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[yurinka]

I have yet to see a proper analytical report to support your claim. Everything I saw support stagnation/regression in developed market and expansion in developing.
Your attitude "this and that are just exception" shows typical coping.

I'm the one who almost always post the receipts or at least checks proper sources, if something you guys who claim the opposite of what the market data says are the ones who should post your source to support your claims.

There is not a single report from any serious market analysis firm mentioning any decrease in PC worldwide playerbase or revenue in the recent years or as a forecast to decrease in the next years. But I'll be happy to see it if I missed something.

Newzoo as of this month:

Epyllion refurbishment of IDG+Pelham Smithers+others data:

WHAT?
No, in Asia and Japan in particular it was 100% mobile, there were very few PC oriented gacha games and they were at the bottom on the list. It was Genshin that brought gacha to AAA and to PC/Console space.
Before Genshin all top grossing gacha games were mobile only.

Stop mading up stuff, I shown you are wrong.

Live service games started in PC many years before mobile gaming started, with games like Everquest and similar in the late 90s, later became bigger with games like WoW in the early/mid 00s, and PC GaaS started to go F2P, with games like the two who swapped the top 1 and top 2 position of top grossing PC game during way over a decade: League of Legends and Dungeon Fighter Online until got replaced in the top 1 by Fortnite in PC, dominating the market and having lootboxes (like paid GaaS like CoD) years before Genshin was released.

Mobile gaming started in 2001/2002. I started to work in mobile games in 2005 in a company that achieved top 4 worldwide in the market in the pre-smartphones (mostly Java) era. Back then mobile games they were paid games. Around 2008 the first iPhone was released, some time after the iPod Touch was released. That year my studio made the first game of our country that became top 1 in the Apple App Store. Around that time, we also started to make F2P in browser games, for the Facebook which also released that year, and became top 4 worldwide in that market too. Our (not just our team, the competition too) inspiration was a mixture of the casual game pages browser games and PC GaaS that started to make a lot of money as F2Ps, and started to implement complex in-game economies and progression curves. I remember that in 2008 there were Chinese MMORPGs that already have lootboxes a.k.a. gatcha.

Maybe a year or two later after the AppStore released, started to be mainstream there first to price the games at $0.99, and later to also have a free demo. Which evolved into having the demo with an in-game purchase to unlock the full game for $0.99. Which evolved to have 3 or 4 different IAPs, and then I think it was maybe around 2011-2013, all the casual browser games companies started to release versions of the FB games (with complex F2P economies) in mobile too, and maybe a year or two later left FB to focus only on mobile. We also became top 4 company in the AppStore. The top game in Asia back then was Puzzle & Dragons , which also featured lootboxes/gatcha around 2012-2013 or so, while in the west the top game was my former coworkers' Clash of Clans (from Finland, not Japanese), who time later also implemented lootboxes.

GaaS and F2Ps kept evolving in PC and mobile (both in the west and in Asia) and I don't remember when exactly (I'd say early PS4 days, somewhere 2013-2015) the loot boxes -what you call gatcha, it's the Japanese name that comes from the Gatchapon machines, the ones with a random mini toy- started to become popular in many PC and mobile GaaS, aprox. at the time Destiny started to popularize GaaS in consoles. A few years later, lootboxes started to become popular in console shooters and other console GaaS too, and later Fortnite and PUBG were released in 2017 and became a huge success.

Gensin Impact wasn't released until years after all this, 2020. And wasn't the top grossing F2P of PSN F2P games as I said before. It wasn't either the top grossing game in mobile that year. The top 1 and 2 were PUBG Mobile and Honor of Kings (both previous games.

You just inventing various bullshit.

No, I'm explaining easily facts and posting receipts, while you are mading up stuff out of your ass.

Covid is a rising tide that lifting all boats. Do we see it in mobile or physical on the graph? No. Because Japan didn't have so much of Covid splurt so effect was rather meek and not that noticeable.

