Considering I had the first PvP war and Ming right next door, I wouldnt consider my past self "lonely", but I agree that I would put Fitz above my progress as well.
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Europa Universalis IV MP Community Thread of Hotjoining for Glory
- Thread starter Toma
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Considering I had the first PvP war and Ming right next door, I wouldnt consider my past self "lonely", but I agree that I would put Fitz above my progress as well.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Kabouter, is that a summary of how good each nation's position is absolutely, or how well each player has played relatively? I feel if it's the former, it's probably reasonably accurate, but if it's the latter it doesn't describe the situation very well.
Regardless, I'm not moving to North America. Half the fun of Europa Universalis is the historical plausibility behind it, the sense of "what if". Yes, I could probably move to North America quite easily, by releasing Pskov as a vassal who'll then buy all my Russian provinces from me, then super-blob on the North American continent. But that would be... admitting defeat. That's just minimax play - sure, it'd probably lead me closest to "winning", in the narrow sense of the word that means having a big army/income/etc. It doesn't lead me closest to what I want to do - establish a Novgorodian Russia, from Russia, as Novgorod.
EDIT: also I'm totally in a better position than Mali, c'mon.
Regardless, I'm not moving to North America. Half the fun of Europa Universalis is the historical plausibility behind it, the sense of "what if". Yes, I could probably move to North America quite easily, by releasing Pskov as a vassal who'll then buy all my Russian provinces from me, then super-blob on the North American continent. But that would be... admitting defeat. That's just minimax play - sure, it'd probably lead me closest to "winning", in the narrow sense of the word that means having a big army/income/etc. It doesn't lead me closest to what I want to do - establish a Novgorodian Russia, from Russia, as Novgorod.
EDIT: also I'm totally in a better position than Mali, c'mon.
How every player has done relative to their starting position, which is why nations like Spain, which are very strong even now, are low down. It is not a measure of relative current strength, that would be completely different. Then Hedjaz would be near the bottom for instance.
True, but you reached them after greatly expanding (or am I completely misremembering the situation at the start her?). Anyways, you two have been the best players for this round without a doubt, so congrats for that!
I hate you all
Lol, why so? Now you are the underdog for next game! (that totally should start soon btw)
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
In that case I feel that summation of how I did is waaay too harsh. Novgorod has a really difficult start - Muscowy declares war essentially straight away, just as they did in this session. It's not as bad as Wallachia or Grenada, but it's probably in the realms of Byzantium, just different - Byzantium takes a million loans to build a fleet large enough to shut off the straits, Novogord takes a million loans to build a merc army large enough to attrition Muscowy to death. I was winning my initial Muscowy war before the AI White Peaced me out for no gains and changed my religion, putting me in a really difficult position and forcing me to focus on religious rebels for almost 25 years. Had it not been for that, Muscowy would probably not be around any more, or at least much smaller. Even given that start, which didn't go particularly well, I've managed to take Pskov, Lithuania, large parts of Norway and hit the Americas, which is about as much as I can do now that Muscowy is unmanageable. The only real ways I could have done better is a) Westernizing better, which I was going to do before the AI burnt all the dip points I'd been saving to tank by dip tech and zerg rush the Americas, or b) taking stuff from wink while he was down, or from Cazz, which doesn't really seem to me to be a long-run gain compared to having relatively secure borders.
I feel the only significant mistake I made was immediately attacking Muscowy after the AI had spent my points and I couldn't Westernize. That was really poor play, but at the time I was frustrated I'd been set back so much and really just wanted to do something instead of sitting around for another two decades. Really shouldn't have done that.
EDIT: Oh, and taking Defender of the Faith when I did. That set me back just under 12 years, judging by Reformation start. That was also a poor move. Those two were really the big mistakes. Every else just comes from "being Muscowy's neighbour".
I wasn't sure how you were affected by the AI, but yes, given that information, I should have ranked you higher. I will edit. I still say you should screw the RPing and go North American though
.Just want to remind that me and Kabouter are not trying to be rude or say that Novgorod or any other nations are played by bad players or anything. I think Kabouter have a good reason for putting Novgorod near the botton, which is that you are now at muscovys mercy.
