whalleywhat
Member
So Skyrim is beyond reproach because it's objectively Skyrim? Whereas this game only succeeds at subjective matters like 'being fun'? What are you talking about?
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Dragon's Dogma |OT| For the night is dark and full of terrors
- Thread starter Dresden
- Start date
So Skyrim is beyond reproach because it's objectively Skyrim? Whereas this game only succeeds at subjective matters like 'being fun'? What are you talking about?
You're going to have to play as a Mystic Knight for awhile, because it is a rank 8 skill.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
No. I'm pointing out that a highly marketable product and a high quality game design don't have to align.
Honestly, a lot of people (not on GAF, I'm speaking generally) have already pointed to the success of Skyrim as proof it's the best game ever, the new standard by which all "RPGs" must be judged, etc. Skyrim, which was basically targeted for a huge opening to sell as much as possible in the first six months. With marketing, aesthetics, theme, even the character on the game's cover designed to draw in as many people as humanly possible and get rid of the 'stigma' of RPGs.
Does any of that automatically mean Skyrim is also a superior game? No, not necessarily. Just that it was given all the attributes of a superior marketable product.
I didn't say that Skyrim (or Oblivion) were bad games. Though I would guess you can find plenty of arguments among Elder Scrolls fans that they are worse in a lot of ways than they ought to be, and inferior in basic design concepts than Morrowind.
This isn't a 'hipster' argument where a game is good because it's unpopular.
If it were possible to enhance the design of Dragon's Dogma further so that it eased in and appealed to more players, didn't frustrate them, that'd be great. If it could be expanded to fully equal the popular sandbox nature of the Elder Scrolls games (and those hundreds of hours of replayability), that would be all the better.
But just because it may not be as marketable as some other games, doesn't mean it isn't a great game.
In terms of what's great about its mechanics and design, it's not just me - the thread is full of people that I can see, citing stuff like: combat, enemy variety and design, no level scaling, intricate world with extremely dense resolution of exploration and discovery, intense risk-reward for exploration and taking chances on pushing further, and the scary night time play. Not just on GAF either; I've pursued threads on multiple forums and plenty of people are saying the game is so much better than just about anything else so far in all those areas and a few others.
It's clear you think the game is inferior in every way except combat, and that Elder Scrolls has superior exploration and discovery. I suppose it depends on what you're looking for and what you consider rewarding to find.
What the Elder Scrolls series does well is providing a box full of tools to play with, and essentially construct the kind of game you want to pretend it is (note I do not use "pretend" in a negative sense). Even if there's no real gameplay point or use to building the wizard who only casts debilitating magic, you can do that.
What a lot of people are appreciating about Dragon's Dogma is that its design is still free form, but a lot tighter than that. Exploration is more dangerous and tense thanks to non auto-leveled creatures, etc. The dynamic events that pop up can be intricate in how they play out due to the resolution of the combat system.
Note here that saying "just the combat is good" is like saying "just half the game is good". "Combat" in a lot of games like this feels tacked on and rudimentary, not baked well. Combat in DD is half the game or more - it's not just about your character having some good looking moves, but an elaborate system involving intelligent enemies that cooperate in groups, prey on one another, party members who actually do stuff in combat and interesting scenarios where they create dynamic combinations and a whole lot more.
Nevermind that the game is a living, breathing AD&D bestiary that's fully playable and evokes the monsters and tropes better than many/most actual AD&D licensed games, lol.
(The joke here is that you'll see a lot of people fuming over the pawn AI being dumb, like "WHY NO HEAL?" what goes unstated is how often it works, and how much people playing the game quickly take for granted the complex interactions and teamwork that dynamically form. The first time someone sees a dead giant falling over, and a pawn run over to drag an injured pawn out from under it, tends to blow minds.)
Aaand.. the game just successfully creeped me out. I have no idea if this is a spoiler or not. The enblackened text -- hell, the whole last three paragraphs -- may well be spoiler-fodder. Treat with caution if you're sensitive to such. It's possible that the game did a 'thing' to me that you might prefer to experience yourself free from expectations.
