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[Zhengi]

I doubt the first thing on the minds of people at Marvel when they were brainstorming Doctor Strange was how they would avoid causing controversy with China. They will never admit it, but they wanted Swinton from the beginning. In fact, according to her:

I was in a very fortunate position of not auditioning at all. I was working in LA and I was told that Scott Derrickson wanted to meet with me.

We had tea and he told me he was going to do this film. He told me, “Doctor Strange is going to be a big, tent pole Marvel film about creation, not about destruction.”

Then he said that he had written this part for me. He said, “If you don't do it, I'll have to rewrite it.” So I was flattered and honored and intrigued. Then I read the script and I felt really good about it. I was very lucky.

http://www.babysavers.com/tilda-swinton-doctor-strange-and-working-with-marvel/

That whole thing about the controversy with China was just Marvel's way of getting out of all the accusations of whitewashing.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

I doubt the first thing on the minds of people at Marvel when they were brainstorming Doctor Strange was how they would avoid causing controversy with China. They will never admit it, but they wanted Swinton from the beginning. In fact, according to her:



http://www.babysavers.com/tilda-swinton-doctor-strange-and-working-with-marvel/

That whole thing about the controversy with China was just Marvel's way of getting out of all the accusations of whitewashing.

How am I not seeing this till now?!

 

[the_darkness]

How to be Asian in Hollywood:
1. Audition for generic role. Get rejected because they needed someone with more star power, or more bankability *coughwhitecough* or had a different vision
2. Be told to wait for roles more suitable, presumably for Asian characters
3. Audition for Asian character. Be told they're actually going in a different direction again *coughwhitecough*
4. Repeat until disillusionment gets the better of you

Alternatively: be gifted parts based on the colour of your skin, regardless of acting ability.

See, I can be reductive too.

 

[jerry113]

Wow. Props.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

Good on Skrein. The producers sound like morons.



5. Know martial arts.

6.) best cast solely as the generic Asian henchman/sidekick who never speaks.

 

[Zoe]

David Harbour's response (playing Hellboy in this reboot)

It's an injustice now? Wasn't he praising the casting before? :lol

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Alternatively: be gifted parts based on the colour of your skin, regardless of acting ability.

See, I can be reductive too.

Exactly! Now you're getting it! Just look at Sam Worthington and Taylor Kitsch!

 

[- J - D -]

The studio not putting out a press brief simultaneously makes me want to believe Skrein made this decision on his own terms, which would make me think pretty highly of him right now.

Has Mike Mignola said anything?

 

[Buckle]

Good on Ed for doing the right thing.

He told me, ”Doctor Strange is going to be a big, tent pole Marvel film about creation, not about destruction."

I enjoyed Doctor Strange but come on.

 

[Tyrant Rave]

The studio not putting out a press brief simultaneously makes me want to believe Skrein made this decision on his own terms, which would make me think pretty highly of him right bow.

Has Mike Mignola said anything?

Mignola's retweeted some articles about it and thanked Skrein for his statement and said it was nicely done on his Twitter

 

[enigmatic_alex44]

Oh wow.

How awkward will it be when an interviewer brings this up and asks Scarlett why she didn't turn down Ghost in the Shell?

 

[- J - D -]

Mignola's retweeted some articles about it and thanked Skrein for his statement and said it was nicely done on his Twitter

Cool, some words after the fact is better than nothing, I guess.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

Oh wow.

How awkward will it be when an interviewer brings this up and asks Scarlett why she didn't turn down Ghost in the Shell?

She'll pretend it never happened.

I already do.

 

[Elegant Weapon]

Alternatively: be gifted parts based on the colour of your skin, regardless of acting ability.

See, I can be reductive too.

Yeah, I'm sure no asians in america have the acting talent to carry lead roles in Hollywood films

only white people have the acting ability for that

 

[Shaanyboi]

Alternatively: be gifted parts based on the colour of your skin, regardless of acting ability.

See, I can be reductive too.

Right, because Hollywood totally isn't known for finding any excuse to undercut people of colour.

It's that Asian people just aren't talented enough...

 

[Schadenfreude]

He was the best Daario, you bastards!

 

[SpideySenses]

Massive massive props to Ed. Good shit.

Also, this makes ScarJo and Emma Stone look way worse in retrospect.