I also find it interesting how members that are technically very good players, like the already mentioned Fanboi, seems in some cases to have done worse than players that dont really knows the game-systems in and out. Unfortunately gives me also less motivation to finally learn how to properly manage my trade, when to use mercs and so on.
I also find it interesting how members that are technically very good players, like the already mentioned Fanboi, seems in some cases to have done worse than players that dont really knows the game-systems in and out. Unfortunately gives me also less motivation to finally learn how to properly manage my trade, when to use mercs and so on.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
This is the way I saw relative play (so, how well you did compared to how good your start position was):
S Tier - almost perfect play
1. Naples/Fitz/Colkate - Essentially flawless. Negotiated the Italian problem relatively well, destroyed a Lucky Nation Ottoman Empire (even if this was pre-patch), has managed to set up a relatively safe area of expansion into the Middle East, compared to most other European nations which are now locked off, etc. Basically no flaws.
2. Viyajanagar/Toma - Basically the same as above in terms of almost no problems with play, just in the context of not really having the same competition, especially now Ming is gone. If the Westernization goes fully successfully, definitely pushing Fitz for the top spot.
A Tier - excellent play
3. Sardinia-Piedmont/Savoy/Morfeo - Savoy has a really nice start, probably the best of the Italian nations, but even so Morfeo's done a fantastic job with it. A missed chance with colonization, I feel - with Spain relatively inactive and (at that point) an uncontested West African coast (Morocco would be easily enough deterred with Western troops) meant a missed chance to hit a relatively empty America. Very few problems, only a gap between Morfeo and Fitz/toma because the latter both have set up clear paths of expansion whereas Morfeo has boxed himself in, perhaps unnecessarily.
4. Venice/Archenemesis - a harder start than Savoy, admittedly, but played nearly as well. Even more boxed in than Savoy, though, which is the major reason for losing out. Admittedly, could expand relatively easily into Austria, but I'm less convinced than some this would be a good idea. Austria currently acts as a lodestone to Italian politics. If Austria falls and Venice and Sardinia-Piedmont both start expanding upwards, it's very rapidly going to upset the tenuous balance of power in Italy which has allowed the Italian nations to do so well in the first place.
5. Japan/Hosokawa/Mgo - While like Fitz, Mgo benefited from pre-patch mechanics a little (Japan's now a somewhat nastier environment), excellent play. Somewhat frustrated by Kabouter while he was there, but that gap is now wide open. Could perhaps have pressed his advantage a little more against Ming in the last war.
B Tier - good play
6. Hedjaz/Sickboy - Hedjaz has done well in uniting the Arabian peninsula, that's no mean accomplishment. However, that position has been exploited perhaps to full extent - Africa (and colonization in general) really hasn't been particularly competitive this game. There was definitely more room for expansion and resultant trade monopolization.
7. Ming/Kabouter - Kabouter was doing really well, but quit.
8. Morocco/Mleuigi - Benefiting very much from the fact that the European powers are either occupied or not fully utilizing their strength (particularly Castile/Spain). Having said that, has definitely made hay while the sun shines, with the rapid colonization of Brazil. Definitely should be looking more towards gearing Morocco up for a greater role in the Mediterranean, though - while expansion has been good now, it might get tricky if Spain or Sardinia-Piedmont decide to use Morocco as a potential route of expansion.
9. Novgorod/Crab - Generally speaking has planned out a strategy that works well, but, when things depart from the plan, makes rash decisions. Given that, has done reasonably well - particularly the annexation of Pskov from under Muscowy's nose and the vassalization of Norway leading to America, but impatience has caused a lot of troubles, particularly in the religious sphere that has wasted some potential progress. Hasn't set up a particularly good expansion plan, though, which is going to prove damaging.
C Tier - reasonable play
10. Scotland/Mali/Rug Monkey - Made good gains as Scotland, got ruined by AI, was unable to secure his advantage. A better safety plan such as greater Irish holdings might have helped Rug's position, but it's difficult to say. Did little as Mali.
