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Dragon Ball Super |OT8| There is no justice or evil, only survival or erasure.

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Skeeter49

Member
Lalala, this didn't happen.
It was a dark time for Gohan fans :'(


I concur.
Gohan's my #1 DB character. RoF killed me :(
It annoyed me for the same reason GT annoyed me. Toei forgetting about Ultimate Gohan. With the last 3 Gohan focused episodes, I kind of like RoF's existence more as a Gohan fan, I just wish they didn't botch the messaging on his development past that.

I hate what they did with his character more in the Universe 6 tournament/ Future Trunks arc than hate what happened in RoF now. But yeah, after RoF I wanted Super to be a failure and to burn for disgracing Gohan.

The biggest annoyance is the only reason we were fucked over so much in RoF, was because Gohan was the only saiyan going regular SSJ, and they had to make the callback to OG SSJ. If Gotenks was in the RoF movie, maybe things could have been different.

Seriously tho, he was beating him like that shit was personal.

Tien's third eye made Pan cry.

Whoa there are quite a few changes. I will skim through Freeza arc.
One thing I forgot. You meet Champa in RoF, Beerus's twin brother. There's a 4 minute conversation between the 2 when Beerus and Whis are traveling to earth.

Most of the stuff in the Frieza arc worth watching, is prior to Goku and Vegeta appearing to fight. Keep in mind RoF is Super at it's worst animation wise. I think 25 is when Champa appears. Though most of the changes that are for the better were what I mentioned, so you should probably look out for them.
 
It still bugs me that Gohan's Ultimate form is a transformation and not just something he's in all the time.


Get rid of that Android Saga Yamcha look he has now without the bang, its hideous.
 
Gohan's my #1 DB character. RoF killed me :(
It annoyed me for the same reason GT annoyed me. Toei forgetting about Ultimate Gohan. With the last 3 Gohan focused episodes, I kind of like RoF's existence more as a Gohan fan, I just wish they didn't botch the messaging on his development past that.

I hate what they did with his character more in the Universe 6 tournament/ Future Trunks arc than hate what happened in RoF now. But yeah, after RoF I wanted Super to be a failure and to burn for disgracing Gohan.

The biggest annoyance is the only reason we were fucked over so much in RoF, was because Gohan was the only saiyan going regular SSJ, and they had to make the callback to OG SSJ. If Gotenks was in the RoF movie, maybe things could have been different.



Tien's third eye made Pan cry.

Still did more in Ressurection F than he did in Battle of Gods.

They did him dirty in the Super arc tho.
 

NeonZ

Member
It still bugs me that Gohan's Ultimate form is a transformation and not just something he's in all the time.

Get rid of that Android Saga Yamcha look he has now without the bang, its hideous.

Making it an actual named transformation at least guarantees it won't be forgotten or inconsistently portrayed from this point on. The previous permanent state and vagueness was what led to GT and Gohan's initial situation in modern material.
 

dci260

Member
Gohan's my #1 DB character. RoF killed me :(
It annoyed me for the same reason GT annoyed me. Toei forgetting about Ultimate Gohan. With the last 3 Gohan focused episodes, I kind of like RoF's existence more as a Gohan fan, I just wish they didn't botch the messaging on his development past that.

I hate what they did with his character more in the Universe 6 tournament/ Future Trunks arc than hate what happened in RoF now. But yeah, after RoF I wanted Super to be a failure and to burn for disgracing Gohan.

The biggest annoyance is the only reason we were fucked over so much in RoF, was because Gohan was the only saiyan going regular SSJ, and they had to make the callback to OG SSJ. If Gotenks was in the RoF movie, maybe things could have been different.
I suppose Gohan's situation could be looked on in a more positive light, knowing what we know now, but like you said the followup to his initial development in RoF was not handled well. I didn't mind the handling of his character so much in the Universe 6 arc because they at least showed him training; which in my mind was infinitely better than how the manga handled it, with Goku telling Vegeta he is a nerd now, so I wasn't feeling nearly as defeated about it. Sadly, though, in the Future Trunks arc we had Piccolo going on about how Gohan is no longer a fighter, even though we had no reason to believe he wasn't still training him on the side. This is an instance where I actually prefer how the manga handled it, with him apparently training in Vegeta's gravity room.