In Japan the covid bump is there in a PC and specially (as I said also caused by the PS5 release and due to normal lifecycle points the peak year of the Switch) digital console game revenue bump.

But yes, compared with the worldwide numbers covid bump it's almost unnoticed in Japan.

Japan:

Worldwide:

Genshin on other hand earned roughly 3-5bil USD in the first year, around 30% of it comes from Japan, and paying customers are concentrated on PC/console.

What is your source to say around 30% comes from Japan and that their paying customers are concentrated in PC/console? Sounds like total bullshit out of your ass, because Japan is a pretty small percentage of both mobile gaming and PlayStation, and mobile is a way larger market than PlayStation everywhere, but in this case both worldwide and Japan (and in the top 2 countries where pretty likely Genshin made more money: China and USA).

It's a huge number that completely changed landscape going forward

It's a number that didn't change a shit because as I shown you wasn't even the top 1 game of the year in mobile or in PlayStation. Many games achieved more than this both before and later.

As reference a friend and former coworker of mine was (and I assume still is) one of the top producers of Monopoly Go!, a Spanish game that made in 2 years over $5B so far. GTAV made over $10B. Roblox (released in 2017, 3 years before Genshin) made over $12B, of it $3.6B last year alone. And there are many more like Candy Crush, Minecraft, Clash of Clans must also be over $10B, Fortnite, PUBG, CoD, LoL, Apex Legends, FIFA/EA FC and many more from both mobile or PC/console.

We are talking about JAPAN. Not EU and US.

No, you started now to talk about Japan in this post, but we weren't talking about Japan before

You are completely uninformed on this. Japan is the second biggest market for chinese gachas, and they both contribute 80-90% of typical anime gacha revenue. Western revenue for those games are tiny compared to core market that was, is and probably will be for a long time - Asia.

I'm the one posting receipts and mentioning facts that can be double checke. You're the one who is talking about something you have no idea, telling lies and not backing any of your lies.

 

[Felessan]

I'm the one who almost always post the receipts or at least checks proper sources, if something you guys who claim the opposite of what the market data says are the ones who should post your source to support your claims.
There is not a single report from any serious market analysis firm mentioning any decrease in PC worldwide playerbase or revenue in the recent years or as a forecast to decrease in the next years. But I'll be happy to see it if I missed something.

Famitsu is a serious source, even if it doesn't fit your believes.
And there is not a single report from any serious market analysis firm mentioning any significant increase in developed countries PC playerbase.
You are so hard trying to shift discussion from basic statement - "playerwise west stagnate/recess, east expand, ww expand" - you have zero factual data that can oppose this statement so you are bringing some bullshit about WW blablabla that doesn't really contradict this statement

Stop mading up stuff, I shown you are wrong.
Live service games started in PC many years before mobile gaming started, with games like Everquest and similar in the late 90s, later became bigger with games like WoW in the early/mid 00s, and PC GaaS started to go F2P, with games like the two who swapped the top 1 and top 2 position of top grossing PC game during way over a decade: League of Legends and Dungeon Fighter Online until got replaced in the top 1 by Fortnite in PC, dominating the market and having lootboxes (like paid GaaS like CoD) years before Genshin was released.

What does this have to do with **JAPAN**?
Can you follow discussion and not just random post some data no one asked? We are talking about explicitly about Japan revenue jump, not some LoL data from 00's.

Mobile gaming started in 2001/2002. I started to work in mobile games in 2005 in a company that achieved top 4 worldwide in the market in the pre-smartphones (mostly Java) era. Back then mobile games they were paid games. Around 2008 the first iPhone was released, some time after the iPod Touch was released. That year my studio made the first game of our country that became top 1 in the Apple App Store. Around that time, we also started to make F2P in browser games, for the Facebook which also released that year, and became top 4 worldwide in that market too. Our (not just our team, the competition too) inspiration was a mixture of the casual game pages browser games and PC GaaS that started to make a lot of money as F2Ps, and started to implement complex in-game economies and progression curves. I remember that in 2008 there were Chinese MMORPGs that already have lootboxes a.k.a. gatcha.

