll just put Goku there because. I'm mostly going off of Geet's comments in his fight and applying that to the other 2). Once they learn to get SS unlocking greater forms seem like it should come natural IMO. If they're already strong enuff to match Base Vegeta after all this then why would pushing past something he's surpassed already be that hard?

4- I think tingly back is how they all unlock it. Geets never explained it to Cab that way cause he's fucking Vegeta and accidentally finding it on your own through anger and stress makes sense to him. Goku is the same way I think.

So yeah, they're a race of space mercenaries and these are 3 of the strongest, why wouldn't they be strong?

 

[Kagari]

The format is stupid but it's the only way you get the the characters people have been following for 30 years to matter at all in fights which people have been begging for. Even bad characters that don't deserve it.

Deserving is subjective anyway. They're aiming for what will sell.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

this tournament will be worth it if Gohan and Goku team up to fight another group of two and are perfectly in sync.

 

[dickroach]

So yeah, they're a race of space mercenaries and these are 3 of the strongest, why wouldn't they be strong?

cuz they're the size of toothpicks
if they're the strongest, then the rest of the U6 saiyans must've REALLY sucked.

 

[Kevinroc]

cuz they're the size of toothpicks
if they're the strongest, then the rest of the U6 saiyans must've REALLY sucked.

To be fair, most of the U7 Saiyans were probably pretty awful even before Freeza destroyed their planet and killed most of them.

 

[LotusHD]

cuz they're the size of toothpicks
if they're the strongest, then the rest of the U6 saiyans must've REALLY sucked.

We're really using size as an indicator of strength in DBZ of all things?

The same series that had Goten, Trunks, and Kid Buu, among many others?

 

[Laiza]

Plague brings up a really good point about how the Kikoho has been downgraded in Super. It really used to be one of the absolute scariest attacks in the entire series, and now it's just the most generic ki blast. A pity.

The format is stupid but it's the only way you get the the characters people have been following for 30 years to matter at all in fights which people have been begging for. Even bad characters that don't deserve it.

I don't think the execution is making the best of it either way. There's so much they could have tweaked to both let the U7 players get their time to shine while also not making everyone else look like completely incompetent buffoons.

And the thing about that buffoonery is that it drags everyone down, including the characters that are supposed to be elevated. It's really hard for me to be impressed by Roshi's and Krillin's feats when their opponents were already pretty weak or stupid to begin wtih. Special emphasis on stupid. The general intelligence level of the fighters participating in the tournament is in the pits right now.

 

[Skeeter49]

cuz they're the size of toothpicks
if they're the strongest, then the rest of the U6 saiyans must've REALLY sucked.

Why would they suck? Cabba was on par with Base Vegeta, Caulifla on par with SSJ2 Goku, that's pretty strong for saiyans.

The size of the saiyans have nothing to do with power.

Cell's and Frieza's strongest forms were slimmed down forms.

 

[NeonZ]

Plague brings up a really good point about how the Kikoho has been downgraded in Super. It really used to be one of the absolute scariest attacks in the entire series, and now it's just the most generic ki blast.

The Kikoho was often depicted like that in anime-only content even in the original Z (see when the Cell Jrs used it or Tenshinhan vs Trunks in the Bojack movie). I never got why they always seemed to ignore its portrayal even while animating correctly the scenes from the manga.

Still, I think this last episode was just very sloppy overall (just like the one where half of the Pride Troopers were eliminated, which also was written by the same writer). It wasn't a problem only with Tenshinhan's portrayal. I guess It does show there's not anyone in the staff that cares about Tenshinhan though, since the one who got to write this episode was a new writer that joined the staff in the beginning of this tournament, rather than any established staff that wrote him before, and he basically just gave Tenshinhan the minimal amount of screentime necessary to make the plot work, without even any character moments.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

For people complaining about how many Universe 7 has eliminated, you do realize that only 2 universes in full have been wiped out thus far, right?

Even for universes that only have a few fighters left, that's still a crap ton of opponents left to be eliminated.

 

[Kagari]

The Kikoho was often depicted like that in filler even in the original Z (see when the Cell Jrs used it or Tenshinhan vs Trunks in the Bojack movie). I never got why they always seemed to ignore its portrayal even while animating correctly the scenes from the manga.

Still, I think this last episode was just very sloppy overall (just like the one where half of the Pride Troopers were eliminated, which also was written by the same writer). It wasn't a problem only with Tenshinhan's portrayal. I guess It does show there's not anyone in the staff that cares about Tenshinhan though, since the one who got to write this episode was a new writer that joined the staff in the beginning of this tournament, rather than any established staff that wrote him before, and he basically just gave Tenshinhan the minimal amount of screentime necessary to make the plot work, without even any character moments.

Yamaguchi isn't the best. Fukushima might be a bit better than him.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

For people complaining about how many Universe 7 has eliminated, you do realize that only 2 universes in full have been wiped out thus far, right?

