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[flyinpiranha]

I don't think I've ever found a run that's actually the profit they have listed. Maybe I'm just having bad luck but for something that says 2974 or similar it's actually 1300.

Edit: Yeah, they're adding the profit from each leg into that figure. You're only making around 1200-1400/ton per trip, which really isn't very good.

Isn't it? I thought that was the average profit range for us traders.

Yes, that's the average. There are better hauls per ton out there, but harder to find. I'm never content with a 1200/ton amount.

$$$$/ton is a terrible metric. You need to look at $$$$ per ton, per hour, or label a timeframe to it.

4k profit per ton is still lower than 1k profit per ton if it takes you 5x the amount of time to do the trip. With my 1200k/1400k trip, I can do a roundtrip in about 15 minutes. So that's 120*2600*(60/15) = 1.25m/hour. And that's on a lazy leg, I can actually cut the roundtrip to 12 minutes if I really pay attention which nets me another run in an hour pushing that to 1.5m/hour.

That's in a DAT Asp too, so it's not really "the trading ship". Eventually will dock this and get a T7 and have both but that's a ways out as I'm getting lazy with my trading.

But you have to put a timeframe to your counts. Even spending time looking can cost precious money. If I spend 15 minutes finding a better route, I just wasted 300k, add the gas to get there (if it's far) plus learning the best planet alignment drop in (so you face the entrance on a station) or which pad will be the "medium" on a damn outpost station when it doesn't light up ... you are losing money while looking for money. And when you add the difference, let's say 1200->1500 (1500 is pretty rare, unless the roundtrip is lower) and you're seeing only a 36k increase (for a 120 cargo Asp). If you spent 30 minutes finding the route (internet or w/e), you'll need to do the run 14 times just to make up the money lost from not sticking to the other one.

I rarely leave a 2300-2600 roundtrip route unless I'm just bored. The money is too good if consistent, and you're doing yourself a disservice. If you even spend an hour looking around for a route, you have to do it almost 30 times to make up for the money you just lost on that last route. You're out a million credits trying to find a 50k increase.

But, that's the "take the trading too seriously" person in me. I usually mess around in menus, think of different weapon loadouts I may use and let all the NPC's interdict me because I can blast them in a few seconds and be on my way. I will put my nose to the grindstone for a couple hours here and there lately mainly because I'm missing one A component to have my Asp fully upgraded. Then I'm doing the Hull and probably when I get the T7 move it to Size 6 shields so it will be a tank.

For example, and this is just a guesstimate, I'd imagine these two would probably even themselves out with time spent:

 

[flyinpiranha]

Thought I'd add this:

Frontier - please give us your road map

We will be revealing more information on what is coming in the next few weeks.

Michael

Not sure I like the "in a few weeks" ... want answers NOW! But it's better than nothing. I'm glad they're all back in the office, fully rested from the holidays and communicating with the fans. Just wish the official forums wasn't so bitter and angry all the time. Sucks that's their official communication area.

EDIT:

Ooh, looking into the ship scaling too (seriously, the costs to run the more expensive ships is pretty astronomical)

Scaling of ship thread

The scaling of ship operational costs is something in our list of balance items to review.

Michael

 

[Xanezz]

Thought I'd add this:

Frontier - please give us your road map



Not sure I like the "in a few weeks" ... want answers NOW! But it's better than nothing. I'm glad they're all back in the office, fully rested from the holidays and communicating with the fans. Just wish the official forums wasn't so bitter and angry all the time. Sucks that's their official communication area.

EDIT:

Ooh, looking into the ship scaling too (seriously, the costs to run the more expensive ships is pretty astronomical)

Scaling of ship thread

I haven't been there in beta/gamma, but this sudden (albeit slight) surge in dev interaction is refreshing. They really need a "blue post" tracker or something like that, make it obvious, might cut down on some of the whinging on the forums.

Spoiler

but who am I kidding, that won't happen, people will still ask the same crap

 

[Effect]

Is there a way of figuring out what ship a target is going to be flying when it comes to getting a kill mission from the board? Anything in the wording that might suggest what you'll encounter? Or will it scale based on what you are flying at any given time?

