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[Dan Yo]

I'm always surprised at how clueless MS has been these last few years. i can't imagine why you'd spend so much money on a spectacle like E3 and not even try to surprise your audience with something.

The last time they "got" it was when they pretended like that guy from Square was leaving the stage and then he came back to give one more announcement before leaving the stage. Stuff like that is what made E3. Stuff like that is what got people talking about your product after the show. Now they just don't have a clue. I haven't been excited about a MS conference since the Peter Moore era and immediately following it. Everything since then has just been a snooze and for some reason i expect them to learn every year.

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and just assume that all of the new, exciting, and innovative software is being saved for the new gen E3 and theyre just playing it safe on the last year of current gen.

At least I hope so. Otherwise MS is in some serious trouble next generation.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Huh, it seems to line up in my mind.... almost as if they were both following a formula to reach the largest audience....

Flagship AAA Games
SONY: Last of Us
MS: Halo 4

Follow-ups to major franchises
SONY: GOW Ascension
MS: GOW Judgment

Party Games
SONY: Battle Royal
MS: Dance Central 3

Experimental games
SONY: Beyond
MS: Fable Journey

Non gaming features
SONY: Wonderbook
MS: Sports

Integration
SONY: Playstation Mobile
MS: Smart Glass

Exclusive DLC
SONY: Assassin's Creed 3
MS: COD, Splinter Cell, TR

This. I dont know where people are saying one is better than the other. They seem to be aiming towards the same things. Sony conference gave me deja vu of microsofts. Both deja vu of last years and ashamedly so last years for both was better.

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

I'm always surprised at how clueless MS has been these last few years. i can't imagine why you'd spend so much money on a spectacle like E3 and not even try to surprise your audience with something.

The last time they "got" it was when they pretended like that guy from Square was leaving the stage and then he came back to give one more announcement before leaving the stage. Stuff like that is what made E3. Stuff like that is what got people talking about your product after the show. Now they just don't have a clue. I haven't been excited about a MS conference since the Peter Moore era and immediately following it. Everything since then has just been a snooze and for some reason i expect them to learn every year.

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and just assume that all of the new, exciting, and innovative software is being saved for the new gen E3 and theyre just playing it safe on the last year of current gen.

At least I hope so. Otherwise MS is in some serious trouble next generation.

I don't understand posts like this.

From a personal perspective, I can understand not liking MS's direction. But these last couple of years from a sales perspective have been extremely impressive for MS.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

I don't understand posts like this.

From a personal perspective, I can understand not liking MS's direction. But these last couple of years from a sales perspective have been extremely impressive for MS.

There are people here on GAF (and elsewhere in the community, obviously) who think consoles are still primarily used by people like them, people who value new core IPs above anything else, people who believe E3 is still the same nerd-centric show that it was a decade ago.

 

[shinnn]

"Author: Edge Staff"

really?

 

[bangai-o]

There are people here on GAF (and elsewhere in the community, obviously) who think consoles are still primarily used by people like them, people who value new core IPs above anything else, people who believe E3 is still the same nerd-centric show that it was a decade ago.

micorsoft just doesnt get it. this is not how you make money.

 

[Deadly Joker]

There are people here on GAF (and elsewhere in the community, obviously) who think consoles are still primarily used by people like them, people who value new core IPs above anything else, people who believe E3 is still the same nerd-centric show that it was a decade ago.

That's exactly why you see so many people on GAF building new gaming PC's.

Including me.

 

[CLEEK]

"Author: Edge Staff"

really?

Who else would have written it? The Pope?

 

[Cake Boss]

There are people here on GAF (and elsewhere in the community, obviously) who think consoles are still primarily used by people like them, people who value new core IPs above anything else, people who believe E3 is still the same nerd-centric show that it was a decade ago.

Same shit was said after that Nintendo E3 conference.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

micorsoft just doesnt get it. this is not how you make money.

Considering how gaming is in a large part based on escapism and wish fulfillment, it's not that surprising that a lot of its traditional audience is unwilling to face the reality.

 

[clav]

micorsoft just doesnt get it. this is not how you make money.

Winning conferences makes money when actually the conferences are just simply video game ads spanned across a couple hours? I thought GAF hates ads.

GAF, never change.

