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[Mgoblue201]

If arch was allied with France at the start of the war, then they should have automatically been called in on the side of the defender. Because they weren't, I thought maybe arch didn't ally with them until later. But then a call to arms will have a negative modifier applied for something like every additional day the war drags on, so they probably wouldn't have joined past a certain date.

 

[Morfeo]

He wasnt allied with them, That alliance ended last time when he entered a war against me and my ally - France.

 

[archnemesis]

I re-allied during prep time and we were in an alliance before Byzantium declared war. I should have sent them a manual request but I forgot about it since I was trying to micromanage my troops.

 

[Morfeo]

Ok, then u really should have called them in. Could have possibly changed the outcome.

 

[Morfeo]

This actually exemplifies an issue that I have raised before, that is, pausing in PvP-wars. Even though I was at the opposite side in this conflict, I still feel its a bit stupid that its fast reflexes and thinking that wins out in an hectic situation like what Arch faced yesterday. I therefore suggest that we should get a few minutes pause-time at the start of a PvP-war, to call allies, reorganize troops, and generally think things through.

 

[archnemesis]

Well, it's the same for everyone. If we started pausing then it wouldn't be the same thing.

 

[Morfeo]

True that, i would definitely prefer another 'prep time' in such a case though, but i guess i am in the minority who really hates rts- and rts-like games as dota.

 

[fanboi]

But is it really the same since the aggressors can before hand plan the attack and make it neigh impossible to win.

Or is it historically correct (which I don't think it is)

 

[Morfeo]

Definitely not historically correct, and definitely a huge advantage for aggressors. But I guess that just shows that we all should go on the offensive more often than we have done so far

 

[Fitz]

We definitely shouldn't start pausing whenever there's a PvP war, if someone disconnects, or encounters a bug, or some other issue that is impossible to pre-empt then of course it makes sense. But this is a strategy game after all (a real time one), if you're not able to plan ahead and catch your opponent in a moment of weakness, then what's the point? I don't think the nature of the game (RTS vs TBS) makes a difference, the situation would be the same in a game like Civ, if someone is caught in a bad spot, no amount of time will change their situation.

Also, I'm not sure how history comes into it, are you guys suggesting that no nation was ever caught unprepared in a war?

 

[Toma]

We definitely shouldn't start pausing whenever there's a PvP war, if someone disconnects, or encounters a bug, or some other issue that is impossible to pre-empt then of course it makes sense. But this is a strategy game after all (a real time one), if you're not able to plan ahead and catch your opponent in a moment of weakness, then what's the point? I don't think the nature of the game (RTS vs TBS) makes a difference, the situation would be the same in a game like Civ, if someone is caught in a bad spot, no amount of time will change their situation.

Definitely agree with you.

 

[Manik]

Awww, you guys! I really do appreciate the sentiment of the war and would happily join back in if it ever became worthwhile again, but poor Poland is pretty much down and out right at the minute. Without a way to have any kind of impact on the game (aside from deciding which country to cede provinces to each session) it seems a bit of a waste of time continuing.

That's the way it was always going to end up, though. One of us was going to lose our country to a PvP battle and it just so happened to be me. Didn't help that every time one person declared war on me, the rest of Europe piled on! Combined with my lack of strong alliances I was pretty much doomed as soon as that happened.

I'm still around though - so if the Polish rebels manage to gain anything back, then it might be worth giving it a second go!

 

[Morfeo]

My suggestion is not to start pausing all the time, but to allow for one pause in the start of the war - to gather thoughts, troops, call allies and such.

I can just talk for myself - I would fucking hate to forget something as important as call in a powerful ally because of the stressful situation on the outbreak of a PvP war. That is stuff that can happen thanks to the RTS-component of this game - a component that only exist in MP btw as everybody pauses all the time in SP - and it is my least favorite part of this. But of course we should and would be able to capture other players with their pants down - if a war is planned well enough - as this one seemingly was - no amount of pausing will be able to help the defender - but it will at least let him avoid stupid mistakes that comes from panick and/or stress. Honestly, I want to succed or fail in this game based on the decision that I and my fellow players make - not because of stupid mistakes that nobody would do in a SP-game - and that is why I think we should allow one, say two minutes, pause in the start of a PvP-war. However, it seems pretty clear that I am in the minority as usual, and I have no problem with that.

