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[BurnCoalMeltPole]

Upscaling of an upscaling of an upscaling...

No, just... no. I cannot imagine how many details would've been lost by going through several passes of different upscaling techniques. We already saw 1440p with CBR in action multiple times, it looks really nice, so why experiment? Just bump it to 1620/1800p and we're set to go, that's 55/70% of 4K respectively, so a lot of performance saved, and it would look even better than 1440p we have today.

The point is that developers have options, and in the end the fidelity will likely be very high and nearly indistinguishable from a native source, especially if scaling works as well as something like Nvidia’s DLSS 2.0. And if 1800p goes to the TV, you probably cannot tell the difference even if you put your face close to the screen.

Who knows, if upscaling from 1080p ends up looking great in 4K, then just try to imagine what might be done with all of that extra power, especially if ray tracing is implemented far better in one or both of the consoles.

Nvidia DLSS in 2020: Stunning Results

We've been waiting to reexamine Nvidia's Deep Learning Super Sampling (DLSS) for a long time and after a thorough new investigation we're glad to report that DLSS...

www.techspot.com

 

[MrFunSocks]

Upgrading PS4 developed games to PS5 during the crossover period isnt holding back PS5, let alone native PS5 games.
Developing XSX games together with current gen however is almost certainly holding them back with their first party titles, as seen with Halo.

You’re mistaken in thinking that Halo is a next gen game though. It’s not. Your entire argument falls down right there.

The only other Xbox first party games that will be cross gen we’re already in development as XB1 games, so upgrading them to Series X isn’t holding anything back, let alone native Series X games.

Fable is a Series X exclusive. How will a console that it’s not releasing on hold it back? Same with Forza and Everwild.

 

[MrFunSocks]

Just stop this is embarrassing lmao

Which would you prefer:

1. I get $5, you get $10.

2. I get $5 million, you get $8 million.

I’m assuming you’ll take the $5, right?It’s a much bigger percentage extra on top of mine. That’s all that matters isn’t it, the percentage?

 

[TheGreatWhiteShark]

Which would you prefer:

1. I get $5, you get $10.

2. I get $5 million, you get $8 million.

I’m assuming you’ll take the $5, right?It’s a much bigger percentage extra on top of mine. That’s all that matters isn’t it, the percentage?

about scaling,
50% teraflops difference is also what xbox one x has to series x, 6tf to 12tf
one could say that these two machines are from different console generations

crazy shit, right?

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Which would you prefer:

1. I get $5, you get $10.

2. I get $5 million, you get $8 million.

I’m assuming you’ll take the $5, right?It’s a much bigger percentage extra on top of mine. That’s all that matters isn’t it, the percentage?

No one is claiming raw numbers don't matter

1280 x 720 vs 1920 x 1080

or

3840 x 1800 vs 3840 x 2160

Which do you think has the bigger impact?

 

[MrFunSocks]

No one is claiming raw numbers don't matter

You might want to read the thread again mate.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

You might want to read the thread again mate.

No I think you need to take your own advice there mate.

 

[ZywyPL]

The point is that developers have options, and in the end the fidelity will likely be very high and nearly indistinguishable from a native source, especially if scaling works as well as something like Nvidia’s DLSS 2.0. And if 1800p goes to the TV, you probably cannot tell the difference even if you put your face close to the screen.

It's MUCH safer to scale the image internally to the targeted resolution (4K), otherwise the users will be left on the mercy of their TVs, where one model has a build-in AI upscaling, the other some standard but still good mythology, and the other has none and just stretches the image, and that just creates different experience for different people, and it's safe to say nobody want's that. Upscaling like CBR is pretty much free as far as performance go, so like I said, there's no need to mess around with it, if it ain't broken, don't fix it.

 

[On Demand]

this <<matt>> was also saying that series s got cancelled, so excuse me for not taking his monoword replies as something to keep in mind.
"no" , "not at all" , and apparently thats enough for some really gullible guys

There’s definitely some gullible people around. It ain’t the people you assume it is.

One side always believes a worshipped executive’s lies about games and first party. The “wait for next E3” meme exists for a reason. Now their brand new console is not even launching with one of their so called big games.

Wait for next E3 I guess.

