I have also tried playing with trackball controls, and in the same way as letting the mouse go on my table would, it just feels pretty awkward.
But I will try it. In no way will I buy it just because, however.
Engadget: We hate Valve's Steam Controller because it's different
- Thread starter Crayon
- Start date
I have also tried playing with trackball controls, and in the same way as letting the mouse go on my table would, it just feels pretty awkward.
But I will try it. In no way will I buy it just because, however.
I've yet to try it so I'm neither right now, though I do want to try it
Sorry I wasn't clear on that, I was mainly commenting on why people dislike new controllers, if they don't like them just because they're new, and that is the only reason, then sure, that's a shame
If they just prefer something else, then I don't know why we have to tar those people with the "holding gaming back" brush
Like I said, I know a kb/m is better for FPS games, but I don't like it as much as a controller, clicking to shoot doesn't feel as good as pulling a trigger, and using WASD doesn't feel as good as a stick. That's my opinion, and my preference, and there isn't anything wrong with that
If people prefer sticks to a trackpad, then that's up to them, no one should be throwing their arms up petulantly and saying they're ruining gaming for everyone else because of that
You should not buy it just because, and I don't think I would advocate that for any product.I have also tried playing with trackball controls, and in the same way as letting the mouse go on my table would, it just feels pretty awkward.
But I will try it. In no way will I buy it just because, however.
TaintedHotSauce
Member
It's not designed for you. It's designed for those that want something better than a 360 controller for games that are ideal with a keyboard and mouse; for those that don't like keyboard and mouse, want an alternative to that, or want a controller suitable for playing those titles on the comfort of their couch.
You don't need it. But you might like it.
I play on the couch and KB/M don't work for me. So I need the Steam Controller. It also helps that it's far more accurate than a right analog stick for aiming
flyinpiranha
Member
This is the biggest problem. It's in the early stages. There aren't "defined" configurations for a lot of games, there are good ones, and creating your own is awesome (my fiance loves playing Divinity EE with me because she uses this and I use a G13/KB/M combo).
But, I remember the Dualshock being 'cumbersome' with those "Resident Evil sticks" back in the day. It is an adjustment and I do think in a year the landscape will be different ... if it takes off.
I personally LOVE it for camera control over a stick, it's so much better.
You don't, but I like it more than a 360 controller. I will most likely buy another one so we can play together with the controller. For some games I still enjoy M/KB but it's a great device. I didn't "need" it either, much like I don't "need" 99% of the videogame related stuff I purchase.
Keyboards are terrible for racing games, fighting games, 3D/2d platformers, and so on
Just saw this from the Controller OT, from someone who spent lots of time with it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaTxJznbMxo&feature=youtu.be&a
If this guy had it rough, what can you expect from the everyday casual gamer...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaTxJznbMxo&feature=youtu.be&a
If this guy had it rough, what can you expect from the everyday casual gamer...
Mr. Nice_Guy
Member
Seconded. I tried playing some fighters with nothing but a keyboard once to see what it was like and it was beyond unintuitive. Although I was impressed how consistently moves were coming out using just the arrow keys.
I haven't had the chance to try one yet, but I am not against the idea of the track pad. I can imagine it feeling feeling unusual at first though.
Balmung421
Member
Pretty cool he is taking the ad money that he made from his steam controller videos and putting it to charity. For those that can't watch the video, he was one of the bigger content creators that was testing the steam controller well before the public had their hands on it. Even had the original beta controller, too.
I completely understand his frustrations with the controller, and it is funny how Fallout 4 ended up being the final straw for both of us.
It may be unintuitive, but keyboard is the most precise fighting game input. That's why hitboxes were created.
Chairmanchuck
Member
I dont have the controller (yet), but wasnt it actually advertised as a controller that lets you play traditional kb/m games on the big screen and not really as a substitute for the traditional controllers?
I mean that is why I preordered it.
Does that work fine? Like playing Visual novels, games like Civ etc. comfortably on my TV.
