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[Fireblend]

The following players voted for kingkitty according to Never Forever:
CornBurrito
Sorian
cabot
Never Forever
Burbeting
El Topo
bananaspaceprincess
Fireblend
*Splinter

If we assume that those that voted for nin1000 all have a vote and remove them, as well as the dead and myself, the following remain:
CornBurrito
banaspaceprincess
Fireblend

I'm not quite following this logic. That criteria you used for reducing the list seems arbitrary. Where are you going with this?

 

[Omzz]

Edit: wrong thread

 

[El Topo]

And if he couldn't

Cabot, just say first if you can specify more, and then if you know any more

I doubt ouro made anyone voteless. It's like the 2nd worst thing after jesters in mafia. Either someone had a role they could use during the day or cabot's role left him voteless that day

You know what also sucks? RNG roles, yet look and behold, we had one.

 

[CornBurrito]

The following players voted for kingkitty according to Never Forever:
CornBurrito
Sorian
cabot
Never Forever
Burbeting
El Topo
bananaspaceprincess
Fireblend
*Splinter

If we assume that those that voted for nin1000 all have a vote and remove them, as well as the dead and myself, the following remain:
CornBurrito
banaspaceprincess
Fireblend

Why remove yourself from the list? Are we sure the voteless person knows they are voteless?

Also it would be hilarious if banaspaceprincess ended up being the voteless person in her first game.

 

[Ourobolus]

You know what also sucks? RNG roles, yet look and behold, we had one.

you don't know me

 

[El Topo]

I'm not quite following this logic. That criteria you used for reducing the list seems arbitrary. Where are you going with this?

Eh, maybe I'm a bit dumb right now, but let us assume cabot didn't lie and his ability requires that someone is actually leading in the polls, okay? That would mean that nin1000, who had one vote more than cabot, cannot have had the voteless voting for him, as that would've (presumably) tied things.

Thus if we assume the above to be correct, none of them can be the voteless player. If we cross out whoever died, that only leaves a few players.

 

[CornBurrito]

You know what also sucks? RNG roles, yet look and behold, we had one.

It was 2 roles which is probably why each was reduced to a 50% chance. Since the chance of both failing is slim. In fact I imagine the idea was kitty could send a message and see if someone gave indication. If they didn't, then it was likely his cop results were right.

I must admit it would be weird to have a purely negative role like a no vote town in the game.

 

[El Topo]

I would assume the voteless player knows he/she is voteless, Corn.

you don't know me

I've seen Jon Stewart beat an innocent man with a chair. I know enough.

 

[CornBurrito]

I would assume the voteless player knows he/she is voteless, Corn.



I've seen Jon Stewart beat an innocent man with a chair. I know enough.

Yeah just bouncing around ideas.

I think if the voteless person exists, there's more to the role than simply not having a vote.

 

[Fireblend]

I feel like this Cabot macro is going to get some significant use throughout this game.

 

[Ourobolus]

I feel like this Cabot macro is going to get some significant use throughout this game.

I don't know who that Ourubolous guy is. Sounds like a dick, though.

 

[Hyperactivity]

Hmm, ok yes, this makes sense. So in this theory you assume launch attached himself to me in a ploy to make himself look more townie, since he had no reason to defend himself. Now that launch is gone and lone_prodigy has taken his place, you are continuing in this train of thought since its the lead you have.

Well, the problem is, I am town and I have no way to prove if Launch/lone_prodigy are town or not, what I can do is tell you that I have played a few times with launch by now and there has been situations where I have either saved him for been lynched when I defend his playstyle, while he defends me because of my playstyle. In a way we usually are in the same channel when it comes to reads and opponents.

Now, I don´t know if Launch was abusing this fact as to gain my trust or town trust, but when he made that defense of me it was, well, uncalled for, I had very few votes and he decides to call you out more as to inform you, rather to defend me.

In the case of lone_prodigy, I don´t think launch´s actions are a good lead into his role, since he has clearly been played different than launch do.

