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Easy Allies |EZOT2| Love & Respect

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mishakoz

Member
"You do you" would be his response I guess? Ian's opinions about games are interesting as they are almost as surrealist as Bosman's in their logic. Once I've accepted​ that he's just expressing how he personally feels (really feels, like, it's almost a reflex at this point) about games but doesn't really care about having you adhere to that perception, I found that I could listen to Ian's interventions without any qualms.

Sure, maybe, I think though there was once a question asked about pause mode in bloodborne and he was vehemently against it even though the guy needed to pause to attend to his newborn or something.
 

Deimo5

Member
If you take advantage of Automata's easy mode to it's fullest extent, you can go through battles barely having to do anything and let the auto-chips do all the work. That falls under creators intent.
On the other hand, die-in-one-hit very hard mode sounds like a pain in the ass. They probably don't mind you getting through by any means necessary.
Different games mean different approaches are valid and all that jazz.
 

Philippo

Member
I like Ian, he's great (just like every Ally really), i might not agree to his line of thoughts or tastes, but his takes are always interesting to listen to.
 

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Honestly that episode of Frame Trap felt like Ian wanted it to be a psychiatrists couch it was filled with so much 'Ian-ness' and projection.

A lot of moments where it felt like he wanted to be pushed back against, but because he usually bites back with acidity, people just tend to avoid giving such feedback or challenges. We get the stock "oh everyone hates me on this podcast" starter, and sure there are bigots that hate regardless, but a refusal to even think about why others may be getting sick of the shtick is going to exacerbate it all even further. It's become a fairly dreary routine.

He just tends to have a very binary way of thinking funnily enough, and seems to struggle with empathy. The "I want it to be about me" point of his Last of Us frustrations was the real chin scratching -make a note on the clipboard- moment.

You can play Nier with just the same attack over and over again, sure, just as you can most all other games, precious Soulsborne included. They're all just mechanical parts after all. He brought it up because deep down he knows he 'did it wrong' on some level due to his dissatisfaction. "Those Platinum games and that combat" with hand wavy gesture argument enters into "well I don't have time for videogames" snobbery that once called out crumbles down as any kind of stance. The combat can be a story in and of itself due to moments and segments where you combo around with different weapons and feel like a badass.

As someone said earlier, the patented Ben intake of breath before thoughts would do Ian well IF he had some self realisation and impetus to not make often petulantly tenuous arguments. The lip synching conversation is the moment when, in an environment of even slight pushback, a casual "oh wait, I started talking absolute shit there!" self reflection could come out. Ian has done such a "gotcha" on other Allies for such personal bias issues many times before.

Ian can be a fun podcast member, but I almost wish he'd won the betting special (as he technically did) and then lost to betting stakes like "you can't mention Naughty Dog or Soulsborne games for a year". It's gotten that ridiculous and all "it's just me" means he deep down knows it.
 

UrbanRats

Member
I would love to call out Ian sometime.

"So why is it okay for you to play Nier in a way that exploits a certain move to make combat easier, against creators intent probably, but Dark souls and bloodborne aren't allowed to be easier games because of creators intent? What if I don't care about the combat and just want to play for the story/world"

I don't necessarily believe that but I would love to hear his response.

I don't understand your point.
Having that move in Nier WAS author intent, if you want to exploit it, you're free to.
In the same fashion, having many of the exploit in Souls games IS creator intent (aside from the more obviously buggy examples maybe) which also means the developers left those elements in for those who want to exploit them.

I mean, i don't get Ian's fascination with Souls combat myself, i love those games, but i don't think the combat in them is the "end all be all" at all, and i especially don't see what "Nier Automata with Bloodborne combat" even means (i wish Ben had challenged that statement, since we're on that topic, lol).

But i'm not sure what you mean, when you say "Dark souls and bloodborne aren't allowed to be easier games because of creators intent?"... Platinum's intent was to offer easier ways to get through the game, From's wasn't.
How is that inconsistent?