Even for universes that only have a few fighters left, that's still a crap ton of opponents left to be eliminated.

if the show was ending in the next few episodes then I'd agree that we'd start seeing fighters flying left and right.

But since it won't, chances are we'll have more episodes with universe 7 beating everybody.

 

[Cimarron]

No...just no. I disagree.

You don't become a Super Saiyan in 10 minutes by being taught or else planet Vegeta would never have fallen in the first place. If you could just tell someone to get a tingle in their back or get super pissed off to turn into a legendary form then the Saiyan race would never have been decimated. SSJ has been watered down so much that maybe you're forgetting how big of a deal it was when Goku finally got the form. I grew up with DBZ and that was hyped to the moon so to see some rookies (and by that I mean new characters) from another universe get it in a few minutes without training, enduring hardships or loss like (arguably) the greatest warrior in the universe is a joke to me. It's bad writing and a plot device to fill out characters for this tournament of power. I think you can like new characters but agree that their power ups are BS due to lazy writing and poor character development. Maybe if they used a hyperbolic time chamber I'd buy into the nonsense but the staff couldn't even come up with that as an excuse.

And power levels are useless so I'm not going to even humor you there. Vegeta has used the hyperbolic time chamber, rage from extreme loss (ya know his whole planet and family being killed and being surpassed in strength by a peasant) and natural talent to achieve new heights. Not Goku telling him to get mad or imagine a tingling sensation in his back. It's nonsense.

Like I said I still enjoy Super but some of these ass pulls are indefensible to me.

Nope. 👎

It's just like literacy. ANY HUMAN CAN LEARN HOW TO READ!!!! However discovering and applying the written word is incredibly hard. It has only been developed a few times independently in human history. Look it up.

 

[Suburban Thug]

Post

Cutting out your response for the sake of those scrolling via mobile, I mean no disrespect.

I'm calling them rookies because they are new characters, it has nothing to do with fighting ability. I probably did not make that clear enough in my other posts.

We barely know anything about the other universes so its fan fiction to assume there are different rules for achieving SSJ. Until we have an official explanation beyond tingly back feelings and rage I'm not buying it. I've said this a bunch but it took Vegeta/Goku years of battle experience (that thing where they get exponentially stronger after each death match), time in the hyperbolic time chamber and extreme loss to achieve what was built up as a legendary form. But these new characters get zero development and powered up in the laziest way possible so I feel like fans bend over backwards to try and explain what is clearly (to me) lazy writing. This isn't anything new, DBZ was full of it as well.

I like your thinking but it's full of "what-ifs" while I'm going off what we know. I'm probably just taking the logic of this show too seriously because it's always been nonsensical. Makes for good debate though.

Nope. 👎

It's just like literacy. ANY HUMAN CAN LEARN HOW TO READ!!!! However discovering and applying the written word is incredibly hard. It has only been developed a few times independently in human history. Look it up.

Then why is planet Vegeta gone lol. They should have just taught them all to turn super saiyan if it's so easy. And I don't think you can compare real life literacy development to anime logic.

Edit: And yes I realize I'm doing the same thing. Like I said I'm just being salty and nitpicking because I hate the power creep.

 

[RefigeKru]

Why is everyone running like Naruto ninjas?

 

[Kyzer]

No...just no. I disagree.

You don't become a Super Saiyan in 10 minutes by being taught or else planet Vegeta would never have fallen in the first place. If you could just tell someone to get a tingle in their back or get super pissed off to turn into a legendary form then the Saiyan race would never have been decimated. SSJ has been watered down so much that maybe you're forgetting how big of a deal it was when Goku finally got the form. I grew up with DBZ and that was hyped to the moon so to see some rookies (and by that I mean new characters) from another universe get it in a few minutes without training, enduring hardships or loss like (arguably) the greatest warrior in the universe is a joke to me. It's bad writing and a plot device to fill out characters for this tournament of power. I think you can like new characters but agree that their power ups are BS due to lazy writing and poor character development. Maybe if they used a hyperbolic time chamber I'd buy into the nonsense but the staff couldn't even come up with that as an excuse.

And power levels are useless so I'm not going to even humor you there. Vegeta has used the hyperbolic time chamber, rage from extreme loss (ya know his whole planet and family being killed and being surpassed in strength by a peasant) and natural talent to achieve new heights. Not Goku telling him to get mad or imagine a tingling sensation in his back. It's nonsense.

Like I said I still enjoy Super but some of these ass pulls are indefensible to me.

As big a deal as SSJ originally was, in the scope of power that has ensued since then, in hindsight Goku was an extreme weakling in the universe at the time. We just didn't know that things like Majin Buu and Beerus even existed, much less other universes entirely. I dont necessarily agree that you can rationalize everything in anime much less DB, but the fact that SSJ is not that big a deal in the scope of all universes under Zeno is not that crazy.