I have no reason to defend lone_prodigy, but he still hasn´t made something that would make me suspicious of him. But I do find your choice of following a lead into a player that has been replaced to be, well, iffy. l_p is at a clear disadvantage here, and targeting him right now seems like an easy out for a mafia player to get a town role killed, since the new player is more likely to contradict himself with what the player he replaced could have said.

Its a weird situation, since the chance that l_p is actually scum is likely too, but I honestly think he is not suspicious right now, as he has been thrown midgame and needs time to adjust. Lynching him seems like a dick move, so I won´t vote for him right now.

I have to disagree with you on previous game and that just be launch's playstyle. I just got out of cthulhu, where timeaisis used that same argument throughout the game, because he, to my knowledge had been town the previous games. Other players said the same thing. He ended up being cult.

Players that were cult their first time around have played similar coming into other games as town. The way you played before shouldn't excuse or make people suspect you in new games, imo. So no, I'm not taking "that's just launch's playstyle" as answer here

Defending you before you can votes on you would be an ideal time, as before there's any pressure launch can establish the idea that he's linked to you.

Lynching lone_prodigy IS a dick move, I'm fully aware of that, and I feel like a dick for exploring this lead when he just joined the game. But that doesn't absolve him of some of launch's behavior yesterday, which very much felt scummy to me.

I'm not about to call lone_prodigy out for having different feelings about certain players than launch. That's flimsy crappy evidence that doesn't mean anything. But he's not going to be absolved of launch's behavior yesterday entirely.

Me pursuing a lead I think I have isn't the same as me somehow single-handedly lynching L_P. It's pursuing a lead, gathering information. This is the start of the day phase, lone_prodigy has all of it to get accustomed to his surroundings. And I'll wait for him to do so if he has to before answering my suspicions

 

[El Topo]

I think if the voteless person exists, there's more to the role than simply not having a vote.

Obviously. Ourubolous is certainly not going to give out a role that can do nothing. He is evil, but not that evil.

 

[Hyperactivity]

You know what also sucks? RNG roles, yet look and behold, we had one.

Voteless flat out defeats the purpose of mafia. Either the voteless person has a special role, in which case the role still sucks because not having a vote still sucks, or a special condition occurred to make it happen. I'm guessing that the voteless person was either cabot for using his role or somebody had a day time role (like Pm'ing ouro during the daytime) to make someone's vote not count

 

[CornBurrito]

Obviously. Ourubolous is certainly not going to give out a role that can do nothing. He is evil, but not that evil.

I actually could see it being a purely voteless if it's a neutral role that needs to survive to a certain point or something. But anyway that's all I'm gonna say because all we can do is speculate.

 

[SalvaPot]

I have to disagree with you on previous game and that just be launch's playstyle. I just got out of cthulhu, where timeaisis used that same argument throughout the game, because he, to my knowledge had been town the previous games. Other players said the same thing. He ended up being cult.

Players that were cult their first time around have played similar coming into other games as town. The way you played before shouldn't excuse or make people suspect you in new games, imo. So no, I'm not taking "that's just launch's playstyle" as answer here

Defending you before you can votes on you would be an ideal time, as before there's any pressure launch can establish the idea that he's linked to you.

Lynching lone_prodigy IS a dick move, I'm fully aware of that, and I feel like a dick for exploring this lead when he just joined the game. But that doesn't absolve him of some of launch's behavior yesterday, which very much felt scummy to me.

I'm not about to call lone_prodigy out for having different feelings about certain players than launch. That's flimsy crappy evidence that doesn't mean anything. But he's not going to be absolved of launch's behavior yesterday entirely.

Me pursuing a lead I think I have isn't the same as me somehow single-handedly lynching L_P. It's pursuing a lead, gathering information. This is the start of the day phase, lone_prodigy has all of it to get accustomed to his surroundings. And I'll wait for him to do so if he has to before answering my suspicions

Yeah, we both agree that you have to play as town when you are town and also play as town when you are scum, that much is clear, I was just telling why I think launch decided to defend me.