Chinese (and Korean) MMO of that time were not gacha based in modern terms. There were a very complex structure of monetization, some parts of it include randomization of rewards (loot boxes) but it never was a core mechanics where monetization revolves around it.
And Chinese at that time was like 95% enclosed space not spilling outside. Japan made it on their own, based on their real-life toys selling mechanics.

GaaS and F2Ps kept evolving in PC and mobile (both in the west and in Asia) and I don't remember when exactly (I'd say early PS4 days, somewhere 2013-2015) the loot boxes -what you call gatcha, it's the Japanese name that comes from the Gatchapon machines, the ones with a random mini toy- started to become popular in many PC and mobile GaaS, aprox. at the time Destiny started to popularize GaaS in consoles. A few years later, lootboxes started to become popular in console shooters and other console GaaS too, and later Fortnite and PUBG were released in 2017 and became a huge success.

Japan gacha rise (and later onslaught that literally killed 80-90% of their non-mobile industry) started in 2012 with Puzzle&Dragons and it was first game of it's kind paving way for others. Then Monster Strike took the crown and gachas really took of - but they were mostly confined inside of Japan. Most never gone out and many quickly closed western servers, similar how japanese games behave in pre-mobile era where half of the games were explicitly for local market. They had some presence in other Asia/West but majority of success was from local market. By the time Genshin launched mobile dominated Japanese market like nowhere else, Nintendo went into niche of mostly kids games and Playstation, along with PC, declined heavily.

Gensin Impact wasn't released until years after all this, 2020. And wasn't the top grossing F2P of PSN F2P games as I said before. It wasn't either the top grossing game in mobile that year. The top 1 and 2 were PUBG Mobile and Honor of Kings (both previous games.

Why do you keep posting a) WW numbers when we are talking about Japam, Japan is not WW it's situation completely different, b) why are you bringing ~mobile~ revenue when we are talking about PC/Console revenue jump in Japan?
And btw - SensorTower is a known joke for revenue outside US, it's know nothing about Chinese revenue and messed numbers so often so no one believes it for WW chinese gacha revenue.

No, I'm explaining easily facts and posting receipts, while you are mading up stuff out of your ass.

By mixing WW numbers to Japan all the time? good job, lol

In PC the covid bump is there in a PC and specially (as I said also caused by the PS5 release and due to normal lifecycle points the peak year of the Switch) digital console game revenue bump.

Or it can be explained by other things and you just choose to believe in unbased fantasies of yours. If it was Covid bump - there should be post-covid slump which is clearly visible on western graph. There is no of such for PC in Famitsu graph.

What is your source to say around 30% comes from Japan and that their paying customers are concentrated in PC/console? Sounds like total bullshit out of your ass, because Japan is a pretty small percentage of both mobile gaming and PlayStation, and mobile is a way larger market than PlayStation everywhere, but in this case both worldwide and Japan (and in the top 2 countries where pretty likely Genshin made more money: China and USA).

30% is from Mihoyo. And to put at perspective just how "small" those gacha are, Playstation earned 1 billion USD in first 2 years on Genshin.
Mobile earns a lot on older/more casual stuff, revenue for modern AAA gacha shifted out as it's more convinient (and not only for gacha - Fortnite revenue too mostly non-mobile even though mobile has most players)

It's a number that didn't change a shit because as I shown you wasn't even the top 1 game of the year in mobile or in PlayStation. Many games achieved more than this both before and later.

WW. On bullshit numbers. How it relates to ~Japan~ revenue?
And btw - Mihoyo earns roughly 6-7 bil an year and at it's peak Genshin alone was around 4-5 bil an year. Mihoyo is huge in Asia.

