Support NeoGAF

[HomerSimpson-Man]

So...

PS4 being more powerful than Xbox One: Truth, fact, math

Midrange gaming PC already being more powerful than both: Needles dick waving

Nice double standard

Now listen here, you.

Them PCs can come into a room with massive titan sized dicks that can cock slap an entire room of people with a mere turn or coming all integrated like a woodpecker.

We talking about 2 specific dicks here in a sword fight; of specific portion, speed, size, strength, and girth, that was caressed and handled by the fine people of AMD; throwing a thousand possible combinations just needlessly muddles the waters and gets people even more needlessly riled up!

 

[StevieP]

What is the standard PC to compare it against? And who agreed upon it?

We're enthusiasts on this forum so we compare enthusiast hardware. Not grandma's internet browser. Obviously. However being a modular setup, you can spend whatever you'd like and cater your gaming to your needs obviously. There's no need to go into a "what do I spend" debate because there are other threads for that. This one's comparing multiplatform performance. On enthusiast hardware, there really isn't a contest.

Your thought above don't make a bit if sense.

Your "Box" is modular in nature. Every bit if it can be switched out or upgraded to effect game performance. Not to mention your windows OS, and manual software tweaks. Your box is completely opposite of what consoles are. PC's are not consoles no matter how hard you try and inject them into a conversation that has fuck all to do about your PC.

This will be my final post of this nature, because apparently we have segregated threads now (wtf IN&OUT? no need to go there - we're all friendly here on GAF) that don't warrant discussion on which multiplats are better where (which was the reason GAF user "Horp" brought PC users into this discussion). However a lot of your notions (such as manual tweaking - entirely optional) and interfaces are out of date. It's all just as easy now to operate your games and even hardware and drivers with (free) services like Steam. Modularity is a net positive, however, and you are correct that it's different. My only point was that it seemed a bit disingenuous to compare the same multiplats being compared here and made a huge fuss over in a 40 page thread about a (small in comparison) 500gf GPU difference when it's fairly easy to have a double or triple difference in performance should you choose to want to have the best multiplatform options.

There will be plenty of people purchasing GTA 5 shortly on systems with massively compromised performance/IQ in comparison to the PC build that Rockstar is showing in the commercials. And that's cool! It's totally fine. I've played plenty of subpar ports this generation, on and off the PC. But I don't pretend that I'm getting the best version when I play them, and I don't fool myself into thinking i'm playing the best version over small difference from one platform to another when I myself have chosen to play it on a console where compromise is in its very nature. When I play on the consoles, I accept things like tearing and subpar framerates and awful IQ, and I don't even see it after I get used to it. It's always going to be in second (or third, or 4th or whatever) place, and I don't proclaim that Call of Duty looks SO MUCH BETTER on the 360 than on the PS3 because of a slightly less subHD render. If I cared SO MUCH about how much better it looks from one minor difference to another, why would I limit myself to a choice between 2 subpar versions in comparison to the one that runs in 1080p/60 (or whichever resolution I happen to choose on my own)? I hope that sort of helps you understand my disconnect here.

Should you choose to limit yourself to a gaming box built by either Sony or MS instead of you, yes the PS4 will absolutely perform better. It will have better multiplatform games, and is a better value as a gaming box limited to that comparison. That much is not in question and nobody should question it at this point. But let's not pretend there aren't other gaming boxes either, running the same games. A box is a box is a box. It's just a means to an end. When the HDMI cable leaves the box, it does the same thing whether it's a $4000 BF4 PC or an Ouya.

 

[Kujo]

It sucks that I have to pre-order a PS4 to get this achievement now. Thanks a lot Sony

 

[OldAsUrSock]

Oh there's always going to be a compromise on some level.

Building a PC that would comfortably outperform PS4 would likely cost ~700$ at this point, so it's about whether or not you're willing to spend the extra $300. And of course, the longer you're going to wait, the bigger advantage you're going to get for those extra $300. If the extra $300 is out of question though, then PS4 would indeed be the next best choice as far as getting quality gaming experience.