 

[reinking]

this <<matt>> was also saying that series s got cancelled, so excuse me for not taking his monoword replies as something to keep in mind.
"no" , "not at all" , and apparently thats enough for some really gullible guys

I believe it did get cancelled or at least shelved for later until Sony announced an All Digital console. All news from Series S went away for a while until after that reveal and then suddenly popped back up. We have yet to see the console.

 

[BurnCoalMeltPole]

It's MUCH safer to scale the image internally to the targeted resolution (4K), otherwise the users will be left on the mercy of their TVs, where one model has a build-in AI upscaling, the other some standard but still good mythology, and the other has none and just stretches the image, and that just creates different experience for different people, and it's safe to say nobody want's that. Upscaling like CBR is pretty much free as far as performance go, so like I said, there's no need to mess around with it, if it ain't broken, don't fix it.

Oh, you are probably right that it is better to not be left at the mercy of inconsistency.

 

[TheGreatWhiteShark]

PS5 probably gets the faulty XSX chips where the broken CUs are deactivated

 

[Three]

After watching the gameplay demo of The Gunk, there's no doubt this game would be constrained by the PS5 (should be fine on Xbox One though). Makes Ratchet and Clank look like a mobile game.


Scorn Dev:
“It’s very simple,” Peklar told us when we asked them about the game’s console exclusivity. “Good performance of the game is important to us. Xbox Series X is a very capable hardware that enables parity with the PC version of the game. We can’t discuss any info regarding PlayStation.”

Wow. I'm sold.

I still don’t see how that results in this massive gap the dusk is pushing.. I mean we’re still supposedly getting a 4tf series s. That’ll just be series x games at 1440p. So the ps5 instead displays series x games at the same settings but at 1920p or something, I mean who cares?

In some cases it might be 60fps vs 120fps or 30fps vs 60fps for old titles. This will probably not be the case for most new big budget titles. Especially the good looking ones using the latest engines.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Which would you prefer:

1. I get $5, you get $10.

2. I get $5 million, you get $8 million.

I’m assuming you’ll take the $5, right?It’s a much bigger percentage extra on top of mine. That’s all that matters isn’t it, the percentage?

This generation you could fit two Xbox 360s and two Gamecubes between X1 and PS4. You understand what this means? You could fit two generations, two times over. What did it mean in games?

If this doesn't switch a light on for you, nothing will.

 

[Calverz]

Are people actually in here saying that the PS5 will compare in power to the XSX?

 

[TheGreatWhiteShark]

I believe it did get cancelled or at least shelved for later until Sony announced an All Digital console. All news from Series S went away for a while until after that reveal and then suddenly popped back up. We have yet to see the console.

There’s definitely some gullible people around. It ain’t the people you assume it is.

One side always believes a worshipped executive’s lies about games and first party. The “wait for next E3” meme exists for a reason. Now their brand new console is not even launching with one of their so called big games.

Wait for next E3 I guess.

all those that have been developing on series x know that at first there was a profile for s, then it got its own dev kit.
now, for some guys that still think that phonies like <<matt>> are developers that are <<a rare case that has access to both companies dev kits>>
it is not even worth my time to try and make them understand. whoever understands, understands


the rest just trust <<matt>> , as he recently said -when asked to debunk dust golem- "FAKE 4K IS THE BEST FOR YOU"

 

[Jason28]

this is actually funny, there are multiple threads created to just bash ms and Xbox, Craig memes are all over this forum, Sony representation on this forum is much bigger that Xbox representation in here, and it is easily noticeable.

Dude, Microsoft gets bashed postfactum and for the right reason.
Take a look at this:
1. They showed a shitty looking Halo Infinite: get bashed for this and for bad-looking NPC, like Craig.
2. They showed a bunch of CGI - no gameplay running on Series X, only PC. They got fairly bashed for this.

Now, let's take a look with Sony. They got bashed for:
1. PS5 gonna be more expensive that Series X.The console struggles at 4k.
BULLSHIT. We do not know if this is true.
2. PS5 haas problems with heating .
Bullshit rumour, might be fake.

3. PS5 is RDNA 1, no ray-tracing.
Bullshit, already proved.

As you see, Microsoft got bashed for things they already did. Sony got bashed for FUD, rumours that seem like bs.