Also, when it comes to GT
bleh
, was Gohan even really in it? I seem to recall the only time they gave him much to do, aside from his body being possessed, it was some random guy who sounded like him and dressed in his attire. Tell me, who the hell is this supposed to be?
latest


Whoa there are quite a few changes. I will skim through Freeza arc.
This would be my recommended watching order, assuming you want to see the things that you missed between the movies...

Episodes 1-2
Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods
Episodes 15-18
Dragon Ball Z: Resurrection F
Episode 25 (Episode length- 23mins 24secs) watch 12:02-14:38 (takes place during Resurrection F)
Episodes 28+

You do miss some changes that they made in regards to both movies, but it really isn't all that important; and in the case of RoF, I would say some of it is for the worse *cough* Ginyu *cough*.
 

kuYuri

Member
It still bugs me that Gohan's Ultimate form is a transformation and not just something he's in all the time.


Get rid of that Android Saga Yamcha look he has now without the bang, its hideous.

Ultimate Gohan has always been kind of a weird thing and barely understood until recently. And it kind of makes sense that it's a form since it just didn't happen when Old Kaioushin finished the ritual, he had to power up into the state, similar to SSJ. It's still not explained as well as it probably should be.
 
Oh, its real. For all the shit that episode 5 got animation-wise the RoF arc is uglier throughout its entirety.

Oh god. So the animation gets better later on I hope?

This would be my recommended watching order, assuming you want to see the things that you missed between the movies...

Episodes 1-2
Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods
Episodes 15-18
Dragon Ball Z: Resurrection F
Episode 25 (Episode length- 23mins 24secs) watch 12:02-14:38 (takes place during Resurrection F)
Episodes 28+


You do miss some changes that they made in regards to both movies, but it really isn't all that important; and in the case of RoF, I would say some of it is for the worse *cough* Ginyu *cough*.

One thing I forgot. You meet Champa in RoF, Beerus's twin brother. There's a 4 minute conversation between the 2 when Beerus and Whis are traveling to earth.

Most of the stuff in the Frieza arc worth watching, is prior to Goku and Vegeta appearing to fight. Keep in mind RoF is Super at it's worst animation wise. I think 25 is when Champa appears. Though most of the changes that are for the better were what I mentioned, so you should probably look out for them.

Thanks. I will go rewatch the episodes to catch Champa. Overall I am super excited to watch DB after I watched DBZ around 14 years ago. This brings me back. I am glad I skipped GT altogether.
 

Skeeter49

Member
Holy shit please tell me its a fan made pic and not actual anime footage :O

The movie had top notch art and animation.

The DVD's, and the Dub that aired look improved, but yeah Toei really messed up the BoG and RoF arc.

The first original arc started seeing improvements, but there were still some bad moments.

2nd original arc is where Super really improves in it's art and animation. There are still bad moments, but they're rarer. There's still the bad episode every now and then where for the most part the whole episode looks bad. It gets no where near RoF bad though. This is where the standards start to be held higher for Super in it's art and animation.

3rd original arc is where Super has shined in art and animation. For me none of the episodes have looked bad. There are episodes that look worse, than others, but Super has hit a much better standard in that department. So jarring to go back to the sub and even the dub of RoF.
 

dci260

Member
Oh god. So the animation gets better later on I hope?

Yes, exponentially so. It starts steadily improving with the arc following RoF and leads up to the glorious animation that we now witness from episode to episode (it is night and day compared to RoF).

Thanks. I will go rewatch the episodes to catch Champa. Overall I am super excited to watch DB after I watched DBZ around 14 years ago. This brings me back. I am glad I skipped GT altogether.
No problem, I already had that list on hand for a friend. Also, if you specifically want to see the Champa scenes they are at
the end of Episode 18 and during Episode 25 from 12:02-14:38 (assuming the length is 23mins 24secs).
 
Good to read that animation has improved later.