Honestly that episode of Frame Trap felt like Ian wanted it to be a psychiatrists couch it was filled with so much 'Ian-ness' and projection.
I think you're doing some projecting of your own.
Everybody is aware that Ian's attitude (this or that is trash, Souls make you a better person, etc) is tongue in cheek, he said so himself plenty of times.

I do wish the other allies would push back more in general though, as it has been said in the last page, it would make for more interesting discussions on topics that have been eviscerated plenty of times at this point, but it's not just a Ian thing.
I think the only one that gets significant (and positive) push back for his odd views, is Kyle, probably because he's good at fishing for it.
 

Maiar_m

Member
Sure, maybe, I think though there was once a question asked about pause mode in bloodborne and he was vehemently against it even though the guy needed to pause to attend to his newborn or something.
He's overprotective of that one precious formula he funnels all of videogame experiences through. I'd be very, very surprised if he didn't owe up to it, but I also believe Ian wouldn't be playing video games now if he didn't have that prism to work through them.
 

Auctopus

Member
I think one of the biggest issues is that since I myself tend to get wrapped up in the conversations, sometimes I'm just Ben when I need to be a more neutral voice. A devil's advocate as stated. I also don't want to betray my own opinions, but after thinking about it I probably worry about that more than I actually need to. There's nothing wrong with presenting a different view even if I don't agree with it as long as it contributes to a healthier conversation.

That's understandable, it's clear on camera that you enjoy the conversations on Frametrap and become engrossed in them which is no bad thing, I wouldn't want you to not feel 'present' in a conversation because you're too busy trying to play Devil's advocate. To clarify on my last post, it's not about being negative for the sake of it but rather being a catalyst for a slightly more robust conversation. I think sometimes you guys already do this unintentionally and it leads to more meaningful conversations/critiques. But when some of these "safe zone" games are brought it up, it feels like the Ally is tucking themselves in to a cosy bed and sometimes you need to whip off the blanket, Ben.
 

Mista Koo

Member
I love Automata and i would agree with Ian (and Jeff Gerstmann) when they say that the combat doesnt force you to get creative with combo's or anything, it also doesnt do a good job of explaining how much crazy stuff you can do with the combat in this game.

I was shocked when i watched combo videos of the game, in my 50 hours i only discovered a single launcher attack (and it was a counter), apparently you can do it at any time, with any weapons. But the game doesnt explain how.
It's a JRPG, why would you watch combo videos? If we do the EZA/Huber thing and worship the creator's intent (which I don't agree with) then he doesn't care about the mechanics at all, he just wants to make interesting weird stories and worlds.
 

UrbanRats

Member
It's a JRPG, why would you watch combo videos? If we do the EZA/Huber thing and worship the creator's intent (which I don't agree with) then he doesn't care about the mechanics at all, he just wants to make interesting weird stories and worlds.

What does that mean though?
And i'm sure Platinum's intent, had plenty to do with the combat.

Also, i hate the logic that a game has to force you to do something to make it worthwhile.

Bayonetta you can DEFINITELY win by mashing through, doesn't make the depth of that combat any less deep.

I think the idea of being strong armed into learning, has some intellectual lazyness behind it, because you can't be arsed to look deeper unless you see the benefits immediately.

I actually think the approach of something like Bayonetta is smarter, creating a layer of extreme accessibility, over something that can go very deep.

Nothing against harder to get into games of course, but at maximum depth being equal, i don't see the harder entry level as an element of prestige.
 

Holundrian

Unconfirmed Member
Feel like some take Ian as if he's forcing his views on others or as if he doesn't know himself that he has narrow tastes or that he's trying to argue things to an objective value assessment.

And honestly that just baffles me it's like people intentionally miss all the times Ian prefaces all his statements with basically variations of "that is just how I feel". As someone said that's the fun of Ian's takes similar to Bosman him trying to make his subjective and irrational personal tastes somewhat approachable.
And part of the fun are all the inconsistencies that do come with that given that it's all super subjective in the end. I roll my eyes at Bosman's too cool but on the inside I smile when I hear his justifications. And any time others try to corner(in a fun way) people on these things logically generally produces fun discussions cause people then generally go deep and try to find if there's a logic to the madness that can be put into something that can be expressed in relatable fashion or not. And to that point yeah it's fun to challenge them in that a way.