$700! No, $600 or less

 

[Latvian Hitman]

I honeslty doubt it'll be that big. I think it'll be more like GC to og Xbox, judging from the stuff we've seen like Ryse/Forza and Infamous/KZ.

You don't think it will be that big because of launch window games?

K.

Have you looked at the differences between the two GPUs? They're not small. At all.

 

[Ol No Bones]

Microsoft spent a lot of money becoming the "hardcore" gaming machine which brought a lot of more casual gamers into online competitive multiplayer and now they want to be the casuals kinect machine. they think people don't care about specs as long as the graphics are somewhat close. Casuals don't care about specs but they sure as hell care about price. They should have a vision first for progress in gaming and then the features are icing on the cake.

 

[dragonelite]

MS will not write the drivers for the GPU.

Even if they did invent direct X.

What makes you so sure?

 

[Freshmaker]

Should you choose to limit yourself to a gaming box built by either Sony or MS instead of you, yes the PS4 will absolutely perform better. It will have better multiplatform games, and is a better value as a gaming box limited to that comparison. That much is not in question and nobody should question it at this point.

Limit's such a short sighted view. Some people actually like the games offered on consoles that for whatever reason don't cross over into that PC realm.

But let's not pretend there aren't other gaming boxes either, running the same games. A box is a box is a box. It's just a means to an end. When the HDMI cable leaves the box, it does the same thing whether it's a $4000 BF4 PC or an Ouya.

Cool. So all I need is a HDMI cable, and I'm having the same experience?

 

[rdrr gnr]

Man, that PC argument is just terrible.

 

[StevieP]

Limit's such a short sighted view. Some people actually like the games offered on consoles that for whatever reason don't cross over into that PC realm.

I agree. Which is why I also purchase consoles. Plenty of platform exclusives have sold me boxes over the generations. (Edit: this thread, and other power comparison console war discussions like it - such as DF articles - are all about multiplat comparisons of the same games).

Cool. So all I need is a HDMI cable, and I'm having the same experience?

For the most part, yes. Whether you click on a game in Windows 8-Xbone version with the A button or click on a game in Steam with the A button, it's usually going to be the same game. But I digress. We can go back to discussing console wars as per the OP.

 

[Doc Evils]

Man MS must in panic mode right now (as if it wasn't right before lol).

Now that this has reached mainstream gaming news I wonder how many people will be cancelling their Xbone pre-orders realising the console is truly xboned! lol

Is this thread open for everybody or is it only for Technical Fellows?

This thread is one big xbone gangbang, all are welcome!

 

[SwiftDeath]

We're enthusiasts on this forum so we compare enthusiast hardware. Not grandma's internet browser. Obviously. However being a modular setup, you can spend whatever you'd like and cater your gaming to your needs obviously. There's no need to go into a "what do I spend" debate because there are other threads for that. This one's comparing multiplatform performance. On enthusiast hardware, there really isn't a contest.

The point of the matter is we are not arguing the best multiplats in general but the best mutliplats on consoles

Whether every single poster added the qualifier "on consoles" is irrelevant and unnecessary as the article does not discuss the PC at all.

I for instance actually agree with some of the points you made previously

Consoles are PCs, I'm sorry they are

BUT they are standardized PCs which is the major difference between Pcs and consoles

Of course nonstandard PC's are going to offer better performance potentially

We're moving into the best bang for your buck territory here and I think that's going to not end well

Here's my response hours ago to Horps original post that started this

Consoles are seen as good value for the money to a lot of people

Who says PS4 is more powerful than a high-end PC?

Or any of the other statements you make?

PS4 is a PC, it just IS

So of course there's going to be plenty of PC's and configs that will offer more power

I fully agree that anyone denying that is mistaken but I haven't seen it yet

So for those of us who want to game on consoles we want to know which CONSOLE is better value for money, that's it

EVEN though we are fully aware that you can have some insane PC and crank the graphics up to 11

That's great but I want to know which CONSOLE is better for me just like you should want to know what PC Graphics card is better for you

 

[Freshmaker]

For the most part, yes. Whether you click on a game in Windows 8-Xbone version with the A button or click on a game in Steam with the A button, it's usually going to be the same game. But I digress. We can go back to discussing console wars as per the OP.

