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[yurinka]

I have yet to see a proper analytical report to support your claim. Everything I saw support stagnation/regression in developed market and expansion in developing.
Your attitude "this and that are just exception" shows typical coping.

I'm the one who almost always post the receipts or at least checks proper sources, if something you guys who claim the opposite of what the market data says are the ones who should post your source to support your claims.

There is not a single report from any serious market analysis firm mentioning any decrease in PC worldwide playerbase or revenue in the recent years or as a forecast to decrease in the next years. But I'll be happy to see it if I missed something.

Newzoo as of this month:

Epyllion refurbishment of IDG+Pelham Smithers+others data:

WHAT?
No, in Asia and Japan in particular it was 100% mobile, there were very few PC oriented gacha games and they were at the bottom on the list. It was Genshin that brought gacha to AAA and to PC/Console space.
Before Genshin all top grossing gacha games were mobile only.

Stop mading up stuff, I shown you are wrong.

Live service games started in PC many years before mobile gaming started, with games like Everquest and similar in the late 90s, later became bigger with games like WoW in the early/mid 00s, and PC GaaS started to go F2P, with games like the two who swapped the top 1 and top 2 position of top grossing PC game during way over a decade: League of Legends and Dungeon Fighter Online until got replaced in the top 1 by Fortnite in PC, dominating the market and having lootboxes (like paid GaaS like CoD) years before Genshin was released.

Mobile gaming started in 2001/2002. I started to work in mobile games in 2005 in a company that achieved top 4 worldwide in the market in the pre-smartphones (mostly Java) era. Back then mobile games they were paid games. Around 2008 the first iPhone was released, some time after the iPod Touch was released. That year my studio made the first game of our country that became top 1 in the Apple App Store. Around that time, we also started to make F2P in browser games, for the Facebook which also released that year, and became top 4 worldwide in that market too. Our (not just our team, the competition too) inspiration was a mixture of the casual game pages browser games and PC GaaS that started to make a lot of money as F2Ps, and started to implement complex in-game economies and progression curves. I remember that in 2008 there were Chinese MMORPGs that already have lootboxes a.k.a. gatcha.

Maybe a year or two later after the AppStore released, started to be mainstream there first to price the games at $0.99, and later to also have a free demo. Which evolved into having the demo with an in-game purchase to unlock the full game for $0.99. Which evolved to have 3 or 4 different IAPs, and then I think it was maybe around 2011-2013, all the casual browser games companies started to release versions of the FB games (with complex F2P economies) in mobile too, and maybe a year or two later left FB to focus only on mobile. We also became top 4 company in the AppStore. The top game in Asia back then was Puzzle & Dragons , which also featured lootboxes/gatcha around 2012-2013 or so, while in the west the top game was my former coworkers' Clash of Clans (from Finland, not Japanese), who time later also implemented lootboxes.

GaaS and F2Ps kept evolving in PC and mobile (both in the west and in Asia) and I don't remember when exactly (I'd say early PS4 days, somewhere 2013-2015) the loot boxes -what you call gatcha, it's the Japanese name that comes from the Gatchapon machines, the ones with a random mini toy- started to become popular in many PC and mobile GaaS, aprox. at the time Destiny started to popularize GaaS in consoles. A few years later, lootboxes started to become popular in console shooters and other console GaaS too, and later Fortnite and PUBG were released in 2017 and became a huge success.

Gensin Impact wasn't released until years after all this, 2020. And wasn't the top grossing F2P of PSN F2P games as I said before. It wasn't either the top grossing game in mobile that year. The top 1 and 2 were PUBG Mobile and Honor of Kings (both previous games.

You just inventing various bullshit.

No, I'm explaining easily facts and posting receipts, while you are mading up stuff out of your ass.

Covid is a rising tide that lifting all boats. Do we see it in mobile or physical on the graph? No. Because Japan didn't have so much of Covid splurt so effect was rather meek and not that noticeable.

In PC the covid bump is there in a PC and specially (as I said also caused by the PS5 release and due to normal lifecycle points the peak year of the Switch) digital console game revenue bump.

But yes, compared with the worldwide numbers covid bump it's almost unnoticed in Japan.

Japan:

Worldwide:

Genshin on other hand earned roughly 3-5bil USD in the first year, around 30% of it comes from Japan, and paying customers are concentrated on PC/console.