I mean that is why I preordered it.
Does that work fine? Like playing Visual novels, games like Civ etc. comfortably on my TV.
Works perfectly for that. Playing a game like Civ is a joy.
ashecitism
Member
It was advertised (if you can call what Valve has been doing as such) to make any Steam game playable from the couch. But yes, mouse driven games work fine from the impressions. Only issues can be the UI.
Chairmanchuck
Member
Yeah. But I mean they showed off mostly mouse driven games in their inital video (Civ in that case) as well as Portal 2 as a FPS and when they talked about it, they said it over and over again, that a normal controller is hard for mouse driven games.
To me it seemed that they were aiming for that from the beginning instead of being a substitute for the normal controllers.
Mister Zimbu
Member
My impressions:
In general, I've found that using the trackpads as analog sticks don't work nearly as well as real analog sticks, but works ok. Using the right trackpad as a mouse camera is awesome though if a game supports it. Face buttons being tiny and in the wrong place make them difficult to use, especially in a game where you're constantly going between camera and having to hit specific buttons like FFXIV.
Likewise, the trackpad is the best I've used for heavy mouse-oriented games like Diablo, but not nearly as well as KB+M. I certainly wouldn't trust my hardcore character to the Steam Controller. Haven't played an FPS for more than a few seconds- and when I did it was Quake Arena, which probably isn't the best suited game to the controller- so I don't really have good impressions on that. Trackpad buttons take way too much force to click, while "tap" mode doesn't feel right either.
For me the controller is too uncomfortable to use for anything beyond the shortest periods of time. My hands are getting tired after about an hour of use. Overall, I'm not regretting my purchase, and it's a fun toy to play around with, but for just about any game I play, there's always a better device I'd prefer to use instead.
In general, I've found that using the trackpads as analog sticks don't work nearly as well as real analog sticks, but works ok. Using the right trackpad as a mouse camera is awesome though if a game supports it. Face buttons being tiny and in the wrong place make them difficult to use, especially in a game where you're constantly going between camera and having to hit specific buttons like FFXIV.
Likewise, the trackpad is the best I've used for heavy mouse-oriented games like Diablo, but not nearly as well as KB+M. I certainly wouldn't trust my hardcore character to the Steam Controller. Haven't played an FPS for more than a few seconds- and when I did it was Quake Arena, which probably isn't the best suited game to the controller- so I don't really have good impressions on that. Trackpad buttons take way too much force to click, while "tap" mode doesn't feel right either.
For me the controller is too uncomfortable to use for anything beyond the shortest periods of time. My hands are getting tired after about an hour of use. Overall, I'm not regretting my purchase, and it's a fun toy to play around with, but for just about any game I play, there's always a better device I'd prefer to use instead.
ashecitism
Member
In the announcement page they specifically name dropped Euro Truck Sim 2 as being playable. And that video was a first in a series that never continued, because Valve being Valve. At trade shows they were demoing games like Strider and Trine on it. In the trailer they showed games like Assault Android Cactus and TW3.
Chairmanchuck
Member
Oh. So those dont play that good?
oneils
Member
Ehhh, it's valves job to convince us to use it and they have done a pretty bad job at it. The thing costs 50 bucks and is not bundled with my PC like a dual shock controller is bundled with the ps4. Valve was always going to have an uphill climb trying to convince us to buy it. We aren't necessarily resistant to change so much as not convinced that 50 dollars is worth the change. I mean, this is a failure of marketing and not a failure of the consumer.
Edit: in other words, I believe that people who dismiss it out of hand as unnecessary or or jus say "nope" are really using shorthand to say that this is not worth the 50 dollar risk for me.
ashecitism
Member
I don't know how they play, since I don't own the controller. I'm just saying Valve's messaging wasn't that this controlelr was specifically built for mouse driven games like Civ. It was an universal solution from the get-go.
It is a universal solution. Whether or not players prefer it is up for debate. But it works universally.