I've explored around a little and gotten some exploration data (was starting from LHS 3447 but since moved to having my "home" be the Eravate system) I can sell when I'm far enough but not sure I want to go to far in just the starting ship. Though I'm thinking perhaps that might be the best way. So if it's lost I'm not in a hole. I can always back track to the system if I wish. Maybe see if missions can take me from system to the next, etc.

Which brings me to another question. Is there a way of bookmarking/favoriting systems in-game? Or is one just going to have to write down the name of the system and search for it?

 

[bj00rn_]

Ooh, looking into the ship scaling too (seriously, the costs to run the more expensive ships is pretty astronomical)

Scaling of ship thread

It's ok to balance things, as long as it's not too much. I don't like when games are so "balanced" that they become..linear and bland. Kinda (but not quite) like when they removed the Halo CE pistol; no fun allowed It's ok to balance E a little right now when it has a limited number of ships, but in the future with lots of ships I think it's fine that some ships are not perfectly economically efficient.

 

[Jackpot]

Is there a way of figuring out what ship a target is going to be flying when it comes to getting a kill mission from the board? Anything in the wording that might suggest what you'll encounter? Or will it scale based on what you are flying at any given time?

~150,000 means Anaconda with plasma cannon.

 

[mitchman]

~150,000 means Anaconda with plasma cannon.

Which means don't go into the fight without a full load of shield cells.

 

[Effect]

So the payout then? Thanks.

 

[MisterMac]

Beyond sneaking into the station or using an outpost to do missions for federation factions I'm not sure how you'll fix that.

Bounty hunting in federation space should improve your rep with the feds as that's who is paying the bounty.

Shame. I'm reading now that killing bounties that are allied with the Feds can hurt your ratings? I wish there reputation system was explained in the game somewhere. All there is to indicate whats happening is those useless arrows.

I had a pair of not so pleasant encounters with the wall of a space station at full speeds so I'm trying to dig myself out of debt and get enough credits to finally start making trade runs with the Cobra I bought two weeks ago. Thought bounty hunting would give me a nice exciting break from docking with space stations but now I get attacked at all of them. I can sneak in and most of the time don't take fire from security vessels but there are times where I lose 20% of my hull trying to sneak in and getting caught by security vessels who fire on me all the way til I'm inside the hanger.

Ah well. I'll keep on keeping on. If it's possible to raise my rep from Hostile by the time I'm done I'll be a master smuggler. If not, when I have enough money to start making good trades I'll relocate to Imperial or Alliance space.

 

[Nymerio]

Are you sure you only attacked wanted ships? Just because a ship has a bounty doesn't mean you can attack it, if you are not in anarchy space you can only attack wanted ships. For random bounties you have to go to an anarchy system.

 

[flyinpiranha]

User 'taleden' just posted this on the official forums. It's not complete but a really cool tool. Shows prices and such for if you wanted to jump into a new ship:

http://eliteshipyard.nfshost.com/

Forum post.

 

[MisterMac]

Are you sure you only attacked wanted ships? Just because a ship has a bounty doesn't mean you can attack it, if you are not in anarchy space you can only attack wanted ships. For random bounties you have to go to an anarchy system.

Yup. Nothing but wanted. I don't even have a K-Warrant scanner to see if they carried bounties in other systems. So they were flagged with local bounties.I dunno, it's weird. Maybe I did something wrong and don't remember? I did accidentally ram my Cobra into two separate space stations at max thrust killing myself. Do they count texting while docking as a kamikaze?

I've seen other people having trouble with this when I searched around for info on how to fix it. I'll keep plugging away at the bulletin boards and see if I can turn it around.

 

[Kyoufu]

User 'taleden' just posted this on the official forums. It's not complete but a really cool tool. Shows prices and such for if you wanted to jump into a new ship:

http://eliteshipyard.nfshost.com/

Forum post.

Asp upgrades are so expensive lol.

Around 20 bajillion for the ship and everything I want on it.

 

[Nymerio]

Weird, I've been bounty hunting since I got the game and never had a problem. Bugged maybe?

 

[Caesar III]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZAyvBswZp0 gives a good overview on how it's possible to make money off mining. Key seems to be what minerals you mine for and where you do it.

thanks for this!

I need to try this again I guess.

 

[flyinpiranha]

Asp upgrades are so expensive lol.

Around 20 bajillion for the ship and everything I want on it.