 

[DForce]

all those that have been developing on series x know that at first there was a profile for s, then it got its own dev kit.
now, for some guys that still think that phonies like <<matt>> are developers that are <<a rare case that has access to both companies dev kits>>
it is not even worth my time to try and make them understand. whoever understands, undertands


the rest just trust <<matt>> , as he recently said -when asked to debunk dust golem- "FAKE 4K IS THE BEST FOR YOU"

Because it saves GPU resources. They can use the extra GPU resources on in game graphics instead of using it to render a native 4K images.




The results are very similar.

Native 4K = 60-70FPS on average
DLSS 2.0 = 90-100FPS on average with a "fake 4K" image that is very close to a Native image.

 

[DForce]

Are people actually in here saying that the PS5 will compare in power to the XSX?

No, the gap is power is small.

You have the Xbox community ignoring every sort of evidence that proves this.

 

[TheGreatWhiteShark]

Because it saves GPU resources. They can use the extra GPU resources on in game graphics instead of using it to render a native 4K images.




The results are very similar.

Native 4K = 60-70FPS on average
DLSS 2.0 = 90-100FPS on average with a "fake 4K" image that is very close to a Native image.

my dude, you are not going to get neither dlss 2.0 nor dlss 3.0
you are going to get checkerboarding

 

[DForce]

my dude, you are not going to get neither dlss 2.0 nor dlss 3.0
you are going to get checkerboarding

Do you even know what machine learning is?

 

[Deto]

Which would you prefer:

1. I get $5, you get $10.

2. I get $5 million, you get $8 million.

I’m assuming you’ll take the $5, right?It’s a much bigger percentage extra on top of mine. That’s all that matters isn’t it, the percentage?

who has doubts, just a fake troll who had an old account already banned.

Curious, when it was PS4 vs xone,% worked perfectly and nobody questioned it.
But what does this REALITY matter?

“Nobody” questioned it then because it was Sony that was ahead and that’s what this forum wants.

MrFunSocks
Member
Joined Jul 9, 2020


He totally ignores it when someone denies the shit he writes ... changes the subject, tries to pretend to be impartial.

just a fanboy account that has already been banned and has now created another fake account to go back to talking crap on the internet.

 

[onQ123]

Are people actually in here saying that the PS5 will compare in power to the XSX?

It will

 

[ScaryBrandon]

Sounding really dumb here but because the PS5 has less overhead than say my 2080 Super equipped PC, shouldn't devs be able to get more out of it?

I'm honestly not that fussed in the end, PS5 will be a day one for me. That first party line up Sony has equipped is just too good and I am completely on board with their generational philosophy.

Such overheads were an issue a long time ago during the DX9 era. DX12 and Vulkan allow code to the metal similarly to consoles.

 

[BurnCoalMeltPole]

Are people actually in here saying that the PS5 will compare in power to the XSX?

Compute capability is only one metric, and hardly the entire story when it comes to comparing the performance of these consoles. It is likely that Sony’s first party studios will be able to get the PS5 to out perform the XSX just because the system is designed to be more efficient and has some key parts that totally outclass the competition, the I/O being one of them. The I/O architecture is of particular importance because both consoles will be relying upon storage to supplement memory, which only doubled this time, whereas in past generations memory went up 16x. The PS5’s high sustained throughput combined with low latency should enable memory to be used far more efficiently, allowing for more features and higher fidelity assets.

It is entirely conceivable that if the PS5 permits substantially higher utilization, its real world performance will be higher than the XSX. It is not just about raw power, but rather how effectively it can be exploited.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Love how bad Xbox showings and news leads to apologetic media reactions and bad PS5 rumors. They no longer bother saying "Devs are telling me", it's just full on "I think". Oh and rumored big time exclusives on PS5 obviously lead to outrage and bargaining(they need exclusives because PS5 is weak).

The 360 really was a homerun with that generation huh?

"Devs are telling me" and "I think..." can both be true.

Grubb is a quality insider who can also have opinions not based on insider info. This shouldn't be news to anyone.

