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[Red Dolphin]

In the N64 days, when I first experienced Turok 1, I thought it had a really unusual control scheme and had quite a bit of trouble playing it. I saw the potential in the controls though, as it was very close to mimicking a PC's mouse and keyboard controls for console FPS.

Now when I got Goldeneye I thought the default controls were very limiting because you had to aim and change the height of your view with the digital C-Up and C-Down buttons which was just stupid. So I tried 1.2 Solitare "Turok" controls, eventually got the hang of it, and never looked back.

I spent many many years playing GoldenEye and eventually Perfect Dark with 1.2 solitare controls and my brain has just become so accustomed to using the left analogue stick as "the mouse" with the C-Buttons as "the keyboard".

This generation I've barely played any FPS. I think the first FPS that I played was Nightfire. I can't remember what the default controls were but I could not use them. I eventually settled on a control scheme that mirrored the 1.2 Solitare controls, where the left analogue is the "mouse" and the right analogue is the "keyboard". It didn't take much to adapt because the C-Buttons were simply replaced with another joystick.

However, I only just got an Xbox just a few months ago and have been trying to get through Halo 1 before I start my still sealed Limited Editon copy of Halo 2! And boy am I struggling with the controls. I can change the controls so the joysticks functions are swapped around so that it mirrors 1.2 Solitare but then I can access any of the face buttons for things like changing weapons and hitting enemies with the base of your gun, without coming to a complete stop. So I figured I just have to get used to the standard controls. And I just can't do it. It's really frustrating because I feel so damn uncoordinated and can't enjoy the game. I also just finished Half Life 2 which doesn't help.

I always hear this hate about Metroid Prime's controls but I never had a problem with them and they seemed to work great for that game. Whereas Halo (and any other console FPS) the controls are constantly in the back of my mind and I continue to struggle with them. I've spent so many years playing FPS with 1.2 Solitare that its so engrained into my brain that I can't adapt to anything else. It's like asking me to start writing with my left hand instead of my right hand.

Anyone else still have problems with dual analogue controls?

 

[Sander]

Like you, I used to use the left stick for looking/aiming and the right stick for moving. I thought this was best because my left thumb is the most dexterious and thus better suited for aiming. As you mentioned however, accessing the thumb buttons in Halo is too cumbersome with this setup. So after a while of playing Halo 2 I changed the controls to the default control scheme (except right thumb click = melee attack, since I use it all the time). Yes, it is really akward at first, and you think it is never going to work, but trust me, the human brain adapts really fast. I'm completely used to it now, although I still feel aiming with my right thumb could be better. Just stick with it, you'll get the hang of it.

I agree with your comment about Prime's controls. Before starting Echoes I played loads of Halo 2, so I thought control was going to be akward since I would be used to dual analogue. Not so, I was playing like a pro within 5 minutes, after adapting to the fact that the C-stick is not used for aiming/moving.

 

[mrfindlay]

I've got a similar problem with dual analogue. I have to rent any console FPS before I buy it just to make sure I can customise the controls to my liking.

I have to make the up and down functions on the left stick move the character forwards and backwards, while the right sticks left and right functions make the character strafe. The left and right functions on the left stick then make the character rotate and the up and down functions on the right stick make the character look up and down. That's is the only way I can play these games.

Luckily Halo and Timesplitters allowed me to use this set-up and I can play them just as well as my friends who use the default controls. When using the default controls for most console FPS it just feels that my brain doesn't want to work that way and ends up looking like I've never played a videogame before.

 

[luxsol]

Yep, I have a really hard time with dual analog controls. I refuse to accept them.

Anyway, I say... don't get used to dual analog and buy the keyboard/mouse adapter that a lot of people bitched about a month ago.
Smartjoy Frag: best $30 investment on a peripheral http://www.liksang.com/info.php?products_id=5438

Get Xbox Live and give everyone hell in FPS for me until I buy my Xbox. =P

 

[buck naked]

Same problem here.