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I went on a wander to 'just quickly test the new party'. That was four hours ago. Ended up roaming randomly West of the capital, just uncovering mappage and seeing what I could find (hello Snakeskin Purse in a river). Lots of crazy shit happened. Highs, lows, towers, caves, etc.
The time's getting on for 10pm so I figure I should head back to the city and stockpile riches, lick wounds, augment pocket-size and the like, before shutting the game off. But, thing is, it keeps tossing these shiny things at me on either side which I can't resist -- literally shiny in the case of the floating lights that turned out to be a phantom mother's meeting. So my quick jaunt home ends up being taking an hour+ rather than the fifteen minutes I wanted.
I'm there just having dealt with those afore-mentioned phantoms, when I spot a figure stood on a rock off to one side. I approach cautiously, it's night-time, the capital city is lighting up the horizon behind this mysterious person and he/she's paying me no mind as I creep towards him/her, High Ingle at the ready.
At this point in the evening, I'm kinda exhausted, being playing most of the day. My mind's susceptible to things.
I get close enough to this figure's cliff-edge to note that it's a female in robes. Chilly-looking stave at her back. She doesn't aggro me. It's a Pawn. In the middle of nowhere. On her own. I talk to her. Her name?
---
I went on a wander to 'just quickly test the new party'. That was four hours ago. Ended up roaming randomly West of the capital, just uncovering mappage and seeing what I could find (hello Snakeskin Purse in a river). Lots of crazy shit happened. Highs, lows, towers, caves, etc.
The time's getting on for 10pm so I figure I should head back to the city and stockpile riches, lick wounds, augment pocket-size and the like, before shutting the game off. But, thing is, it keeps tossing these shiny things at me on either side which I can't resist -- literally shiny in the case of the floating lights that turned out to be a phantom mother's meeting. So my quick jaunt home ends up being taking an hour+ rather than the fifteen minutes I wanted.
I'm there just having dealt with those afore-mentioned phantoms, when I spot a figure stood on a rock off to one side. I approach cautiously, it's night-time, the capital city is lighting up the horizon behind this mysterious person and he/she's paying me no mind as I creep towards him/her, High Ingle at the ready.
At this point in the evening, I'm kinda exhausted, being playing most of the day. My mind's susceptible to things.
I get close enough to this figure's cliff-edge to note that it's a female in robes. Chilly-looking stave at her back. She doesn't aggro me. It's a Pawn. In the middle of nowhere. On her own. I talk to her. Her name?
Death.
Added to favourites!
GrandHarrier
Member
One problem with lack of scaling is that you reach a point where you are essentially God. Yeah, it's amusing at first. But after awhile its sort of a yawnfest. I'm reaching that point myself. And night time? Lol. With the Assassin + to attack and defense, I nearly double my attack. I want to be out at night. You don't need 1 to 1 scaling, but some measure of escalation would be nice.
If Fast Travel really ruined things for you, you must have never gone exploring. Like. Ever. Because you can't fast travel to places you haven't been. You know what's fun? Finding stuff for the first time. You know what's not fun? Running a 10 minute journey over and over again because of poor quest design or trainer/vendor placement.
Oh boy, I'm excited! That's pretty damn awesome.
Lucky bastard. I am just itching to face him for the first time, but am taking it slow with this game. All in good time.
XANDER CAGE
Member
So hold on a second - this game has loot/items and such? I really haven't been following but on last week's Bombcast, Patrick was talking about how the game had no loot. Was he straight up wrong, or was he just phrasing things poorly?
I'm kind of torn between this and Future Soldier at the moment because I love open-world singleplayer RPGs and tactical multiplayer shooters.
I'm kind of torn between this and Future Soldier at the moment because I love open-world singleplayer RPGs and tactical multiplayer shooters.
This game has plenty of loot. I don't know how someone could say otherwise.