As reference a friend and former coworker of mine was (and I assume still is) one of the top producers of Monopoly Go!, a Spanish game that made in 2 years over $5B so far. GTAV made over $10B. Roblox (released in 2017, 3 years before Genshin) made over $12B, of it $3.6B last year alone. And there are many more like Candy Crush, Minecraft, Clash of Clans must also be over $10B, Fortnite, PUBG, CoD, LoL, Apex Legends, FIFA/EA FC and many more from both mobile or PC/console.

Blablabla who cares. You try to flaunt a lot as if it matters. I am from banking/IB so your "I worked on project blablabla" means nothing to me (not relevant data point and not a trustable source), and I keep an eye for gaming market as a hobby.

No, you started now to talk about Japan in this post, but we weren't talking about Japan before

We were talking about Famitsu and particular graph. Famitsu reflecting Japan, not some WW bulshit your use to try to steer discussion.
For WW numbers I already told reality - west stagnates, east expands, total also expands.

I'm the one posting receipts and mentioning facts that can be double checke. You're the one who is talking about something you have no idea, telling lies and not backing any of your lies.

You just posting some shit no one asked that have little relevance to discussion.

 

[yurinka]

Famitsu is a serious source, even if it doesn't fit your believes.

I'm the one who posted and explained the Famitsu source.

And there is not a single report from any serious market analysis firm mentioning any significant increase in developed countries PC playerbase.

Wrong, as seen in what I shared.

You are so hard trying to shift discussion from basic statement - "playerwise west stagnate/recess, east expand, ww expand"

No, nobody was talking about this.

- you have zero factual data

Go fuck yourself and learn to read. I'm the one posting factual data here with proper sources. You are mading up stuff out of your ass without posting anything to prove your claims.

What does this have to do with **JAPAN**?
Can you follow discussion and not just random post some data no one asked?

It has nothing to do with Japan because this thread isn't about Japan and nobody was talking about Japan. We were talking about PC in the worldwide market. That other part was talking about the gatcha games, known in English as 'live service games with lootboxes' or 'lootboxes', which isn't anything exclusive or related to Japan.

Chinese (and Korean) MMO of that time were not gacha based in modern terms.

Japan gacha rise (and later onslaught that literally killed 80-90% of their non-mobile industry) started in 2012 with Puzzle&Dragons

Bullshit.

Zhengtu Online, Chinese MMORPG from 2007, was the first live service game to implement lootoxes (a.k.a. gatcha) and experienced a huge success and growth since its first year, so most of the other top Chinese and Korean MMOs back then (Fantasy Westward Journey, New World, Lineage 2, Perfect World, Aion...) quickly adopted the mechanic.

Western games took a bit later to copy them, as was the case of FIFA 09, Team Fortress 2 (in 2010), Star Trek Online (2010) or TLOR Online (2011).

These and many had lootboxes a.k.a. gatcha before Puzzle & Dragons was released.

By the time Genshin launched mobile dominated Japanese market like nowhere else

Not true, mobile already dominated Japan and the rest of the markets way before 2020.

Why do you keep posting a) WW numbers when we are talking about Japam, Japan is not WW it's situation completely different

Because we were talking worldwide and in any case Germany, not about Japan. You're the only one who in the previous post started to talk about Japan.

, b) why are you bringing ~mobile~ revenue when we are talking about PC/Console revenue jump in Japan?

To prove that your fantasy about Genshin Impact changing the Japanese gaming industry -or the worldwide PlayStation or mobile markets when I posted the related rankings- is just that, a fantasy totally unrelated to the reality.

30% is from Mihoyo.

In your dreams maybe, but not in the real world. Stop lying and show any proper source to back this 30% claim.

On bullshit numbers.

Blablabla who cares.

You just posting some shit no one asked that have little relevance to discussion.

No, you moron. It's called factual objective data from proper credible sources that proves you wrong.

What normal people use in debates to back their claims, unlike your case of inventing stuff and having nothing to back your fantasies.

We were talking about Famitsu and particular graph. Famitsu reflecting Japan, not some WW bulshit your use to try to steer discussion.