Unfortunately many 3D games offer no support for my traditional N64-trained skills (example: Splinter Cell), so I'm left totally confused. I don't know wether I'm better at inverted or non-inverted vertical axises, I don't know if I prefer left-thumbstick aiming or right-thumbstick aiming.

I find it really hard to enjoy console first person shooters. Being back behind my keyboard and mouse for Half-Life 2 was a joyful experience.

 

[Any1]

It's funny, i have the complete opposite problem. I can't use a keyboard and mouse for FPS. If i play one on my PC, i have to use a analog sticks.

Actually, i have no problem using the mouse for aiming, it's the damn keyboard for movement that i can't get use to. Something about digigtal movement, i suck at.

 

[luxsol]

Actually, i have no problem using the mouse for aiming, it's the damn keyboard for movement that i can't get use to. Something about digigtal movement, i suck at.

Or maybe it might be because you're used to using your thumb to move? Stop trying to use all your digits and use only your thumb! =P


Just curious... Are you good at typing? How many words per minute can you type?

 

[TekunoRobby]

Ehhh I have the ability to adapt to any controller configuration. I was playing Steel Battalion like a champ within a short while and I even adapted quite well GunGriffon's control scheme in a relatively short amount of time (adapted well to the controls not the beautiful finesse it takes to beat a level without touching the ground).

STICK WITH IT. That's all I can say really. Until we see a revolutionary new control method in the next gen of consoles that is what you're going to get for all console FPS so you really have no other option. While the controls made famous by Goldeneye will serve you well unless you want to play competetively you need to adapt to dual analog.

 

[Red Dolphin]

I've got the exact same problem. I have to rent any console FPS before I buy it just to make sure I can customise the controls to my liking.

I have to make the up and down functions on the left stick move the character forwards and backwards, while the right sticks left and right functions make the character strafe. The left and right functions on the left stick then make the character rotate and the up and down functions on the right stick make the character look up and down. That's is the only way I can play these games.

Luckily Halo and Timesplitters allowed me to use this set-up and I can play them just as well as my friends who use the default controls. When using the default controls for most console FPS it just feels that my brain doesn't want to work that way and ends up looking like I've never played a videogame before.

Hmm aren't those controls "1.1" Goldeneye/Perfect Dark controls essentially? I could never get the hang of having strafe and looking up and down on one joystick back in the day... but I might try it again since I'm having trouble adapting to stanard dual analogue.

Glad to see I'm not the only one who can't get used to Dual Analogue

 

[Doom_Bringer]

Dual Analogue worked great with Ape Escape on PSX, took sometime getting used to it though. Great game too

 

[TekunoRobby]

Dual Analogue worked great with Ape Escape on PSX, took sometime getting used to it though. Great game too

You're right on the money sir, that was one of the main reasons why I loved that game so much.

 

[luxsol]

Ehhh I have the ability to adapt to any controller configuration. I was playing Steel Battalion like a champ within a short while and I even adapted quite well GunGriffon's control scheme in a relatively short amount of time (adapted well to the controls not the beautiful finesse it takes to beat a level without touching the ground).

Everyone has the ability to adapt to any control config, but most of us refuse to. As you can tell by these posts, many of us go back to what we're used to and not learn how to use the standard config.

While the controls made famous by Goldeneye will serve you well unless you want to play competetively you need to adapt to dual analog.

If you want to play competitively buy a Smartjoy Frag! =P

 

[TekunoRobby]

If you want to play competitively buy a Smartjoy Frag! =P

Doh! I'm such a fool, I completely ignored that. And you just know through the success of that product they will DEFINITELY be offering a SmartJoy derivative for the next generation of consoles. It's highly reccomended secondary method of playing a FPS. Though some may call it cheating (I don't) and others frown on it, if you can't handle dual analog then definitely op for this solution.

BTW sorry if I came off like bragging, I really didn't mean to sound that way since I'm aware that there are a massive amount of people like me. I just wanted to throw that out to show that some people really don't have any trouble adapting to any control configuration. I've personally met a few people who feel certain controls for some games are incredibly difficult to adapt to, strange I know. In the end it just comes to mind over thumb.