People hated their initial reveals but when they finally launched everybody dug the Wii and DS. It's the inverse of what happening to the Steam Controller. Critics didn't give the Wii a 5.9.
Hardcore gamers criticized the Wii's software library and graphics capability more than the control method themselves. They were more than happy to play hardcore titles that made use of the hardware like Twilight Princess, Metroid Prime Corruption, Mario Galaxy, etc etc. Same with the DS.
Crayon
Member
It would be valve's job to convince us. But I don't think they really care to. They might be onto something. Marketing is expensive. Maybe not worth the money. They just made the best product they could, and went with the very simple message of "it's available to buy, it lets you play games". This is a very old fashioned approach. Maybe it can work for valve. I happen to believe that this marketing approach has as much or more to do with the negativity as the fear of change.
The Elite
BOSS
Right now the controller seems to be geared towards a hobbyist market. The lack of a marketing campaign reflects that. They will let the hobbyists tinker with it, create templates for controls, and give criticism. Valve will take that data and make something better that they can market to a larger audience.
It's that simple.
It's that simple.
levyjl1988
Banned
We already have the perfect controller and that is the Xbox One Elite Controller.
Agent Gibbs
Member
I love my steam controller, my only gripe is the D-pad, but i think half of that is not configuring it right - but then the community profiles are awesome, given time and enough of them i really see no reason not to have a steam controller
but in the words of Marty McFly "i guess you guys weren't ready for that yet, but your kids will love it"
but in the words of Marty McFly "i guess you guys weren't ready for that yet, but your kids will love it"
The Shadow
Member
Wish there was a place I could try it out first. $49 is a lot to drop on something I might hate from the get-go.
I...completely stand by this? Unless you're talking about things that aren't comparable to the Steam Controller (you don't like how Hummers look or you aren't a fan of the kind of emissions they put out), this holds up 100%. You can't say you hate how a hummer drives or handles if you've never driven or handled one. You don't have that information. You're making things up.
And it is incredibly stupid to hate hummers simply because your prefer to drive a Prius. Preference for one thing does not make another thing bad.
Bboy AJ
My dog was murdered by a 3.5mm audio port and I will not rest until the standard is dead
I finally got my controller today. It's very different and difficult to use. But I'm sticking with it. I'm glad a company is doing something new. The PlayStation controller was used 3 generations in a row. Absolutely weak.
Not trying to be combative, but do you remember the word "waggle"? The word widely used to disparage and dismiss motion controls? Do you remember when the Wii remote was first shown off? The amount of negativity was ENORMOUS. Instead of being curious of what could be with something new, many many gamers dug in and become more conservative about what even makes a game a game. That conservatism will lead to death through stagnation. The industry needs to keep innovating on the control front. Apparently most gamers would rather be dragged, kicking and screaming, into the future.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
TyrantGuardian
Member
Yeah I'll get back to you once I win a few games of csgo and dota 2 with that one. Perfect indeed.
Exactly. For me, Steampad is the perfect companion. Finally allowing me to play all the games that are out of reach because I am a front room gamer.
I'll play Fallout 4 on XB pad because it feels wonderfully optimised for it. I'll dive into Mass Effect, Planetside, a multitude of others on Steampad because they are locked off to me.
Sure, there will be a learning process. But I found that when booting up RE4 on PC recently. Because it doesn't conform to the homogenised fps/tps shooter control template, I had a right struggle as I unlearnt using the right stick for move camera, getting my head around going into an aim stance. Fully expect this to be the same. Why confirm to a console standard input method when it is not meant to be?
I sincerely get a kick out of seeing so many people struggle with change. In every time, in every industry, there is that hilarious, vocal contingent of folks who simply will not accept the future.
What a terribly depressing thought.
The Elite
BOSS
I picked it up even though I said I was going to wait. It worked fine for Fallout 4 using Bethesda's official settings. I tried it in Black Ops 2 and lol, this thing needs some work. I feel like each game you try that doesn't have official settings will be a battle to get the controls just right. It's frustrating and people should be upset that people are frustrated or not interested in the device. It's a very niche hobbyist controller right now.