No, I shared the Famitsu graph to correct part of your quote and show the difference with the worlwide numbers and highlight the case of PC, because Japan is only a small part of the worlwdide market and has a slightly different behaviour (isn't representative of the WW market), and we were talking about PC Worldwide.

I also shared it before to correct other false claim about the PC Japanese market, somebody who claimed something like that the PC worldwide should be in decline because the PC market in Japan was supposedly in decline according to Famitsu (what Famitsu said was that the PC Japanese userbase aged 5-59 years old decreased a bit in these 10 years but the PC revenue in Japan grew a lot during the same period).

 

[Felessan]

I'm the one who posted and explained the Famitsu source.

And I pointed out that your explanation is flawed and of no basis.

Wrong, as seen in what I shared.

Blablabla. WW numbers are not a proof. Just learn what a proper proof means.

No, nobody was talking about this.

You have you own imaginary world of truth it seems. People you argued on this topics have quite coherent position -

Revenue has definitely gone up across the board. The PC population has decreased in several markets though and it can be argued so has the console population too despite this revenue growth. The source isn't VGlolz, the source isn't fanboy guesstimates, the PC decline globally is predicted by Jon Peddie Research a firm a lot of PC fanboys normally cite. it's Game.de from YouGov data for Germany. It's Famitsu for Japan. None of it is VGChartz.

PC stagnates in developed countries, sometimes even shrinks as PC there mostly enthusiasts gaming and it suffer greatly from raising prices

Go fuck yourself and learn to read. I'm the one posting factual data here with proper sources. You are mading up stuff out of your ass without posting anything to prove your claims.

You can't even read yourself or keep a discussion and already degrade. Good job, lol.
You post something you barely understands and thinks just because you are a tiny bit insider that knows better that complete laymen (like 80% of forum) you are high enough to sprout bullshit. Lol, good luck.

It has nothing to do with Japan because this thread isn't about Japan and nobody was talking about Japan.

This particular discussion IS about japan as it was started by Japanese graph. Just tell that you fucked up and wrong and we will forget everything.

We were talking about PC in the worldwide market.

You can't discern details? too hard for you? Context switching is too heavy?
And even talking about WW worldwide market there were explicit statement that "PC market is not uniform" that you steadily ignore and push narrative that everything is the same

That other part was talking about the gatcha games, known in English as 'live service games with lootboxes' or 'lootboxes', which isn't anything exclusive or related to Japan.

Show me a western game with a ~gacha~ mechanics as in gacha games, Not some bullshit you are trying to pretend to be the same thing.

Bullshit.
Zhengtu Online, Chinese MMORPG from 2007, was the first live service game to implement lootoxes (a.k.a. gatcha) and experienced a huge success and growth since its first year, so most of the other top Chinese and Korean MMOs back then (Fantasy Westward Journey, New World, Lineage 2, Perfect World, Aion...) quickly adopted the mechanic.

Are you an idiot? Those have no gacha. You seems to google stuff and never played ANY of this game. L2 or PW are gacha games? Tell me moar, please.

Not true, mobile already dominated Japan and the rest of the markets way before 2020.

Ya, ya, in your dreamy world. The first massive success of mobile game that earns more than 1bn USD in revenue and set a precedent was Puzzle& Dragons. It was so big of an impact that it swipe Japanese market in next 5-8 years.

Because we were talking worldwide and in any case Germany, not about Japan. You're the only one who in the previous post started to talk about Japan.

Sorry, I didn't know... that you have THAT much problems

I'm the one who posted and explained the Famitsu source.

To prove that your fantasy about Genshin Impact changing the Japanese gaming industry -or the worldwide PlayStation or mobile markets when I posted the related rankings- is just that, a fantasy totally unrelated to the reality.

What relation WW number have to do to Japanese market? Are you seriously think that WW market are coherent and JPN market follow the same structure and there is no difference between east and west?
Use Kenia numbers next time, who cares, they are on the same planet.

In your dreams maybe, but not in the real world. Stop lying and show any proper source to back this 30% claim.