11. Poland/Manik/Cazz - Has definitely made gains, but not really the gains you'd expect - i.e., Sweden and not Lithuania, Crimean territory but not Wallachia. The losses are all regain-able, given Lithuania has the same dynasty and Moldovia should be relatively weak, so not really losses in the true sense of the word, but definitely delays to growth. Probably the main problem is the MIL tech in comparison to the neighbours - much like fanboi below, the wealth and manpower is there but the troops aren't there to back it. In a good position at the moment, though - winning the war with Lithuania, making a lot of money thanks to Protestantism and wealthy German provinces near Brandenburg, and in a position to claim lots of territory in the near future.
12. Burgundy/Fanboi - Hasn't really shown the growth you might expect, probably due to early over-aggression leading to poor teching. Appears (?) to have the money, given the trade node control and potential for cheap mercenaries, but that's not much use when your army is shit. Given the current state of the Holy Roman Empire, definitely could have expanded more that way.
13. Spain/Castille/Face/Sir Digby - Probably under-performed compared to AI Castile, but then is new, so that's not terrible. Basically did what Castile does (i.e., form Spain laughably easily thanks to the Iberian Marriage event), but should have more colonial presence and not have kept losing stuff to Grenada. Showing progress. EDIT: Discovered this was in fact due to AI ineptitude. My deepest sympathies.
D Tier - poor play
14. Denmark/Sweden/Georgia/Wink - Sweden shouldn't lose that badly to Denmark, that was really catastrophic. Then, given the much larger Denmark resulting, hasn't done much with it, although admittedly is facing a large number of loans and so on to deal with. The fact Lubeck isn't under Danish control yet is puzzling, given how much having control of Lubeck means for finances.
15. Austria/Wallachia/KingSnake - Poor Austria.
S Tier - almost perfect play
1. Naples/Fitz/Colkate - Essentially flawless. Negotiated the Italian problem relatively well, destroyed a Lucky Nation Ottoman Empire (even if this was pre-patch), has managed to set up a relatively safe area of expansion into the Middle East, compared to most other European nations which are now locked off, etc. Basically no flaws.
2. Viyajanagar/Toma - Basically the same as above in terms of almost no problems with play, just in the context of not really having the same competition, especially now Ming is gone. If the Westernization goes fully successfully, definitely pushing Fitz for the top spot.
A Tier - excellent play
3. Sardinia-Piedmont/Savoy/Morfeo - Savoy has a really nice start, probably the best of the Italian nations, but even so Morfeo's done a fantastic job with it. A missed chance with colonization, I feel - with Spain relatively inactive and (at that point) an uncontested West African coast (Morocco would be easily enough deterred with Western troops) meant a missed chance to hit a relatively empty America. Very few problems, only a gap between Morfeo and Fitz/toma because the latter both have set up clear paths of expansion whereas Morfeo has boxed himself in, perhaps unnecessarily.
4. Venice/Archenemesis - a harder start than Savoy, admittedly, but played nearly as well. Even more boxed in than Savoy, though, which is the major reason for losing out. Admittedly, could expand relatively easily into Austria, but I'm less convinced than some this would be a good idea. Austria currently acts as a lodestone to Italian politics. If Austria falls and Venice and Sardinia-Piedmont both start expanding upwards, it's very rapidly going to upset the tenuous balance of power in Italy which has allowed the Italian nations to do so well in the first place.
5. Japan/Hosokawa/Mgo - While like Fitz, Mgo benefited from pre-patch mechanics a little (Japan's now a somewhat nastier environment), excellent play. Somewhat frustrated by Kabouter while he was there, but that gap is now wide open. Could perhaps have pressed his advantage a little more against Ming in the last war.
B Tier - good play
6. Hedjaz/Sickboy - Hedjaz has done well in uniting the Arabian peninsula, that's no mean accomplishment. However, that position has been exploited perhaps to full extent - Africa (and colonization in general) really hasn't been particularly competitive this game. There was definitely more room for expansion and resultant trade monopolization.
7. Ming/Kabouter - Kabouter was doing really well, but quit.
8. Morocco/Mleuigi - Benefiting very much from the fact that the European powers are either occupied or not fully utilizing their strength (particularly Castile/Spain). Having said that, has definitely made hay while the sun shines, with the rapid colonization of Brazil. Definitely should be looking more towards gearing Morocco up for a greater role in the Mediterranean, though - while expansion has been good now, it might get tricky if Spain or Sardinia-Piedmont decide to use Morocco as a potential route of expansion.
