-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Election 2016 [Mafia] | Everlasting GOPstoppers
- Thread starter Ourobolus
- Start date
- Status
No, I meant I would like to know what exactly we will know if you lynch me, both in case I am town and in case I am mafia. I'm the only player BSP suspected as town, so how would lynching me, even if we assume I was mafia, which I am not, even help, when she named no other player in that list as likely town.
CornBurrito
Member
I do want to partially apologize for being so aggressive. But that is how I play when I'm certain of something. And I really don't think I'm just seeing evidence because I want to. I really think I'm on to something with his Christ Christie fake PR stunt, and his Hyper vote.
CornBurrito
Member
My guess is that if you flip scum, the other scum is either Splinter (who she gave no opinion on) or someone she did not mention at all. I don't believe she mentioned either Salva or Kalor.
It's the main justification that you and others have brought up. This nonsensical idea that lynching me is going to give us information, when there is no case where it does.
The idea that I faked my role claim is ludicrous and requires enormous suspension of disbelief, my death doesn't bring us any information, there are viable alternative candidates with dubious claims.
Sorry, DR is too exciting
But seriously the two people I was looking at are CornBro and Topo. I can't see the vote going to Corn today no matter what I find, and Topo's defense has been really weak all day. Might as well go with Topo, hopefully he flips scum and I don't have to waste time on Corn (I can't believe they are both scum).
I don't really see the need to turbo this? Kalor and Salvor have barely posted (again!) today, they are really skating by at the moment and I don't want that to come back and bite us later
CornBurrito
Member
Kalor doesn't post much in general it seems. I think that's just how he is in GAFia.
Anyone with a shred of town would see at least one piece of logic in all that's been said to you today. No one has strongly disagreed with me, or CB, there's most likely only two left, why are the townies just suddenly accepting this? Let me guess, I'm the town leader and they follow my lead. Well then they're either a bunch of idiots, or maybe there's a pretty fucking strong case against you.
You've shot down every single piece of information. Not credited anything at all. You've glossed other actually important stuff such as BSP knowing who the electorate are and the RC idea which you haven't actually effectively backed away from successfully, all you've said is that if I was mafia I'd have set Hyper straight.
I believe what happened that day was a complete mess. I believe that you probably tried to get Hyper's attention and make him give a legit claim, but time constraints worked against you and for whatever reason Hyper panicked.
I do not believe for one second if you were genuinely town you'd write down every single piece of information today. It's fucking ludicrous. You'd maybe see some logic but try to fight why keeping you alive is helpful. All you've done is insult, got super defensive, overly dramatic and deflected.
A read list from a neutral who was flipped to have a mafia win condition? How is that something to disregard?
Your very coy role claim? Done over real life days?
Your ignorance to vital information like my silence?
Not agreeing with the idea that a mafia could conceivably have a vested interest in taking down a potential SK/Vigi and working with town to do this?
The fact you've shot absolutely everything down is scummy. Add it to the list. Town have to realise that it's not all about them and therefore they have to be able to view the situation as a team action. Not a solo one.
Your death will not reveal 'nothing'. No death reveals nothing.
You've shot down every single piece of information. Not credited anything at all. You've glossed other actually important stuff such as BSP knowing who the electorate are and the RC idea which you haven't actually effectively backed away from successfully, all you've said is that if I was mafia I'd have set Hyper straight.
I believe what happened that day was a complete mess. I believe that you probably tried to get Hyper's attention and make him give a legit claim, but time constraints worked against you and for whatever reason Hyper panicked.
I do not believe for one second if you were genuinely town you'd write down every single piece of information today. It's fucking ludicrous. You'd maybe see some logic but try to fight why keeping you alive is helpful. All you've done is insult, got super defensive, overly dramatic and deflected.
A read list from a neutral who was flipped to have a mafia win condition? How is that something to disregard?
Your very coy role claim? Done over real life days?
Your ignorance to vital information like my silence?
Not agreeing with the idea that a mafia could conceivably have a vested interest in taking down a potential SK/Vigi and working with town to do this?
The fact you've shot absolutely everything down is scummy. Add it to the list. Town have to realise that it's not all about them and therefore they have to be able to view the situation as a team action. Not a solo one.
Your death will not reveal 'nothing'. No death reveals nothing.
CornBurrito
Member
http://secondapps.com/countdown/t1442955600z1.png
We still do have plenty of time. Fireblend and Salva have also been busy so we can allow them more time to post. Fire and Blarg I think have both promised reads so we can wait on those.
We still do have plenty of time. Fireblend and Salva have also been busy so we can allow them more time to post. Fire and Blarg I think have both promised reads so we can wait on those.
I want to turbo because I don't feel like there's anything else to discuss, switching the topic to Splinter didn't last very long, and frankly I just feel like you are giving more time for Topo to weaken your resolve.