Also I have one doubt regarding the RoF movie. Goku almost gets killed by a stupid ray gun. How is that even possible? He can get hit by mountains and nothing happens, but a ray gun kills him? It is implied that because he let his guard down, he got hit. So are these guys like normal humans who can die by a gun shot if they don't have the "guard" up? And if yes, wtf is this guard? Some invisible KI force field?
 

Moaradin

Member
Good to read that animation has improved later.

Also I have one doubt regarding the RoF movie. Goku almost gets killed by a stupid ray gun. How is that even possible? He can get hit by mountains and nothing happens, but a ray gun kills him? It is implied that because he let his guard down, he got hit. So are these guys like normal humans who can die by a gun shot if they don't have the "guard" up? And if yes, wtf is this guard? Some invisible KI force field?

It's a little better in the TV version where he powers down first, but yeah it's silly lol
 

Skeeter49

Member
Good to read that animation has improved later.

Also I have one doubt regarding the RoF movie. Goku almost gets killed by a stupid ray gun. How is that even possible? He can get hit by mountains and nothing happens, but a ray gun kills him? It is implied that because he let his guard down, he got hit. So are these guys like normal humans who can die by a gun shot if they don't have the "guard" up? And if yes, wtf is this guard? Some invisible KI force field?

The idea is they're more susceptible to taking damage when their guard is down. It's where their power level is at, if they're powered up, an attack shouldn't hurt them, if they're powered down, an attack might do damage. The arc makes it a little better, cause Goku powers down to base when he gets shot, similar to how he powers down in the Frieza arc in Z, after giving Frieza his energy.

We kind of see this in Z when Krillin throws a rock at Goku when he's a SSJ, and it hurts him. Goku had his eyes closed and was relaxing. He was not ready, was not anticipating damage, and it hurt him because of that.
Same with how easy he goes down when Majin Vegeta hits him. if his guard was up, that attack would have still hurt, but it wouldn't have knocked him out.

Oh in movie it was very stupid then. He was in Super Saiyan God form. And yeah, thanks for reminding that rock throw. He does get hit. Interesting.

I forgot he was SSB in the movie when he got shot, until rewatching it recently.
I feel like the guard down makes sense, there are just times in DB and Z that invalidate it, which is unfortunate. Story wise I think there's good intentions in this being a new plot point, as Goku or other characters should be punished for having their guard down, and it's a good way to keep in mind these people nearing the level of gods still have weaknesses that can be easily exploited.
Any questions we'll try to answer, just be weary of the talking of current arcs.

It's especially funny if you think about how Bulma shooting Goku as a kid affected him, although I guess those were bullets and this was a laser beam... Still quite dumb though, RoF was a low point for the series in more than just animation.


Fair point. Is that rock scene filler?

It's filler. I'd still count it though. A more canon example with rocks, lol, is Piccolo damaging Kid Goku with rocks because he powered down to the point where they'd damage him to save Tien. What is Goku's thing with rocks.
There's also the Final Flash during the Cell and Gohan Kamehameha struggle, which I feel like shouldn't have bothered Cell normally, but did because he was focused on Gohan, so his guard was down.
The attack Cell uses on Gohan when he tries to save Vegeta, Gohan went from Cell's attacks being nothing to losing an arm, I don't believe that was just the Zenkai boost, part of that had to be his guard being down to get to Vegeta in time, especially if Gohan's Kamehameha, after losing an arm, could challenge Cell.

They're not as minor as things as the rock and the ray gun, but they still exist.
 

Red Devil

Member
Yeah, 8 universes x 10 fighters, plus all the GoDs, angels, Kais...It's so many characters all at once that a lot of interesting ones are just going to be fodder, without proper introductions.

And it could've been worse had the 12 universes taken part on this.
 

dci260

Member
Good to read that animation has improved later.

Also I have one doubt regarding the RoF movie. Goku almost gets killed by a stupid ray gun. How is that even possible? He can get hit by mountains and nothing happens, but a ray gun kills him? It is implied that because he let his guard down, he got hit. So are these guys like normal humans who can die by a gun shot if they don't have the "guard" up? And if yes, wtf is this guard? Some invisible KI force field?