 

[Desty]

I agree it was a lame conference but that's ok. They should be devoting all the other resources towards Xbox 720 next year. I'll take a bad MS conference now for a huge reveal next year. Also, the signage was all 'Xbox' and not 'Xbox 360' which I think is a hint as well.

The worst part for me was the audio with kinect for choosing movies by genre. You had to say 'bing' every time. Like 'bing sci-fi' and 'bing action'. I got sick of hearing bing after just the 3 examples.

 

[bangai-o]

That's exactly why you see so many people on GAF building new gaming PC's.

Including me.

mircosoft just doesnt get it. selling windows is not how you make money!

 

[clav]

mircosoft just doesnt get it. selling windows is not how you make money!

Ok, now you're just trolling.

 

[Speevy]

There are people here on GAF (and elsewhere in the community, obviously) who think consoles are still primarily used by people like them, people who value new core IPs above anything else, people who believe E3 is still the same nerd-centric show that it was a decade ago.

Maybe they just believe game design isn't just a word used to describe the thing that must accommodate some ungainly interface.

Perhaps they also feel that separating gamers into ultra-violent shooter fans and grandmas isn't conducive to good library building.

 

[Dan Yo]

I don't understand posts like this.

From a personal perspective, I can understand not liking MS's direction. But these last couple of years from a sales perspective have been extremely impressive for MS.

You can still sell consoles and Kinect peripherals to casuals while also understanding how to excite the enthusiast crowd at a venue like E3.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Maybe they just believe game design isn't just a word used to describe the thing that must accommodate some ungainly interface.

Perhaps they also feel that separating gamers into ultra-violent shooter fans and grandmas isn't conducive to good library building.

I have no idea what you're talking about. That is, I do understand what you're talking about, but I have no clue how it relates to what we saw yesterday.

 

[bangai-o]

There are people here on GAF (and elsewhere in the community, obviously) who think consoles are still primarily used by people like them, people who value new core IPs above anything else, people who believe E3 is still the same nerd-centric show that it was a decade ago.

ive found it hard it beleve even gaf values new IPs. Unless it holds that magic title of "exclusive," gaf will just find some reason to complain about it and not buyit because mega budget sequal comes first.

 

[NemesisPrime]

mircosoft just doesnt get it. selling windows is not how you make money!

Sarcasm surely.

 

[Speevy]

I have no idea what you're talking about. That is, I do understand what you're talking about, but I have no clue how it relates to what we saw yesterday.

I'm specifically replying to you.

New core IPs are the best way to drive innovation because you can stray from established genre conventions (and not alienate fans), while trying a number of different ideas (because core games are more complex than casual games).

The problem is that most of these companies believe "core games" are supposed to be gritty action titles in which some dude walks around with an aiming reticule and blasts a hole through anything that moves, all the while seeing action movie set pieces. If something isn't that, it's meant for casual audiences.

I don't think people who want games to have diversity AND budgets are nerds. People who want to see new IPs just want to see game design flourish, as it has historically.

Hooking yourself to these devices represents a dead-end, a stop-gap before you're interfaced with something else.

I disagree with the notion that new core IPs are an unrealistic, "nerd's" expectation. It is vital.

 

[Durante]

ive found it hard it beleve even gaf values new IPs. Unless it holds that magic title of "exclusive," gaf will just find some reason to complain about it and not buyit because mega budget sequal comes first.

Have you seen the Watch_Dogs thread?

 

[Boss Man]

Huh, it seems to line up in my mind.... almost as if they were both following a formula to reach the largest audience....

Flagship AAA Games
SONY: Last of Us
MS: Halo 4

Follow-ups to major franchises
SONY: GOW Ascension
MS: GOW Judgment

Party Games
SONY: Battle Royal
MS: Dance Central 3

Experimental games
SONY: Beyond
MS: Fable Journey

Non gaming features
SONY: Wonderbook
MS: Sports

Integration
SONY: Playstation Mobile
MS: Smart Glass

Exclusive DLC
SONY: Assassin's Creed 3
MS: COD, Splinter Cell, TR

Eh, the only things that really line up are Playstation Mobile/Vita Controller = Smart Glass and God of War = Gears of War.

