Anton Sugar
Member
Yeah, two Vultures and an FDL can wreck shop, for real. Glad you made it out alive--lucky they didn't try to powerplant you!
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Elite: Dangerous |OT| Every Man's Sky
- Thread starter Aztechnology
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No, submitted to the interdiction. Hull repair is expensive enough on those things.
I was popping chaff like a mad man
Only running A4 shields as it's a trading build. That's plenty for npcs but vs 4 combat fitted human controlled ships they went poof before I could even reach for the scb.
Oh, system was 34 pegasi, just in case any of you are in the area - be warned.
I was popping chaff like a mad man
Only running A4 shields as it's a trading build. That's plenty for npcs but vs 4 combat fitted human controlled ships they went poof before I could even reach for the scb.
Oh, system was 34 pegasi, just in case any of you are in the area - be warned.
Dreams-Visions
Member
word.
Indiscriminate killing is neither realistic nor enjoyable. same shit happened to me when I was RES farming the other day. Apparently tired of their inability to kill any NPCs with my high damage output, they decided to attack me while I was attacking other NPCs. True cowardice. No discussion, no interaction. If that's what Open play is becoming, you guys can keep it.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Some players ain't men. Or they forgot how to be. Now they're just nothing. They got out to the edge of the galaxy, to that place of nothing, and that's what they became.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
It was a clipper with a pair of vultures that destroyed me a few weeks ago while returning from exploring. They never said anything in coms, just interdicted me and started blasting. I wasn't wanted nor pledged to a power, they just attacked. Actually the clipper kept me masslocked while the vultures tore my unarmed Asp to shreds.
Then a few days later I witnessed a hacker who was so invincible even the station couldn't destroy him.
I joined the Mobius group the next day, lol!
Felix Lighter
Member
So you get a bounty now when a security ship crashes into you and explodes and it last 7 days? Well fuck, I guess I'm done with the Bounty Hunting CG.
Dreams-Visions
Member
yea basically. just find a new res site. they're a dime a dozen.
Felix Lighter
Member
The problem is that it was a community goal system so I can no longer contribute to that. I reached 15% but by the time it is over I'm sure I'll be at the bottom. I'm sure in the end I'm better off because it was a bounty hunting CG without a RES. I was bounty hunting at the nav point which earns you far far less.
Edit:
Dev Update July 9th
I'm not sure if I should be encouraged or discouraged by this part:
On one hand, I'm glad they aren't ignoring it and are talking about it. On the other hand, it's an issue that has been around for many months, I'm surprised it's so difficult to identify the cause of such an easily reproducible performance issue.
Dreams-Visions
Member
oh that's fucked up. sorry man
also,
http://www.powerplayreport.com/
RIP, Arissa. A tale of greed and over-expansion leading to collapse. The age of Aisling is nearly upon us.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Hah, what the hell happened there? I signed to her but started playing other things immediately after.
Anton Sugar
Member
Holy crap, what happened with Arissa??
Fake edit, thanks reddit
Interesting. It's kinda awesome that this stuff can dynamically happen, but as people in that thread have stated, what's there to stop it from happening to any/every faction? Like, how do you tell ALL members of a power "hey, stop expanding! we're going to collapse" when the only way to communicate, on a wide scale, is via the forums/reddit/etc?
Fake edit, thanks reddit
Interesting. It's kinda awesome that this stuff can dynamically happen, but as people in that thread have stated, what's there to stop it from happening to any/every faction? Like, how do you tell ALL members of a power "hey, stop expanding! we're going to collapse" when the only way to communicate, on a wide scale, is via the forums/reddit/etc?
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
You can't, not in game anyway. And that's the crux of the problem with Elite Dangerous right now: it's trying to be a massively multiplayer game without the default tools to do so, namely guilds, chat channels, etc.
Eventually we will end up with all of civilized space in rebellion and turmoil, which might be fun anyway, lol.
Anton Sugar
Member
Hahaha, it would be pretty amusing if FD didn't step in and just let chaos happen in an "emergent" fashion.
Dreams-Visions
Member
game needs...I don't know.
while freedom to do what thou wilt is a design goal, the overarching problem is that freedom without some measure of focus is just chaos, and PP can be fairly described as "chaos" right now. there's no real command structure; just players doing whatever...and most players in PP are motivated by grinding merits to get cash bonuses rather than choosing the correct places to expand and fortifying where needed. This may be a consequence of how rewards are being determined; making it a grind-fest where grinding can be done independently of any real value to the power has resulted predictably in people doing exactly that. Forcing expansions into space that has no value for our power (or even worse, a big negative income value) and shit like that. I like that the opportunity to do that (in essence being able to betray a power) is fantastic...but I get the distinct impression that many don't realize they're doing so.