But L_P has no way of knowing why launch acted as he did, its an empty lead, you just can´t make L_P accountable for Launch´s actions because L_P can easily reason that he just doesn´t know what launch wanted to achieve. This is the reason why I find odd that you still decided to go after him, knowing fully that he can just handwave your request and you will have no option but to change your vote or lynch him anyway, with no new information.

l_p is, effectively, a new player, and there is little point in pursuing him other than making him state the obvious, you should know this. This is why I find it weird you are going after him.

I´ll rather judge him for how he acts now, not because of what launch did, its just confusing to treat both as if they are the same player, when they are just the same role.

 

[Hyperactivity]

Yeah, we both agree that you have to play as town when you are town and also play as town when you are scum, that much is clear, I was just telling why I think launch decided to defend me.

But L_P has no way of knowing why launch acted as he did, its an empty lead, you just can´t make L_P accountable for Launch´s actions because L_P can easily reason that he just doesn´t know what launch wanted to achieve. This is the reason why I find odd that you still decided to go after him, knowing fully that he can just handwave your request and you will have no option but to change your vote or lynch him anyway, with no new information.

l_p is, effectively, a new player, and there is little point in pursuing him other than making him state the obvious, you should know this. This is why I find it weird you are going after him.

I´ll rather judge him for how he acts now, not because of what launch did, its just confusing to treat both as if they are the same player, when they are just the same role.

But them being the same role is important, in case they're scum. I just find launch to be the scummiest player from yesterday, and that impression is going to color my impression on lone_prodigy. Sure L_P has no idea on why the previous player with his role played the way he did. So making a read based on how L_P reacts is somewhat limited. But, at the same time, if he is indeed scum or a neutral, than applying pressure can get him to squeal a bit. Not necessarily giving us evidence to contrast against launch, but it can get him to say things that contradict his own statements, etc.

Anyways, I'll stop for now, and give lone_prodigy some time to not worry too much about my vote. My vote is based off of day 1 behavior, so it's very likely something will come up during the day that's a better lead than mine. I'll rest it for now on lone_prodigy, but dude, if you need time to get yourself settled, then take that time. Just try not to wait until the last hour on this one, ok?

 

[Lone_Prodigy]

But them being the same role is important, in case they're scum. I just find launch to be the scummiest player from yesterday, and that impression is going to color my impression on lone_prodigy. Sure L_P has no idea on why the previous player with his role played the way he did. So making a read based on how L_P reacts is somewhat limited. But, at the same time, if he is indeed scum or a neutral, than applying pressure can get him to squeal a bit. Not necessarily giving us evidence to contrast against launch, but it can get him to say things that contradict his own statements, etc.

Anyways, I'll stop for now, and give lone_prodigy some time to not worry too much about my vote. My vote is based off of day 1 behavior, so it's very likely something will come up during the day that's a better lead than mine. I'll rest it for now on lone_prodigy, but dude, if you need time to get yourself settled, then take that time. Just try not to wait until the last hour on this one, ok?

This is a fair point. I can't explain Launch's behaviour, and if it looks scummy to you then I can't change your mind about it since I'm not Launch. The only thing I can control is how I play going forward, and hopefully my pro-town behaviour will change your mind.

 

[Ourobolus]

CURRENT VOTES

Kalor (1)
Palmer_v1

Lone_prodigy (2)
Fireblend
Hyperactivity

Hyperactivity (2)
Kalor
SalvaPot

Fireblend (0)
nin1000

CornBurrito (1)
nin1000

7 votes are needed for majority.

 

[CornBurrito]

That is true... oh wait



After your vote a lot of people bandwagoned and again trying to attach yourself to Fireblend. Urgh

Now that I'm not on mobile I'm going to properly defend myself.