9. Novgorod/Crab - Generally speaking has planned out a strategy that works well, but, when things depart from the plan, makes rash decisions. Given that, has done reasonably well - particularly the annexation of Pskov from under Muscowy's nose and the vassalization of Norway leading to America, but impatience has caused a lot of troubles, particularly in the religious sphere that has wasted some potential progress. Hasn't set up a particularly good expansion plan, though, which is going to prove damaging.
C Tier - reasonable play
10. Scotland/Mali/Rug Monkey - Made good gains as Scotland, got ruined by AI, was unable to secure his advantage. A better safety plan such as greater Irish holdings might have helped Rug's position, but it's difficult to say. Did little as Mali.
11. Poland/Manik/Cazz - Has definitely made gains, but not really the gains you'd expect - i.e., Sweden and not Lithuania, Crimean territory but not Wallachia. The losses are all regain-able, given Lithuania has the same dynasty and Moldovia should be relatively weak, so not really losses in the true sense of the word, but definitely delays to growth. Probably the main problem is the MIL tech in comparison to the neighbours - much like fanboi below, the wealth and manpower is there but the troops aren't there to back it. In a good position at the moment, though - winning the war with Lithuania, making a lot of money thanks to Protestantism and wealthy German provinces near Brandenburg, and in a position to claim lots of territory in the near future.
12. Burgundy/Fanboi - Hasn't really shown the growth you might expect, probably due to early over-aggression leading to poor teching. Appears (?) to have the money, given the trade node control and potential for cheap mercenaries, but that's not much use when your army is shit. Given the current state of the Holy Roman Empire, definitely could have expanded more that way.
13. Spain/Castille/Face/Sir Digby - Probably under-performed compared to AI Castile, but then is new, so that's not terrible. Basically did what Castile does (i.e., form Spain laughably easily thanks to the Iberian Marriage event), but should have more colonial presence and not have kept losing stuff to Grenada. Showing progress.
EDIT: Discovered this was in fact due to AI ineptitude. My deepest sympathies.D Tier - poor play
14. Denmark/Sweden/Georgia/Wink - Sweden shouldn't lose that badly to Denmark, that was really catastrophic. Then, given the much larger Denmark resulting, hasn't done much with it, although admittedly is facing a large number of loans and so on to deal with. The fact Lubeck isn't under Danish control yet is puzzling, given how much having control of Lubeck means for finances.
15. Austria/Wallachia/KingSnake - Poor Austria.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
And Kab, I refuse. It's a matter of pride now. There can be only one Russia.
It's a matter of pride now. There can be only one Russia.Lol what have i started
Yeah, I don't agree that you're boxed in, your empire might not be contiguous for now, but you are expanding quite swiftly within the HRE. No cause for concern there.
As rightly pointed out, my early expansion was largely thanks to the pre-1.2 AI's inability to deal with blocked straits, and afterwards with the initial help of Arch, I've pretty much just been hoovering up the remains since then.
My main concern has generally been getting back-stabbed by my rich Italian neighbours (I'm sure Morf and Arch feel the same), but at this point I think everyone has some, albeit creative, directions to advance. I predict that people will only become more reluctant to start direct PvP as the game progresses, as long as any other avenue is open. Perhaps only until the late game when, with many of the AI gobbled up, there'll be a single massive PvP showdown to decide the fate of the world.
Haha, yeah the western front have been in constant wars
At least you finally got some bohemian provinces for it!Edit: In other news, I just completed Demon's Souls. Maybe my playing will get back to being a bit more concentrated from now on
Not at all. I could have rejected them.
Pretty happy with all of the above, as far as it goes. Not played a great amount of single player, so have very much been learning the systems as I go, and still bluffing my way through half of the systems. Would definitely change things up in a second game, however, knowing what I know now. Pretty sure I've made some terrible newbie mistakes simply by not knowing the impact some of the decisions would have had before I made them.
It's all good fun, though!