...then again, maybe those players do know and simply don't give a shit. In which case, all is well in the game. If people want to fuck over their own power in mass, let it so be. But if that was not their intention (and it's hard for me to imagine it was with a 50% bounty bonus to enjoy...best perk in the game?), perhaps FD should look into improving communication and/or direction a bit. Or remodeling the grind elements to be less destructive and more helpful. At the moment, the most effective PP grinds (undermining) feels pretty detached after a short while. I don't know how to make it better myself, but I can certainly see where there are some gaps.
Anyway, have grinded roughly $125 mill since Sunday doing a little trading every day. My goal is another $100 million by...maybe this time next week doing zombie trading. I need to look at the new PP map to see if my trade routes have been torpedoed by expansions. Having to find a new route is tedious as putting together the route I had took more than a couple of hours of trial and error.
if they don't implement some sort of meaningful way to organize in the game, it's not a matter of if, but when.
Zalusithix
Member
Even with guilds etc I don't see the base issue being fixed. You have a bunch of independent people more or less exploiting an NPC that has no power to control their own fate. If it were a player in power, they could theoretically cast out people that undermined their cause. "Stop expanding or I'll boot you from my faction." Expecting people to be unified without a higher force directing and keeping them in line is... a pipe dream that would require a virtual utopia. Given we haven't achieved that in the real world yet, I don't see that happening in game.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Change the bolded core mechanic, then.
Perhaps move the "merits" over to the missions bulletin board. Make a special "Power Play" section of the bulletin board separate from the regular rank/influence progression board that is strictly for those who want to impact Power Play.
Perhaps in this scenario, powers automatically expand based on player contribution? No that probably won't work because the power with the most players autowins. Or maybe a hybrid where you do PP missions in the systems you want to control and the undermining system can remain but at a lower merit value...or maybe...idunno. The start of an idea.
There has to be a way to keep the grind of doing things, but without the mindless monotony and abject aimlessness of it all as it stands. Or maybe it keeps the monotony but gains some aim that discourages afk merit farmers from farming away at bad locations. Maybe those negative value locations provide less total merits per shipment or action? That would stop people from merit farming at shit locations real quick, no?
Dreams-Visions
Member
Okay more fleshed out ideas:
Both of these can be implemented without the need to add more communication tools to the game directly, while using features already in the game (in theory requiring minimal development work compared to other ideas).
edit: hotfix coming to un-fuck ADL's situation: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=165048
- Decrease the value of merit points given from places that would provide a negative income for the power. This would create a strong disincentive for people trying to grind a given rank and provide a subtle nudge towards better focus and being more helpful overall. Would you grind merits at a given location if it was going to give you 50% less merit points (at a negative income location) or 20% less merit points (at a mediocre merit location)? I would think not. So for example: a preparation site less than say...50CC income for the power would provide less merit points than a place above 50CC...and a negative CC income location would provide less still. It would also incentivize using the map to search for the best possible locations to expand, as it is now in your best interests to spend your time preparing a location that is good for your power (because it's now better for you than a random shithole).
- Make a new tab on bulletin boards for PowerPlay missions to provide a good merit income option to afk undermining or afk paper shoveling while keeping you close to home if you want to make a good merit income and help fortify/expand and don't want to be bored to fucking tears by the waiting around in supercruise for defenseless NPCs to spawn or being a glorified UPS (wo)man.
Both of these can be implemented without the need to add more communication tools to the game directly, while using features already in the game (in theory requiring minimal development work compared to other ideas).
edit: hotfix coming to un-fuck ADL's situation: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=165048
Zalusithix
Member
Actually, heading back to the guilds idea, if guilds were implemented I suppose it would be possible to change the system from the current "everybody has a say" mentality (complete democracy) to one where the most influential guilds of a given faction have more control over the decision making processes. Create a system where a guild's contribution to a faction is weighted, and that weight is then applied to their "votes" on what to do. Random faction members would also be able to vote, but they'd be counted for significantly less. Give some bonus to the top contributing guilds (ideally something superficial) that gives them an objective reason to be in the top. Then the players would more or less self regulate.
I must admit that I've not followed Powerplay and all the involved systems at all. Didn't see much incentive while I'm casually hunting some bounties in my Viper, pretty much as a starting player.