We learn something from his flip, we learn something from every flip. You turbo when you feel theres scum in the midsts.
That's what I feel.
It's up to you guys, don't just blindly follow my lead. If you want to lynch him now then do it, don't feel like because I am that you have to rush into anything. Please don't see me as a leader. I am Town and I want Town to win. I feel I've got my scum target. I'll put my vote down, it's up to the rest of you.
VOTE: El Topo
We learn something from his flip, we learn something from every flip. You turbo when you feel theres scum in the midsts.
That's what I feel.
It's up to you guys, don't just blindly follow my lead. If you want to lynch him now then do it, don't feel like because I am that you have to rush into anything. Please don't see me as a leader. I am Town and I want Town to win. I feel I've got my scum target. I'll put my vote down, it's up to the rest of you.
VOTE: El Topo
That's misleading. We have the option to lynch CornBurrito, which would virtually guarantee useful information beyond "Player was town/neutral/mafia", which is more than you would ever get from lynching me.
What info do we get from Corn that we don't get from you? At this point you are both claimed ordinary town
We have two players with claims that involve people that are not candidates for the presidency, which goes against every confirmed GOP death. If CornBurrito said the truth about his role, SalvaPot's claim about being Ron Paul would seem less outlandish, even though weird (politician not running, active and passive power). We would have lynched a town role without power, but at least his death would have corrobated SalvaPot.
If CornBurrito lied, that would make SalvaPot the only supposed GOP player with a role that is not an actual candidate, which would be highly suspicious (to me). Depending on his lie, it might also reveal more to us. For example, if he had no one-shot ability to kill, that would require another explanation for the two deaths in N3 and it would immediately make SalvaPot look like a liar.
Here's the thing: I don't know if mafia would risk this. It seems to require quite a suspension of disbelief and I would personally expect mafia to play differently, most notably not claim at all unless absolutely necessary.
This is really shortsighted and bordering in metagame talk, I am saying the truth about my role, also I want to let you know I am mexican so my knowledge of the American Candidates is conversational at best, I do know the big players (Obama, Trump, Jeb Bush, Hillary, Bern because of how much he is mentioned on gaf), but with my little knowledge I wouldn´t risk making up a candidate I was not sure how important or not he was in politics.
Eh, if you were mafia you'd have other teammates to help you create a fake roleclaim. It's not like you'd have to come up with this stuff alone necessarily. Not that I suspect you, I'm just saying that's not a great argument.
I don't think discussing whether a role claim is realistic is metagame talk, in particular one that can hardly be proven conclusively. Here's the thing: You claimed without necessity, so naturally I am somewhat inclined to believe you, but it's still not given.
How does the whole "can't hammer the vote" work? If I voted for myself and put me at four votes, does that mean if you voted for me Ouro just wouldn't count it?
Hmm, thats a good point, well either way my role is true.
So about the current cb vs el topo, what do you think fireblend? I feel the evidence shown that hyper recognized El Topo´s claim is strong enough to think they were a team.
Yes, that is what Ouro said. I would had to have voted before you or anyone else for my vote to count.
If I had to say who I personally, ignoring "metagame" talk or theories or role claims, distrust most, it wouldn't even necessarily be CornBurrito and SalvaPot. They're obvious choices based on role claims, but both came forward without much pressure (iirc) and that is something I wouldn't do if I was mafia.
For example, Fireblend is suspicious because he told Kalor to switch his vote from Hyper to BSP. Others seem safe due to their role claim, but it wouldn't hurt if you guys think about it a bit after I'm gone.
So at least we can test that today if we lynch me, no? When I'm at 4, you can just vote for me and it won't count.
For example, Fireblend is suspicious because he told Kalor to switch his vote from Hyper to BSP. Others seem safe due to their role claim, but it wouldn't hurt if you guys think about it a bit after I'm gone.
So at least we can test that today if we lynch me, no? When I'm at 4, you can just vote for me and it won't count.
CornBurrito
Member
That's baloney. Salva didn't claim without necessity. We were wasting so much valuable time thinking there was an SK. Salva's claim let us get past that.
CornBurrito
Member
Wait, he did? When?
How does that make it necessary to role reveal/claim? If you're almost getting lynched, that's when it's necessary to role reveal.
I'd also add that I don't think the SK theory is off the table since we don't know if either of you lied.
In the rush at the end of Day 2. It was after I used my double vote on Hyper. It stuck out to me at the time but I completely forgot to mention it at the start of Day 3. I never considered actually switching to BSP as I didn't suspect them at the time.
Day 2. First he told Kalor to switch to BSP, I think when Hyper didn't have a vote.
He proceeded to vote for Hyper.
