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Dragon Quest creator Yuji Hori is directly blaming American influence for both DQ3 Remake censorship and the change of Male/Female to Type 1/ Type 2
- Thread starter The Chairman
- Start date
- News
TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
Cool to see them complain about it but what they should have done is not allow this shit in the first place. They bent the knee, and I really hope this impact sales in a bad way so they finally get the message.
Sooner
Member
ResetEra mods
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cash_longfellow
Member
Here’s an idea…don’t let those clowns sway you. Keep your game the way you want it. I promise it won’t make a noticeable dent in sales. Vocal tiny minority ain’t shit.
Killer8
Member
If you're having to self-censor to avoid a reaction from someone then it's still the fault of the someone.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
I've bolded some key words in your statement.
They don't have to, they're choosing to. It's their decision.
Avoid a reaction that other games don't get? It seems like they have an assumption not based in facts, which isn't surprising from a company that hasn't read the room right in decades.
You can go through your whole life blaming others for your own assumptions and decisions. Good luck with that is my commentary on that.
An ever so slightly less revealing outfit and genders replaced with Type-1 & Type-2 isn't going to stop those including myself from buying the game. It will take something far more egregious from SE for that to happen.
TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
Yeah you are right, most people won't give a shit and still buy the game. Should have used "wish" instead of "hope".
In any case, it's still bad press. Hope they don't do the same shit for the remakes of I and II but honestly I'm not too optimistic, the big japanese developers are starting to get infected with the mind virus and it's a sad sight for sure.
jshackles
Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
For what it's worth, the first two games use pre-created characters, and you don't get to choose their genders.
The forum topic's headline here is somewhat misleading, because there's a couple of different (yet admittedly related) subjects in that clip.
1. Changes in character design and exposure. According to Yuji Horii, this is related to wanting to sell the DQ3 remake as an all-ages product. Too much skin exposure would make the age rating go up, which it seems they don't want.
No country is initially named in this part of the discussion, so it seems Horii's statement implicitly includes Japan and the CERO rating, which has become stricter in recent years.
Someone else, who is unnamed and off-screen, also adds that "rules vary from country to country" and states how wanting to sell widely requires complying with the strictest regulations.
Are the strictest regulations for games, generally speaking, coming from the U.S. or...? Keep in mind they're also selling this game in various other international markets as well. In other words, it's more of an open-ended answer in my opinion.
2. Torishima, the former manga editor, is the one who then discusses the difficulties of getting manga published in the United States. He mentions that the age categories were rather strict and how Shonen Jump had to be sold only for readers ages 13 and up.
Back in the day, he recalls that companies publishing in the U.S. even needed to get insurance against lawsuits. Torishima finds that situation to be ridiculous and frustrating, concluding that such things also end up influencing Japan as well.
Given that Torishima is speaking as someone who came from the manga publishing world, I think it's very important to recall the historical context behind his words. There has been a relatively long history of fear and moral panic against not only videogames (see: Jack Thompson and his "crusade" against violence in games), but also against anime and manga.
In the U.S. and other countries, there were indeed occasional protests from parent groups and religious organizations that Japanese media was "corrupting the youth" with sex and violence (including, it should be mentioned, protests against the presence of LGBT+/gay content, which is often thrown in with the other sexual "perversions" of Japanese media). While those types of complaints are far less common these days, I wouldn't say they have completely stopped either.
3. Yuji Horii then brings up the change in how the player used to select between male and female protagonists in DQ, but now it's a choice between type 1 and type 2.
Frankly, that particular change is not new to the DQ3 remake. I've seen it in previous modern DQ games. Of course, it's still perfectly relevant to ask...who is even complaining about that? Because I sure don't see a whole lot of the so-called "woke" folks in DQ circles going around proactively demanding such a change either. They might like it when the option is offered in other games, sure, but there's been no mass movement asking Square-Enix to change its own practices.
If anything, it sounds like that particular case was...well, more of a solution in search of a problem. In other words, it's happened preemptively rather than reactively.