It works perfectly for what it does.
It works perfectly for what it does.
Visualante2
Member
I'm really torn about picking one of these up for my game. Obviously I want to support everyone's preferred set up. However I feel like my focus should remain on the 360 pad. It's a modern take on arcade maze games so a stick is really inherent to that. I listened to Tim Rogers talk about it on insert credit yesterday. He seems into it so I guess VIDEOBALL is probably going to work with it.
Ehh, I'm not sure. With that logic, we would still be using a d pad with 2 buttons.
The steam controller is the most fun I've had with a controller since the N64 controller. That doesn't mean it's the best controller for the job, but it means that it's the first truly unique controller experience I've had in a long time. Maybe aside from the Wii, but my issue with the Wii was merely that it tackled a large problem with a small solution that didn't scale well as more precision was desired.
I'm still using it every time I game but milage may vary. Because of the length of time and dedication needed to perfect your bindings, I think playing one game for a long time is better than trying to play every game in your library in a month.
Though it should be said that, having looked through the bindings that currently exist on the community, the controller's biggest issue is that it is really easy to let the user accidentally make a bad experience for herself. My thoughts are that many people make these "High Idea" bindings which use every feature under the sun, or try to make heavy use of mode shifting, or have some strange experiments where the pads are used to swap the movement view around for lefties, etc.
My point is that many bindings can be made simpler by focusing on simple concepts, and making use of multi button binding to double up the usage for a button. For example, in skyrim I double bound enter and space to the a button, which has no game play effect and gives you a way simpler interface for navigating menus and the like without having to resort to crazy mode shifting or super experimental track pad settings.
To put it simply, designing a configuration should really follow the "Keep It Simple, Stupid" mentality.
Speaking of which, I actually suggest some people spend some time playing without haptic feedback on the track pad for mouse movement and see how it feels. Some friends of mine performed better and felt a lot better about the controller when it was disabled, probably because the haptics can sometimes be so good that it becomes distracting. I have been playing with it disabled myself and while I do like the hatics for some reasons, I find that people haven't shared stories of people who prefer to have it disabled.
On PC it is fundamentally "broken".
You can't play entire genres of games, most of which are the most popular genres of game on the PC. Not to mention a complete failure of traditional controllers to play well in the games that need you to be competitive against mouse and keyboard.
In the end, the whole point of the Steam Controller is being able to play all the PC games when a mouse and keyboard are not practical - ie the lounge - or when a standard gamepad fails to be competitive - PC FPS in particular.
Traditional controllers are largely broken. Analog sticks are a terrible form of input for most genres. Game design had to suffer to make it playable.
I welcome a controller with absolute positioning, whose ability to emulate a mouse, with far greater precision and speed than analog sticks, might finally not hold back game or interface design. It's not a replacement for mouse and keyboard, but for those who wish to use a controller, I can't think of a better alternative.
I picked one of these up last night out of curiosity.... And I must say, I just drank the Kool-aid! I love love love tweaking games to work precisely to my liking. Got Fallout 4 set up and I am really digging it. When I get home from work I'm going to play with Resident Evil Revelations 2 and Wolfenstein. Gyro aiming is the best and I'm frankly shocked at how well the track pads work for me. Like, I want to buy these things as Christmas gifts for everyone I know with a pc, haha.
That being said, I understand people who don't quite love it or see the appeal. I was an old curmudgeon who wanted to move with face buttons and aim with the left stick, N64 style for a long time after dual analog came around. Like, I was seriously worried about MGS4 making me play that way. I also used the RE4 control scheme in RE5! So again, I get it.
That being said, I understand people who don't quite love it or see the appeal. I was an old curmudgeon who wanted to move with face buttons and aim with the left stick, N64 style for a long time after dual analog came around. Like, I was seriously worried about MGS4 making me play that way. I also used the RE4 control scheme in RE5! So again, I get it.