I don't think it's fair to lump ScarJo and Stone together in relation to Skerin, ScarJo is a 1:1 comparison as the backlash to her happened before a single frame has been shot and she still took the role. With Stone the backlash happened after release and she promptly apologized, Skerin took the role initially, if the backlash had occurred at a later date, he could have easily ended up in the same situation as Stone.

 

[rackham]

Very cool. Scarjo could learn something from this. Hope he gets more work for other stuff.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Yeah, I'm sure no asians in america have the acting talent to carry lead roles in Hollywood films

only white people have the acting ability for that

Right, because Hollywood totally isn't known for finding any excuse to undercut people of colour.

It's that Asian people just aren't talented enough...

The irony is what he's talking about most benefits/ applies to white actors

 

[mdubs]

Classy move by Mr. Skrein. The production should give him another role in the movie.



It made sense that they didn't want to anger China by casting a Tibetan actor but they could have done the next best thing and cast an Asian actor. Be they Korean, Japanese, Chinese, Vietnamese, and the list goes on. It wasn't logical for them to jump from "well due to historical issues, we can't cast a Tibetan actor because that'll impact China which is a huge movie market," to, "so let's make the character white!"

Please don't casually lump all of us people from those countries together as if we're all the same. It's extremely insulting and I hope you and others think about this before you do it next time.

 

[CrackPebbles]

That's awesome. Props to him for doing it I know most wouldn't.

 

[the_darkness]

Yeah, I'm sure no asians in america have the acting talent to carry lead roles in Hollywood films

only white people have the acting ability for that

Right, because Hollywood totally isn't known for finding any excuse to undercut people of colour.

It's that Asian people just aren't talented enough...

The irony is what he's talking about most benefits/ applies to white actors

No, the irony is that the 3 of you quoted my entire post but either didn't read, or didn't comprehend the second line.

Is there a systemic issue with representation of minorities in Hollywood? Absolutely no doubt.

But it's difficult to pass judgement on each individual casting decision without knowing the extenuating circumstances.

I fucking SAID that Hollywood needs to ensure that minorities are given equal opportunity for roles but that doesn't necessarily mean that a minority will always be the appropriate choice.

I'm in no way saying that Skrein is the only actor capable of playing this part, nor am I saying there isn't a capable Asian actor, but without knowing who did or didn't apply/audition and how the process played out, shitting on the casting directors and producers and applying pressure which results in someone dropping out of the role seems potentially misguided.

 

[Shaanyboi]

No, the irony is that the 3 of you quoted my entire post but either didn't read, or didn't comprehend the second line.

Is there a systemic issue with representation of minorities in Hollywood? Absolutely no doubt.

But it's difficult to pass judgement on each individual casting decision without knowing the extenuating circumstances.

I fucking SAID that Hollywood needs to ensure that minorities are given equal opportunity for roles but that doesn't necessarily mean that a minority will always be the appropriate choice.

I'm in no way saying that Skrein is the only actor capable of playing this part, nor am I saying there isn't a capable Asian actor, but without knowing who did or didn't apply/audition and how the process played out, shitting on the casting directors and producers and applying pressure which results in someone dropping out of the role seems potentially misguided.

Uh usually when you're presenting a Japanese character, it's appropriate to go with a Japanese actor. When an unshakable majority of Hollywood caters to white actors, I think they can be asked to make that small concession.

 

[Zhengi]

No, the irony is that the 3 of you quoted my entire post but either didn't read, or didn't comprehend the second line.

Is there a systemic issue with representation of minorities in Hollywood? Absolutely no doubt.

But it's difficult to pass judgement on each individual casting decision without knowing the extenuating circumstances.

I fucking SAID that Hollywood needs to ensure that minorities are given equal opportunity for roles but that doesn't necessarily mean that a minority will always be the appropriate choice.

I'm in no way saying that Skrein is the only actor capable of playing this part, nor am I saying there isn't a capable Asian actor, but without knowing who did or didn't apply/audition and how the process played out, shitting on the casting directors and producers and applying pressure which results in someone dropping out of the role seems potentially misguided.

So you're saying for people to give a system that has been traditionally against minorities the benefit of the doubt despite the many decades this system having excluded minorities? Or are you saying that White people have traditionally been the best actors and that they should continued to be given all the roles?

 

[FUME5]

Huh, respect.

 

[Skux]

That's a classy statement. Really well done.

 

[Loxley]

The best Daario continues being the best.