 

[luxsol]

Geez, I just found out that they make a Smartjoy Frag for the PS2 too. Which is pretty sad, because it shouldn't be needed considering the PS2 has USB ports in front. I wish more developers supported those ports.

 

[cybamerc]

Red Dolphin:

> However, I only just got an Xbox just a few months ago and have been trying to get
> through Halo 1 before I start my still sealed Limited Editon copy of Halo 2! And boy am I
> struggling with the controls.

How do you feel about the Xbox controller in general? IMO, everything feels awkard on that controller.

 

[Red Dolphin]

How do you feel about the Xbox controller in general? IMO, everything feels awkard on that controller.

Well I quite like the general button layout and the triggers. And it's certainly FAR better then the original BRICK controller that the Xbox originally released with. But I much prefer the GCN's main analogue stick to the Xbox's. The C-stick is a bit small but I can only see that as in issue for FPS on the Cube using the Default dual analogue control scheme. When I played Nightfire with "1.2 Solitare" controls I had no issues with the C-Stick. The GCN controller is also far more comfortable to hold.

In summary:

GCN
+ most comfortable to hold
+ best main analogue stick
+ button layout is actually really good for most games
- c-stick should have been same size as main analogue stick
- L and R buttons are quite nice and I like the digital click but they make your fingers hurt after extended play sessions
- useless Z button (good as a "select" button though)

Xbox controller
+ good button layout (not including the awful black and white buttons)
+ nice triggers
- no where near as comfortable to hold as GCN controller
- analogue sticks aren't as good as GCN's. Far better then PS2s however
- black and white buttons!

 

[Dez]

I have the same problems as well.. what bothers me about Halo's controls is that they could EASILY fix the southpaw controls by mapping the 4 action buttons to the D-pad. The Dpad does absolutely nothing in the game, i have no idea why they didn't do this.

I've switched to the default controls, but i was so much better with southpaw in Halo 1 - the dual wielding in halo 2, however, makes the southpaw control inadequate.

I also find that I like inverted controls with my left thumb, but non-inverted for the right. weird.

 

[The Faceless Master]

i play southpaw i halo, halo 2 and many other games... been doing it since turok days...

i've been trying to switch on occasion since halo's launch, because quite a few games have no southpaw option, and it works for the most part, but when it gets down to a tense situation, my brain often just instinctively switches to 'southpaw' mode and it doesn't work out too well...

 

[pixelated]

I have the same problem. My years of playing goldeneye and turok have left me crippled to play a game like halo. I could adapt if I owned the game I believe, but I'm not a fan.

 

[jett]

Yep, got the same problem. I have a *really* hard time aiming with my right thumb. I still enjoy console FPS games, but they are harder than they should be(to me). I guess that's why I got no problem at all with Metroid Prime.

 

[Ranger X]

Wow. Maybe i'm a oldie or something but my brain MADE out of controlling your character with my left hand and doing the rest with my right hand.
As a matter of fact, i really like dual analogue controls where you aim/turn on the right and strafe/move with the left. Very intuitive to me.
I wonder if some of you just got "deformed" by that god damned solitaire Goldeneye control...

 

[Dilbert]

I can't handle dual analog controls, period.

 

[Gek54]

How old are you people that cant adapt?

 

[Shogmaster]

The only difficulty I have with dual analog scheme is that my right thumb must be doing the looking, and no fucking inverted crap, or else I get all confused. Other than that, no problems what so ever with DA nor mouse and keyboard.

 

[Baron Aloha]

Dual analog controls = shit, in my opinion. They are the primary reason why I can't stand console FPS games.

 

[tahrikmili]

My WASD PC skills transferred rather smoothly to analogue sticks, I find them quite intuitive..

 

[Gorey]

I like 'em both. Halo was difficult at first, but nowhere near as difficult as learning how to 'mouse' was in the first place. When we used to play FPS games on PC's using ONLY the keyboard....making that switch was worse than using a gamepad.