Lol, but no. I hope you are an adult enough to do a proper research yourself.

No, you moron. It's called factual objective data from proper credible sources that proves you wrong.

It's called fantasy interpretation of some graphs those have little relevance to topic discussed. Just because you keep posting some random graphs no one care (and those have no relevance to topics) doesn't make your position stronger. We are not in kindergarten where you can startle people by showing off some fancy but random numbers and graphs.

No, I shared the Famitsu graph to correct part of your quote and show the difference with the worlwide numbers and highlight the case of PC, because Japan is only a small part of the worlwdide market and has a slightly different behaviour (isn't representative of the WW market). And we were talking about PC Worldwide.

Your number 1 problem is that you get too emotional and it affect your memory.
It was you that shared Famitsy graph and I even not participated in this sub-thread of discussion prior to this. And I, properly, corrected your statement and provided more believable explanation to whag going on on the graph, to which your flared up and started to behave like a little kid

 

[yurinka]

And I pointed out that your explanation is flawed and of no basis.

Bullshit, you didn't prove wrong anything I mentioned. Only made wrong gueses, some of which I shown were wrong.

Blablabla. WW numbers are not a proof.

Yes, the factual numbers from the oficial sources of something is prof. Stuff out of you ass isn't.

Show me a western game with a ~gacha~ mechanics as in gacha games, Not some bullshit you are trying to pretend to be the same thing.

Learn to read, I posted you several of them.

Ya, ya, in your dreamy world.

Nah, I just see the factual data, which you reject like a gaming flatearther.

The first massive success of mobile game that earns more than 1bn USD in revenue and set a precedent was Puzzle& Dragons.

As I shown you there were many other heavily successful games featuring gacha/lootboxes before the Puzzle & Dragons release. You would understand it if you weren't a gaming flatearther.

Sorry, I didn't know... that you have THAT much problems

I don't have any problem. We were talking about PC worldwide and as part of that somebody pointed out some wrong/incomplete data and I posted the Famitsu (ASCII in realityu) graph to correct it.

What relation WW number have to do to Japanese market? Are you seriously think that WW market are coherent and JPN market follow the same structure and there is no difference between east and west?
Use Kenia numbers next time, who cares, they are on the same planet.

I'm telling you than other than the correction I did regarding the Japanese mention we were talking about the worldwide market, you were the only one who was refering to Japan.

That's why when you made out that Genshin somewhat invented gachas causing a revolution in PC/console I told you it wasn't the case at all, showing the WW numbers.

Your number 1 problem is that you get too emotional and it affect your memory.

In your dreams

And I, properly, corrected your statement and provided more believable explanation to whag going on on the graph, to which your flared up and started to behave like a little kid

You didn't correct a shit, you just made out wrong crap like "Genshin that brought gacha to AAA and to PC/Console space", "Before Genshin all top grossing gacha games were mobile only.", "Genshin on other hand earned roughly 3-5bil USD in the first year, around 30% of it comes from Japan, and paying customers are concentrated on PC/console".

P.S.: Genshin reached $3.7B 2 years after launch (not one), with Japan making 24% of that (not 30%):
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/genshin-impact-makes-37-billion-in-mobile-lifetime-revenue

 

[leo-j]

not really if you include switch you have two players going past 100M which is pretty big.

 

[Felessan]

Yes, the factual numbers from the oficial sources of something is prof. Stuff out of you ass isn't.

You have a SERIOUS issues with logic. WW numbers do not work to counter statement like "Revenue has definitely gone up across the board. The PC population has decreased in several markets though", because talk is not about WW, and not about revenue, but specific subset of countries and playerbase. And coincidentally you can't provide any reasonable numbers for those so you repeatedly keep posting WW numbers as if it'll work

Learn to read, I posted you several of them.

You just sprouting typical bullshit and bundling thing together you shouldn't. Lootboxes are not gacha, they are lootboxes. Show me a ~gacha~ mechanics as in gacha games.