Edit: About the history stuff: Nobody is arguing that no country ever was caught unprepared in a war. Your country will still be prepared/unprepared no matter how much pause we allow. What I argued is that no country did stupid mistakes like a human player could do in a game like this because of having to manage 100 things in a two minutes time, and thus forgetting cornerstone of its defensive policy - like calling allies into war.

 

[Fitz]

It seems like your point is hinged on forgetting to call allies to war when attacked, something which is done automatically. As far as everything else such as time to gather your thoughts and troops, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that point.

I certainly understand your position, I generally avoided Civ multiplayer (before they changed it) for your reasons exactly, it suddenly devolved into a real-time game during PvP, contrary to the nature of the game.
But when it comes to EU, I don't think there's anything unfair about having to react suddenly to attack without pause. There isn't so much to manage that the attacking player will be at a larger advantage than they'd have otherwise been.

 

[Morfeo]

I dont think its unfair or anything - the rules are the same for everybody, and I agree that there isnt THAT much to do in the start of a war, but there is still some things to fix, and personally I would like to do that stuff in a calm rather than stressful situation.
This includes:
- Calling allies (at least so I thought),
- Reorganizing the army
- Raising troops/mercs
- Talking quickly to other humans that might have an interest in helping you
- Sending your trade fleet to ports
- Raising maintenance levels
- Recalling diplomats for use to create military access/other stuff

And surely other stuff that I am forgetting about. Anyways, I have no problem with agreeing to disagree on this, and the rules are the same for all, so that is fair enough.

One thing though, if allies really get called automatically, why didnt France join? He wasnt allied with them then was he? When it comes to all the mechanics of the game, I definitely feel like a complete n00b compared to most of you guys lol.

 

[Manik]

I'm in agreement with Morfeo - The number of daft mistakes I made because I was in a mad panic trying to juggle 25 different things at once definitely cost me dear in the end.

How about just turning the game speed down to 1, instead of flat out pausing it?

 

[archnemesis]

I might be late or missing tonight. I'm watching the World Cup qualifier game halfway across town. If I don't show up by the normal time then maybe someone else can host.

 

[Fitz]

Is the multiplayer in EU p2p? If not I wouldn't mind having a go at hosting, but my upload speed is only 2mb, so it probably wouldn't be ideal for p2p.

edit: also the save download isn't working for me, though I made one myself at the end of last game too.

 

[archnemesis]

Bah! Portugal scored. I should've stayed at home.

 

[Morfeo]

Good luck with the game Arch! As a fellow scandinav, I hope to see you in the WC!

 

[archnemesis]

Edit: This post was supposed to read "Woo! Zlatan scored two goals.", but something got screwed up.

 

[Mgoblue201]

EU4 multiplayer would've been a perfect time to take all your anger out on Portugal.

 

[Toma]

EU4 multiplayer would've been a perfect time to take all your anger out on Portugal.

Haha.

(sorry for missing today, someone was/is over for a visit)

 

[Fitz]

World map - 1656

Save game - http://dropcanvas.com/rxlbe

 

[archnemesis]

World map - 1666

Save game - http://dropcanvas.com/qpwzr

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Some immense deja vu going on. I swear France and I had only just finished our merry business.

 

[Morfeo]

Haha, never fuck with France, I learned that dearly with Fanboi

So Europe is getting crowded, less and less places to expand that isnt controlled by humans. Will be an interesting few sessions going forward!

 

[archnemesis]

World map - 1673

Save game - http://dropcanvas.com/579gs

 

[Morfeo]

So Arch, are you leaving?

 

[FACE]

Oh snap, Portugal took over Spain!

 

[archnemesis]

So Arch, are you leaving?

Yes. I've been considering leaving since fanboi dropped out and since I'm getting a PS4 next week this seems like a good time. I'm tired of the game in general and our game is going to drag out for another 10 weeks. I'd rather use that time for sleep or playing something else. Have fun without me!