What is your source to say around 30% comes from Japan and that their paying customers are concentrated in PC/console? Sounds like total bullshit out of your ass, because Japan is a pretty small percentage of both mobile gaming and PlayStation, and mobile is a way larger market than PlayStation everywhere, but in this case both worldwide and Japan (and in the top 2 countries where pretty likely Genshin made more money: China and USA).

It's a huge number that completely changed landscape going forward

It's a number that didn't change a shit because as I shown you wasn't even the top 1 game of the year in mobile or in PlayStation. Many games achieved more than this both before and later.

As reference a friend and former coworker of mine was (and I assume still is) one of the top producers of Monopoly Go!, a Spanish game that made in 2 years over $5B so far. GTAV made over $10B. Roblox (released in 2017, 3 years before Genshin) made over $12B, of it $3.6B last year alone. And there are many more like Candy Crush, Minecraft, Clash of Clans must also be over $10B, Fortnite, PUBG, CoD, LoL, Apex Legends, FIFA/EA FC and many more from both mobile or PC/console.

We are talking about JAPAN. Not EU and US.

No, you started now to talk about Japan in this post, but we weren't talking about Japan before

You are completely uninformed on this. Japan is the second biggest market for chinese gachas, and they both contribute 80-90% of typical anime gacha revenue. Western revenue for those games are tiny compared to core market that was, is and probably will be for a long time - Asia.

I'm the one posting receipts and mentioning facts that can be double checke. You're the one who is talking about something you have no idea, telling lies and not backing any of your lies.

 

[Felessan]

I'm the one who almost always post the receipts or at least checks proper sources, if something you guys who claim the opposite of what the market data says are the ones who should post your source to support your claims.
There is not a single report from any serious market analysis firm mentioning any decrease in PC worldwide playerbase or revenue in the recent years or as a forecast to decrease in the next years. But I'll be happy to see it if I missed something.

Famitsu is a serious source, even if it doesn't fit your believes.
And there is not a single report from any serious market analysis firm mentioning any significant increase in developed countries PC playerbase.
You are so hard trying to shift discussion from basic statement - "playerwise west stagnate/recess, east expand, ww expand" - you have zero factual data that can oppose this statement so you are bringing some bullshit about WW blablabla that doesn't really contradict this statement

Stop mading up stuff, I shown you are wrong.
Live service games started in PC many years before mobile gaming started, with games like Everquest and similar in the late 90s, later became bigger with games like WoW in the early/mid 00s, and PC GaaS started to go F2P, with games like the two who swapped the top 1 and top 2 position of top grossing PC game during way over a decade: League of Legends and Dungeon Fighter Online until got replaced in the top 1 by Fortnite in PC, dominating the market and having lootboxes (like paid GaaS like CoD) years before Genshin was released.

What does this have to do with **JAPAN**?
Can you follow discussion and not just random post some data no one asked? We are talking about explicitly about Japan revenue jump, not some LoL data from 00's.

Mobile gaming started in 2001/2002. I started to work in mobile games in 2005 in a company that achieved top 4 worldwide in the market in the pre-smartphones (mostly Java) era. Back then mobile games they were paid games. Around 2008 the first iPhone was released, some time after the iPod Touch was released. That year my studio made the first game of our country that became top 1 in the Apple App Store. Around that time, we also started to make F2P in browser games, for the Facebook which also released that year, and became top 4 worldwide in that market too. Our (not just our team, the competition too) inspiration was a mixture of the casual game pages browser games and PC GaaS that started to make a lot of money as F2Ps, and started to implement complex in-game economies and progression curves. I remember that in 2008 there were Chinese MMORPGs that already have lootboxes a.k.a. gatcha.

Chinese (and Korean) MMO of that time were not gacha based in modern terms. There were a very complex structure of monetization, some parts of it include randomization of rewards (loot boxes) but it never was a core mechanics where monetization revolves around it.
And Chinese at that time was like 95% enclosed space not spilling outside. Japan made it on their own, based on their real-life toys selling mechanics.