Halo's control scheme is almost perfect. Only failing is having to hit the face buttons = finger off the aiming stick.

 

[Red Dolphin]

How old are you people that cant adapt?

22

 

[Shogmaster]

Dual analog controls = shit, in my opinion. They are the primary reason why I can't stand console FPS games.

Those with your opinion never can explain why they feel DA is "shit", other than they suck at it.

DA scheme provides for the most complete controls over your character, 1st person or 3rd. It's the best control scheme for traditional console controllers EVAH!

 

[dark10x]

I've become good enough with the setup that I prefer it to the mouse and keyboard for "cinematic" FPS games (due to constant, smoother panning + analog motion). The mouse/keyboard combo is the king for aiming perfection, but I feel very comfortable with a DA setup. The XBOX pad provides the best experience, however. The PS2 and GC pads do not handle it nearly as well.

 

[arhra]

I have the same problems as well.. what bothers me about Halo's controls is that they could EASILY fix the southpaw controls by mapping the 4 action buttons to the D-pad. The Dpad does absolutely nothing in the game, i have no idea why they didn't do this.

It does in Halo 2, at least in multiplayer - up is team chat (same as the white button), left/right are team signals (they make your hud icon flash different colours, useful for signalling to team members without giving your position away if you're sneaking into the enemy base), and down... er... down makes you lower your weapon. I think they put that in for RvB.

[ontopic]
Personally, the only way i could play goldeneye was dpad to move/strafe, and stick to aim. My brain is just hardwired for left-hand = movement, right hand = aiming, from playing quake etc. Although i cope reasonably well with Metroid Prime's controls, since you're only doing one thing at a time. Every time i switch back to Prime 2 lately though, after playing Halo 2 a ton, i have a minute or two where i keep trying to use the right stick to look around before i readjust...

 

[luxsol]

How old are you people that cant adapt?

23. It's not that I can't adapt, it's that I won't.
There really aren't FPS games on console that I can't play on my PC or Mac, so learning to use dual analog now is just dumb. Especially now that there are adapters to use PC controls with consoles.

Aside from FPS, what games actually require you to use dual analog? Last game I played that did that was Ape Escape. Probably the only game where I enjoyed using two sticks (not analog) was Smash TV-like game. Robotron?... and I was great at it too! I was pretty damn good at Virtual On too.
Using a controller that requires both sticks to control the character just seems weird, because I'm using my thumbs. It's a very inaccurate way to control, especially with loose (PS2's) sticks. You get more accuracy when using your entire hand to position the character/sights.
It seems that the hate for DA stems from us being PC FPS players, and the frustration that comes from using inferior controls (PC controls will always be better than console controllers).

 

[Shogmaster]

23. It's not that I can't adapt, it's that I won't.
There really aren't FPS games on console that I can't play on my PC or Mac, so learning to use dual analog now is just dumb. Especially now that there are adapters to use PC controls with consoles.

I'd love to see a pic of someone sitting on the couch with a keyboard and mouse attached to that adapter. Real comfy looking I'm sure. And when you're with a bunch of friends playing a mutiplayer, it should go over real well. :lol

Aside from FPS, what games actually require you to use dual analog? Last game I played that did that was Ape Escape. Probably the only game where I enjoyed using two sticks (not analog) was Smash TV-like game. Robotron?... and I was great at it too! I was pretty damn good at Virtual On too.

Any 3D shooting game that requires total freedom should use this scheme, be they 1st person or 3rd person IMO. That's why so many prefer Splinter Cell controls over MGS at this point. If it requires tons of none shooting action, a la Ninja Gaiden, then no, but primarily shooting action? (punch punch kick of MGS don't count) then give me dual analog or just get the fuck out of my way.

Using a controller that requires both sticks to control the character just seems weird, because I'm using my thumbs. It's a very inaccurate way to control, especially with loose (PS2's) sticks. You get more accuracy when using your entire hand to position the character/sights.
It seems that the hate for DA stems from us being PC FPS players, and the frustration that comes from using inferior controls (PC controls will always be better than console controllers).