????? It's loaded with it. I am talking chests, crates, barrels and enemy drops. There are weapons, armor, items and plants to combine, tools, curatives, materials to upgrade armor and weapons with, etc.
God GiantBomb is such a fucking piece of shit website. This game has a massive amount of loot. It has loot pouring out of every crevice and every hole and every nook and cranny in the world. It's not even a difference of opinion; he's factually incorrect.
LOL, what baffles me is how could they possibly miss it?
Has anyone else become attached to a particular pawn that is not their own? I've been using my friend's pawn "Ibis" (ID: Jognny on PSN) and I'm at the point where she MUST be in my party now. I have this connection to her that I can't explain other than to just assume that I am drawn to her because she's my friend's pawn.
I like her behavior too though. She doesn't constantly chatter, she never fails to enchant my weapons in a timely manner, and she helps out downed pawns when the shit really hits the fan. Plus I love knowing that she's going back to my friend who will get a ton of free RC as well as a nice item that they can use.
For all the guff I've seen this game about having "hallow" characters, I sure love my main pawn and my friend's pawn a LOT. Its like whoever else gets hired has big shoes to fill, y'know?
Also, I hired special pawn "Dante" last night. He failed to impress. Sure, he kinda looked like Dante, but I wanted him to be wearing a long red trench and looks more like he does in DMC. As he was, he just kinda looked like somebody's best attempt at making a Dante out of a Dragon's Dogma character. Oh well. Plus he never shut up. He could use a lesson from my other pawns Una and Ibis.
BTW, if anyone is on PSN feel free to send me a friend request. I've got like 5 new friends from GAF so far and I've got plenty of room left for more.
My pawn: Una (my ID= UNOILLNINO)
Her class: Strider
Her lvl: around 16?
One last note: I spent 30+ minutes at the start trying my best to make her look as much like my fiance as possible. I'm way proud of the results. She's gorgeous, just like the real thing.
I like her behavior too though. She doesn't constantly chatter, she never fails to enchant my weapons in a timely manner, and she helps out downed pawns when the shit really hits the fan. Plus I love knowing that she's going back to my friend who will get a ton of free RC as well as a nice item that they can use.
For all the guff I've seen this game about having "hallow" characters, I sure love my main pawn and my friend's pawn a LOT. Its like whoever else gets hired has big shoes to fill, y'know?
Also, I hired special pawn "Dante" last night. He failed to impress. Sure, he kinda looked like Dante, but I wanted him to be wearing a long red trench and looks more like he does in DMC. As he was, he just kinda looked like somebody's best attempt at making a Dante out of a Dragon's Dogma character. Oh well. Plus he never shut up. He could use a lesson from my other pawns Una and Ibis.
BTW, if anyone is on PSN feel free to send me a friend request. I've got like 5 new friends from GAF so far and I've got plenty of room left for more.
My pawn: Una (my ID= UNOILLNINO)
Her class: Strider
Her lvl: around 16?
One last note: I spent 30+ minutes at the start trying my best to make her look as much like my fiance as possible. I'm way proud of the results. She's gorgeous, just like the real thing.
XANDER CAGE
Member
Hahaha, welp. I swear he said "it's not a loot game". And yup, here we go: skip to 1:20:40
So, then, if I like exploring and finding cool shit this is a game I want to pick up, right?
GrandHarrier
Member
First of all, I'm not trying to hold Skyrim as the best game ever. I'm just countering the attacks upon it. You know, the sort of attacks you'd see when people want to bring something up by tearing something else down. You yourself have said they are two entirely different games. So why compare them at all? Of course, we all know the reasons why, they do have similarities and the same thought processes that cause fanboyism are going to be present here. You latch onto a game and anything that threatens what you perceive as superior is the enemy. I like -both- games. But I can see the flaws in Dragon's Dogma that other people seem to ignore:
The world is NOT dense. There are isolated pockets of interest, but outside of that, enjoy wandering the landscape for tens of minutes at a time, along the same routes you've gone before, fighting the same distribution of enemies. As in, the group sizes/compositions/levels will be IDENTICAL. I've practically mapped out in my head where and what I will fight. Nighttime outside of Gran Soren, just north and west of it, beneath the arch? 4 or so zombies will spawn. The pass halfway to the encampment? Bandits. Oh, and wolves just before that. The ONLY "randomness" are the giant mobs and even they aren't really random. There will ALWAYS be a Cyclops just outside of the female bandit camp.