 

[Morfeo]

Yes. I've been considering leaving since fanboi dropped out and since I'm getting a PS4 next week this seems like a good time. I'm tired of the game in general and our game is going to drag out for another 10 weeks. I'd rather use that time for sleep or playing something else. Have fun without me!

Ok, I kinda thought so after watching your actions the last few sessions. Was fun playing with you, hope we can do it again sometime!

 

[Kabouter]

So who are actually left? Sardinia-Piedmont, Byzantium, Novgorod, Austria, Vijayanagar (which is mysteriously still not Hindustan) and Japan?

 

[archnemesis]

Poland also joined last session.

 

[Fitz]

Good game Arch, you were a noble ally for much of the game, no hard feelings about how it turned out I hope! The Pax Italia couldn't last forever.

 

[Kabouter]

Good game Arch, you were a noble ally for much of the game, no hard feelings about how it turned out I hope! The Pax Italia couldn't last forever.

So how long can the new Pax Italia last I wonder?

 

[Toma]

So who are actually left? Sardinia-Piedmont, Byzantium, Novgorod, Austria, Vijayanagar (which is mysteriously still not Hindustan) and Japan?

People told me they fear Hindustan, cant make them more afraid of me than they are already.

Besides, I like the yellow, the Hindustan green is ugly.

 

[KingSnake]

So how long can the new Pax Italia last I wonder?

Until they get rid of Austria.

 

[Kabouter]

People told me they fear Hindustan, cant make them more afraid of me than they are already.

Besides, I like the yellow, the Hindustan green is ugly.

Wouldn't Hindustan give you significant advantages in terms of cultural acceptance though like most formable nations?

 

[Fitz]

So how long can the new Pax Italia last I wonder?

Until they get rid of Austria.

Planning a sneak attack on the peaceful parts of Italy at the start of next session, but shh, don't let him know.

 

[Kabouter]

Until they get rid of Austria.

Surely Byzantium will first want to restore all of Italia itself to Rome before moving into Noricum and Pannonia

 

[KingSnake]

Surely Byzantium will first want to restore all of Italia itself to Rome before moving into Noricum and Pannonia

That would fulfill the dream of so many Byzantine emperors, of course.

 

[Manik]

Will be sad to see you go, Arch, despite our conflicts in the past! Let's just hope the AI are a bit more forgiving

I wonder if it's worth agreeing an end date, as I'm sure that people will have less and less time to play, with it coming up to Christmas. And if there's a way to make it to the endgame before then.

 

[Toma]

Will be sad to see you go, Arch, despite our conflicts in the past! Let's just hope the AI are a bit more forgiving

I wonder if it's worth agreeing an end date, as I'm sure that people will have less and less time to play, with it coming up to Christmas. And if there's a way to make it to the endgame before then.

The end date is somewhere in february (based on the speed we were going).

 

[Fitz]

With just 6/7 of us left we should be able to ramp up the weekly play-time soon? I always forget what time-zone people are in.

Also it seemed to go smoothly when I last hosted, so now that Arch has left I'm happy to host the games unless someone else would prefer to do it.

 

[Manik]

The end date is somewhere in february (based on the speed we were going).

Yeah, and there's no way I can see interest levels staying high (amongst those left) for another 3 months. Not sure what the current state of things is with regards to length of each session, but if we can't make them longer then we could try moving to speed 3?

Would rather go out all together, at an agreed date, than just have the game fade out because no one was interested any more.

 

[KingSnake]

maybe we can start earlier and play longer?

 

[Toma]

maybe we can start earlier and play longer?

Time for another time poll I guess, but I definitely want to pull through to the end.

 

[KingSnake]

Time for another time poll I guess, but I definitely want to pull through to the end.

Me too.

I can play whenever between 20:00 and 1:00. The days are fain as they are set now.

 

[Fitz]

At the moment any time in the evening from (GMT) 7PM and on is fine during the week, and all day during the weekends, outside of 6-7PM.