Then you have to consider how much time was spent on each of those. Gears of War was a 20 second FMV, God of War was a huge gameplay demonstration. It actually makes more since to lump God of War with Halo, but then you have a big gap. Smart Glass felt like Microsoft's entire conference.

Sony just spent too much time on Wonderbook. If you remove Wonderbook entirely, Sony actually had a good conference. Alas, money was spent, and J.K. Rowling was hired, so we have suffered.

 

[clav]

Sony also didn't spend most of their conference on Playstation Mobile, but they did spend too much time on Wonderbook.

Playstation Mobile is DOA, so there is not much to say about it.

Microsoft has Android, iOS, and Windows Phone/OS to back their Xbox companion portable platform up, so SmartGlass does have a future.

Sony only has Android and does not know how to get its act together to make integration as comparable to Microsoft's. Only HTC and Sony phones? That's a big middle finger to those who buy other Android phones (e.g. Samsung Galaxy SII/III and Nexus, Motorola). Considering that Android tablets have not sold well at all, I don't see Sony's integration going to go well.

 

[Dan Yo]

Eh, I guess if you think Beyond = Fable Journey, Battle Royal = Dance Central, and all of that gameplay footage of God of War = 20 second FMV of Gears of War.

Sony also didn't spend most of their conference on Playstation Mobile, but they did spend too much time on Wonderbook. If you remove Wonderbook entirely, Sony actually had a good conference.

Or that a new, fresh IP like The Last Of Us = Another Halo game for the past decade.

 

[Chiggs]

Outstanding article. PC Gaming is more and more appealing.

Wii U + PC for me.

 

[Vice]

A lot of people who own Xboxs, even hardcore gamers, truly enjoy the non-gaming features of the console. I liked the M$ conference quite a bit. On my Facebook feed, out of those watching live coverage, many were excited about the ESPN stuff and thought the Microsoft Glass, or whatever its called, was cool.

 

[Punchpudding]

Eh, the only things that really line up are Playstation Mobile/Vita Controller = Smart Glass and God of War = Gears of War.

Then you have to consider how much time was spent on each of those. Gears of War was a 20 second FMV, God of War was a huge gameplay demonstration. It actually makes more since to lump God of War with Halo, but then you have a big gap. Smart Glass felt like Microsoft's entire conference.

Sony just spent too much time on Wonderbook. If you remove Wonderbook entirely, Sony actually had a good conference. Alas, money was spent, and J.K. Rowling was hired, so we have suffered.

So what you're saying is that if I try to "feel" the way you feel and select specific things to remember and other things to forget, then Sony's conference becomes much better? I can't say I would disagree with that. But how you feel and how you want to see things doesn't mean that each company isn't trying to approach the widest audience they can.

 

[Boss Man]

So what you're saying is that if I try to feel the way you feel and select specific things to remember and other things to forget, then Sony's conference becomes much better? I can't say I would disagree with that. But how you feel and how you want to see things doesn't mean that each company isn't trying to approach the widest audience they can.

No, I'm saying that you arbitrarily lumped things together in a way that makes it seem like the two conferences were the same when they weren't at all. Of course both companies are trying to reach a wider audience- all the time. The thread is about an EDGE article saying how bad Microsoft's conference was, and you lumped things together like God of War: Ascension (a huge gameplay demonstration) and Gears of War: Judgement (a 20 second FMV video) to insinuate that the two conferences were similar.

Not to mention some things, like Beyond and Fable Journey, just don't make any sense being in the same category to begin with. You also missed some important titles, like Forza. E3 conferences also put a lot of value on new IP's and new content in general, which is something that's going totally unnoticed.


What you really have is a list that proves that both companies are covering all of their bases, it doesn't say much of anything about the conferences.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

New core IPs are the best way to drive innovation because you can stray from established genre conventions (and not alienate fans), while trying a number of different ideas (because core games are more complex than casual games).

I agree that it's the best way to drive innovation within the core segment. Spreading out to casual, social, non-game etc. can also be innovating, and in more significant and far-reaching ways than just catering to the relatively small core gaming audience.

The problem is that most of these companies believe "core games" are supposed to be gritty action titles in which some dude walks around with an aiming reticule and blasts a hole through anything that moves, all the while seeing action movie set pieces. If something isn't that, it's meant for casual audiences.