Along that vein, the enemy "variety" is a joke. Wolves. Goblins. Bandits. Harpies. Undead. Then reskins of these (i.e. Direwolves, Hobgoblins, Snow Harpies). And the scaling is neat! ... At first. Until you realize that there will never be anything stronger and you're now chainsawing through them, which is cool at first, but quickly becomes boring.
Crafting (non weapons) is fun, until you realize its all but pointless. Maybe I'm missing something, but every so often I just take 100 bottles and collect spring water, a "cure all" that effects the entire party, rendering ANY other healing item pointless. Time sensitive items are fun! Until you realize its a waste of time and just sell lots of sour meat to the vendors. The one area I've enjoyed is gear upgrading, but even then its more of a "Huh, finally found that random item I've needed since like, the beginning of the game."
Still, its pretty fun. Just be nice if people recognized its flaws.
Warren Ellis
Banned
where the heck is the forger in gran soren ? i can't find him...
In a way yes. I usually end up keeping the same guys in my party until I'm around 4 levels higher than them, which results in me getting attached. There are times when I wish I had some good items to send home with them when I finally get new pawns.
To be fair, a lot of the loot is junk or items used for making other items/upgrading weapons and armor. There's weapons and armor in every dungeon I've been to, as well as throughout the world, but there's really not a lot of useful drops that I've found anyway.
It's like, oh look a bow that I can buy in the shop already. Almost everything I'm using armor and weapon-wise on both myself and my pawn are things I've purchased from the shops. And I'm level 50.
I've found some drops along the way that I'm using, of course, but thus far if I want an upgrade it's been coming from an NPC vendor.
GrandHarrier
Member
It does and it doesn't. You'll hold onto gear for a very long time. Getting a new piece of gear, an actual sizeable upgrade, is pretty uncommon for the first 20+ hours of the game. And even then, you can get screwed by drops and their rarity, that you are (like me) rocking the starter long bow at level 48 as you level Ranger, forcing you to ignore ranged in lieu of your sweet (random chance) Dragon Forged Daggers.
So long as you don't think of it as a loot game in a Diablo sense, yeah, it still has loot.
Has anyone else become attached to a particular pawn that is not their own? I've been using my friend's pawn "Ibis" (ID: Jognny on PSN) and I'm at the point where she MUST be in my party now. I have this connection to her that I can't explain other than to just assume that I am drawn to her because she's my friend's pawn.
I like her behavior too though. She doesn't constantly chatter, she never fails to enchant my weapons in a timely manner, and she helps out downed pawns when the shit really hits the fan. Plus I love knowing that she's going back to my friend who will get a ton of free RC as well as a nice item that they can use.
For all the guff I've seen this game about having "hallow" characters, I sure love my main pawn and my friend's pawn a LOT. Its like whoever else gets hired has big shoes to fill, y'know?
Also, I hired special pawn "Dante" last night. He failed to impress. Sure, he kinda looked like Dante, but I wanted him to be wearing a long red trench and looks more like he does in DMC. As he was, he just kinda looked like somebody's best attempt at making a Dante out of a Dragon's Dogma character. Oh well. Plus he never shut up. He could use a lesson from my other pawns Una and Ibis.
BTW, if anyone is on PSN feel free to send me a friend request. I've got like 5 new friends from GAF so far and I've got plenty of room left for more.
My pawn: Una (my ID= UNOILLNINO)
Her class: Strider
Her lvl: around 16?