The first time I mentioned Fireblend was here:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=178489184&postcount=525

Day 1 is a rough day. There's no information to be had. I decided to read into an interaction and found reason to believe that two players were likely Town aligned. (Fireblend and El_Topo). With El_topo being the safer read of the two.

In an unfortunate twist of fate, you decided to accuse a player I had Town read yesterday of being scum. And accuse them for being a late vote on KK after his role claim. Quite frankly, I found your reasoning to be ridiculous since it seems like literally 0 people believed KK's claim. This isn't saying that scum wouldn't vote for KK. Or that they wouldn't place a late vote on an easy bandwagoned target. I just really don't find "hey it was after his role claim!" to be good solid reasoning.

I actually have no choice but to attack that reasoning because while I was the second or third vote on KK, I eventually canceled my vote after waking up in the morning and seeing Cabot unvote. Cabot being confirmed town (mostly) at this point kind of has me treating him as a town leader.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=178592981&postcount=881

Then Cabot revotes. And Never Forever further claims that the KK role was a mafia one in the SW game. At this point I don't really know what to do but I vote KK again.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=178593371&postcount=894

This is one post before (and at the same time) that KK posts his "oh I'm also 50% cop btw" post. Had I been even a second later I'd have read it, gone "lol", and still voted for him. Most likely.

So that's why I can't really accept nin's reasoning. And it really had the unfortunate side effect of making me look like I'm trying to parasitically attach myself to Fireblend, but that wasn't my goal.

 

[Fireblend]

Eh, maybe I'm a bit dumb right now, but let us assume cabot didn't lie and his ability requires that someone is actually leading in the polls, okay? That would mean that nin1000, who had one vote more than cabot, cannot have had the voteless voting for him, as that would've (presumably) tied things.

Thus if we assume the above to be correct, none of them can be the voteless player. If we cross out whoever died, that only leaves a few players.

Oh wow. This makes a shit ton of sense. I mean, that is unless Ouro decided to interpret Cabot's power to be based on who most people had voted for instead of the net vote value or screwed up similarly to how he screwed up the hammer, but I guess we're not going to have the luxury of knowing that.

That aside, I agree with your logic 100%. Banana, you're on El Topo's potential 0-weight voters, what do you make of it?

 

[Palmer_v1]

Palmer_v1 (2)
Sorian
Sorian
*Splinter

cabot (0)
Palmer_v1
kingkitty
Hyperactivity
Burbeting
nin1000
kingkitty
Hyperactivity
El Topo

kingkitty (4)
cabot
Fireblend
Never Forever
CornBurrito
Burbeting
cabot
El Topo

SalvaPot (2)
Sorian
cabot
Kalor
Sorian
Hyperactivity
Kalor

Hyperactivity (0)
Kalor
Sorian

Kalor (0)
Fireblend
El Topo
Never Forever
Palmer_v1
*Splinter

Fireblend (1)
Hyperactivity
cabot

Sorian (2)
nin1000
SalvaPot
kingkitty
Palmer_v1
Palmer_v1
nin1000

bananaspaceprincess (1)
Sorian
Sorian
CornBurrito
Kalor
Fireblend

El Topo (0)
cabot
cabot
cabot

Burbeting (0)
cabot
Sorian
El Topo

nin1000 (0)
Hyperactivity
Never Forever
*Splinter
Sorian
cabot

Never Forever (0)
*Splinter

*Splinter (0)
nin1000

Was this list, including the overall vote numbers, correct? What I really want to know is if the number after a name is the number of votes that count against the player, the number of players that have voted for them(whether it counts or not), or something else.

 

[Kevyt]

I don't know who that Ourubolous guy is. Sounds like a dick, though.

 

[CornBurrito]

Eh, maybe I'm a bit dumb right now, but let us assume cabot didn't lie and his ability requires that someone is actually leading in the polls, okay? That would mean that nin1000, who had one vote more than cabot, cannot have had the voteless voting for him, as that would've (presumably) tied things.