Too true. About 20m for the loadout I have currently. Insurance is almost a mil but it's worth it. A good trade run for a few days and you make that money.

Now I just trade run and practice killing when I get interdicted by NPCs. I would really like a Type 7 for trade running and to use the Asp as just a fighter, but that will take a bit.

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

Yup. Nothing but wanted. I don't even have a K-Warrant scanner to see if they carried bounties in other systems. So they were flagged with local bounties.I dunno, it's weird. Maybe I did something wrong and don't remember? I did accidentally ram my Cobra into two separate space stations at max thrust killing myself. Do they count texting while docking as a kamikaze?

I've seen other people having trouble with this when I searched around for info on how to fix it. I'll keep plugging away at the bulletin boards and see if I can turn it around.

Factions don't care if their person you killed was wanted, they were their person and fuck you, buddy!

Seriously, careful about who you kill, even if they're wanted you'll take a faction hit.

 

[Shifty76]

Too true. About 20m for the loadout I have currently. Insurance is almost a mil but it's worth it. A good trade run for a few days and you make that money.

Now I just trade run and practice killing when I get interdicted by NPCs. I would really like a Type 7 for trade running and to use the Asp as just a fighter, but that will take a bit.

That's pretty much what I'm doing, currently doing a rare loop to break the tedium of a single there + back run. Did mess around with the advanced and detailed scanners en route, but I made maybe 200k total at the cost of more than doubling the run time so I sold off those for more cargo room.

 

[MisterMac]

Factions don't care if their person you killed was wanted, they were their person and fuck you, buddy!

Seriously, careful about who you kill, even if they're wanted you'll take a faction hit.

Indeed. I had no clue. It's fine, the Federation are a bunch of unhip squares who can't handle my swagger anyhow. Viva La some other place where they ain't trying to blow my ass up

 

[Anton Sugar]

Factions don't care if their person you killed was wanted, they were their person and fuck you, buddy!

Seriously, careful about who you kill, even if they're wanted you'll take a faction hit.

And always remember that the targeted ship's faction is NOT displayed in the lower left corner of your HUD--that's system info. You need to go to your Contacts panel to see who they are allied with.

 

[Nohar]

Discovered the existence of this game (and Star Citizen) today. The hype is building inside of me, but I'm keeping it at bay for the moment. However, my curiosity is now piqued, and I can't wait to see what those games will become (starting with Elite, since that one is already out but in obvious beta mode*, something which I dooooon't really like to be honest).
* This is just a personal opinion, from what I've been able to gather about the game. I just believe that the game could use more content and balancing before I jump in.

Anyhow, I guess I'll follow the game's progress, and give it a try in a few months. I'm also hoping for a price drop.

Also: wonderful OT!

 

[Kyoufu]

I just crashed into a station, took out my shields and put me at 23% integrity. That was fucking close. *wipes sweat*

 

[elyetis]

Not sure I like the "in a few weeks" ... want answers NOW! But it's better than nothing.

Erg, hardly reassuring about when we should expect the wings update.

 

[Raticus79]

Wow, they're giving people the option of keeping the billions (and being excluded from the race):

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=92883

The billionaires! We decided in the end it was best to reach out to the affected commanders directly (so please check your inboxes) to let them decide what they would like us to do. We’ll either be resetting their credit balances and ranks to their pre-credit-refund values, thus making them eligible for the “Race to Elite” competition again. Or, they may keep their “winnings” and not be eligible for the competition. We felt this was the fairest approach to the situation. Of course, they can always clear their own saves to gain eligibility again.

*25 million times

 

[indigo-cyclops]

Wow, they're giving people the option of keeping the billions (and being excluded from the race):

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=92883

*25 million times

Wish I took advantage of that. Ugh. Would have definitely kept the money.

Yes I'm a bad person. But I want an Asp!

 

[Raticus79]

Wish I took advantage of that. Ugh. Would have definitely kept the money.

Yes I'm a bad person. But I want an Asp!

Nah, they say the people who took advantage are being looked at. This just applies specifically to the 50 or so massive refunds they accidentally did.

 

[Skyzard]

Hmm not sure I like 50 people who can pick up pimped anacondas and can wreck them against others without a care...

 

[Jedi2016]

Man, that ship calculator is sobering... A mid-kitted Asp is going to run me about 12M, fully kitted damn near 30M. FML.. lol.