One last note: I spent 30+ minutes at the start trying my best to make her look as much like my fiance as possible. I'm way proud of the results. She's gorgeous, just like the real thing.
This so much. I am finding myself getting attached to my pawns as well. The game would just not be the same or have it's own unique 'soul' without them. For all of the repeated lines and being quirky sometimes, they reinforce making you feel important in such a way that would not be as strong by yourself or playing co-op.
lunchtoast
Member
How do I find the Everfall? Is it post game only?
edit-n/m can't believe I never noticed the stairs in the guild
oh and equiping the lantern is annoying, you should be able to hold down select or something to auto equip.
double edit-oh wait I have been here before, just never noticed the name. Jeez, so stupid.
edit-n/m can't believe I never noticed the stairs in the guild
oh and equiping the lantern is annoying, you should be able to hold down select or something to auto equip.
double edit-oh wait I have been here before, just never noticed the name. Jeez, so stupid.
Having not played Diablo, I might be wrong, but isn't it a game with constant pieces of loot dropping, where as DD is like Skyrim, in that, every once in awhile, you'll find this piece of awesomeness, in some deep dark dungeon.
I've seen lots of mentions of similar games, (Dark Souls/Dragon Age, etc?). What are the similar games in this genre, and do any of them have combat systems as fun as this one? Something to look into picking up once I'm done with DD.
about using a pawn for a long time: Lady Olivia. Been my standard healing mage for a looong time. Seems like her owner (think it's OnSlaught) hasn't leveled her in a bit, still on level 31, and I'm about 38 now.
GrandHarrier
Member
Yep. I've got a half dozen "friends" (randoms I've met and chatted with in party chat on XBL) and a few of them have managed to keep up in the level curve to the point that I've had one or two of them pretty consistently, releasing and pulling them back in for updated stats.
And I've been pretty obsessive about my Pawn's hair. Which is now moot cause of the helmet. But boy you better believe I was rocking the Leather Circlet for dozens of levels, just because it didn't hide the hair!
I'm always finding something new and better, whether it be a head piece, armour, clothing, etc., for myself or my pawn. Sure, I'm not finding whole sets in short periods of time, but I am always finding something useful.
You're right about the weapons, though. I'm always finding weapons I don't want/need.
GrandHarrier
Member
Maybe I just have bad luck then. I've had the same armor, save a new cloak, for like 20+ levels now.
Yea this is VERY much a loot game, not sure what they were getting at. Lots of unique and varied loot to be had.
Alright, so this is the loot I got:
Pics:
Alright, so this is the loot I got:
Lambent Shield, Totem Mace, Volant White, Heaven's Key, Siegfried Mask, and the Abyssal armor set, +20 of those revive stones
Pics:
incoming!!!!!
www.abload.de/img/dragonsdogmascreensho91gis.jpg
mega damage mode
www.abload.de/img/dragonsdogmascreenshojmfw1.jpg
dead!
www.abload.de/img/dragonsdogmascreenshouqcfx.jpg
No loot? hahahhhaha, thanks for the joke GiantBomb
www.abload.de/img/dragonsdogmascreenshobgcqm.jpg
new mask, shield, and staff
www.abload.de/img/dragonsdogmascreenshof0cyj.jpg
www.abload.de/img/dragonsdogmascreensho91gis.jpg
mega damage mode
www.abload.de/img/dragonsdogmascreenshojmfw1.jpg
dead!
www.abload.de/img/dragonsdogmascreenshouqcfx.jpg
No loot? hahahhhaha, thanks for the joke GiantBomb
www.abload.de/img/dragonsdogmascreenshobgcqm.jpg
new mask, shield, and staff
www.abload.de/img/dragonsdogmascreenshof0cyj.jpg
Alcoholikaust
Member
I loved the demo and got the full game but after a few hours it's steering towards KoA: Reckoning territory. Fun at first then boring.
Skyrim and Diablo trump the game in constantly showing you something new as you progress.
The world in DD seems so boring.