It's especially funny if you think about how Bulma shooting Goku as a kid affected him, although I guess those were bullets and this was a laser beam... Still quite dumb though, RoF was a low point for the series in more than just animation.

We kind of see this in Z when Krillin throws a rock at Goku when he's a SSJ, and it hurts him. Goku had his eyes closed and was relaxing. He was not ready, was not anticipating damage, and it hurt him because of that.
Same with how easy he goes down when Majin Vegeta hits him. if his guard was up, that attack would have still hurt, but it wouldn't have knocked him out.
Fair point. Is that rock scene filler?
 
It's a little better in the TV version where he powers down first, but yeah it's silly lol

The idea is they're more susceptible to taking damage when their guard is down. It's where their power level is at, if they're powered up, an attack shouldn't hurt them, if they're powered down, an attack might do damage. The arc makes it a little better, cause Goku powers down to base when he gets shot, similar to how he powers down in the Frieza arc in Z, after giving Frieza his energy.

We kind of see this in Z when Krillin throws a rock at Goku when he's a SSJ, and it hurts him. Goku had his eyes closed and was relaxing. He was not ready, was not anticipating damage, and it hurt him because of that.
Same with how easy he goes down when Majin Vegeta hits him.

Oh in movie it was very stupid then. He was in Super Saiyan God form. And yeah, thanks for reminding that rock throw. He does get hit. Interesting.
 
Good to read that animation has improved later.

Also I have one doubt regarding the RoF movie. Goku almost gets killed by a stupid ray gun. How is that even possible? He can get hit by mountains and nothing happens, but a ray gun kills him? It is implied that because he let his guard down, he got hit. So are these guys like normal humans who can die by a gun shot if they don't have the "guard" up? And if yes, wtf is this guard? Some invisible KI force field?
Goku should be glad they didn't use a rock
krillin-hits-goku-o.gif
 

NimbusD

Member
honestly don't care that it makes not sense that 17 is as powerful as he is, he's dope. Favorite part of this arc so far is his unflappable badassery.
 

Eylos

Banned
Talking about sailor moon, i remember that in every fanfic and fanart of the 90's and early 00's is goku dating with usagi ( main character of sailor moon).
 

NimbusD

Member
giphy.gif


I feel like I stepped in Bizarro world where everyone became a 17 fan.

Yeah idk I feel like I entered a cult. I hated how he was reintroduced and how he just randomly was all powerful, but I just love how he's such a stark contrast in personality from how everyone else has become such a fucking idiot on this show. He doesn't fuck around, he's just there to fight and beat the shit out of people.

Idk, especially this arc, where there's multiple universes full of joke characters and goku seems to become more of a child as episodes progress, it's just nice to have someone who just wants to beat people and is competent at it.
 

Slaythe

Member
I can bring the poacher talk back if you want lol.

Right, because

1nkAq5e.gif


Well it would be an easy way for you to get 300+ shitposts about poachers like old times' sake.

But I'd rather see you get up there legit this time ! Let's talk about ways the new Namekians could improve Piccolo without fusing instead.


LotusHD, can I ask you where your avatar picture is from please ? The original pic.
 

Fj0823

Member
Good to read that animation has improved later.

Also I have one doubt regarding the RoF movie. Goku almost gets killed by a stupid ray gun. How is that even possible? He can get hit by mountains and nothing happens, but a ray gun kills him? It is implied that because he let his guard down, he got hit. So are these guys like normal humans who can die by a gun shot if they don't have the "guard" up? And if yes, wtf is this guard? Some invisible KI force field?

Get used to that. Super makes it even more of a thing than Z.

If you're not on guard you can die from a gunshot.
 

Skeeter49

Member
Right, because



Well it would be an easy way for you to get 300+ shitposts about poachers like old times' sake.

But I'd rather see you get up there legit this time ! Let's talk about ways the new Namekians could improve Piccolo without fusing instead.

When you devour all Namekian life on it's home planet, and then blow up the planet, you become a Namekian god.
Frieza had the right idea. If only he was a Namekian.

Maybe one has a power like Guru?

Kat's the best.
 
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