Then four minutes before the deadline ran out on D2, when Hyper was leading, he asked Kalor to switch his vote again.
Then he told us to not move a vote.
CornBurrito
Member
I guess necessary was the wrong word, but it wasn't a bad claim I don't think.
Also the SK theory doesn't work unless you think both me AND Salva lied. There'd have been 3 kills rather than 2 when Sorian died if there was a SK and Salva was being honest. If Salva is lying, that would explain why only 2 kills that day but why would he lie and cover for a SK?
Sure, we can test it out.
Also please when I make the hammer no one else vote please, I haven´t asked this but I assume that if someone else vote after I make the hammer my vote will technically count since it was not the hammer vote.
UNVOTE
I meant that it's a somewhat reliable claim because he wasn't forced to do it, unlike Hyper.
Mafia? Maybe he's bulletproof. Yeah, the SK theory basically only works if both of you lie, which is why lynching one of you would be enough to refute or corrobate it.
I don't think it's likely, because it requires coordination and trust among members of different factions, but I wanted to mention it as a possibility. Without going too much into meta-talk, I'm also not sure if 2 Mafia + 1 SK would be too easy for town, whereas 3 Mafia + SK might be too difficult.
That was more about avoiding a tie. I thought it was too late to try switching everyone to a new target (Hyper) and was worried that Kalor was setting us on a path to tie the game.
The SK theory falls apart when you realize that, if I was a SK, I had no reason to make the claim I made. SK win condition is usually to kill everyone else or kill a definitive number of players. At the moment, bsp was about to be lynched because town had the idea she was the SK. So, if I was SK, I would have just let her die. Regardless of her flip, it would have proved nothing to town of the real SK identity, and if I was SK I would be free to just kill again. In that moment, l_p was next in line to be lynched, so that is two days more for me, if I was SK, to kill more players and add to the confusion.
My claim, if I was SK, pretty much limits me on killing. The moment my role can kill someone who is not a visiting PR my role falls apart and I´ll be for sure the next in the chopping block. But its exactly this reason why I had no reason to claim the moment I did. If I was SK I´ll benefit from killing as much people as I can without people trying to lynch me, and on Day 2 I could easily just let bsp died and keep on killing. I didn´t, because I can´t kill out of my own free will, and because I am a town player.
It gives you an alibi and shifts attention away from the serial killer discussion, which is benefitial to a serial killer or even mafia, depending on how one views the usefulness of SK for mafia. I'd also add that you didn't chime in when kingkitty claimed a RNG power and was lynched, which is convenient.
Also I disagree on the whole "Kill as much as possible". I've been SK and in hindsight it would've helped me more to not kill someone during N2, because it would've allowed a different fake role claim and would've eased town into the idea that there is no SK. If you are not bulletproof, as I was, it is also advantageous to claim immunity during night.
Again, I consider it a possibility. Not a particularly likely one, as it requires very risky play.
CornBurrito
Member
Looks like it might be working. El Topo is going to talk himself out of a lynch despite all the evidence being on the wall. Yeah, lynch me or Salva for "confirmation" that we aren't lying. Don't go after the scum. Ignore the man behind the curtain.
CornBurrito
Member
Sure. There's no fucking chance you're town. I won't let my resolve waver.
CornBurrito
Member
By the way was that some sort of trap El Topo?
Nah. I'd rather see Fireblend or *Splinter (who never mentioned he got a message until after Hyper claimed) get lynched, but your death is helpful as well, as it basically rules out the existence of a serial killer, which means we should only lose one player each night.
Blargonaut
Banned
VOTE: CornBurrito
CornBurrito
Member
Reasoning?
What are you even implying?
CornBurrito
Member
Still waiting on Blarg and Fireblend to post those promised read lists. Or at least just say "I got lazy, fuck u" or something.
Not lazy, just busy :S quick reads maybe?
CornBurrito [m] - 2nd in my "lynch targets" list from yesterday, but since then has been feeling more pro-town.
SalvaPot [m] - I think he's town because he was the first vote against Hyper on day 2. Hasn't posted much, but I have no reason not to believe he's town.
cabot [m] - Town through and through. Keeps things moving.
Blargonaut [m] - Potential lynch target for tomorrow. Conveniently skipped day 2 due to replacing an inactive NF. May have been trying to get some godwill by offering himself as a sacrifice to test Corn's power yesterday. Strong name claim that has gone uncontested though - hardly clears him but my gut says he could be town.
El Topo [m] - I agree he's the most suspicious atm. bsp's read list may have given him away since she read him as town which was a departure from most people's reads. His behavior and the way he role claimed are odd, and he voted for Hyper when it didn't matter anymore.
Kalor [m] - His doublevote and the fact he used it on hyper makes me think he's town. Not reading much else off him though.