*Sells all gaming systems and PC's for a Blu Ray player with HDMI*

 

[ravenlord]

Which developer said those Edge ?
One developer ? Yeah another dev said that ESRAM is perfect...Believe it or not

 

[Skeff]

Which developer said those Edge ?
One developer ? Yeah another dev said that ESRAM is perfect...Believe it or not

it's not one developer...Read the Article. Though where did you hear ESRAM is perfect, because I haven't heard that yet, and I would be rather doubtful of it with the Toolsets the developers have had.

 

[kitch9]

What makes you so sure?

Because writing drivers for a complex chip you designed yourself is hard.

Writing drivers for a chip that you didn't design and have no expertise in will be fucking impossible.

Amd have been doing it for years and years and there's still guys like you whining it's not good enough.

 

[StevieP]

The point of the matter is we are not arguing the best multiplats in general but the best mutliplats on consoles

Consoles are PCs, I'm sorry they are

Exactly right. And, conversely, exactly my point.

We're moving into the best bang for your buck territory here and I think that's going to not end well

I agree. No need to discuss that. That's a different thread.

*Sells all gaming systems and PC's for a Blu Ray player with HDMI*

You misunderstood. Gaming devices that play the same games are offering you the same experience to varying degrees via the same HDMI cable. Blu ray players aren't rendering Call of Duty Ghosts. But we can certainly clarify that if you have the hardware for it, some CoD ghosts versions are better than others. Same goes for Asscreed, BF4, etc etc. Those can be directly compared because they're playing the same game. There is no imaginary line in the sand separating a gaming PC built by sony or a gaming PC built by you when its playing the same thing. That has been my personal disconnect reading this thread and others like it. (Edit: and I apologize for bringing it up again via my response to an earlier comment, judging by some of the responses directed at me that are similar to drive-bys. It's clear that this thread is more of the "console wars" type and that I should refrain from posting responses to my responses further).

 

[Anonumos]

You don't think it will be that big because of launch window games?

K.

Have you looked at the differences between the two GPUs? They're not small. At all.

First off, calm down. There's no need to come at me like that.

Secondly, my reasoning is that og Xbox was about 200-300% more powerfull than the PS2 (someone correct me if I'm wrong). The ps4 is roughly 50% more powerfull, so the gap cannot be as big as og Xbox-PS2.

I think you need to go and actually see what the specs between Xbox and PS2 were before saying stuff like that and trying to belittle people. If there really WAS an Xbox/PS2 gape, it would be apparent even with launch titles. I'm pretty sure it was for Xbox and PS2. Like I said, I think the gap will be closer to Xbox/GC

 

[Lord Error]

We're enthusiasts on this forum so we compare enthusiast hardware.

That's true, but it does get little tiresome that some people seemingly won't accept that most of the people despite being enthusiasts are not rich enough, or simply can't justify spending on tons of different hardware on their games. So, if you care about console exclusives at all, or some Japanese games that won't come to PC, it's not like you have any other option but to buy that (those) consoles. So then, if you don't want to spend more money, that's it for you - if the multiplatforms are good enough for your blood on that console, that's great. If you want them to look even better, then spend even more money on PC. However, IMO, for PC to make most sense to be used for multiplatforms, you have to use hardware that's significantly more powerful and expensive than that of new consoles. Otherwise, you should only bother if you care about some of the PC-exclusive hardware demanding games. If not, any laptop can play various pc exclusive indie games.

 

[SwiftDeath]

Exactly right. And, conversely, exactly my point.