I don't think that's true, we're still seeing a lot of games that fit between those two extremes. Not that I wouldn't want to see even more of them... (And not that I have anything against more casual games; I'm primarily a core gamer, but I play and enjoy all sorts of experiences. Just because something is more approachable and streamlined - plenty of classic games are the same - doesn't mean it can't be a lot of fun.)

Hooking yourself to these devices represents a dead-end, a stop-gap before you're interfaced with something else.

I don't understand the reasoning behind this, at all (I presume you're talking about devices like Kinect, tablets and so on). It's just an interface that can equally be applied to deeper and more casual experiences. The ways we interact with our entertainment have been evolving since the dawn of gaming - you know, that time before we cared about stupid distinctions between core and casual. Some interfaces have been abandoned (the Power Glove, for instance), some haven't. Only time will tell which paradigms people are experimenting with today stick around, and which disappear or morph into something slightly different.

I disagree with the notion that new core IPs are an unrealistic, "nerd's" expectation. It is vital.

At this point in the generation? Each one you get is an exception to what you should realistically be expecting. Starting with the next year, though (or even this year, in Nintendo's case), you should expect and demand a lot more of them.

 

[Punchpudding]

No, I'm saying that you arbitrarily lumped things together in a way that makes it seem like the two conferences were the same when they weren't at all. Of course both companies are trying to reach a wider audience- all the time.

I lumped things according to headings I thought were relevant and to show that there are similarities to how companies present themselves. It's up to the individual to feel that Last of Us is better than Halo (or vice versa) but it seems likely that these are the flagship games for each respective company going forward (and similarly for each 'type' of game they are presenting)...

You can debate which hockey player is better but it's pretty well accepted that you'll have forwards, defense, and a goalie.

 

[Boss Man]

I lumped things according to headings I thought were relevant and to show that there are similarities to how companies present themselves. It's up to the individual to feel that Last of Us is better than Halo (or vice versa) but it seems likely that these are the flagship games for each respective company going forward (and similarly for each 'type' of game they are presenting)...

You can debate which hockey player is better but it's pretty well accepted that you'll have forwards, defense, and a goalie.

Sure, but when your goalie is only playing for one period you're probably going to lose regardless of whose is better.

 

[Ledsen]

I dunno...I actually tend to enjoy Microsoft's conferences. Sure, there aren't always very many megatons, but one thing Microsoft does better than their competition is give a general and enticing view of the range of products and services coming to their system.

...to the US and nowhere else. The whole world is watching E3, yet they dedicate half the conference to US-exclusive services.

 

[Punchpudding]

Sure, but when your goalie is only playing for one period you're probably going to lose regardless of whose is better.

IMO it's a little early to say how things will play out and who is going to win or lose (although that seems to be GAF's favourite topic)... just that they are playing a similar game.

 

[AniHawk]

i don't get the hate.

it wasn't good, but they had a variety of stuff. halo 4 looks interesting (and despite it being halo and kinda like metroid prime in ways, it looks like the most interesting halo so far to me). i don't care for gears, or fable, or their most of their main stuff (but forza being more burnout is kinda cool for me), however they did show off new entries to their biggest franchises, and for a lot of other companies, especially nintendo (mario! zelda! metroid!) that would be enough.

smart glass is interesting. the xbox voice stuff would be neat if it cost way less than the price of a kinect. but they're cool future-ish features. and i know people who are really into espn stuff and feel this is gonna be super awesome.

codblops ii ran too long and i thought it was the most boring part of the conference. other than that, it was pretty standard fare.

also, what did people expect? this was what microsoft wanted when they joined the industry. what the xbox 360's future looks like now is what they always wanted from it.

 

[davepoobond]

i cant help but think that the xbox360 was a bait and switch and it came into full form with this E3.

it might mostly be a cause of the "end of the generation" but it is seemingly at the "upturn" of iOS/Android gaming and how they may be taking away users from consoles, so xbox has to validate its existence by showing it can do all of those other non-game things.

but really what it is is getting a microsoft product next to that tv screen. if it wasnt gonna be windows, it'll be "xbox." For some reason Xbox is like a pseudo mobile OS all of a sudden.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

i cant help but think that the xbox360 was a bait and switch and it came into full form with this E3.