But I honestly only have facepalms for statements that just boil down to petty insults.
Also I just assume based on the nature of taste that we all have our "too cool" kind of nitpicks that people could nail us down for if they put their mind to it.

Also Ian is self aware and generally frames things in a way that I just don't get why people would be upset with. It's like people have difficulties accepting personal taste. It's a far cry from just making wrong statements and doubling down on them.

There are people out there making statements ala "Nioh is the hardest Soulslike game ever there's just no debate, I don't know how anyone can debate that" after having played 1-3 hours of Nioh never finishing it and dropping every other Souls title after a similar amount of time.
Ian is a far cry from that kind of arrogant ignorance.
 

jett

D-Member
I'd like it if Ian stopped treating Dark Souls/Bloodborne like the be all end all of video games. It's a bit ridiculous.
 

Visceir

Member
Feel like some take Ian as if he's forcing his views on others or as if he doesn't know himself that he has narrow tastes or that he's trying to argue things to an objective value assessment.

And honestly that just baffles me it's like people intentionally miss all the times Ian prefaces all his statements with basically variations of "that is just how I feel". As someone said that's the fun of Ian's takes similar to Bosman him trying to make his subjective and irrational personal tastes somewhat approachable.

"that's how I feel" isn't really a valid excuse for a lot of the nonsense he says.

I'm not all that bothered by what Ian says as I put little value in his opinions. It often feels like he just starts talking for the sake of talking without thinking much, either stating something really obvious or something 'that's how I feel' silly.

Ian often says how little interest he has for video games. I think that's fine. He might be the wrong person for 'in depth' video game talk and questions though.
 

Holundrian

Unconfirmed Member
"that's how I feel" isn't really a valid excuse for a lot of the nonsense he says.

I'm not all that bothered by what Ian says as I put little value in his opinions. It often feels like he just starts talking for the sake of talking without thinking much, either stating something really obvious or something 'that's how I feel' silly.

Ian often says how little interest he has for video games. I think that's fine. He might be the wrong person for 'in depth' video game talk and questions though.

Since when do people need to excuse subjective opinions that don't have any influence on others. Do I need to find a valid excuse for liking vanilla over chocolate now? What a fucking idiot I am when I personally wish for everything to taste like vanilla. Better ban me from society for such a blasphemous stance.
Also sorry that a personal feeling framed as that specifically is "nonsense". Should have better put it through the objective judge panel of objective justifications before I allowed myself to feel that way.

Also I'm not saying that we can't have a discussion about Ian being able to improve in other regards to make things more entertaining but the things people have been attacking just come over as super petty and display a lack of being able to accept perspectives that don't align with your own. (Like I can get if long time listeners are a bit tired of the Bloodborne angle but then people should ask for Ian to try to freshen up his explanations or a try a new angle of trying to communicate why he finds those games so compelling in comparison to other games instead of just going "hah what an idiot")

Also disagree hard of him being the wrong person for in depth video game talk. Ian bringing his extensive movie knowledge/etc can bring a take to discussions that isn't just the usual boring take, it's a bit of a shame that there isn't another ally that can play off of that stuff but things like how he feels Nier:A as an absurdist piece and how he relates to that are interesting takes. When you listen to a lot of podcasts and aren't just out to build an echo chamber around you it's stuff like this that keeps me engaged in listening cause the truth is a lot of stuff I listen to can often be just a repeat of the same opinion expressed in very similar manner cause I feel like the video game pundit scene often draws from super similar background experiences.

So people that are just very different I find more interesting even if I might totally disagree with them.
 

MrMette

Member
Since when do people need to excuse subjective opinions that don't have any influence on others. Do I need to find a valid excuse for liking vanilla over chocolate now? What a fucking idiot I am when I personally wish for everything to taste like vanilla. Better ban me from society for such a blasphemous stance.