Ugh your a tad obnoxious but fine I'll reword to clarify

This is a discussion about the best multiplats on consoles, not on non-standardized pcs

Every console is a PC but not every PC is a console

Consoles are standardized PCs

PCs as you are referring to are non-standardized and therefore not part of the current argument

I fully believe though that any comparison of games (be it DF or someone else) should include PC comparisons as well but those comparisons mean nothing to me for the most part as I only care if my console experience is the best possible

And thus we are talking about the best multiplats on consoles

 

[10k]

I find it funny how so many people are treating the XB1 to PS4 power difference like its a Wii to PS3. The XB1 is still a beast.

 

[Rooster]

its ALU (Arithmetic Logic Unit) is around 50 per cent faster

Interested to know the reasons for this. As far as we know the Jaguar cores in Xbox One are running at a higher clockspeed than the PS4 Jaguar cores so I would expect the Xbox to have the speed advantage in this case.

It doesn't make sense for Sony to have modified their Jaguar cores without talking about it as they have been quite open about their GPU modifications. I don't know why they would talk about one and not the other.

As far as I know Microsoft haven't modified the Jaguar cores either.

Could be Microsoft are having problems getting their memory system to work properly? DDR3 vs GDDR5 wouldn't explain this, RAM speed doesn't have a significant impact on CPU performance past a certain point and the Xbox One DDR3 is way past that point.

-edit-

It seems the GPU also has ALU parts, which I guess is what was being talked about. Ambiguous quotes are fun.

 

[RedRooster]

If the PS4 outsells the Xbone like most expect, there's nothing Microsoft can do except throw money at the issue. It's the same position Sony were in last gen when they were getting so many shitty ports. What's the worst you can do if you're already behind? Block a game from coming out on your system and potentially drop even further behind?

That's a good point. When you put it that way, in a round about way I actually kind of hope MS gets served the first year. That'll hopefully make them more hungry to throw money at the problem via free XBL games, blowing the dust off dead franchises(like some of the first party sports they killed) and stuff, the same way Sony had to. I want THAT stuff too!

 

[Freshmaker]

You misunderstood. Gaming devices that play the same games are offering you the same experience to varying degrees via the same HDMI cable. Blu ray players aren't rendering Call of Duty Ghosts.

They can run games. Good enough.

 

[Brashnir]

I honeslty doubt it'll be that big. I think it'll be more like GC to og Xbox, judging from the stuff we've seen like Ryse/Forza and Infamous/KZ.

The difference is pretty much exactly GC -> Wii.

 

[Syphon Filter]

Because the most powerful console always has the best games and outsells the competition....Oh wait that never happens.

To be fair this is a different situation. Sony has more first party support and are stronger worldwide. This may very well be the first time the most powerful system wins in both categories since SNES.

 

[bankster]

I feel like I played games looking like this years ago on my PC.

Post your PC specs from few years ago.

 

[TheBioLover]

PC elitest's "talent" at shitting up a thread never fails to astonish me.

 

[N.Domixis]

My roommate is your typical bro dude who owns two 360s and plays call of duty. He sold his ps3 because he didn't play it. Yet, he told me that he is buying the ps4 because he heard it was more powerful and cheaper. He told me this 2 days ago. It is starting to leak into the mainstream and microsoft is trying to stop it by lying. Casuals know which one is cheaper, so if they start hearing the ps4 is much more powerful, they will more than likely be swayed towards a ps4.

 

[KingFire]

My roommate is your typical bro dude who owns two 360s and plays call of duty. He sold his ps3 because he didn't play it. Yet, he told me that he is buying the ps4 because he heard it was more powerful and cheaper. He told me this 2 days ago. It is starting to leak into the mainstream and microsoft is trying to stop it by lying. Casuals know which one is cheaper, so if they start hearing the ps4 is much more powerful, they will more than likely be swayed towards a ps4.

The pre-orders speak volumes.

 

[Doc Evils]

My roommate is your typical bro dude who owns two 360s and plays call of duty. He sold his ps3 because he didn't play it. Yet, he told me that he is buying the ps4 because he heard it was more powerful and cheaper. He told me this 2 days ago. It is starting to leak into the mainstream and microsoft is trying to stop it by lying. Casuals know which one is cheaper, so if they start hearing the ps4 is much more powerful, they will more than likely be swayed towards a ps4.