GaaS and F2Ps kept evolving in PC and mobile (both in the west and in Asia) and I don't remember when exactly (I'd say early PS4 days, somewhere 2013-2015) the loot boxes -what you call gatcha, it's the Japanese name that comes from the Gatchapon machines, the ones with a random mini toy- started to become popular in many PC and mobile GaaS, aprox. at the time Destiny started to popularize GaaS in consoles. A few years later, lootboxes started to become popular in console shooters and other console GaaS too, and later Fortnite and PUBG were released in 2017 and became a huge success.

Japan gacha rise (and later onslaught that literally killed 80-90% of their non-mobile industry) started in 2012 with Puzzle&Dragons and it was first game of it's kind paving way for others. Then Monster Strike took the crown and gachas really took of - but they were mostly confined inside of Japan. Most never gone out and many quickly closed western servers, similar how japanese games behave in pre-mobile era where half of the games were explicitly for local market. They had some presence in other Asia/West but majority of success was from local market. By the time Genshin launched mobile dominated Japanese market like nowhere else, Nintendo went into niche of mostly kids games and Playstation, along with PC, declined heavily.

Gensin Impact wasn't released until years after all this, 2020. And wasn't the top grossing F2P of PSN F2P games as I said before. It wasn't either the top grossing game in mobile that year. The top 1 and 2 were PUBG Mobile and Honor of Kings (both previous games.

Why do you keep posting a) WW numbers when we are talking about Japam, Japan is not WW it's situation completely different, b) why are you bringing ~mobile~ revenue when we are talking about PC/Console revenue jump in Japan?
And btw - SensorTower is a known joke for revenue outside US, it's know nothing about Chinese revenue and messed numbers so often so no one believes it for WW chinese gacha revenue.

No, I'm explaining easily facts and posting receipts, while you are mading up stuff out of your ass.

By mixing WW numbers to Japan all the time? good job, lol

In PC the covid bump is there in a PC and specially (as I said also caused by the PS5 release and due to normal lifecycle points the peak year of the Switch) digital console game revenue bump.

Or it can be explained by other things and you just choose to believe in unbased fantasies of yours. If it was Covid bump - there should be post-covid slump which is clearly visible on western graph. There is no of such for PC in Famitsu graph.

What is your source to say around 30% comes from Japan and that their paying customers are concentrated in PC/console? Sounds like total bullshit out of your ass, because Japan is a pretty small percentage of both mobile gaming and PlayStation, and mobile is a way larger market than PlayStation everywhere, but in this case both worldwide and Japan (and in the top 2 countries where pretty likely Genshin made more money: China and USA).

30% is from Mihoyo. And to put at perspective just how "small" those gacha are, Playstation earned 1 billion USD in first 2 years on Genshin.
Mobile earns a lot on older/more casual stuff, revenue for modern AAA gacha shifted out as it's more convinient (and not only for gacha - Fortnite revenue too mostly non-mobile even though mobile has most players)

It's a number that didn't change a shit because as I shown you wasn't even the top 1 game of the year in mobile or in PlayStation. Many games achieved more than this both before and later.

WW. On bullshit numbers. How it relates to ~Japan~ revenue?
And btw - Mihoyo earns roughly 6-7 bil an year and at it's peak Genshin alone was around 4-5 bil an year. Mihoyo is huge in Asia.

As reference a friend and former coworker of mine was (and I assume still is) one of the top producers of Monopoly Go!, a Spanish game that made in 2 years over $5B so far. GTAV made over $10B. Roblox (released in 2017, 3 years before Genshin) made over $12B, of it $3.6B last year alone. And there are many more like Candy Crush, Minecraft, Clash of Clans must also be over $10B, Fortnite, PUBG, CoD, LoL, Apex Legends, FIFA/EA FC and many more from both mobile or PC/console.

Blablabla who cares. You try to flaunt a lot as if it matters. I am from banking/IB so your "I worked on project blablabla" means nothing to me (not relevant data point and not a trustable source), and I keep an eye for gaming market as a hobby.

No, you started now to talk about Japan in this post, but we weren't talking about Japan before

We were talking about Famitsu and particular graph. Famitsu reflecting Japan, not some WW bulshit your use to try to steer discussion.
For WW numbers I already told reality - west stagnates, east expands, total also expands.

I'm the one posting receipts and mentioning facts that can be double checke. You're the one who is talking about something you have no idea, telling lies and not backing any of your lies.

You just posting some shit no one asked that have little relevance to discussion.