 

[flyinpiranha]

Man, that ship calculator is sobering... A mid-kitted Asp is going to run me about 12M, fully kitted damn near 30M. FML.. lol.

Type 6 makes it go so fast though. Although "fast" is negotiable lol

 

[Kyoufu]

I just said fuck it and ordered the X52 Pro and a Rift. Should have an Asp by tomorrow too. Can't wait!

 

[Jedi2016]

Type 6 makes it go so fast though. Although "fast" is negotiable lol

Faster, yes.. lol. I don't know about "fast". I have a Type-6, but I won't be trading it in for the Asp. My Cobra will go away, but I don't think that's even worth 1M, so that won't help much. But I probably won't be getting rid of the Asp, so I'm free to fully upgrade it (over time). I'll probably pull the trigger when I have about 10M in the bank.

 

[plasticpassion]

Okay someone please help me. My ship is stuck in a spin. I am fully repaired but no matter what I do, my ship literally just spins to the right. I have to tilt my joystick to the left to counter this.

I tried using mouse and keyboard instead of my saitek x52 and it is still doing this. Anyone know how to fix this?

Edit: nvm fixed it by exiting repeatedly, unplugging the saitek, resetting controls, etc

 

[MisterMac]

Got a question, if I trade my Cobra in for a Sidewinder, do I get the credits back that I'd normally get if I traded my Cobra towards a bigger ship?

I'm thinking of starting over to get a new name and fix my feddie power but I'm just not driving the Sidewinder again, so I wanna sell my Cobra, transfer all my money into palladium, then dump it for my brother to pick up and give back to me so I can buy a new Cobra immediately on my new Commander.

 

[GeoGonzo]

Got a question, if I trade my Cobra in for a Sidewinder, do I get the credits back that I'd normally get if I traded my Cobra towards a bigger ship?

I'm thinking of starting over to get a new name and fix my feddie power but I'm just not driving the Sidewinder again, so I wanna sell my Cobra, transfer all my money into palladium, then dump it for my brother to pick up and give back to me so I can buy a new Cobra immediately on my new Commander.

That would work, but keep in mind:
- You'll end up with stolen palladium, which you'll have to sell at a black market. Consider meeting on an outpost instead of a station.
- If you've bought any upgrades for the Cobra go back into outfitting and sell them/replace them with cheaper pieces, since you get 100% back from outfitting but only 90% back when selling the ship.

 

[Dougald]

Didn't I spy a Jettison(Abandon) as well as the standard Jettison option for cargo? I assume that would prevent it from showing as stolen, but I've never tested it..

Frontier really needs to allow credit transfers.

 

[GeoGonzo]

Didn't I spy a Jettison(Abandon) as well as the standard Jettison option for cargo? I assume that would prevent it from showing as stolen, but I've never tested it..

Frontier really needs to allow credit transfers.

Yup, it must be nearly the top of the list. Its weird to see an MMO without trading between players.

If I were MisterMac I think I'd take a slightly longer but more efficient way to transfer the money: have his brother pick up pirate quests "fetch X, must be stolen", then buy and drop the cargo for him. His brother could get some decent money, buy a Viper and then simply let MisterMac "killsteal" some wanted ships from the sidewinder. He could make his money back fairly quickly and his brother would still have a Viper.

 

[Ronnie]

Okay someone please help me. My ship is stuck in a spin. I am fully repaired but no matter what I do, my ship literally just spins to the right. I have to tilt my joystick to the left to counter this.

I tried using mouse and keyboard instead of my saitek x52 and it is still doing this. Anyone know how to fix this?

Edit: nvm fixed it by exiting repeatedly, unplugging the saitek, resetting controls, etc

Sounds like you accidentally switched flight assist off

 

[mitchman]

That would work, but keep in mind:
- You'll end up with stolen palladium, which you'll have to sell at a black market. Consider meeting on an outpost instead of a station.
- If you've bought any upgrades for the Cobra go back into outfitting and sell them/replace them with cheaper pieces, since you get 100% back from outfitting but only 90% back when selling the ship.

Didn't I spy a Jettison(Abandon) as well as the standard Jettison option for cargo? I assume that would prevent it from showing as stolen, but I've never tested it..

Frontier really needs to allow credit transfers.