Also I'm not saying that we can't have a discussion about Ian being able to improve in other regards to make things more entertaining but the things people have been attacking just come over as super petty and display a lack of being able to accept perspectives that don't align with your own.
I feel like most of the internet is like this the last few years. I can't stand it to be honest. I don't mind that people don't agree with some else opinion as I believe that can be a good thing, but most people attack everything which isn't the same as their believes/opinions and most of the time in a non-constructive manner. Also, if you try to explain your stance to them, a lot of them don't even have the decency to listen or try to understand where you are coming from.

I am not saying this is the case with this example, but I do believe a lot of people got spoiled too much and always got what they wanted, so they are not used that other people can think differently.
As long as people try to understand where other people who have different opinions are coming from, it's fine with me and if they don't attack them for thinking different then they do.

I didn't really see anything wrong with the things Ian said this frame trap.

I agree that he does compare a lot of stuff with the Souls games (and lately Zelda) and he has a tendency to write everything else off (btw, while I did enjoy TLOU, I am not a big fan of the combat and the combat is one of the reasons I couldn't finish Uncharted 1 and that I never touched an Uncharted game after that, I did love the story/interaction and the characters however in TLOU and Uncharted).

Sure he tries to point out a lot that he loves lore-based story more, but I don't see anything wrong with that. How can anybody else's believes/feelings be "wrong".
There is nothing wrong with having different opinions and people should be able to express how they feel.
 

Bahorel

Member
Sure, maybe, I think though there was once a question asked about pause mode in bloodborne and he was vehemently against it even though the guy needed to pause to attend to his newborn or something.

I'm pretty sure you're thinking of a neogaf thread. I remember reading about the newborn guy here and I've listened to every podcast

I can't wait for the day that will never happen when people will stop regarding Ian's opinions as a challenge to their masculinity. Huber called horizon zero dawns quests "dogshit" but nobody went apeshit in the comments. Every single comment on the last podcast was about Ian and it's honestly sad, when he actively says "but I enjoyed the game" or "it's just not for me"
 
I'm pretty sure you're thinking of a neogaf thread. I remember reading about the newborn guy here and I've listened to every podcast

I can't wait for the day that will never happen when people will stop regarding Ian's opinions as a challenge to their masculinity. Huber called horizon zero dawns quests "dogshit" but nobody went apeshit in the comments. Every single comment on the last podcast was about Ian and it's honestly sad, when he actively says "but I enjoyed the game" or "it's just not for me"

I'm not sure if Ian was there, but they definitely talked about it on the podcast or FrameTrap. I think there was even a follow-up email.
 

UrbanRats

Member
I'm pretty sure you're thinking of a neogaf thread. I remember reading about the newborn guy here and I've listened to every podcast

I can't wait for the day that will never happen when people will stop regarding Ian's opinions as a challenge to their masculinity. Huber called horizon zero dawns quests "dogshit" but nobody went apeshit in the comments. Every single comment on the last podcast was about Ian and it's honestly sad, when he actively says "but I enjoyed the game" or "it's just not for me"
Hey in the GT days Huber got shit in the comments too!

I agree Ian makes it very clear from what position hes coming from, even though i find it still cringeworthy when he goes on about how "classy" Sony is... ;p.

Some of his quirks can definitely be irritating for some people, but i think that's normal, not everyone can be compatible with everyone else.
As long as youre not a dick about it.

I think its important, moreover, to have as diverse a range of opinions as possible.
That includes Ian's approach to enjouing videogames from a very subjective pov.
 
I think its important, moreover, to have as diverse a range of opinions as possible.

But the opinions should have some thought behind them, especially given their positions.
Ian calling out Ben on racist remarks for using the word niggle or reacting in disgust when Ben said he played Dark Souls III on an Xbox don't add to any conversation, they're there to poke the bear because he wants shenanigans.
 

MrMette

Member
But the opinions should have some thought behind them, especially given their positions.
Ian calling out Ben on racist remarks for using the word niggle or reacting in disgust when Ben said he played Dark Souls III on an Xbox don't add to any conversation, they're there to poke the bear because he wants shenanigans.