Nah, I just see the factual data, which you reject like a gaming flatearther.

And you are just astroturfer who have problems with keeping logical line of thoughts.

I don't have any problem. We were talking about PC worldwide and as part of that somebody pointed out some wrong/incomplete data and I posted the Famitsu (ASCII in realityu) graph to correct it.

I commented on ~that particular part~, that you are pulling things out of your ass and paint things in a way they truly aren't. Do you have problem with that?

That's why when you made out that Genshin somewhat invented gachas causing a revolution in PC/console I told you it wasn't the case at all, showing the WW numbers.

It didn't invent gachas, Pazudora did as a specific genre/mechanics. But Genshin did cause a revolution. If you look on Asian game space, 80% of the market now follow Genshin lead, it created a paradigm shift in mobile and even PC/Console gaming.

P.S.: Genshin reached $3.7B 2 years after launch (not one), with Japan making 24% of that (not 30%):
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/genshin-impact-makes-37-billion-in-mobile-lifetime-revenue

~according to new data from Sensor Tower~
Read this, the part about holy grail -
To get actual numbers for Chinese games you need to go into Chinese internet space because those companies reports numbers to government and they sometimes leaked/reported to public, but it's heavily enclosed and live in itself so it's not that easy. Any other numbers are just wild fantasies.

 

[Lionel Richie]

ITT:

But with people calling each other mongoloids.

 

[CitizenKratos]

Xbox and Playstation had more overlap last gen. Game unit sales tell the real story. Playstation is in its best gen ever in terms of profitability.

 

[KungFucius]

Xbox and Playstation had more overlap last gen. Game unit sales tell the real story. Playstation is in its best gen ever in terms of profitability.

But if fewer systems sold than last gen, isn't that at least a concern? Really the profitability could just be the increasing prevalence of digital sales, i.e. Sony taking 30% minimum cut and keeping prices higher because they have a monopoly on the digital PS games.

 

[CLW]

You KNOW what WILL solve this problem? Raising prices on OLD hardware for the 3rd or 4th time - Phil Spencer

 

[asdasdasdbb]

Xbox and Playstation had more overlap last gen. Game unit sales tell the real story. Playstation is in its best gen ever in terms of profitability.

It's not game unit sales. It's PS+ and their cut of third party GAAS.

 

[Danjin44]

I'm the one who almost always post the receipts or at least checks proper sources, if something you guys who claim the opposite of what the market data says are the ones who should post your source to support your claims.

There is not a single report from any serious market analysis firm mentioning any decrease in PC worldwide playerbase or revenue in the recent years or as a forecast to decrease in the next years. But I'll be happy to see it if I missed something.

Newzoo as of this month:

Epyllion refurbishment of IDG+Pelham Smithers+others data:

Stop mading up stuff, I shown you are wrong.

Live service games started in PC many years before mobile gaming started, with games like Everquest and similar in the late 90s, later became bigger with games like WoW in the early/mid 00s, and PC GaaS started to go F2P, with games like the two who swapped the top 1 and top 2 position of top grossing PC game during way over a decade: League of Legends and Dungeon Fighter Online until got replaced in the top 1 by Fortnite in PC, dominating the market and having lootboxes (like paid GaaS like CoD) years before Genshin was released.

Mobile gaming started in 2001/2002. I started to work in mobile games in 2005 in a company that achieved top 4 worldwide in the market in the pre-smartphones (mostly Java) era. Back then mobile games they were paid games. Around 2008 the first iPhone was released, some time after the iPod Touch was released. That year my studio made the first game of our country that became top 1 in the Apple App Store. Around that time, we also started to make F2P in browser games, for the Facebook which also released that year, and became top 4 worldwide in that market too. Our (not just our team, the competition too) inspiration was a mixture of the casual game pages browser games and PC GaaS that started to make a lot of money as F2Ps, and started to implement complex in-game economies and progression curves. I remember that in 2008 there were Chinese MMORPGs that already have lootboxes a.k.a. gatcha.