Future Trunks going SSB is a much more egregious example of bullshit than U6 saiyans going SSJ easily.

Why is everyone running like Naruto ninjas?

Naruto ninjas run like dragon ball characters, actually.

They move so fast its easier to drag their arms than swing them I guess

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Why would they suck? Cabba was on par with Base Vegeta, Caulifla on par with SSJ2 Goku, that's pretty strong for saiyans.

The size of the saiyans have nothing to do with power.

Cell's and Frieza's strongest forms were slimmed down forms.

I don't believe either Cabba or Caulifla would've been able to hang for very long with the likes of Goku and Vegeta in either Super Saiyan or Super Saiyan 2 in a knock down, drag out battle.

Actually, maybe Cabba can since he's had more experience with the base Super Saiyan form, but I think Caulifla really needs more experience fighting as a Super Saiyan or Super Saiyan 2 to be in the same league as Goku, Vegeta, Gohan.

 

[Ashodin]

Magazine leaks might show tomorrow so we could know if Vegeta is out soon or not.

#dragonballwishforEDtheory

 

[Undead Fantasy]

Magazine leaks might show tomorrow so we could know if Vegeta is out soon or not.

Episode 108 and 109 titles?

 

[Kagari]

Episode 108 and 109 titles?

At least 107 and 108.

 

[EarlyEarly]

If Vegeta goes out next then this arc is going to solidify it's spot at the bottom of super.

 

[LotusHD]

If Vegeta goes out next then this arc is going to solidify it's spot at the bottom of super.

Why

 

[Rutger]

Why is everyone running like Naruto ninjas?

It's the Super Saiyan of running.

Spoiler

Because it saves time when animating.

 

[Kagari]

If Vegeta goes out next then this arc is going to solidify it's spot at the bottom of super.

Maybe wait and see what happens...?

 

[LotusHD]

To anyone interested, Plague of Gripes seems to hit the latest episode right on the head.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42HNvl0e26I&t=0s

Why does japan hate Tien?
I've wondered if its because he's considered ugly with the 3 eyes, but who knows.

This video is hilarious btw

 

[I-hate-u]

If Vegeta goes out next then this arc is going to solidify it's spot at the bottom of super.

Why? Think about the excitement it's going to bring to have the second/third strongest on the U7 team fall out.

 

[Skeeter49]

If Vegeta goes out next then this arc is going to solidify it's spot at the bottom of super.

Character who has been contradicting all his development in Super being one of the last fighters left would only make this arc worse.

The sooner he goes the better.

I'm just surprised the whole Beerus destroying Namek news hasn't been brought up, and Vegeta has only repped SSB for 5 seconds.

 

[Magwik]

Vegeta just got an arc with his son
Let Goku have one with his

 

[Morlas]

It would be hilarious to see him stewing angrily next to krillin and tien

 

[Kagari]

Vegeta just got an arc with his son
Let Goku have one with his

This.

 

[The Silver]

Why? Think about the excitement it's going to bring to have the second/third strongest on the U7 team fall out.

Meh, U7 still has 4 monsters on the squad, there won't be any tension for them until Jiren cuts loose.

Only funny about Geets going out now is for Beerus' reaction to it, and Champa if he starts shit talking.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

This video is hilarious btw

Floyd Pinkweather... omfg.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

This.

You just wanna see gohan in action.
Goku got an evil counterpart and as much shine as vegeta in that arc

 

[I-hate-u]

Meh, U7 still has 4 monsters on the squad, there won't be any tension for them until Jiren cuts loose.

Only funny about Geets going out now is for Beerus' reaction to it, and Champa if he starts shit talking.

That's what I am saying. I am gonna die if he brings out the vuvuzela.

Even Vegeta's own reaction will be gold.

 

[Skeeter49]

What if Champa starts making Voodoo dolls of everyone from U7?

 

[Chase17]

To anyone interested, Plague of Gripes seems to hit the latest episode right on the head.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42HNvl0e26I&t=0s

Why does japan hate Tien?
I've wondered if its because he's considered ugly with the 3 eyes, but who knows.

lol at that video.

 

[MiguelMexMIstery]

Vegeta being the next knocked out would be great, one of U7's main guns and he's the tournament's MVP so far. It would kinda suck if the first three out were the humans.

I'm still wondering what the hell the other universes are doing while U7 and 6 are knocking everyone out, bunch of scrubs.

We saw an U3 robot throwing out Shantsa(?) two episodes ago

 

[Undead Fantasy]

At least 107 and 108.

Here's hoping for U6 Namekians.

 

[ArchedThunder]

Man, Plague sure is mad about Tien.
Also I didn't know he didn't like Gohan, he even completely ignored that Gohan was training in the time between F and the current arc.