I am not sure if he did those things on purpose to be honest. I myself wouldn't care if somebody uses the word niggle (if it's not meant in a racist way, it's not racist imo) and people can play games on whatever system they want.

Some people just react out loud more then others (myself included). Sure, you can try to manage that and I am sure he does, but sometimes it just comes out. I have a tendency to just say what I think, which can be a big problem, especially because I tend to lose my filter that stops me from swearing or shouting when I am irritated/pissed off. I have had that happen at work as well, which isn't ideal. I have learnt to deal with that over the years and it is better then it was before, but I still sometimes get outbursts like that.

Ian doesn't seem to have that in that extend (Huber sometimes does), but I can assure you it's not something you can always prevent from happening.

I like hearing the allies' opinion about games. I am not always agreeing with them and there are certainly times when I don't agree with Ian's way of thinking, but I don't see anything wrong with that. The world would be boring if everybody was thinking the same way.

There are times I agree with Ian (the combat of TLAO/Uncharted, I am not feeling TLG either), other times I think he is over exaggerating (the niggle thing was one of those times). I am not seeing anything wrong with that.
 

Bulby

Member
But the opinions should have some thought behind them, especially given their positions.
Ian calling out Ben on racist remarks for using the word niggle or reacting in disgust when Ben said he played Dark Souls III on an Xbox don't add to any conversation, they're there to poke the bear because he wants shenanigans.

But thats just his personality and its good to have personality in discussions. They are a group of friends and I think some gentle ribbing isnt particularly out of order. Just like when Kyle regularly trolls people.
 
I like that Ian is true to himself about things and even acknowledges he himself feels broken or in the wrong about things. Sometimes it is hard to rationalize why you love one thing but don't like something else that is similar. At least I can relate to that. I love sci fi and love narrative driven games and yet I don't like the Mass Effect games. I can try to come up with a lot of reasons but they would just be used against me as reasons people love Mass Effect.
 

UrbanRats

Member
But the opinions should have some thought behind them, especially given their positions.
Ian calling out Ben on racist remarks for using the word niggle or reacting in disgust when Ben said he played Dark Souls III on an Xbox don't add to any conversation, they're there to poke the bear because he wants shenanigans.
Yes sometimes Ian says stupid things, like everybody else in the world (also his quips against Microsoft are in jest, as annoying as they may be).
I dont think it immediately means he puts no thought behind what he says 100% of the time.

Which is also the reason why i said more pushback would be a good thing, forcing people to explore their own train of thoughts and all that.

When Ian mentions his distaste for ND's narrative approach, for example, its not some random bullshit without merit, but something that just needs to be explored in a deeper way.

But again, i totally concede that sometimes, some of the things he says can make you roll your eyes, especially when it involves his love for Sony or Souls, it can get overbearing.
Everybody has an annoying quirk, here or there, though.
 

Ultimadrago

Member
"You do you" would be his response I guess? Ian's opinions about games are interesting as they are almost as surrealist as Bosman's in their logic. Once I've accepted​ that he's just expressing how he personally feels (really feels, like, it's almost a reflex at this point) about games but doesn't really care about having you adhere to that perception, I found that I could listen to Ian's interventions without any qualms.

I'd largely agree with this. Ian used to bother me much more with how he came off than he does now. I suppose I've simply gotten used to it and nowadays he even constantly confirms that it's just his personal thing. He still gets to those points where I do have a hard time listening to him, but it's considerably lessened now. Also, his blunt take on topics where panels that need a word or two of criticism (very often) is very appreciated.

Alternatively, as someone that followed the Easy Allies because of The Final Bosman, I've come to dislike hearing Bosman's explanations on games more and more. I'm actually happy that he doesn't do reviews now. I hope it doesn't get to the point where I dislike his persona. But it's odd seeing how much I loved and agreed with his quirks on that show versus his actual take on games that I exposed myself to post-GT. I still love him though and that "surrealist" approach as you say, still contains a large part of his charm.
 