Somebody always has to be first, and really it it'll take white actors flat-out refusing these roles to change the minds of the studios. Obviously change doesn't happen overnight, but the statement makes it crystal clear why he made the decision. Hopefully Skrein's actions and words will snowball and set a precedent.

 

[jayu26]

Mad respect. Let's see if Studio actually follows suit.

 

[Platy]

5. Know martial arts.

And you will be casted for the generic 5 minute only but much more charismatic villain

See : Iron Fist

 

[the_darkness]

So you're saying for people to give a system that has been traditionally against minorities the benefit of the doubt despite the many decades this system having excluded minorities? Or are you saying that White people have traditionally been the best actors and that they should continued to be given all the roles?

I'm saying there are far more mainstream white actors than English speaking Asian actors and it's possible in a particular circumstance that someone like Ed Skrein is the better choice to play a fictional character in an adaptation from another medium in which that character has Asian heritage.

Don't think too deeply on it and don't put words in my mouth.

But you know if you want to keep ignoring the fact that I've said there's an issue that needs to be addressed from the ground up that's cool too.

 

[cartographer]

No, the irony is that the 3 of you quoted my entire post but either didn't read, or didn't comprehend the second line.

Is there a systemic issue with representation of minorities in Hollywood? Absolutely no doubt.

But it's difficult to pass judgement on each individual casting decision without knowing the extenuating circumstances.

I fucking SAID that Hollywood needs to ensure that minorities are given equal opportunity for roles but that doesn't necessarily mean that a minority will always be the appropriate choice.

I'm in no way saying that Skrein is the only actor capable of playing this part, nor am I saying there isn't a capable Asian actor, but without knowing who did or didn't apply/audition and how the process played out, shitting on the casting directors and producers and applying pressure which results in someone dropping out of the role seems potentially misguided.

The ole "of course there's a problem, just please don't point out specific examples" routine. Always a good one.

 

[Not]

Holy shit. This guy is unexpectedly awesome.

 

[Figboy79]

Damn. I really didn't see that coming. Good on him, and respect for using his status and position to speak out against discriminatory casting.

As a marginalized minority, I really appreciate this gesture. The ball is in the studio's court. I mean, it always was, but actors don't usually turn down high profile gigs like this. Especially an actor like Skrein, who I wouldn't say is household or bringing in RDJ money. Really classy of him though take this hit in the name of equality and representation. His statement was really good.

 

[the_darkness]

The ole "of course there's a problem, just please don't point out specific examples" routine. Always a good one.

Swing and a miss.

 

[Raylan Targaryen]

By all means ensure that Asian actors have equal representation in the casting process, but if nobody actually comes forward and puts forth a worthy audition, I've got zero problems with the role going to an actor who doesn't fit the character's original ethnic profile.

yeah cuz no asian actor is as talented as ed skrein

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I'm saying there are far more mainstream white actors than English speaking Asian actors and it's possible in a particular circumstance that someone like Ed Skrein is the better choice to play a fictional character in an adaptation from another medium in which that character has Asian heritage.

Ed Skrein isn't even a mainstream white actor, though. He's Ed Skrein.

So once you remove the "mainstream" qualifier, you're left with little-knowns and unknowns vying for the same role. A role that, in this case, is of Asian descent.

What situation is there at that point where it's a positive to cast a white actor to play someone of Asian descent?

People are pushing back against your argument—despite your allowing for the fact the film industry has a terrible track record in giving non-whites the sorts of opportunities at stardom as they do white people—because it seems to allow for the notion there could arise a scenario in which a white person is better at being of Asian descent than someone of that ethnicity.

I would push back against that notion too, were it to come up in a discussion.

There's no scenario in which Ed Skrein is the best possible call to play someone who is half Japanese when there are actors of that ethnicity available to play the part.

Ed Skrein seems to agree with this.

 

[the_darkness]

yeah cuz no asian actor is as talented as ed skrein

Totally what I said. Nailed it.

 

[BigDes]

Good for Ed Skrein

Classy move by him.

 

[old manatee]

That's awesome. Now if they cast a white person anyway they will look like total assholes.

 

[Not]

Yeah, I'm sure no asians in america have the acting talent to carry lead roles in Hollywood films

only white people have the acting ability for that

Fucking white people indirectly admitting that they think skin color makes people naturally superior actors in every one of these arguments

A nonwhite person was cast? Oh, well, it's obvious a white person would have done it better

Racism makes you stupid, trying to find a rational, intelligent argument to justify it doesn't counteract that.