Yes, abandon cargo is not marked as stolen and is the only way to transfer money between players right now.

 

[flyinpiranha]

Faster, yes.. lol. I don't know about "fast". I have a Type-6, but I won't be trading it in for the Asp. My Cobra will go away, but I don't think that's even worth 1M, so that won't help much. But I probably won't be getting rid of the Asp, so I'm free to fully upgrade it (over time). I'll probably pull the trigger when I have about 10M in the bank.

Yeah, I have a fully upgraded Asp and it negates the need for a T6. Even has more Cargo with shields. I think the Asp is a great trader/fighter until you get to a Clipper or T7, I'm probably going Clipper, I really didn't enjoy the T6 at all, it got me where I needed to be for sure though. I'm actually thinking of just saving up so I can keep the Asp and the Clipper, just not sure.

I know I could double my profits right now with the trade in value on the Asp netting a T7 with a little upgrade money ... but I've heard it's terrible to drive. Whereas the Clipper, while more expensive to 'use' (I think) seems to have a ton of cargo AND fun to drive and have some decent weapon loadouts. Kind of like the next step to the Asp.

I always figure if I really want to bounty hunt I can just buy a decked out Cobra and use that with little consequence. But I like trading in big fancy ships, the only thing that keeps me from the clipper is the most expensive scoop is pricey, and the cost of fuel skyrockets. I really don't get why the same fuel costs 'more' for the bigger ships, I guess it's not the 'same' or something.

Edit: And the most important part: DAT VIEW!

 

[Haluko]

Warning to everyone. I wouldn't suggest trying to explore too far. Ive been exploring for about 7 days now. I was 16,000ly from sol and about 9,000ly from the center of the the galactic core when I crashed while in a jump... now the game just hangs on loading.

Once you get out pretty far you start to crash on 1 out of 4 jumps. Its really buggy.

Now I have to wait to see what they will do to fix me

 

[Mengy]

Warning to everyone. I wouldn't suggest trying to explore too far. Ive been exploring for about 7 days now. I was 16,000ly from sol and about 9,000ly from the center of the the galactic core when I crashed while in a jump... now the game just hangs on loading.

Once you get out pretty far you start to crash on 1 out of 4 jumps. Its really buggy.

Now I have to wait to see what they will do to fix me

Yeah, I've read about that on the official forums. They seem to think it's an issue with the server generating new systems for the first time, systems that have never been visited before, and particularly in the central star dense sectors. I've currently gone the other direction towards the outer arm of the solar system around the Pleiades Nebula and haven't experienced any issues yet myself. I'll be heading inwards though soon enough, hopefully they get it fixed soon.

 

[onken]

So I'm on my epic journey to the center of the galaxy and I'm now in the middle of bum-fuck nowhere, probably about 200ly from the last station and there is nothing out here and I mean nothing. Every system is just a single star - no planets, no stations, no platforms, nothing. I have my fuel scoop so can pretty much go on forever but is there some trick to finding populated systems?

 

[mitchman]

So I'm on my epic journey to the center of the galaxy and I'm now in the middle of bum-fuck nowhere, probably about 200ly from the last station and there is nothing out here and I mean nothing. Every system is just a single star - no planets, no stations, no platforms, nothing. I have my fuel scoop so can pretty much go on forever but is there some trick to finding populated systems?

There are no populated systems (with stations) once to move out of the bubble of 30k or so star systems. As I've said earlier, the 400 bn star system thing they advertise is not much more than a gimmick(*) until they add some more content.

* "In marketing language, a gimmick is a unique or quirky special feature that makes something "stand out" from its contemporaries. However, the special feature is typically thought to be of little relevance or use. Thus, a gimmick is a special feature for the sake of having a special feature. " - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimmick

 

[flyinpiranha]

So I'm on my epic journey to the center of the galaxy and I'm now in the middle of bum-fuck nowhere, probably about 200ly from the last station and there is nothing out here and I mean nothing. Every system is just a single star - no planets, no stations, no platforms, nothing. I have my fuel scoop so can pretty much go on forever but is there some trick to finding populated systems?

If you look at your Galaxy Map does it not show 'unvisited' systems that may have a population? Could use the slider to move it up a bit to make sure it's populated. I haven't done any exploring yet so unsure about if you go way out if there's any info on the map, or does that get populated as people find it/sell info?