Fireblend [m] - So town it hurts.
*Splinter [m] - Hard to read. For what it's worth he didn't vote for Hyper, but he said he was leaving before the bandwagon on him even started. I have to check my previous reads post to see what I had to say about him then.
CornBurrito [m] - 2nd in my "lynch targets" list from yesterday, but since then has been feeling more pro-town.
SalvaPot [m] - I think he's town because he was the first vote against Hyper on day 2. Hasn't posted much, but I have no reason not to believe he's town.
cabot [m] - Town through and through. Keeps things moving.
Blargonaut [m] - Potential lynch target for tomorrow. Conveniently skipped day 2 due to replacing an inactive NF. May have been trying to get some godwill by offering himself as a sacrifice to test Corn's power yesterday. Strong name claim that has gone uncontested though - hardly clears him but my gut says he could be town.
El Topo [m] - I agree he's the most suspicious atm. bsp's read list may have given him away since she read him as town which was a departure from most people's reads. His behavior and the way he role claimed are odd, and he voted for Hyper when it didn't matter anymore.
Kalor [m] - His doublevote and the fact he used it on hyper makes me think he's town. Not reading much else off him though.
Fireblend [m] - So town it hurts.
*Splinter [m] - Hard to read. For what it's worth he didn't vote for Hyper, but he said he was leaving before the bandwagon on him even started. I have to check my previous reads post to see what I had to say about him then.
Might as well, I've been slacking a bit lately
CornBurrito [m] - I still don't trust him. I think I've got a pretty good feel for CornBro after harassing him all of last game, and some things have seemed off compared to that. That said I agree he's been a lot more townish today, and if Topo is scum my trust greatly increases.
SalvaPot [m] - Dodgy role claim, dodgier title, very limited contributions to the game. I'm leaning scum but I think his title is influencing that more than anything.
cabot [m] - Was "confirmed" D1, has seemed to be a very positive force since then. Town.
Blargonaut [m] - Honestly no idea. I think I townread Never Forever, but Blargonaut plays a strange game. I'm concerned that he isn't being as helpful as he could be, beyond that I've got nothing.
El Topo [m] - I started today equally suspicious of Corn and Topo, but while Corn had a good day Topo has presented a woeful defense. He has my vote.
Kalor [m] - I have literally nothing to go on except his double vote. I "think" this would be a town role, but I don't know if I can be sure about that. Someone suggested it's too powerful as a Mafia role, but I'm not so sure about that: there's probably 3 scum in 16 players and some fairly powerful town roles have come out already. That said I'll guess town for now.
Fireblend [m] - I'm unsure on Fire. He posts a lot but completely flew under my radar D1. He wasn't exactly pivotal in Hyper's lynching either, and he's also been quieter since then.
*Splinter [m] - Still town. Still handsome.
CornBurrito [m] - I still don't trust him. I think I've got a pretty good feel for CornBro after harassing him all of last game, and some things have seemed off compared to that. That said I agree he's been a lot more townish today, and if Topo is scum my trust greatly increases.
SalvaPot [m] - Dodgy role claim, dodgier title, very limited contributions to the game. I'm leaning scum but I think his title is influencing that more than anything.
cabot [m] - Was "confirmed" D1, has seemed to be a very positive force since then. Town.
Blargonaut [m] - Honestly no idea. I think I townread Never Forever, but Blargonaut plays a strange game. I'm concerned that he isn't being as helpful as he could be, beyond that I've got nothing.
El Topo [m] - I started today equally suspicious of Corn and Topo, but while Corn had a good day Topo has presented a woeful defense. He has my vote.
Kalor [m] - I have literally nothing to go on except his double vote. I "think" this would be a town role, but I don't know if I can be sure about that. Someone suggested it's too powerful as a Mafia role, but I'm not so sure about that: there's probably 3 scum in 16 players and some fairly powerful town roles have come out already. That said I'll guess town for now.
Fireblend [m] - I'm unsure on Fire. He posts a lot but completely flew under my radar D1. He wasn't exactly pivotal in Hyper's lynching either, and he's also been quieter since then.
*Splinter [m] - Still town. Still handsome.
Blargonaut
Banned
I guess I'll hand out some quick reads too in the interim
CzarTim [m]/CornBurrito [m]
SalvaPot [m]
cabot [m]
Never Forever [m]/Blargonaut [m]
El Topo [m]
Kalor [m]
Fireblend [m]
*Splinter [m]
I trust you will all take this into account and act intelligently and pragmatically
SalvaPot [m]
cabot [m]
El Topo [m]
Kalor [m]
Fireblend [m]
*Splinter [m]
I trust you will all take this into account and act intelligently and pragmatically
Hyperactivity
Banned
great, now I'm hungry
- Status