Console gamers may not realize how limiting console controllers are, because they do not have access to the countless games which do not work on those controllers. They are stuck inside that box. They can only play games that are designed within the limitations of whatever input they are using.
Seeing console gamers complain about touchscreen controls is a little like seeing PC gamers complain about dual analog controls.
I'm not married to the idea of the steam controller, yet, but it definitely fills a gap.
I play at my desk, but absolutely hate the ergonomics of using mouse and keyboard.
I want to lean back and kick my feet up while gaming. There are certain genres where there is not a good control method for that.
Theoretically, the steam controller fills that need.
If dual analog "worked perfectly for what it does", we wouldn't have had a continued trend of dumbing down of 1st/3rd person games over the last 15 years, where the majority of vertical aiming/movement has been toned down or stripped out to accomodate a slow input device. Funnily enough Splatoon has tons of height variation in its maps which is nicely aided by the gyro controls, allowing for map design closer in line with a 90s PC title than the relatively flat terrain in modern multiplatform shooters. If Sony or MS replaced their right analog stick with the Steam Controller's right trackpad half of GAF would suddenly be all aboard the thing, but they will only approve of change if it's mandated by their platform of choice.
I've had a Steam Controller since the early bird preorders were fulfilled and, while Valve's marketing of the device has been poor, the ongoing experience in terms of using the device as well as post-release support has easily been worth the trade-off for me. A huge amount of user feedback on forums and emails has been implemented in firmware and software within days of being suggested. The controller itself is also easily superior as an aiming device compared to any other controller on the market, and also enables previously desktop-exclusive genres to be played from the couch, which has been almost worth the price in itself.
99% of issues I've experienced are of the same kind I've experienced with PC games historically: developer oversight in the form of allowing only one method of user input (exclusive gamepad or exclusive keyboard/mouse) and arbitrary button config issues with the game software rather than the controller. In other words, the same kind of implementation issues that gave us arbitrary framerate/resolution locks, etc. Needless to say these can be easily overcome once developers support the controller natively, start including Steam controller icons, remove exclusive gamepad/keyboard modes, etc.
Yeah, people were cold to the idea of a graphically weak system with an odd controller. Then it came out and everyone loved it. I don't care about your waggle anecdotes, for every "waggle lmao" shitpost I've read five posts from hardcore gamers saying how there's potential with the Wii Remote. Okay, that too is a shitty anecdote but how about this: Resident Evil 4 on the Wii sold two million copies, that is a hardcore game that hardcore gamers thought "Man, this would play great on the Wii's setup!"
Regardless of how the Steam Controller was initially received, it doesn't matter because the reception now is that it's kinda bad.
Man, it's like if the Wii's control setup was intuitive while the Steam Controller is the KFC Food Bowl of controllers.
If your argument for the Steam Controller is that if you force yourself to use it constantly for two weeks straight you'll get use to it, then the steam controller has a problem because seriously who fucking has time for that nonsense. It's like telling someone they'll have a better musical experience if they learned how to play real guitar instead of Rockband.
Odrion, you are taking your ability to use traditional controllers for granted. Pick someone off the street who has not used a console before and have them figure one of those things out in any kind of relatively complex game. Remember how simple controllers used to be? Each generation gets a little bit more complex, so that features are on a kind of drip feed. But this allows long-term gamers to adjust pretty easily to new improvements. The Steam controller is a big change from traditional controllers, but to a non-gamer it is no more foreign. There may be a point to be made there, but saying it is a failure because it takes a while to adjust to it is off the mark.
Cherry picking "hardcore" gamer praise for the wiimote as examples of its strengths over the steam controller is also being disingenuous. There are plenty of gamers praising the Steam controller as well. You don't have ground to stand on here.
Cherry picking "hardcore" gamer praise for the wiimote as examples of its strengths over the steam controller is also being disingenuous. There are plenty of gamers praising the Steam controller as well. You don't have ground to stand on here.
……forgetit
Member
Trackpad seems great for aiming and for anything that needs a point and click to me, anything else....nah