 

[Shifty76]

Yeah, I have a fully upgraded Asp and it negates the need for a T6. Even has more Cargo with shields. I think the Asp is a great trader/fighter until you get to a Clipper or T7, I'm probably going Clipper, I really didn't enjoy the T6 at all, it got me where I needed to be for sure though. I'm actually thinking of just saving up so I can keep the Asp and the Clipper, just not sure.

I know I could double my profits right now with the trade in value on the Asp netting a T7 with a little upgrade money ... but I've heard it's terrible to drive. Whereas the Clipper, while more expensive to 'use' (I think) seems to have a ton of cargo AND fun to drive and have some decent weapon loadouts. Kind of like the next step to the Asp.

I always figure if I really want to bounty hunt I can just buy a decked out Cobra and use that with little consequence. But I like trading in big fancy ships, the only thing that keeps me from the clipper is the most expensive scoop is pricey, and the cost of fuel skyrockets. I really don't get why the same fuel costs 'more' for the bigger ships, I guess it's not the 'same' or something.

Edit: And the most important part: DAT VIEW!

Clipper has HORRID hardpoint placements. Even with gimballed you have a tough time hitting smaller targets. Python or bust after Asp.

 

[Kyoufu]

Clipper has HORRID hardpoint placements. Even with gimballed you have a tough time hitting smaller targets. Python or bust after Asp.

The issue for me is going to be the cargo space on Asp when grinding for something like a Python. I guess I'll have to get a Type 9 or something after Asp to make big 150 million trading grinds slightly less painful. :/

 

[flyinpiranha]

Clipper has HORRID hardpoint placements. Even with gimballed you have a tough time hitting smaller targets. Python or bust after Asp.

Ha was just reading this while trying to figure out "true" investment. Think I might bite the bullet and trade the Asp for a T7 and grind out some more.


Just not sure if I want to do that, may just do bounty hunting for a while lol.

Python has ridiculous running costs.

 

[onken]

There are no populated systems (with stations) once to move out of the bubble of 30k or so star systems. As I've said earlier, the 400 bn star system thing they advertise is not much more than a gimmick(*) until they add some more content.

* "In marketing language, a gimmick is a unique or quirky special feature that makes something "stand out" from its contemporaries. However, the special feature is typically thought to be of little relevance or use. Thus, a gimmick is a special feature for the sake of having a special feature. " - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimmick

This is such a crock ( I thought the whole point was that it was all randomly generated content with template stations, missions etc.

If you look at your Galaxy Map does it not show 'unvisited' systems that may have a population? Could use the slider to move it up a bit to make sure it's populated. I haven't done any exploring yet so unsure about if you go way out if there's any info on the map, or does that get populated as people find it/sell info?

Didn't know about the population filter. I cranked the minimum up by one sliver and sure enough every system within a 200ly radius is filtered out.

Man my desire to keep playing this game just dropped through the floor.

 

[flyinpiranha]

This is such a crock ( I thought the whole point was that it was all randomly generated content with template stations, missions etc.



Didn't know about the population filter. I cranked the minimum up by one sliver and sure enough every system within a 200ly radius is filtered out.

Man my desire to keep playing this game just dropped through the floor.

All the way out? I'm sure their 'algorithm' or w/e is used probably starts lowering the amount of populated systems as you get further out. I remember them saying the "outskirts" of space are going to be extremely lonely.

Sucks they aren't loading and such though.

Let me understand this though, eventually, ALL the systems will be "procedurally" generated content once a user triggers it to generate, then it's 'hard' data after that right? Of course not all 400 billion will ever get explored, but that's the system in place? Once I visit something nobody has ever seen, it generates some random solar system, then everybody who visits after that sees the same thing I saw?

 

[Mengy]

This is such a crock ( I thought the whole point was that it was all randomly generated content with template stations, missions etc.

Didn't know about the population filter. I cranked the minimum up by one sliver and sure enough every system within a 200ly radius is filtered out.

Man my desire to keep playing this game just dropped through the floor.

The idea is that inhabited space will expand over time, and alien civs will pop up elsewhere in the galaxy too. They've kept the populated sectors to one corner at the start to give themselves room to add other, more distinctive, things in the future.

Personally, as an explorer, I love that there is so much vacant space for us to explore.