I will play some more but for now (4 hours in) I'm not digging it.
Skyrim and Diablo trump the game in constantly showing you something new as you progress.
The world in DD seems so boring.
I will play some more but for now (4 hours in) I'm not digging it.
It depends really, I've heard people getting better loot randomly than the ones they buy from stores, but mine pretty much were from merchants, with a few pieces from dungeons, I stopped getting useful loot since level 20 and I'm now lvl35
So... snow, trees, tall white people?
GrandHarrier
Member
It really has to be some massively skewed level scaling. Because I've heard people have issues with getting Dragon Forged gear, and like, 5 of my items were Dragon Forged after my first Drake fight. But nothing since. (2 other Drakes).
I keep getting Staves and Maces. I swear I've got like 3x of some of those Maces.
I tend to explore a lot. I haven't even done very many quests. As I travel and discover, I have to explore it. It'll probably bite me in the ass later when I have to retread all this old ground again.
Also, holy shit. High Maelstrom looks so badass. Sucked like 5 Sulfur Saurians up and whipped them around like rag dolls. haha, amazing.
It's certainly better than many role playing games in this regard, though. Not to beat the vs. Skyrim drum again, but the loot is a hell of a lot better here. There are more materials to be found that actually have more use, such as for upgrading gear. I found way more junk in Skyrim by far. To the point to where exploring all of these beautiful caves and dungeons just felt pointless.
Just from looking at the guide, there are loads of weapons, armor and useful items to be bought or found. I just feel more reward and drive to explore here. Plus, the fact that chests and such regenerate after a few days and I may get something even better when I come back later just adds to it.
ThirtyPlus
Member
Okay maybe I'm missing it but how to you start a new game+?
God, jackpot.
I'd recommend Strider/Ranger honestly. Just do a full party of that and stock up on curatives to keep downtime(and thus amount of damage you can do overall) at a minimum.
I did it NG+ w/ a rank 6 Fighter(didn't even do the
Gran Soren escort quest to change back to my previous Ranger vocation
It isn't explained super well, but you need to:
-Finish the main quest obviously
-Jump into the pit and fight the "bosses" to get the 20 wakestones(can fight Ur-Dragon at this time as well)
-Once you've got 20 it will start the road to NG+
-Jump into the pit and fight the "bosses" to get the 20 wakestones(can fight Ur-Dragon at this time as well)
-Once you've got 20 it will start the road to NG+
slaughterking
Member
A bunch of story stuff just happened and now I don't even know if I'm in the post game or still the end game. For a moment it definitely looked like I beat the game and then a lot of weird stuff happened and I don't even know what's going on anymore. I'm really not paying any attention to the story . Haha.
I noticed a brief lesbian cut scene with my MC, though. That made me scratch my head.
I noticed a brief lesbian cut scene with my MC, though. That made me scratch my head.
Yeah, compared to most of the offline rpgs it's certainly doing a good job with variety, not to mention this is a game from capcom, games like dragon age and ME2 were really lacking in terms of loot
Sorry I can't help but you did make me laugh. It looks like you have just summed up every good Japanese game ever made.
Hey guys I'm about to do an escort quest. Is Shadow Fort that structure near Witchwood?
Willllll do.
slaughterking
Member
IIRC he was referring to enemies and bosses not giving you any loot (as in actual equipment like weapons or armor) and that is true.
Haha, no kidding.
It's quite a bit north of witchwood.
slaughterking
Member
Nope, you can take your time.
Dommel
Member
Magick Archer with the Exploding Rivet skill and two melee pawns is just unbelievable.
I tag the bad guys with Exploding Rivet and as soon as they get a melee hit they explode into the air.
Bodies flying everywhere while i just stand there picking them off one by one, occasionally hitting a runaway myself.
So good.
I tag the bad guys with Exploding Rivet and as soon as they get a melee hit they explode into the air.
Bodies flying everywhere while i just stand there picking them off one by one, occasionally hitting a runaway myself.
So good.