Still, the impression I'm getting is that Frontier is desperately trying to avoid giving the economy into player hands. No player controlled stations, no crafting, no trade between players. Dropping cargo canisters doesn't count and without crafting there is no incentive for player to player trade in the first place. The reason I suspect, is that they're clinging to the notion that the game should be just like 1984's Elite with added multiplayer. No players should own control and block a certain part of space. At least that seems to be the big fear of people opposed to the notion of Elite becoming like Eve and maybe of those clamoring for an offline mode.
Yet, that seems to be at odds with the desire to have a really emergent in-universe story. Power Play seems to be an attempt to introduce a CPU controlled way for players to group together, identify themselves with some group and to give their actions a tactical direction. From my outsider's perspective though, it seems like a convuluted addition to existing game mechanics that mostly just succeeds at letting players search ways to exploit the system to generate more personal profit with the way they already play the game. I have a very hard time imagining identifying and even less coordinating with a group that offers no internal in-game communication or human interaction, but lets me only inderectly influence its strategy through regular grindy actions.
As such, I consider powerplay a failed attempt to add a layer of depth, long term motivation for very active players and opportunities tfor emergent content to the game.
I believe reconsidering their stance about player control is a much more promising way to add all this to the game. Due to the instanced nature of ED it's possible to add player control without giving players the opportunity to block chunks of the game for "single-players".
E.g. introduce guilds as subfactions to major powers, give them "control" over stations, if they fulfill certain conditions vs. other guilds or game powers. E.g. introduce instanced guild battle missions whose outcome decides over the control. But still, let jurisdiction be server controlled! No single-player should be hindered to land on a guild controlled station and do trade there. Give the guild a fixed percentage of profit generated by the stations, by all trades, ship sales etc. in solo and open. Display their guild symbol, make it clear they're controlling the station, offer them trade bonuses there and ship discounts. But have their members attacked by security and denied landing like every other player, if they've become wanted. Give the guild's leaders power to influence the legal goods in the station systems etc., in return for services they've done to their major faction, like bounty hunting. Link the kind of ships that the stations shipyards can produce to the supply of resources and how well the guild supplies the station with such ressources.
....
Well, at least in my head that sound so incredibly much more motivating than the current state of power play. But I'm not a game designer, so what do I know....
Still, the impression I'm getting is that Frontier is desperately trying to avoid giving the economy into player hands. No player controlled stations, no crafting, no trade between players. Dropping cargo canisters doesn't count and without crafting there is no incentive for player to player trade in the first place. The reason I suspect, is that they're clinging to the notion that the game should be just like 1984's Elite with added multiplayer. No players should own control and block a certain part of space. At least that seems to be the big fear of people opposed to the notion of Elite becoming like Eve and maybe of those clamoring for an offline mode.
Yet, that seems to be at odds with the desire to have a really emergent in-universe story. Power Play seems to be an attempt to introduce a CPU controlled way for players to group together, identify themselves with some group and to give their actions a tactical direction. From my outsider's perspective though, it seems like a convuluted addition to existing game mechanics that mostly just succeeds at letting players search ways to exploit the system to generate more personal profit with the way they already play the game. I have a very hard time imagining identifying and even less coordinating with a group that offers no internal in-game communication or human interaction, but lets me only inderectly influence its strategy through regular grindy actions.
As such, I consider powerplay a failed attempt to add a layer of depth, long term motivation for very active players and opportunities tfor emergent content to the game.
I believe reconsidering their stance about player control is a much more promising way to add all this to the game. Due to the instanced nature of ED it's possible to add player control without giving players the opportunity to block chunks of the game for "single-players".
E.g. introduce guilds as subfactions to major powers, give them "control" over stations, if they fulfill certain conditions vs. other guilds or game powers. E.g. introduce instanced guild battle missions whose outcome decides over the control. But still, let jurisdiction be server controlled! No single-player should be hindered to land on a guild controlled station and do trade there. Give the guild a fixed percentage of profit generated by the stations, by all trades, ship sales etc. in solo and open. Display their guild symbol, make it clear they're controlling the station, offer them trade bonuses there and ship discounts. But have their members attacked by security and denied landing like every other player, if they've become wanted. Give the guild's leaders power to influence the legal goods in the station systems etc., in return for services they've done to their major faction, like bounty hunting. Link the kind of ships that the stations shipyards can produce to the supply of resources and how well the guild supplies the station with such ressources.
....