It's a bait and switch only if you're incredibly shortsighted. It was patently obvious where both Sony and Microsoft were heading after their very first current gen machine presentations (and in Sony's case, much earlier, with PS2 and even PS1). They never tried to hide that.

 

[Goodacre0081]

There are people here on GAF (and elsewhere in the community, obviously) who think consoles are still primarily used by people like them, people who value new core IPs above anything else, people who believe E3 is still the same nerd-centric show that it was a decade ago.

E3 should be about the hard core games and big announcements. im sick of celebrity appearances and other shit I couldn't care less about. I'm pretty sure the casual crowd has no idea what E3 is and they're not watching the show to get early christmas gift ideas

at this point its getting really hard for MS to justify putting on a show when we only get a few first party trailers and the rest is taken up by things that don't belong in their presser. third party games, connectivity apps, sports apps, browser and celebrity performances that eat up time and money. MS had the first conference of E3 and it was deemed the worst one this year before the curtain went down

 

[Boss Man]

IMO it's a little early to say how things will play out and who is going to win or lose (although that seems to be GAF's favourite topic)... just that they are playing a similar game.

Again, the topic is the conference, and 'losing' came from your hockey metaphor.

I get what you're saying though, and I think you're right. I think Microsoft is focusing more of Xbox's attention to areas that gamers don't particularly appreciate, though.

 

[surly]

The whole world is watching E3, yet they dedicate half the conference to US-exclusive services.

Did you actually watch the conference?

In the media section, they specifically mentioned expanding to other countries and even showed off what it would be like if you were using a console in Mexico (to demonstrate the voice search capabilities when not speaking English). They mentioned that there would be 35 new services added to the 360's apps list over the next year (21 of which are available to non-US countries BTW) and they spent 4 minutes showing off a couple of the sports ones: -

NHL GameCenter (Available worldwide, apart from Denmark, Finland, Norway, Sweden)
NBA Game Time (US)/NBA League Pass (outside of the US)
ESPN (US only)

When Jack Tretton announced those free games for PSN+ subscribers, he said that they were available in the US only, but I suppose that's different right?

 

[War Peaceman]

It was a terrible show, mind-numbingly boring. Not disastrous, just dull.

That said, they did show a fair chunk of games. But it was largely uninspiring.

Halo 4 looked interesting, I don't like the series, but it was distinctive and varied, relative to the rest of the stuff demonstrated.

Splinter Cell didn't show well, plus I hate how far it has strayed from its stealth origins. Change is good, but not when it is becoming another Ghost Recon-esque experience.

EA Sports don't deserve talking about. They may be good or bad, but they just are. EA have their own conference anyway. These games tend to sell better on Xbox anyway, so I feel like MS could afford to ignore them a bit, but I can't actively blame them for it either.

Fable looks really bad.

Gears of War was nothing new. Or at least, the trailer gave me no reason to care. It could, probably will, be a decent iteration of the series.

Forza sounds like it is trying something new, which is admirable, but they demonstrated that terribly.

Tomb Raider looked great last year. This year it looked like a sometime poorly animated Uncharted. The bow 3rd person shooting was a bit silly but ok. The finisher-style move just seemed crude and overly violent. Really out of character for the series, even in a reboot. The stream section was terrible.

RE6 was incredibly disappointing. You could have swapped in any old character over Leon and it would not have looked out of place. I liked RE5 but this just looked like an action movie.

COD was as expected.

The Non-game stuff in the middle was poor. All these silly Xbox services will probably not be usable where I am. Also, realistically are people going to use another, different music service?

Smart Glass may be a neat technical feat. It could be, if it works. However it is almost completely worthless for a vast amount of the population. For most people, it really won't make any substantive difference. It is classic Silicon-Valley impractical thinking. Streaming services (that I've used), tend to sync where you've gotten up to across devices anyway, which would be the main benefit. It won't be good for games because developers won't use it, unlike the Wii U where every console owner will have the gamepad. Neat idea, limited use.

Nike sounds well done but I think the fitness ship has sailed. This will be quietly forgotten.

The XBLA games were a waste of time. They could have done well by focusing on this area, but failed. Lococycle and Matter were useless teasers, Wreckateer looks uninspired and Ascend (?) made me think of Xbox launch games.