Bahorel

Member
I love Ian, though I've had a different experience with him than most have. I mentioned before that wrote to him in a bout of depression and we exchanged a few long emails, so I have gotten a very personal view of how kind and caring he is. No opinion he has about video games, even when he doesn't enjoy the same things that I do, will affect how I feel about his character as a person. Unfortunately most people will not have an experience with him on a personal level and will only judge him on some very surface level comments he has made.

I also felt like I understood what he was trying to communicate about ND, even though he said he didn't understand exactly why. Not that I didn't enjoy the Last of Us, I thought TLOU was great, but I have had the "why am even I doing this" feeling from other games, where it feels like your influence doesn't affect anything. I think depression, at least for me, plays a big part in it too, when it comes to experiencing a game and feeling like you're going through the motions as opposed to feeling engaged. It really depends on your mood at the time you're playing if you're going to have a memory of enjoyment or distaste.
 
I hate to be that guy, but this Edith Finch conversation on Frame Trap.....

"We don't want to spoil it, just want to frame it for people who aren't sure about it yet"

Then without warning transitions into specifics about a lot of scenes, at the end saying "hopefully you played it by this point"

I wasn't planning on playing anytime soon but I'd like to check it out at some point. It's certainly not like the game is ruined or anything, but yea..... The timestamps thing works when it's like "ok skip ahead if you don't want to hear this"

Otherwise woo Frame Trap
 
I haven't watched the recent FT but I just wanted to chime in on the discussion at hand and say: Ian is great.

I disagree with him on most things gaming-wise but I love having him on because he provides a very unique/cool view. If I were to offer some constructive criticism, it would be along the lines of having the moderators for any particular program push him a bit more to elaborate. His views are actually quite interesting and I love, on a couple of FTs so far, when Ben prods him a bit more and you can get a deeper look as to why he has the preferences he does. That's actually quite fascinating for me to listen to.

Just personally, I was actually kind of shocked when I saw that Ian was enjoying Persona 5. I think, because of my limited exposure to EZA, and because of my limited exposure to Ian's views on games, I'd always thought he was the sort of person who loved games that gave the player control, didn't waste player time and just generally allowed players to craft their own experiences. And a lot of that, you don't really get in Persona. It's a very directed experience, it can at times feel like it's wasting player time etc.

Granted, I'm a few Frametraps behind, but I'm hoping there's an interesting discussion somewhere where I can sort of get an understanding as to why the game is clicking for Ian. Or maybe I just have had a huge misread on his gaming preferences given his love for Souls/Nioh and similar titles.

--

Edit: ^^ Good to know about the Edith Finch bit.
 

Bahorel

Member
I hate to be that guy, but this Edith Finch conversation on Frame Trap.....

"We don't want to spoil it, just want to frame it for people who aren't sure about it yet"

Then without warning transitions into specifics about a lot of scenes, at the end saying "hopefully you played it by this point"

I wasn't planning on playing anytime soon but I'd like to check it out at some point. It's certainly not like the game is ruined or anything, but yea..... The timestamps thing works when it's like "ok skip ahead if you don't want to hear this"

Otherwise woo Frame Trap

Yea I felt spoiled about a few things about Edith Finch too. I know about the time stamps thing but I thought since they did say "if you weren't sure you can keep listening" so I thought it was safe.

I did notice Huber sucked in his breath after Blood said a spoiler as if he was like "oh shit you dropped one" but he didn't say anything. Unless he was just reacting to the spoiler itself.

Either way though I'm just going to make an effort to wait long enough to forget some of the things I heard, because I would like to play it.
 
To be fair I think they started the Edith Finch discussion by saying the less you know the better. After they said that I immediately skipped forward.
You're right

Generally if there's something I care about (Yakuza was a big one) I'll skip if it seems like they're getting specific but Edith Finch is more of a "huh, I'll grab it on sale or something"

As I said though, after the "less you know the better" thing they said they weren't going to spoil anything, just wanted to frame it for people to know what the structure/setup is like. That's the stuff I was interested in that pretty quickly turned to specifics I'd rather not know (especially in a discussion talking about how it's the surprises that help make the moments, and touching on several things I never would've expected)

Worsened by panel reaction noises like "ehhh shouldn't have said that" lol
 

ShadyK54

Member
My one & only take I've had on Ian, no matter how many times I disagree with his opinions & such, is "man, he's weird. But he's still really cool!"