Personally, I find this whole subject to be exhausting. Are these changes going to ruin the game? No, but I wish they didn't make such changes in the first place and see them as trying too hard to avoid offending people, regardless of socio-political affiliation, when freedom of expression is supposed to be what art and entertainment are all about. That said, it's also true that a company as large as Square-Enix has to place a lot of importance on marketing, especially on a global scale, so it can never be a purely creative process in the first place.
1. Changes in character design and exposure. According to Yuji Horii, this is related to wanting to sell the DQ3 remake as an all-ages product. Too much skin exposure would make the age rating go up, which it seems they don't want.
No country is initially named in this part of the discussion, so it seems Horii's statement implicitly includes Japan and the CERO rating, which has become stricter in recent years.
Someone else, who is unnamed and off-screen, also adds that "rules vary from country to country" and states how wanting to sell widely requires complying with the strictest regulations.
Are the strictest regulations for games, generally speaking, coming from the U.S. or...? Keep in mind they're also selling this game in various other international markets as well. In other words, it's more of an open-ended answer in my opinion.
2. Torishima, the former manga editor, is the one who then discusses the difficulties of getting manga published in the United States. He mentions that the age categories were rather strict and how Shonen Jump had to be sold only for readers ages 13 and up.
Back in the day, he recalls that companies publishing in the U.S. even needed to get insurance against lawsuits. Torishima finds that situation to be ridiculous and frustrating, concluding that such things also end up influencing Japan as well.
Given that Torishima is speaking as someone who came from the manga publishing world, I think it's very important to recall the historical context behind his words. There has been a relatively long history of fear and moral panic against not only videogames (see: Jack Thompson and his "crusade" against violence in games), but also against anime and manga.
In the U.S. and other countries, there were indeed occasional protests from parent groups and religious organizations that Japanese media was "corrupting the youth" with sex and violence (including, it should be mentioned, protests against the presence of LGBT+/gay content, which is often thrown in with the other sexual "perversions" of Japanese media). While those types of complaints are far less common these days, I wouldn't say they have completely stopped either.
3. Yuji Horii then brings up the change in how the player used to select between male and female protagonists in DQ, but now it's a choice between type 1 and type 2.
Frankly, that particular change is not new to the DQ3 remake. I've seen it in previous modern DQ games. Of course, it's still perfectly relevant to ask...who is even complaining about that? Because I sure don't see a whole lot of the so-called "woke" folks in DQ circles going around proactively demanding such a change either. They might like it when the option is offered in other games, sure, but there's been no mass movement asking Square-Enix to change its own practices.
If anything, it sounds like that particular case was...well, more of a solution in search of a problem. In other words, it's happened preemptively rather than reactively.
Personally, I find this whole subject to be exhausting. Are these changes going to ruin the game? No, but I wish they didn't make such changes in the first place and see them as trying too hard to avoid offending people, regardless of socio-political affiliation, when freedom of expression is supposed to be what art and entertainment are all about. That said, it's also true that a company as large as Square-Enix has to place a lot of importance on marketing, especially on a global scale, so it can never be a purely creative process in the first place.
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TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
Yeah but who knows, maybe instead of carrying the princess she decides to go back to the castle on her own because she's feeling quite strong and independent.
I jest, but who knows.
DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
I would never let something so silly and trivial to taint my opinion of this masterpiece. It’s sad to see that we here at GAF are engaging in the same sort of cancel culture that we accuse the purple folks of. Truly we are no better than they are….
…wait, THE Yuji Hori said this? Uhh… shit [head explodes]
…wait, THE Yuji Hori said this? Uhh… shit [head explodes]
Killer8
Member
Companies want to avoid a negative reaction by any means necessary because it creates a PR firestorm. In the games industry it won't just be a negative one from troons on Resetera and the like - it will also come from the entire journalistic apparatus asking difficult questions.
We already saw that when Final Fantasy 16 dared to feature a racially homogeneous setting. Square Enix have first hand experience having to deal with the nagging progressive Western lobby and I doubt they have any interest in having to repeat that again.
So yes, if a company wants to avoid going through the struggle session, naturally they do have to do it. You've styled at as their choice - but choices are not arbitrary and are highly dependent on outcome.
I view it as not too different from an abusive spouse scenario where someone is needing to walk on egg shells in case they land another black eye. Who's fault would that be I wonder?