Overall, it was just uninspiring. Of the many repeated franchises, only Halo demonstrated an real desire to be experimental. They showed other games poorly (Forza) and wasted too much time on unimportant things. It was a terribly paced show.

I think it could have made a decent hour long presentation. Not a brilliant one, but a competent and less-drab one.

 

[Ledsen]

Did you actually watch the conference?

In the media section, they specifically mentioned expanding to other countries and even showed off what it would be like if you were using a console in Mexico (to demonstrate the voice search capabilities when not speaking English). They mentioned that there would be 35 new services added to the 360's apps list over the next year (21 of which are available to non-US countries BTW) and they spent 4 minutes showing off a couple of the sports ones: -

NHL GameCenter (Available worldwide, apart from Denmark, Finland, Norway, Sweden)
NBA Game Time (US)/NBA League Pass (outside of the US)
ESPN (US only)

When Jack Tretton announced those free games for PSN+ subscribers, he said that they were available in the US only, but I suppose that's different right?

I didn't watch the Sony conference since I don't own a PS3 (and don't plan to), so I have no idea what they said. I'm Swedish btw. We can't use any of the most interesting 360 services, like Netflix. For us, the 360 is a gaming machine and nothing else, yet MS seems to think it's some kind of entertainment hub. And it might be, for some countries. Good for them I suppose. We're getting pretty used to being marginalized and ignored in Europe, which seems to me like a pretty big misstep by MS. If they want the Xbox to be more than a gaming machine for the average person, they should've focused on getting similar services worldwide as soon as possible.

 

[I-hate-u]

In regards to Sony, why wasn't a demo like wonderbook saved for CES? This is not the place for a demo like this especially when it was that long.

 

[CrunchinJelly]

In regards to Sony, why wasn't a demo like wonderbook saved for CES? This is not the place for a demo like this especially when it was that long.

because we are at the stage of the generation where the main teams have moved on to next gen, but they needed something to fill the time.

they didn't have vita software to show, so they filled the time with wonderbook.

 

[Oblivion]

Whoa, Edge online just got a whole lot....

*puts on sunglasses*

edgier.

 

[GrandHarrier]

Are we going to get an equally scathing review of Sony's conference, or will they escape any negativity despite having a similarly uninspired event?

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

I had 2 problems with MS conference. Almost no variety in games, and Usher. South Park was the best part of the show.

 

[Oblivion]

Are we going to get an equally scathing review of Sony's conference, or will they escape any negativity despite having a similarly uninspired event?

Not really a review per se, but I gave it a shot.

 

[Fabrik]

Not really a review per se, but I gave it a shot.

Wow that's brutal.

 

[brotkasten]

I didn't watch the Sony conference since I don't own a PS3 (and don't plan to), so I have no idea what they said. I'm Swedish btw. We can't use any of the most interesting 360 services, like Netflix. For us, the 360 is a gaming machine and nothing else, yet MS seems to think it's some kind of entertainment hub. And it might be, for some countries. Good for them I suppose. We're getting pretty used to being marginalized and ignored in Europe, which seems to me like a pretty big misstep by MS. If they want the Xbox to be more than a gaming machine for the average person, they should've focused on getting similar services worldwide as soon as possible.

I'm not trying to defend Microsoft, but the problem is that getting contracts and agreements for media services is a lot harder in Europe. Especially when you're not Apple. Every country has its own media providers, channels, laws and legislations. Just because you got the license to stream and rent movie/series/sport X in one country, it doesn't mean you can do it in another country, because someone else holds the license for it. It's truly a nightmare and I know some problem who are desperately trying to get those things solved.

But I still agree with you and like I said in the "TV business is dying" thread, it's not my problem to solve and I don't care why it doesn't work. I just want the content.

 

[Fabrik]

i cant help but think that the xbox360 was a bait and switch and it came into full form with this E3.

it might mostly be a cause of the "end of the generation" but it is seemingly at the "upturn" of iOS/Android gaming and how they may be taking away users from consoles, so xbox has to validate its existence by showing it can do all of those other non-game things.

but really what it is is getting a microsoft product next to that tv screen. if it wasnt gonna be windows, it'll be "xbox." For some reason Xbox is like a pseudo mobile OS all of a sudden.

They called it Xbox 360 for a reason you know.