 

[reinking]

all those that have been developing on series x know that at first there was a profile for s, then it got its own dev kit.
now, for some guys that still think that phonies like <<matt>> are developers that are <<a rare case that has access to both companies dev kits>>
it is not even worth my time to try and make them understand. whoever understands, understands


the rest just trust <<matt>> , as he recently said -when asked to debunk dust golem- "FAKE 4K IS THE BEST FOR YOU"

I don't trust any "insiders" right now but you clearly have an agenda if that is what you are taking away from what he meant. He was saying the sacrifice for true 4K is great and it is for the best they give that up for other benefits.

 

[Bryank75]

But why have we seen nothing running on an Xbox Series X?

What are they hiding? Very shady....

How do we know any games are full 4K on Xbox?

 

[Calverz]

Compute capability is only one metric, and hardly the entire story when it comes to comparing the performance of these consoles. It is likely that Sony’s first party studios will be able to get the PS5 to out perform the XSX just because the system is designed to be more efficient and has some key parts that totally outclass the competition, the I/O being one of them. The I/O architecture is of particular importance because both consoles will be relying upon storage to supplement memory, which only doubled this time, whereas in past generations memory went up 16x. The PS5’s high sustained throughput combined with low latency should enable memory to be used far more efficiently, allowing for more features and higher fidelity assets.

It is entirely conceivable that if the PS5 permits substantially higher utilization, its real world performance will be higher than the XSX. It is not just about raw power, but rather how effectively it can be exploited.

Im sure xboxers made similar arguments in 2013.....

 

[MrFunSocks]

who has doubts, just a fake troll who had an old account already banned.





MrFunSocks
Member
Joined Jul 9, 2020


He totally ignores it when someone denies the shit he writes ... changes the subject, tries to pretend to be impartial.

just a fanboy account that has already been banned and has now created another fake account to go back to talking crap on the internet.

Looks at tag..... yep, they got you pegged.

Grow up.

 

[Astral Dog]

Cerny is an overrated idiot. Not sure why he gets so much praise.

the ps-4 is loud as fuck, ps-4 pro is weaker than the Xbox one x, and now the ps-5 is apparently significantly weaker than the Xbox IX (series x) because he decided he wanted to put all his marbles into the SSD. And for what?

Good luck showcasing the advantage of the SSD over the advantage of resolution, because showing SSD advantages is much harder to the average gamer. And if the ps-5 is more expensive, then it’s over and they fucked up everything they built up this past gen & more.

they’re banking timed or exclusive moneyhatt content to try and sway consumers with content while Microsoft will try and sway them with power.

Sony believes content > power will work

While not as fancy as PS5, the XSX also has a pretty good SSD i honestly doubt they will be at a disadvantage when it comes to game development

SMH where is this hole because we still haven't seen anything running on Xbox SX that look as good as what was shown running on PS5.

Hype yourself up for disappointment over a rumor

While thats true and Sony showed a stronger showcase presentation,i highly doubt Halo Infinite uses all the power of the XSX or that somehow indicates the new Xbox is weaker than PS5.

we only need to see a few, if not only one XSX game looking/running better and this nonsense will end, but the question is when during the console lifespan maybe even this year

 

[GiJoint]

Such overheads were an issue a long time ago during the DX9 era. DX12 and Vulkan allow code to the metal similarly to consoles.

Thanks dude, I had only done a new build with PC after years so was a lot to catch up on

 

[On Demand]

So it turns out Dusk Golem is a XB fanboy who posted the BS rumor because there’s too much negativity against SX

L O F’n L!

 

[Mhmmm 2077]

Well, yeah, the grass is green... just like Xbox branding colour.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Some additional tweets from him.

Edit: To clean up the duplicated tweets.

 

[onQ123]

While not as fancy as PS5, the XSX also has a pretty good SSD i honestly doubt they will be at a disadvantage when it comes to game development


While thats true and Sony showed a stronger showcase presentation,i highly doubt Halo Infinite uses all the power of the XSX or that somehow indicates the new Xbox is weaker than PS5.

we only need to see a few, if not only one XSX game looking/running better and this nonsense will end, but the question is when during the console lifespan maybe even this year

I didn't say anything about Halo the fact is how can someone say Sony messed up & dug themselves in a hole when it's only Sony showing nice looking games running on it's console so far & the person saying that Sony dug themselves in a hole haven't even seen better from Xbox Series X to even know that.

 

[TheGreatWhiteShark]

I don't trust any "insiders" right now but you clearly have an agenda if that is what you are taking away from what he meant. He was saying the sacrifice for true 4K is great and it is for the best they give that up for other benefits.