It's all good fun, though!
Mgoblue201
Won't stop picking the right nation
By the way, how is that war with the Oirat Horde going?
archnemesis
Member
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
So satisfying to be able to go to war and not be constantly terrified of losing. Novgorod is busy wrecking shit in Lithuania, thanks to a new and improved super-army. Cazz should have Lithuania back before too long - just need to keep hammering them at opportune moments. I really enjoyed this session. I've either been a) sitting on my ass waiting for points, or b) desperately trying to fend of Muscowy for so long that c) beating up some poor unfortunate soul hasn't happened in forever. I mean, the last successful war I had was when I annexed Pskov, and that wasn't really a clear overwhelming victory, that was kicking the poor bastards while they were down, and that was decades ago.
archnemesis
Member
AAR - 1554-1562 - Venice
Description of the actions during the session:
The era of religious turmoil has ended and I'm doing fine again. I'm at +2 stability with no loans, low interest, my mercenary army disbanded and I'm finally making a decent chunk of money every month. My missionaries are working much faster now that I've unlocked the +3% strength bonus.
State at the end of the session:
Province Count: Original(8) + 23
Allies: Bohemia, Denmark
At War With: None
Description of the actions during the session:
The era of religious turmoil has ended and I'm doing fine again. I'm at +2 stability with no loans, low interest, my mercenary army disbanded and I'm finally making a decent chunk of money every month. My missionaries are working much faster now that I've unlocked the +3% strength bonus.
State at the end of the session:
Province Count: Original(8) + 23
Allies: Bohemia, Denmark
At War With: None
AAR - 1547-1562 Austria
I decided to play in a more responsible way, so at the start of the session I released Hungary and Bavaria as vassals and consolidated my army, while strengthening the economy too. I contained some rebels and move stability to 0. And just when I was thinking that it will be a quiet session Bohemia decided to attack me and ended up fighting against a good part of Europe with just Trier on their side. The war will be over quite soon next session as all bohemian provinces are under siege. I think Burgundy will have something to gain out of this war, as usual.
The religious reform goes on as scheduled. I wait for the religious unity task ...
State at the end of the session:
Province Count: 20
Vassals: Augsburg, Ansbach, Bavaria, Hungary
Allies: France, Burgundy
At War With: rebels
I decided to play in a more responsible way, so at the start of the session I released Hungary and Bavaria as vassals and consolidated my army, while strengthening the economy too. I contained some rebels and move stability to 0. And just when I was thinking that it will be a quiet session Bohemia decided to attack me and ended up fighting against a good part of Europe with just Trier on their side. The war will be over quite soon next session as all bohemian provinces are under siege. I think Burgundy will have something to gain out of this war, as usual.
The religious reform goes on as scheduled. I wait for the religious unity task ...
State at the end of the session:
Province Count: 20
Vassals: Augsburg, Ansbach, Bavaria, Hungary
Allies: France, Burgundy
At War With: rebels
archnemesis
Member
archnemesis
Member
The upside is that we're having fewer connection issues.
archnemesis
Member
I'm fine with starting an hour, or 30 minutes, earlier.
archnemesis
Member
I think it was Digby, but maybe the other two players from the western hemisphere also have objections to changing the time.
archnemesis
Member
RugMonkey is gone too, I guess.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I can't start earlier. Later, maybe, earlier, no.
archnemesis
Member
That's true. To be honest I'm quite happy with 1 hour sessions, as long as we don't spend half of the time staring at the hotjoin window.
Seems to be going decently now, doesnt it? Less players should mean less hotjoining as well.
archnemesis
Member
Yep, our last session went really smooth.
Glorious OOS, how I missed thee.
Make sure to check your country in this savegame:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fnn9i4r3xq9wl2o/dasd.eu4
If your country is already messed up there, we might need to roll back to one of Archs autosaves, hoping one of them works.
Make sure to check your country in this savegame:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fnn9i4r3xq9wl2o/dasd.eu4
If your country is already messed up there, we might need to roll back to one of Archs autosaves, hoping one of them works.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
That session felt really nostalgic.
archnemesis
Member
I have monthly autosaves turned on which means we can't go that far back in time.
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