 

[KAL2006]

My roommate is your typical bro dude who owns two 360s and plays call of duty. He sold his ps3 because he didn't play it. Yet, he told me that he is buying the ps4 because he heard it was more powerful and cheaper. He told me this 2 days ago. It is starting to leak into the mainstream and microsoft is trying to stop it by lying. Casuals know which one is cheaper, so if they start hearing the ps4 is much more powerful, they will more than likely be swayed towards a ps4.

In this day and age, people are more informed, thanks to things like social media and better coverage and videos. I don't think MS can trick the consumers, no doubt PS4 being cheaper and more powerful will spread to casual consumers.

 

[Latvian Hitman]

First off, calm down. There's no need to come at me like that.

Secondly, my reasoning is that og Xbox was about 200-300% more powerfull than the PS2 (someone correct me if I'm wrong). The ps4 is roughly 50% more powerfull, so the gap cannot be as big as og Xbox-PS2.

I think you need to go and actually see what the specs between Xbox and PS2 were before saying stuff like that and trying to belittle people. If there really WAS an Xbox/PS2 gape, it would be apparent even with launch titles. I'm pretty sure it was for Xbox and PS2. Like I said, I think the gap will be closer to Xbox/GC

I'm totally calm- there was zero yelling in my previous post.

Also- I'm not shouting from the rooftops proclaiming that the difference between PS4 and XB1 is mathematically equal to that of PS2 and XBOX. I was replying to a post that had already made two specific comparisons, (NES vs. PS3 and Xbox vs. PS2) and kept them the same in my response for clarity's sake. EDIT: I think I chose my words poorly, though. My point was that if you noticed the difference between Xbox and PS2, you're going to notice the difference between XB1 and PS4, not that the difference was the same.

As for my reply to you- I wasn't commenting on the CG vs. Xbox part of the comment, I was commenting on the idea of using launch titles to gauge the potential of the new consoles versus looking at the specs.

 

[BleachAndPepsi]

This is one odd article.

Opening paragraph:
"PlayStation 4 is currently around 50 per cent faster than its rival Xbox One. Multiple high-level game development sources have described the difference in performance between the consoles as “significant” and “obvious.”

Closing paragraph:
"The difference between cross platform launch window games will be small, and improved graphics drivers plus the power of the cloud might yet tip the balance in Xbox One’s favour. Nonetheless, at launch, PS4 will be the more capable console."

In that last paragraph, you forgot to bold the part about "launch window games." In time, the gulf between these two platforms' game visuals will likely grow.

My roommate is your typical bro dude who owns two 360s and plays call of duty. He sold his ps3 because he didn't play it. Yet, he told me that he is buying the ps4 because he heard it was more powerful and cheaper. He told me this 2 days ago. It is starting to leak into the mainstream and microsoft is trying to stop it by lying. Casuals know which one is cheaper, so if they start hearing the ps4 is much more powerful, they will more than likely be swayed towards a ps4.

Oh yeah? Well my roommate

Spoiler

(my wife)

thinks Xbone is da beast and wins!

Spoiler

Actually, she wishes I'd stop playing video games and thinks they're a waste of time and money

 

[Cyborg]

Is the rumor about the second gpu in xbone true?

 

[BleachAndPepsi]

Is the rumor about the second gpu in xbone true?

Mr. Penello already shot that down in a Twitter post and discussed it more here.

 

[Cyborg]

Mr. Penello already shot that down in a Twitter post and discussed it more here.

Who is he? Link please?

 

[bankster]

I think we have some real double standards posters in this thread. I'm talking about some (alot) of the PS4 fans.

1. When there is a discussion on whether certain aspects of quality matter; such as IQ, framerate and resolution:
If it's a XboxOne vs PS4 discussion it's extremely important and a major bonus for the PS4 over the X1.
When the discussion is between PS4 and PC it's all about the gameplay and who cares about some aliasing, upscaled 720p or 30 instead of 60 fps when you are playing a game.