It's the same with my take on Kyle recently (admittedly because his time & opinions on Persona 5 just bewildered me to no end).

But like I said, they're still really cool people & I value their opinions, even if I don't agree with them half the time.
 

Auctopus

Member
On Tabletop, right off the bat, Ben just
imposed a time limit. Could we be heading towards a conclusion?

Hmmm, travelling around in
someone's dreams/sub-conscious with a certain time limit
before they have to complete the objective.

Why does that sound familiar? What Popular, Eastern, Role-playing, Sim, Otaku-Narrative Action game does that remind me of?
 

Hasney

Member
Hmmm, travelling around in
someone's dreams/sub-conscious with a certain time limit
before they have to complete the objective.

Why does that sound familiar? What Popular, Eastern, Role-playing, Sim, Otaku-Narrative Action game does that remind me of?

Wait, they're
not in a dream now.
 
Haven't listened to FT yet, but from the comments I'm guessing I'm going to agree with Ian on Nier:A. I'm enjoying the game, but I think it's poorly designed in how it integrates its gameplay. It *feels* outsourced.

It still feels like a 9/10 game regardless, because it gets points for trying to do new and creative things. But it's less than the sum of its parts.
 

Hasney

Member
Oh, sorry I'm not actually caught up. I jumped in to see
how the time limit was gonna work and saw something about a half-figured man's dream that's kyle was in?

Ah, last week
Kyle went into a dream to get some information from someone
 

mishakoz

Member
I don't understand your point.
Having that move in Nier WAS author intent, if you want to exploit it, you're free to.
In the same fashion, having many of the exploit in Souls games IS creator intent (aside from the more obviously buggy examples maybe) which also means the developers left those elements in for those who want to exploit them.

I mean, i don't get Ian's fascination with Souls combat myself, i love those games, but i don't think the combat in them is the "end all be all" at all, and i especially don't see what "Nier Automata with Bloodborne combat" even means (i wish Ben had challenged that statement, since we're on that topic, lol).

But i'm not sure what you mean, when you say "Dark souls and bloodborne aren't allowed to be easier games because of creators intent?"... Platinum's intent was to offer easier ways to get through the game, From's wasn't.
How is that inconsistent?


I think you're doing some projecting of your own.
Everybody is aware that Ian's attitude (this or that is trash, Souls make you a better person, etc) is tongue in cheek, he said so himself plenty of times.

I do wish the other allies would push back more in general though, as it has been said in the last page, it would make for more interesting discussions on topics that have been eviscerated plenty of times at this point, but it's not just a Ian thing.
I think the only one that gets significant (and positive) push back for his odd views, is Kyle, probably because he's good at fishing for it.

Sure, I don't think exploiting a move so that combat becomes a nil factor is really author intent, it's hard to say for sure but if the creative director was sitting behind you he probably would be slightly disappointed. same if you found a cheese strat in souls, you can kill tower Knight with soul arrows from a spot he can't hit you. Being left in the game doesn't necessarily mean author intent, it gets blurrier than that.

My point is why is Nier allowed to be a game Ian plays through for the story (he probably wouldn't have finished it without that combat strat) and Bloodborne isn't allowed to be touched, you aren't allowed a similar option in Souls games. If I want to go through bloodborne for the story or world or whatever, like he went through Nier, I would love a way to get through combat easier. Again, don't necessarily think that.

Also that bloodborne pause question was definitely a podcast question at some point. I have no idea when.

For the record, I like Ian. I just think that the discussion in general could use some push back but Ben said a page or so ago he wants to be devil's advocate more so we hopefully will see that.
 

Budi

Member
To be fair I think they started the Edith Finch discussion by saying the less you know the better. After they said that I immediately skipped forward.

Yup also skipped that discussion, looked like it was quite long talk for a few hour game. So I figured I'd better skip it since it's already ranked high on my wishlist.
 
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