Maybe a year or two later after the AppStore released, started to be mainstream there first to price the games at $0.99, and later to also have a free demo. Which evolved into having the demo with an in-game purchase to unlock the full game for $0.99. Which evolved to have 3 or 4 different IAPs, and then I think it was maybe around 2011-2013, all the casual browser games companies started to release versions of the FB games (with complex F2P economies) in mobile too, and maybe a year or two later left FB to focus only on mobile. We also became top 4 company in the AppStore. The top game in Asia back then was Puzzle & Dragons , which also featured lootboxes/gatcha around 2012-2013 or so, while in the west the top game was my former coworkers' Clash of Clans (from Finland, not Japanese), who time later also implemented lootboxes.

GaaS and F2Ps kept evolving in PC and mobile (both in the west and in Asia) and I don't remember when exactly (I'd say early PS4 days, somewhere 2013-2015) the loot boxes -what you call gatcha, it's the Japanese name that comes from the Gatchapon machines, the ones with a random mini toy- started to become popular in many PC and mobile GaaS, aprox. at the time Destiny started to popularize GaaS in consoles. A few years later, lootboxes started to become popular in console shooters and other console GaaS too, and later Fortnite and PUBG were released in 2017 and became a huge success.

Gensin Impact wasn't released until years after all this, 2020. And wasn't the top grossing F2P of PSN F2P games as I said before. It wasn't either the top grossing game in mobile that year. The top 1 and 2 were PUBG Mobile and Honor of Kings (both previous games.

No, I'm explaining easily facts and posting receipts, while you are mading up stuff out of your ass.


In Japan the covid bump is there in a PC and specially (as I said also caused by the PS5 release and due to normal lifecycle points the peak year of the Switch) digital console game revenue bump.

But yes, compared with the worldwide numbers covid bump it's almost unnoticed in Japan.

Japan:

Worldwide:

 

[Moses85]

Last generation I bought multiple consoles.

XBO
XBOS
XBOX
PS4
PS4 Slim
PS4 Pro

This gen I bought a Series X and I won't be buying anything else.

 

[Kacho]

For what?

 

[Moses85]

For what?

This gen I bought a Series X and I won't be buying anything else

 

[Scrawnton]

This gen I bought a Series X and I won't be buying anything else

I mean, both consoles this gen have been equally horrible. Not like PS5 has any killer apps that justify the system purchase if you already have an Xbox. PS5 just happened to be the sales winner.

 

[Kacho]

This gen I bought a Series X and I won't be buying anything else

I'm talking about not buying anything else between PlayStation and Xbox. The point being, I'm buying less hardware this generation than I have in past ones because there's of a reason to buy redundant hardware, let alone upgrade it. Not good for the industry.

 

[Felessan]

But if fewer systems sold than last gen, isn't that at least a concern? Really the profitability could just be the increasing prevalence of digital sales, i.e. Sony taking 30% minimum cut and keeping prices higher because they have a monopoly on the digital PS games.

Their installbase is not less than last gen - and it's installbase, not console sales that matters.
Sony have healthy PS4 installbase that keep buying everything - so slower ps5 sales doesn't affect them much.

It's not game unit sales. It's PS+ and their cut of third party GAAS.

Games unit sales too. In 2019 Sony sold 269m units of software. In 2024 Sony sold 303m units of software - they are growing in their metrics.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

This is one of those arguments that are ultimately stupid based on a very biased, myopic view of the situation.

Here's a simple question: what is more important to any platform holder? Number of consoles sold? Or revenue generated?

Only a moron would say that a platform that is making/generating more revenue than it ever has in its history is failing or in trouble. And that is just scratching the surface... another snippet of info, there is a reason why they do not care about increasing console prices, the moment prices went up for the first time, which is a first in the history of consoles... the writing was already on the wall on what and exactly where their business focus has shifted to.

Its only the agenda-laden clickbait media and bigot fanboys that begin and end their argument/analysis on hardware sales.