Hypereides
Member
Personally, I see no parody in Dustborn. That game was genuinely developed with deliberately contemporary identity politics inserted into it. If it were a parody, those characters wouldn't be presented in a flattering/heroic manner and more in a "over the top" distorted fashion where they would just appear cartoonish to look at and listen to imo.
That said, I don't have anything against games like that existing on their own. As long as "ideas" such as that are contained within an original creation, and away from established IPs, then its fine.
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Omnipunctual Godot
Gold Member
Do they really think this game would sell less with a T rating?
Nickolaidas
Member
How can they, when the people who want to tell them why they fail never have the opportunity to reach them? All they hear is the lies of the wokies.
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
They've always known. Just gaslighting tactics.
TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
Yeah same for me. I won't think less of those getting it day 1 since everyone is free to do as they please, but to me a censored product is a no.
Hell, what's next? Censored demons in my SMT games? Fuck that, I'll never give my support and money to the hacks behind those practices.
David Ricardo
Member
In this day and age, when you can release a game digitally and you don´t even have to print the discs... couldn´t they just release another digital SKU without the censorship?
Revolutionary
Member
Gonna be hilarious to see how western "journalists" try to spin this one
Fake
Gold Member
They won't. They will do what they always do, ignore the interview and act like don't exist.
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
Google is known to censor their search results. Why I use different search engines
Hearing about the censorship out of the horses mouth just confirms that I should wait for a sale on Steam. It's a shame really since the rest of the game looks fantastic
SJRB
Gold Member
Pulling no punches here. Amazing.
Based as hell for saying it like that.
Can't imagine how annoying it has to be to constantly deal with the weirdos and their feelings.
They could do it, technically speaking, but why would they bother? It's a moot point, because Dragon Quest, at least for the main games, is primarily sold as a product intended for all-ages within Japan and many of the sales are still physical. Most of the intended audience isn't going to make their purchasing decision based on this subject. Conversely, I would admit that most of the audience wouldn't complain if they hadn't made such changes in the first place either, but it sounds like that would change the marketing strategy by no longer being for "all-ages".
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David Ricardo
Member
Also, now that I´ve thought about it for a little longer, if they release an uncensored version, that automatically devalues the western version and those customers are going to feel second class and it could hurt sales in the west
ByWatterson
Member
Fine to criticize American politics, but no one is censoring shit over here (it's the one place on Earth where it's almost entirely illegal!) and no one would be upset with male/female.
Either they have dishonest consultants or they do bad market research. Either way it's on them and not us.
Either they have dishonest consultants or they do bad market research. Either way it's on them and not us.
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Boss Mog
Member
The thing is the Type A/B is offensive to all sane people, who represent the overwhelming majority, but it doesn't seem to matter if we're offended.
Democracy is about catering to the majority and not to a minority of mentally ill degenerates. The free market is about making the product that a majority of your customers want so you can sell as many as possible, not about catering to mentally ill degenerates who won't even be buying your product.
Democracy is about catering to the majority and not to a minority of mentally ill degenerates. The free market is about making the product that a majority of your customers want so you can sell as many as possible, not about catering to mentally ill degenerates who won't even be buying your product.
SweetTooth
Gold Member
Its not they don't buy games, they are MINORITY with small numbers..majority don't approve of such ideas and yet, this clown world is catering to this small subset of people
DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
“I’ve been curious about dipping my toes in the Dragon Quest franchise, but the binary gendered characters and revealing clothing really put me off.”
- the imaginary western JRPG fan base that exists only in the minds of S-E’s DEI department
- the imaginary western JRPG fan base that exists only in the minds of S-E’s DEI department
StereoVsn
Member
Let’s be real, younger kids aren’t going touch this game with a 10’ pole due to pixel graphics and outdated systems.
It’s a game that’s mostly directed at core DQ audience so the only thing this self censoring accomplished is loss their fanbase off.
Again I don’t think it’s going to affect sales too much, but neither would leaving shit alone. It’s all exhausting like seeing warning labels on old movies.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
He's right 
.
American cultural imperialism in effect. It's quite appalling, in ways. Such as this example.