Well, at least in my head that sound so incredibly much more motivating than the current state of power play. But I'm not a game designer, so what do I know....
Dreams-Visions
Member
that is a fair characterization, Burny.
There are lots of ideas floating around that I think look good on paper. Which if any FD goes with remains to be seen. There are still things they can do to "herd" people in a positive direction without spending big to improve in-game communication tools. But yes, ultimately communication options must improve, instancing must improve, and missions must improve. Among many other things.
This isn't to say I'm not having a good time, but I think a better time can be had. A more clear purpose is at the center of that hope, but clarity is probably FD's weakest link. Everything about the game is opaque, from the first first time you load up in your Sidewinder for the first time. Directions and instructions are sparse and the manual/tutorials only prepare you for maybe 20% of the game and its mechanics. Module options and explanations are often left to trial and error or becoming dependent on forums like this to help you make purchase decisions because there is no helpful information provided in the item descriptions to aid you in making an informed decision. The game is littered with examples like this where clarity is obstructed for no apparent reason.
There are lots of ideas floating around that I think look good on paper. Which if any FD goes with remains to be seen. There are still things they can do to "herd" people in a positive direction without spending big to improve in-game communication tools. But yes, ultimately communication options must improve, instancing must improve, and missions must improve. Among many other things.
This isn't to say I'm not having a good time, but I think a better time can be had. A more clear purpose is at the center of that hope, but clarity is probably FD's weakest link. Everything about the game is opaque, from the first first time you load up in your Sidewinder for the first time. Directions and instructions are sparse and the manual/tutorials only prepare you for maybe 20% of the game and its mechanics. Module options and explanations are often left to trial and error or becoming dependent on forums like this to help you make purchase decisions because there is no helpful information provided in the item descriptions to aid you in making an informed decision. The game is littered with examples like this where clarity is obstructed for no apparent reason.
Zalusithix
Member
I'm honestly not sure whether they're in a schizophrenic state where they simultaneously want to give players influence and yet restrict their ability to control things, or whether the lack of players being able to have real control is a side effect of where their nearly non-existent social tools in game is preventing them from implementing the features in the first place.
Anton Sugar
Member
Yeah, their "no, that isn't what Elite is about--this is what Elite is about" excuse feels thinner and thinner with the addition of Powerplay and CQC.
I hope they reconcile their weird design philosophy contradictions and soon.
I hope they reconcile their weird design philosophy contradictions and soon.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Yea.
Welp, all I know is I'm ~$100 million away from finishing the builds for all of my ships (armor notwithstanding. $20 million a day of trading should do the trick. After that, any other income will be obtained by bounty hunting...which is what I bought the game to do in the first place.
Welp, all I know is I'm ~$100 million away from finishing the builds for all of my ships (armor notwithstanding. $20 million a day of trading should do the trick. After that, any other income will be obtained by bounty hunting...which is what I bought the game to do in the first place.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Check Frontier's YouTube channel.
So this is somewhat related to Elite, but I'm wondering if anyone has ever experienced this before. I have a Saitek X-52, and my new desk has built-in USB ports, so now I can leave my X-52 plugged in all the time because there is room on my desk now. However I noticed sometimes randomly my mouse cursor jittered up and down. At first I thought it was my mouse freaking out on me, and rebooting my computer seemed to fix it for a matter of hours.
Then it happened again today and I tried unplugging my mouse briefly. Watched the cursor, still doing it. I was glad I eliminated the mouse from the problem, but then I had to figure out what was causing it. I thought about it and realized it: It was the mouse stick on my X-52 causing it somehow, but why only sometimes? I hadn't touched it, unless my cat did while I wasn't looking. Anyway, I went ahead and uninstalled all other mice from the Device Manager except my real mouse, so now it doesn't do it anymore, however the little mouse stick doesn't function on my X-52 anymore. Obviously it's pretty easy to make it function again, but I'm curious if anyone has ever ran into an issue like this and found a way to make it not jitter like that.
Then it happened again today and I tried unplugging my mouse briefly. Watched the cursor, still doing it. I was glad I eliminated the mouse from the problem, but then I had to figure out what was causing it. I thought about it and realized it: It was the mouse stick on my X-52 causing it somehow, but why only sometimes? I hadn't touched it, unless my cat did while I wasn't looking. Anyway, I went ahead and uninstalled all other mice from the Device Manager except my real mouse, so now it doesn't do it anymore, however the little mouse stick doesn't function on my X-52 anymore. Obviously it's pretty easy to make it function again, but I'm curious if anyone has ever ran into an issue like this and found a way to make it not jitter like that.