Thus if we assume the above to be correct, none of them can be the voteless player. If we cross out whoever died, that only leaves a few players.

I actually am curious as to what would have happened had Cabit used his ability with a tie going on. Cabot, respond in gif or meme. Do you know what would have happened?

 

[Palmer_v1]

I actually am curious as to what would have happened had Cabit used his ability with a tie going on. Cabot, respond in gif or meme. Do you know what would have happened?

What have I missed that makes us think Cabot could only use his ability on whoever had the most votes?

 

[Hyperactivity]

What have I missed that makes us think Cabot could only use his ability on whoever had the most votes?

His word I guess. I trust cabot for now, but you'd be right to say that we'll only ever know if cabot dies

 

[Ourobolus]

Numbers show how many votes the player has.

 

[Palmer_v1]

Numbers show how many votes the player has.

That still doesn't answer the question, I think. Which of these scenarios are possible, assuming 7 players, needing 4 for majority:

A:

Palmer (3)
Player A
Player B
Player C
Player D

B:

Palmer (4)
Player A
Player B
Player C
Player D

but day doesn't end because no majority reached.

 

[Ourobolus]

I don't understand. Both scenarios are possible?

 

[Hyperactivity]

I don't understand. Both scenarios are possible?

 

[Ourobolus]

Oh I see what you are saying. A

 

[Hyperactivity]

I guess everyone but cabot should vote

Can we request constant vote counts ouro? Like every two votes?

 

[Fireblend]

Ok now I really want to see what a BSP vote will do.

 

[Ourobolus]

I guess everyone but cabot should vote

Can we request constant vote counts ouro? Like every two votes?

Technically. Not right now though, about to go to bed

 

[Hyperactivity]

Ok now I really want to see what a BSP vote will do.

?

Every single king kitty voter should be voting within the first 24 hours. Let's get this puzzle out of the way s that we're not wasting any extra time on it in the future

Barring cabot of course, you save it till the end

 

[Fireblend]

?

Every single king kitty voter should be voting within the first 24 hours. Let's get this puzzle out of the way s that we're not wasting any extra time on it in the future

Barring cabot of course, you save it till the end

bananaspaceprincess is both on El Topo's list and doesn't show up in the votes list quoted above.

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

 

[Hyperactivity]

bananaspaceprincess is both on El Topo's list and doesn't show up in the votes list quoted above.

Vote list

Yoooo
Yooooo

WTF.
BSP get in here, i'm curious.

She definitely had voted earlier, I just checked

 

[nin1000]

Yoooo
Yooooo

WTF.
BSP get in here, i'm curious.

She definitely had voted earlier, I just checked

Timezones man Timezones!

 

[Palmer_v1]

Did she replace launchpad? Is that why he bailed? He literally had no power. He was just a treestump.

 

[nin1000]

Did she replace launchpad? Is that why he bailed? He literally had no power. He was just a treestump.

Nope, there from the beginning

 

[Palmer_v1]

Nope, there from the beginning

Yup, I got her mixed up. Sorry!

 

[cabot]

Lol all this talk about mechanics. We need more mechanics talk.

Guys, I roam at night. I got a list of all the people I passed on my nightly walk. Last night I saw:

Cabot, nin, el_topo, bananspaceprincess.

Spoiler

im being 100 unserious right now btw

And if he couldn't

Cabot, just say first if you can specify more, and then if you know any more

I doubt ouro made anyone voteless. It's like the 2nd worst thing after jesters in mafia. Either someone had a role they could use during the day or cabot's role left him voteless that day

Topo is pointing out that nin only led by 1 vote, and if 1 of the votes on him "didn't count" then maybe Cabot's ability wouldn't have activated. However, as I was pointing out, you clarified (today) that this wasn't a discounted vote or anything but a simple mistake. (I hope I have this right now, sorry if I'm just causing confusion).

I included the possibility of Ouro lying purely for the sake of completeness (and I just read the explanation of Bastard Mafia)

? My mistake was with the final vote - it had nothing to do with cabot. Or any earlier events.