Funny, this keyboard and mouse player and many others had no problem adjusting. Maybe it's just your shortcomings, no?

 

[Azih]

Yeah I think for most people strugging with the default console controls playing WASD setup PC FPSs for a while would help tremendously.

left hand moves around, right hand looks around.

 

[Shompola]

yah I am a WASD player and adapting to the halo control scheme was super easy. It was very natural.

 

[Deezel]

I had the very same problem.. and it seems to be common amongst my friends also.

It probably is the people who played Goldeneye and Perfect Dark to death..who are having this problem (4 player team deathmatch against perfect sims..or Facility on GE anyone.?? oh they were such cool games at the time..)

When i bought my PS2 and Timesplitters and tried using the 'Default' controls, i just couldn't get on with 'em at all. Trying to run forward usually results in running whilst looking at the sky..

Didn't Timesplitters have the option to change to Goldeneye type controls?? (probably cause they knew that Goldeneye/PD players would hate them so much) so it was straight back to Goldeneye controls for me.

I did manage to change to today's Default controls.. after i was forced to, by one game or another.. cant remember... but glad i spent the hours and hours re-learning now. Some of my friends still refuse to play some FPS's if they cant change the controls to Goldeneye type.

 

[etiolate]

Actually, i have no problem using the mouse for aiming, it's the damn keyboard for movement that i can't get use to. Something about digigtal movement, i suck at.

WASD movement does suck. For one, its not set up in a cross pattern so it makes little logical sense to your brain, second the keys are often set at an angle on most keyboards and third its normally so far away from your other hand it kind of distances and disconnects me from the game.

 

[The Shadow]

I never really got used to the Goldeneye/Turok controls which is probably why I found the current console FPS scheme so much better. Like any change in a control setup, it took a little bit of practice to get it down but now it feels pretty natural and easy to use which is why games like Metroid Prime feel so awkward and wrong.

You just have to practice. I really do think it's a better control scheme than "Solitaire" which is what I used to use back in the Goldeneye days. It's worth the trouble IMO.

 

[tahrikmili]

WASD movement does suck. For one, its not set up in a cross pattern so it makes little logical sense to your brain, second the keys are often set at an angle on most keyboards and third its normally so far away from your other hand it kind of distances and disconnects me from the game.

Makes no sense whatsoever to me.

 

[luxsol]

I'd love to see a pic of someone sitting on the couch with a keyboard and mouse attached to that adapter. Real comfy looking I'm sure. And when you're with a bunch of friends playing a mutiplayer, it should go over real well. :lol

I have a nice tray/table thing that i place in front of me when playing using a wheel or arcade stick.
And about friends... FUCK THEM. They've whined when I played against them with my arcade stick, wheel or even the dual shock (when it first came out). I tell them to bring their own or save up money to buy their own. If they speak out against a Smartjoy Frag adapter, I'll tell them the same thing.

Any 3D shooting game that requires total freedom should use this scheme, be they 1st person or 3rd person IMO. That's why so many prefer Splinter Cell controls over MGS at this point. If it requires tons of none shooting action, a la Ninja Gaiden, then no, but primarily shooting action? (punch punch kick of MGS don't count) then give me dual analog or just get the fuck out of my way.

I like lock on controls more if it's third person. Devil May Cry did it right. Until we get back to having a shitload of enemies on screen at one time, I don't think we need to move back to Smash TV style controls. Besides, it's not an accurate enough for the more realistic shooters considering most don't give you enough ammo or they limit it.

Funny, this keyboard and mouse player and many others had no problem adjusting. Maybe it's just your shortcomings, no?

I REFUSE to adapt. I applaud you for your effort in learning to adapt, but it's not for me. I'm too set in my ways and demand accurate controls! I want NDS-type controls for the Revolution!

 

[Warm Machine]

Super Mario Sunshine, GTA, Zelda, etc all use dual analogue. In fact the majority of games now-a-days use it. What is the problem?