Dreams-Visions
Member
sounds like a USB power issue, which Saitek sticks are known to have. might not be able to use the desktop ports. may not be delivering enough power for the sticks to properly function.
The more I think about it, the more I believe that not allowing players to form groups (guilds) and having some direct responsibilities over stations (upkeep and development, NOT allowing or denying others to dock and trade!) is hurting the game's world.
While I'm enjoying myself, Elite Dangerous' world's doctrine is one of "Look - don't touch!" The world is never going to feel alive, unless players or player groups are given direct responsibility and control over stations. Automated systems won't make the world feel alive.
As a result, the game world is giving me the feeling of a static artificial backdrop, when I take it as a whole. Yet, approaching that topic in the Frontier Forums results in a lot of angst towards Elite becoming like Eve or evolving into something more dynamic than 1984's Elite with added multiplayer. >.<
While I'm enjoying myself, Elite Dangerous' world's doctrine is one of "Look - don't touch!" The world is never going to feel alive, unless players or player groups are given direct responsibility and control over stations. Automated systems won't make the world feel alive.
As a result, the game world is giving me the feeling of a static artificial backdrop, when I take it as a whole. Yet, approaching that topic in the Frontier Forums results in a lot of angst towards Elite becoming like Eve or evolving into something more dynamic than 1984's Elite with added multiplayer. >.<
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Angst towards Elite becoming like Eve? How odd, because sometimes playing Elite makes me want to play Eve instead.
Honestly: Mixing the flight model and universe of Elite with Eve's player agency? Yeah that sounds pretty great.
Honestly: Mixing the flight model and universe of Elite with Eve's player agency? Yeah that sounds pretty great.
Yeah, pretty much. The reluctance to go that route is super frustrating. FD's NPC backdrop of a universe is very underwhelming so far and limiting player control is just going to make it more dull.
They do have to expand player agency more. The Elite of 1984 w/ multiplayer isn't enough in this day and age.
The game should be evolving from that. I love that idea of having upkeep of stations and such.
PP seems to be them trying to give the player more ability to affect the world, but it's not enough. In the end, all you're seeing are prices fluctuating and blobs in a map changing. There has to be something more tangible in the universe that players can have an effect on.
Zalusithix
Member
You should find the pirates at USS markers, nav beacons, and supposedly even in SC now. As for the money, you can always go trade if combat is too hard.
Dreams-Visions
Member
What are you flying and what equipment do you have on it?
As for killing pirates, you can go to unidentified signal sources or RES sites. Anyone that scans as wanted is a pirate. You could also check Strong Signal Sources but those tend to be a fair bit tougher.
Forerunner
Member
I tried a strong signal the other night. Two Anacondas and a FDL. Nope, jumped as fast as I could. My Cobra isn't up for that.
Dreams-Visions
Member
lmao.
yea...SSS can be...quite the load. Ass-clenching is quite common in those. Even decent end-game setups don't want a piece of dual condas and an FdL if there is no support.
Zalusithix
Member
One of my SSS visits when looking for pirates in a naval ascension quest had 3 condas. Pretty sure there was more than that too, but I can't remember the exact details. I couldn't "nope" out of there fast enough.
It doesn't imo. Players controlling access to parts of the game world? Nope, I can do without that.
But players being allowed to take responsibility for stations, their maintenance costs and in return receiving parts of the stations profits and ship discounts? Sure, sounds great to me. That would also finally give a meaning to supplies like "food". >.<
I can see that working even w/ a reputation system for things like if a station refuses to receive slaves. That would be awesome.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
There are 400 billion stars. If someone claims an area you can go somewhere else.
I'm gonna start a group with confederate flag decals and blow up any station that prohibits slave trading.
Chance Hale
Member
Jumped in for the first time in forever, my hauler got interdicted and I got one hit kill by some horrible ship. Oh dee well.
Dreams-Visions
Member
NPC or player?
The union will form once again, and the Abraham Lincoln will be our headquarters... lol
Only problem I see with this is that the Federations supports the slave trade. lol
Chance Hale
Member
I was dead too fast to tell but I assume player because of how fast it happened? I mean I literally got knocked out and was dead within 5 seconds.
Well that attitude is exactly what causes the antagonization of guilds in Elite. Luckily the game is instanced and has a solo mode, so everybody goes where they want to unharrassed by players if they feel like it.
And yet, there is still a lot of room for guild features.
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