2. When there is a discussion on whether PS4/X1 hardware is much like a PC or very specialized (secret saucy).
If it's a X1 vs PS4 discussion the hardware in both is exactly like PC:s, and therefore can be compared straight up, thus the PS4 wins cause it has more FLOPS.
If it's a PS4 vs PC discussion the GDDR, the hUMA, the superchargyness makes a PS4 way different from a PC and can't possibly be compared with FLOPS.

3. When there is a discussion whether power really matters
X1 vs PS4: of course power matters, it gives developers more possibilities and makes IQ/framerate better.
PS4 vs PC: nah, it's all about the games. Who cares about 1080p@60fps or upcoming 4k resolutions; it's all in the games.

Also; in a thread about comparing the power between 2 gaming machines, isn't it weird that when someone brings up the third real competitor (the PC) when talking about multiplatform games he is answered with "Not this shit again, GTFO"?

Do you post this in every PC gaming thread ever? Why should any PC gamer play any game ever, if he/she doesn't have the best gaming rig ever? Should people who have the best gaming PC talk down to people with lesser gaming PCs? Is PC gaming just about the highest resolution and the best texture resolution you can get, no matter the cost? Does cost come into calculation when making decisions about your hobby? Does gameplay matter if you run you can Crysis 3 maxed out 100fps?

 

[Warm Machine]

End of the day it is nice art in, nice art out. What developers made happen on a 360 and PS3 this last gen was nothing short of incredible. I have no concerns about the future for either next gen console.

 

[BleachAndPepsi]

It sucks that I have to pre-order a PS4 to get this achievement now. Thanks a lot Sony

I wonder if that's the kind of thing that can bring about a class action lawsuit. I mean, it's verifiably not the most powerful console, nor will it be at any point of its commercial existence.

 

[recklesscognition]

I only care if I get the most powerful console and there is an actual difference that makes multi-plat games worse for my console because the competitor wasn't strong or fast enough. I don't think this difference is going to be that big where games could have so much better stuff on one vs the other though.

That being said, I'd buy the more powerful console 9 times out of 10.

 

[BleachAndPepsi]

Who is he? Link please?

He's the product planning lead on Xbone. Here's his Twitter: https://mobile.twitter.com/albertpenello/tweets

Check September 9, around 7pm. I would direct link but I'm on mobile.

 

[Row]

The idea of artificial 3rd party parity is incredibly depressing, but thankfully Sony has a decent amount of 1st/2nd party studios

 

[Conciliator]

Proof is in the pudding. PS3 was supposed to make 360 look like Xbox 1.5.

We all know how that turned out

Yep. I really think when all is said and done, the difference will be significant, but not large by any stretch. However, as always the product is the evidence. If Sony is able to show over and over that their multiplats have significantly higher fidelity and speed, that will be a factor when I choose what console to buy first next year.

 

[Bundy]

Is the rumor about the second gpu in xbone true?

No! ---> *click*

 

[George Claw M.D.]

"Density"

How does it work?

Spoiler

;P

 

[ThisWreckage]

I don't think you'll have to worry about parity and PS4 mutliplatform games being gimped because the PS4 will easily outsell the Xbox One worldwide. It won't even be close.

Sony's first party titles from their tier 1 devs will make Xbox One games look outdated.

 

[Outtrigger888]

Sony's first party titles from their tier 1 devs will make Xbox One games look outdated.

That's why I'm going ps4 and wii u only. Both have a strong first party, Microsoft seriously fucked up all there studios and have nothing really.

 

[Eric the Red]

Despite the power difference, it'll only become an issue if PS4 sells a significant amount more than X1. Only then will we start seeing a performance gap as devs start using PS4 as the lead platform.

 

[Omnistalgic]

So...from all this spec talk on GAF, is it safe to say that PS4's first party teams will develop games that show the differences in strength level to be comparable to say Xbox-PS2?

Because anything else, and I don't think people will notice that much. People did notice titles like God of War or Uncharted looking really amazing, but 360 still stomped PS3 in the U.S...