I am just bringing to the attention of those that have a functional brain that this dude is a phonie "next gen developer"
he is just damage controlling ps5, and you can clearly see him flip-floping around whenever he has to say something more than a "no"

about the "sacrifice", from what I have seen personally, I always prefer a native image to a reconstructed one in a console.
somehow here, people believe that a ps5 will have the power and tensor cores a 2080ti has and produce similar :]
even dlss 2.0 is not perfect, but its a good way to shoehorn RT in, and will be evolved even more when next nvidia gpus hit.

the funny thing is that you dont seem to undestand my point, that <<matt>> a couple of days ago was saying <no> and today says <yes, but for your own best interest> about the same thing, dust's information.
and since this is pretty straightforward, I have to question who's got the agenda between the two of us.

 

[onQ123]

Some additional tweets from him.

Edit: To clean up the duplicated tweets.

See my post from when he 1st shared this info it was clear what was going on they have bad information about one console so they try to even things up in their own way.

In case you haven't noticed bad news for Xbox Series X always follow these outbursts

 

[Allandor]

No it will not, PC has had variable clocks for years.

There is a difference between PC and consoles. On consoles you normally want to reach a locked target of 30 or 60 fps (... 90 (VR) or 120). If you have that target you try to get as much performance out of it as possible.
And there is the problem with dynamic frequencies which make it almost impossible to know how much you have available at certain points. So you must optimize your game for a lower performance level to always reach it.
Thanks to the dynamic clock rate, you will always have some power you just don't use.
On PC this is not really a problem, at least if you use open framerates (e.g. freesync/gsync or you have not the problem with the articacts). And on PC you can lower some details to reach your personnel desired framerate.

We do need more info on all the cstomisations including Cerny ./ Naughty dog patent and the custom Geometry engine, we dont even have ROP numbers yet. Lets see shall we, not long now.

We just don't know how many ROPs or TMUs the consoles have and if they have the same ROP- and TMU-count. We really don't know. PS4 and xb1 had also a customized (nonstandard) amount of TMUs and ROPs. But it really does not make sense to add more CUs but leave the amount of ROPs, TMUs, etc.
So we just can't generally say higher frequencies are better because of triangle setup or whatever, because of the unknown factors. If they have the same amount of other units, well than we can say for sure that the higher frequency is better for triangles etc. But we just don't know that. It is pure speculation and is often presented as a fact.

 

[BurnCoalMeltPole]

Im sure xboxers made similar arguments in 2013.....

I have no idea if anyone did, but the Xbox One can still perform very well if properly utilized. Among the PS4’s key advantages: exceptional bandwidth, unified memory, more CUs, and an innovative asynchronous compute capability that allows developers to make particularly efficient use of the GPU. A number of first party titles made ample use of these features and delivered amazing software, despite the on paper compute difference being only about 40%. Real world utilization may have put compute capability around 2x the XB1. Titles like God of War, Horizon Zero Dawn, The Last of Us Part 2, Uncharted Lost Legacy, Uncharted 4, Dreams, and Ghost of Tsushima are all a testament of the marriage of exceptional design with technical excellence in both software and hardware.

We already know that the PS5 has a major I/O advantage of anywhere from 2-5x. The custom Geometry Engine is rumored to be similarly powerful, and there may be further customizations that lend significant advantages. Just based on what is already known, the PS5 should be able to outperform the Xbox in ways that are far more noticeable than a meager 18% compute advantage.

Because Microsoft’s first party development is years behind schedule, it will take a long time before the console demonstrates its full capability. I have little doubt that in the right hands, the XSX will shine, but it is not going to do anything that the PS5 cannot.

Go ahead and laugh it all off as being completely ridiculous, but your shallow presumptions are going to fail you sooner rather than later.

 

[EverydayBeast]

SONY will do what they do come beat us

 

[splattered]

He didn't make shit up to make PS5 look bad, he gave true information about development of a capcom game and didn't fully understand the context of the info he was relaying from developers.

Just because he has said he wanted to level the playing field in showing that the recent Xbox negativity isn't fully warranted doesn't make him an Xbox fanboy.

If anything it makes all the Sony fans acting like complete jackasses over this look very very bad.