 

[WrenchNinja]

I'm saying there are far more mainstream white actors than English speaking Asian actors and it's possible in a particular circumstance that someone like Ed Skrein is the better choice to play a fictional character in an adaptation from another medium in which that character has Asian heritage.

You know this is horseshit. Who are you trying to fool.

 

[dohdough]

I happened to like Dario 1.0 in GoT *shrugs*

 

[the_darkness]

Fucking white people indirectly admitting that they think skin color makes people naturally superior actors in every one of these arguments

A nonwhite person was cast? Oh, well, it's obvious a white person would have done it better

Racism makes you stupid, trying to find a rational, intelligent argument to justify it doesn't counteract that.

Your reading comprehension fucking sucks.

Labelling someone a racist because you don't understand what they said is some bullshit.

 

[Not]

By all means ensure that Asian actors have equal representation in the casting process, but if nobody actually comes forward and puts forth a worthy audition, I've got zero problems with the role going to an actor who doesn't fit the character's original ethnic profile.

For some reason you have more innate trust in a modern Hollywood casting department than the majority of Asian actors looking for work. You're ridiculously transparent.

 

[Ratrat]

I'm saying there are far more mainstream white actors than English speaking Asian actors and it's possible in a particular circumstance that someone like Ed Skrein is the better choice to play a fictional character in an adaptation from another medium in which that character has Asian heritage.

Don't think too deeply on it and don't put words in my mouth.

But you know if you want to keep ignoring the fact that I've said there's an issue that needs to be addressed from the ground up that's cool too.

Maybe in an indie film with only local talent.

That excuse is idiotic with Hollywood. If they can bring talent from Japan and China they can certainly find an Asian American.

 

[Raylan Targaryen]

Totally what I said. Nailed it.

Good on him for taking a stand but I feel bad that he felt like he had to give up a payday to be the tipping point.

the other part of your post in case you forgot

but if nobody actually comes forward and puts forth a worthy audition, I've got zero problems with the role going to an actor who doesn't fit the character's original ethnic profile.

I'm not sure if you know how the English language works or if you even understand what you're saying, but you're implying that he was the only actor to put up a worthy audition and that he gave it up because people complained about his race.

like that's literally what you said.

 

[the_darkness]

For some reason you have more innate trust in a modern Hollywood casting department than the majority of Asian actors looking for work. You're ridiculously transparent.

What was the casting process for Hellboy? Was it an open casting call? If so, who showed up and read for the part? How were their auditions? Did anyone audition better than Skrein?

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Your reading comprehension fucking sucks.

Labelling someone a racist because you don't understand what they said is some bullshit.

Again, I think people understood your point pretty clearly. I'm pretty sure I did, although I'm interested in hearing how you could parse your argument any other way than the one I (and most everyone else is reading). You're trying to suggest there is a scenario in which:

All the actors in the United States (or if you wanna shrink this down to just Los Angeles, we can do that too) are made aware of an upcoming part in a superhero film - not even a main role, just a supporting part - and that part is for a person who is half-Japanese, that there is a possibility a white man will be better at portraying half-Japanese person than any of the other actors of Asian descent going up for the role.

This is the core of your argument: A hypothetical in which there is such a dearth of capable Asian-American actors that producers/directors/casting agents have no choice but to select the white man for the good of the film.

You're making an excuse for the practice of whitewashing. However small that excuse is, no matter how large the acknowledgement that film industry casting practices are fucked up, your argument boils down to, essentially "Look, if Asian-American actors can't hack it, and the white guy just does better than they do, you gotta cast the white guy."

No you don't.

 

[the_darkness]

the other part of your post in case you forgot



I'm not sure if you know how the English language works or if you even understand what you're saying, but you're implying that he was the only actor to put up a worthy audition and that he gave it up because people complained about his race.

like that's literally what you said.

Nope. What I said is that he was judged by the casting directors to be the best fit for this role.

Best =/= only ok?

 

[duckroll]

I didn't think much of his acting based on Daario 1.0, but I respect him so much as a fellow human being now. Can't say I've seen this happen before in this way. No flimsy excuses or debate, just a clear sign of understanding and empathy. Tons and tons of respect for him.