What have I missed that makes us think Cabot could only use his ability on whoever had the most votes?

My ability allows me to throw the command and determine the alignment of the person with the most votes, which in this case is our man nin1000.

.

 

[nin1000]

.

Did he cast a vote on Sorian?

 

[Bananaspaceprincess]

Ok now I really want to see what a BSP vote will do.

All right here we go then.

Why remove yourself from the list? Are we sure the voteless person knows they are voteless?

Also it would be hilarious if banaspaceprincess ended up being the voteless person in her first game.

First of all. Yes, the voteless player knows that he’s voteless and second I would say it sucks more than it’s being hilarious!

I was very unsure on how to play when I got the role and I actually already excepted being out in the first D/N circle.

My plan was just to try and blend in as long as possible but now the discussion about it keeps us from following more important issues.

I am an immigrant waiting for my visa to get approved. For now I am voiceless. But if I help GOP find and lynch scum during the day there is a chance that my visa will get approved and I can finally be a full member of the team.

I don't know how many Electorates we would need to lynch in order to get my visa

Also a night kills of a Mafia member from whoever does that won't help with my issue either.

Spoiler

I would understand if you want to lynch me for the avoidance of doubt but I'm asking you to please not turbo me out so I can play at least one more day IRL

 

[nin1000]

Well, that sure is interesting! No need to worry now that we have cleared that. The president will ensure that you will get your visa and get to stay on US soil.

 

[Bananaspaceprincess]

Well, that sure is interesting! No need to worry now that we have cleared that. The president will ensure that you will get your visa and get to stay on US soil.

That's too kind of you Mr. President. I will keep my hopes up then.

 

[cabot]

First of all. Yes, the voteless player knows that he’s voteless and second I would say it sucks more than it’s being hilarious!

I was very unsure on how to play when I got the role and I actually already excepted being out in the first D/N circle.

My plan was just to try and blend in as long as possible but now the discussion about it keeps us from following more important issues.

I am an immigrant waiting for my visa to get approved. For now I am voiceless. But if I help GOP find and lynch scum during the day there is a chance that my visa will get approved and I can finally be a full member of the team.

I don't know how many Electorates we would need to lynch in order to get my visa

Also a night kills of a Mafia member from whoever does that won't help with my issue either.

.

 

[Bananaspaceprincess]

No probability. We have to kill scum during the day! But I don't know how many exactly.

Who knows, Ouro might be rolling the dice for that.

My guess is that we have to kill maybe half of the mafia team so I will be able to actively help eliminating the rest of the them.

 

[Bananaspaceprincess]

Now to something else.

Hyperactivity has a point with Launchpads posts yesterday.
It is pretty interesting that he was defending Salva and on the other hand accuse me with the same argumentation. Salva and I both were not very active yesterday but Launch argued like the following:

I know Salva -> that's how he plays -> he's town

and for me it was

I don't know her -> she's not posting a lot -> she must be scum.

The lack of logic behind that just jumps right in my face now and it really is bad that he can not defend himself anymore. I admit that I feel that he was just trying to make me more active. But anyway I agree with hyper that seeing it on a plate like that it does bring up some doubts about him. It is on L_P now to show us if his behavior gives us more reason to question his alliance.

Now my thoughts on Cabot being silenced for the day. Yesterday he was one of the most active players of the game and he was also almost confirmed townie. The silencing coming from a town PR therefore does not make sense imo. So I strongly believe he was silenced by mafia in attempt to put out a very strong town player. Thanks to Meme generator that is not as effective as it was supposed to I guess

Well, my point here is that him being silenced in my opinion confirms him being town. And following that nin's role for me is now confirmed as well.

I also like the idea of looking closer at the people who did NOT vote for KK.
It's a smaller pool of players than the Kitty votes and I am pretty sure that in order to avoid any connection between mafia at least one of them has to have voted for someone else.