Anything positive for Xbox automatically = bad for Playstation in your brain and you flip out like little children.

 

[Son_of_Zardoz]

I mean I didn't have a PS4 Pro but wasn't the implementation of image reconstruction techniques used to hit 4K so well done that it was basically indecipherable from native 4K? At this point calling stuff like that "fake 4K" just sounds plain fucking stupid. If game studios can use tricks like that to hit 4K and saving power for effects/physics/etc I'm all for it.

 

[onQ123]

He didn't make shit up to make PS5 look bad, he gave true information about development of a capcom game and didn't fully understand the context of the info he was relaying from developers.

Just because he has said he wanted to level the playing field in showing that the recent Xbox negativity isn't fully warranted doesn't make him an Xbox fanboy.

If anything it makes all the Sony fans acting like complete jackasses over this look very very bad.

Anything positive for Xbox automatically = bad for Playstation in your brain and you flip out like little children.

But where is this positive Xbox news that people would think = bad for PlayStation & flip out like little children?

 

[T-Cake]

I mean I didn't have a PS4 Pro but wasn't the implementation of image reconstruction techniques used to hit 4K so well done that it was basically indecipherable from native 4K? At this point calling stuff like that "fake 4K" just sounds plain fucking stupid. If game studios can use tricks like that to hit 4K and saving power for effects/physics/etc I'm all for it.

Nobody could tell without the aid of taking screen grabs and analyzing them on a computer.

 

[MasterCornholio]

But where is this positive Xbox news that people would think = bad for PlayStation & flip out like little children?

I guess the negative rumors for Playstation could be seen as positive news for Xbox?

For example, if multiplatform games were broken on the PS5 that could help make people choose the XSX quite easily. Hence why it could be seen as positive news for Xbox.

 

[onQ123]

I guess the negative rumors for Playstation could be seen as positive news for Xbox?

For example, if multiplatform games were broken on the PS5 that could help make people choose the XSX quite easily. Hence why it could be seen as positive news for Xbox.

Which would be PlayStation fans reacting to the bad PlayStation news & not them thinking that good Xbox news = bad PlayStation news lol.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Which would be PlayStation fans reacting to the bad PlayStation news & not them thinking that good Xbox news = bad PlayStation news lol.

Well yes alot of people looking forward to the PS5 are worried about broken multiplatform games. They were reacting to his comments on how the game was a 1080P unstable 60FPs mess on the PS5. Then when he mentioned "other developers" it just got worse from there because people don't want another gen of broken multiplats.

But in the end he messed up with giving that information to us which is why alot of FUD was created. Not saying that what he told us is FUD but people based their FUD off what he said.

And in the end we are just comparing negative rumors to negative news.

 

[A.Romero]

Playstation brand was too strong, so it was impossible to dethrone it right away, however xbox classic won with nintendo (gamecube) and sega (dreamcast).

MS build stronger console this time around but software wise they just cant compete with Sony exclusives. Sony will have Horizon 2, Demon Souls Remake, Ratchet and Clank, Spider Man, but there are no real exlusives that would convince people to buy XSX instead of upgrading their PC, and not to mention MS console exclusives will either disappoint (halo infinite), or launch few years from now. I'm afraid XSX can be the last xbox console from MS.

Dreamcast and Xbox never competed directly. By the time Xbox came out, Dreamcast was already retired (no new games and no more production).

And yes, it has been disappointing so far...

 

[onQ123]

Well yes alot of people looking forward to the PS5 are worried about broken multiplatform games. They were reacting to his comments on how the game was a 1080P unstable 60FPs mess on the PS5. Then when he mentioned "other developers" it just got worse from there because people don't want another gen of broken multiplats.

But in the end he messed up with giving that information to us which is why alot of FUD was created. Not saying that what he told us is FUD but people based their FUD off what he said.

And in the end we are just comparing negative rumors to negative news.

He also admitted that he didn't know much about tech so he could have been misquoting people & not fully understanding what he is being told. And being that he wanted to level the playing field he could have been told that the game on Xbox SX is a Xbox One game optimized for Series X that will run in 4K 60FPS while the game on PS5 is built from the ground up for PS5 4K 30FPS with a dynamic 4K mode for getting up to 60fps.