 

[luxsol]

Super Mario Sunshine, GTA, Zelda, etc all use dual analogue. In fact the majority of games now-a-days use it. What is the problem?

Since when did GTA and Zelda use dual? using the second stick for camera isn't the same thing as using them to control the character on screen.

 

[Warm Machine]

When I play 3rd person games I use the camera stick to guide my character.

Instead of turning him with the left stick and then compensating the camera with the right stick. I just hold forward on the left stick to go forward and move the camera left and right with the right stick to turn.

The equivalent is true in FPS games. The only diff is really with the strafing in FPS games.

 

[aku:jiki]

Since when did GTA and Zelda use dual? using the second stick for camera isn't the same thing as using them to control the character on screen.

Yes it is. Pulling up on the left analog and using the camera to turn left and right is how I play all games that let me.

So, yeah, I don't have this problem, and have in fact turned into a dual analog addict. I am literally constantly adjusting the camera to best suit the situation I'm in. I'm guessing this is why I never have the same camera complaints as everyone else.

 

[luxsol]

I have absolutely no problem with Zelda or GTA (don't have SMS) type controls, but I do with FPS and SOCOM types. grrr... I don't even have my consoles hooked up right now to check why I don't with Zelda/GTA but I do with SOCOM/FPS.

 

[luxsol]

When I play 3rd person games I use the camera stick to guide my character.

Instead of turning him with the left stick and then compensating the camera with the right stick. I just hold forward on the left stick to go forward and move the camera left and right with the right stick to turn.

The equivalent is true in FPS games. The only diff is really with the strafing in FPS games.

OK! Playing the games (finals are pretty much over so i had time to connect my consoles again)... it's not the same thing. With most 3rd person games the camera is controlled by the computer most of the time. They also have auto-targetting and the ability to make the camera line up with where your character is facing at the push of a button.

In FPS and SOCOM-style games the camera movements are completely left up to dual stick controls, with the exception of (only one i can think of right now) Metroid Prime (it's an FPA though). These games also have a very weak aimbot, but aiming is still really in your control only. Everything depends on using both sticks in order to make it through these games (default settings).

In the 3rd person games, you don't need to use both sticks as the camera AI and auto/manual-targeting does it for you most of the time. The option is there, but in the time I've played the games I rarely ever used it... as opposed to using it all the time in FPS games. It's a necessity for these shooters.

 

[Shogmaster]

I have absolutely no problem with Zelda or GTA (don't have SMS) type controls, but I do with FPS and SOCOM types. grrr... I don't even have my consoles hooked up right now to check why I don't with Zelda/GTA but I do with SOCOM/FPS.

It just sounds like your brain gets too confused when inputing more than one set commands at a time.

 

[luxsol]

It just sounds like your brain gets too confused when inputing more than one set commands at a time.

Funny!!!!!!!

Actually, I'm quite good at being able to use my hands to do two things at one time. I've been playing the piano since i was 4 or 5 years old, had taken lessons from conductors in 1st-9th grade. Was in the school band, where I started to play the drums (along with other instruments). I'm far past the "I don't have to look at what I'm doing" and "I don't have to think, because it all goes into auto-pilot" points. I'm at "Damn, I'm bored of this" =P

 

[Shogmaster]

Funny!!!!!!!

Actually, I'm quite good at being able to use my hands to do two things at one time. I've been playing the piano since i was 4 or 5 years old, had taken lessons from conductors in 1st-9th grade. Was in the school band, where I started to play the drums (along with other instruments). I'm far past the "I don't have to look at what I'm doing" and "I don't have to think, because it all goes into auto-pilot" points. I'm at "Damn, I'm bored of this" =P

Then I'm at a total loss to why you don't want to use DA even in situations that are ripe for it. Do you have probelms with playing Splinter Cell on consoles, control wise?

 

[Doc Holliday]

What i dont like about DA is that it completely removes the twitch aspect that makes FPS on a pc so good. Pulling a off a 180 turn in mid air and nailing some ahole with a rail gun is pretty tough to do with DA.