Younger kids play bad-looking games like Minecraft and budget-looking indies on mobile & PC all the time. Compared to a lot of those these DQ remasters/remakes look a step above.
What I don't get is, what content is in older DQ games to warrant even a Teen rating? Let alone Mature? It's like seeing cartoons from when I was a kid be rated TV-Y or TV-Y7, now rated TV-PG or TV-14 today...when it's the exact same content as back then!
"Modern sensibilities"
.American cultural imperialism in effect. It's quite appalling, in ways. Such as this example.
Younger kids play bad-looking games like Minecraft and budget-looking indies on mobile & PC all the time. Compared to a lot of those these DQ remasters/remakes look a step above.
What I don't get is, what content is in older DQ games to warrant even a Teen rating? Let alone Mature? It's like seeing cartoons from when I was a kid be rated TV-Y or TV-Y7, now rated TV-PG or TV-14 today...when it's the exact same content as back then!
"Modern sensibilities"
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I saw this the other day, but was hoping there would be more translations out there by now to see if they were all similar. Based off the only translation released so far, it looked like a pretty blunt and raw discussion from the creators regarding the changes and how the overall landscape looks to them. Although, some of the wording used makes me wonder if some liberties were taken with the translation - especially as they are speaking on behalf of the company at a tradeshow. Of course, maybe they give zero fucks and that's how they usually talk lol
I didn't realize this game was getting hit with the changes and noticed this was a some-what hot topic about 2 weeks ago once I started digging in on it. I don't agree with the changes done in comparison to the original either and based off the only translation so far - at least they are aware of it and talking about it. The costume changes were really odd too as they remind me of the old school Conan/Dungeons and Dragons covers. The other thing too with doing a global (international) release is that they are also putting this on practically all platforms. I don't believe CERO was the issue here, but I'm curious if this was more of a platform issue.
For any Akira Toriyama fans out there, has any of his designs ever been modified like this post-production release? I still find it odd it was changed to add those textures to the warrior like that, especially as you can't really see anything in-game either (based off what's been released so far). Most people likely wouldn't notice it aside from the promotional character/artwork designs that make it more obvious due to the detail.
I didn't realize this game was getting hit with the changes and noticed this was a some-what hot topic about 2 weeks ago once I started digging in on it. I don't agree with the changes done in comparison to the original either and based off the only translation so far - at least they are aware of it and talking about it. The costume changes were really odd too as they remind me of the old school Conan/Dungeons and Dragons covers. The other thing too with doing a global (international) release is that they are also putting this on practically all platforms. I don't believe CERO was the issue here, but I'm curious if this was more of a platform issue.
For any Akira Toriyama fans out there, has any of his designs ever been modified like this post-production release? I still find it odd it was changed to add those textures to the warrior like that, especially as you can't really see anything in-game either (based off what's been released so far). Most people likely wouldn't notice it aside from the promotional character/artwork designs that make it more obvious due to the detail.
Gamerfan81
Member
Thank you for showing this and educating others that are not really aware of what's going on.
Hopefully someone here can answer this question since we got some really bright people here. If DEI is so divisive and can cause a company/corporation/firm to lose money (Budlight situation, Sony, Disney) why implement it? Isn't the goal of these corporations to make money?
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Dragon Quest is a JP game made by JP people and they are well within their rights to control what they do with the IP. So maybe don't censor the game? Maybe make the game for the fans and not consultants and companies who aren't buying the product to begin with?
Hori is talking the talk but he sure isn't walking the walk. If he is so upset...so frustrated he would have as the IP creator stopped this from happening. This isn't a George Lucas where he sold the IP...he still has some say in what can happen and clearly regardless of spewing hot air he isn't doing much about it.
Pot meet Kettle.
If he cared he would delay the game and remove the censorship and restore Toriyama's vision but hmmm I don't think he will.
Hori is talking the talk but he sure isn't walking the walk. If he is so upset...so frustrated he would have as the IP creator stopped this from happening. This isn't a George Lucas where he sold the IP...he still has some say in what can happen and clearly regardless of spewing hot air he isn't doing much about it.
Pot meet Kettle.
If he cared he would delay the game and remove the censorship and restore Toriyama's vision but hmmm I don't think he will.