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Europa Universalis IV |OT| A Game of Blobs
- Thread starter Toma
- Start date
I'm also loving the fact that wasteland and uncolonised territory are now different shades of grey on the political map. Really useful imo.
Other than safety (like getting away from the coastline), you also get some power for migrating.
Migrating gives ADM, DIPL, MIL Tech power? :-o
Yes. So you choose between getting big sooner or advancing your native technology more quickly.
They will probably work on that quite a lot still, but I personally dont care much how "natural" it looks. If I'd get a mod that randomizes the whole world this way, I'd never need another strategy game
Two posts in a row, but no matter, game's on sale on Green Man Gaming. Half off, €20.
http://www.greenmangaming.com/s/nl/en/pc/games/strategy/europa-universalis-iv/
http://www.greenmangaming.com/s/nl/en/pc/games/strategy/europa-universalis-iv/
Basileus777
Member
Huh? This would hardly be the first time Paradox released a half-assed DLC or expansion.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Coalition wars, ffs.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
All my soldiers are Aryan Ubermench thanks to Prussian ideas + quality + offensive.
Mgoblue201
Won't stop picking the right nation
The Polish/Commonwealth army is surprisingly strong (of course, after i took four military idea groups). I was making huge gains against Russia at the end and could have conquered Moscow if I had more time. But my growth was stymied for much of the game by these huge blobs on all sides and a complex series of intertwining alliances between all my enemies. I made the mistake of not forming the Commonwealth until the late 16th century.
Mgoblue201
Won't stop picking the right nation
EU4 is currently $20 on Steam.
It's also on sale for the next hour on the Humble Bumble store for the same price. Keep in mind that it's 15 euro for Europeans, that means 5 euro's cheaper then Steam
Just bought it, never played a game like this before so I got no idea what I've gotten myself into.
Frankfurter
Member
Thanks for the heads up, just bought it at the humblebundle store (~15)
Basileus777
Member
So, new games coming.
Not sure why I would shout "GOOD LORD" though if they just pick up a game, not like they are making a super surprising game and its something that would have been released with another publisher otherwise I guess if its so "GOOD LORD" worthy. *shrug*
Mount and Blade 2 in 2014? I'd take 10 of that.
You know what would make me say "GOOD LORD"? Hearts of Iron IV.
Basileus777
Member
Eu4: Conquest of Paradise is now scheduled for a 14th of January release.
They wouldn't have to sign a deal for Hearts of Iron IV though right? That would be an in-house game.
I think so, but imagine getting M&B 2 and HoI IV on the same year? It'd be pretty nice
EndcatOmega
Unconfirmed Member
Had the game for a while, but kept putting off starting a game for CKII shenanigans; are one of the Japanese starts any good for a beginner?
I imagine playing as Japan is probably the easiest option as you can simply integrate the other nations one by one, otherwise pick the best looking Daimyo, bearing in mind that after taking 10 provinces, shit could hit the fan when the Emperor will be out for your blood. I've not actually tried any of the Japanese nations in EU4 yet though, so someone else can probably offer better advice. I mostly remember rapidly forcing PUs in EU3 against the other states.
Hosokawa is the best positioned out of all the Daimyo's I've tried.
Suo is okay, the problem is Korea will usually ally with Harima and get on your case and having your armies split in two if you can't guard the South Korean Sea is killer. Their trade dominance is unmatched, however, thanks to their starting fleet of Light Ships and owning a trade hub.
Harima is also another okay choice but I couldn't see much success with them.
Japan proper is actually pretty hard to play if you're rushing for unification, because you're in the middle of a bunch of power hungry Daimyos. The safer option is to take over the southwest end while the northeast end fights among itself, and then take Japan (the current reigning Daimyo, not the entire country) in one fell swoop during an opportunistic war (when they are attacked or when they are attacking someone else).
The single province Daimyos aren't worth talking about although you'll have your work cut out for you if you try to take Takeda by brute force.
The CPU sees a lot of success with Shiba but I personally wouldn't use them because their provinces are all split up and I hate taking away light ships from trading just to protect my transports.
You'd think Uesugi would be good but I actually had a really hard time with them. I think it's because their closest neighbors, Takeda and Mutsu are both highly defensible, and that it's impossible to get to Kyoto unless you have military access through Hatakeyama, Takeda (although you can ally Takeda immediately) or Suruga, which can be hard to get when everyone is scared shitless of you. Uesugi's sea force is kind of bad, and their land force is only equal to Japan's.
Hosokawa's situation summarized:
+ Four starting provinces
+ Good navy and land force
+ Close neighbors no one cares about (Bungo, Satsuma, Hatakeyama)
+ Close to the heart of the Nippon trade node, meaning you can dominate trade as part of your opening conquest
- Tends to get into trouble with Korea (all the southern Daimyos do, however)
- Poor allies, I believe they can get Bungo and Takeda at the start, both of who are totally useless
- Total territory divided by both sea and land although this is mitigated by their superior force
- Near Japan. Basically, whoever takes Japan first is not going to be friends with you, so it'll take some patience to wait for them to calm down and turn their sights northward before you can strike at their weakened rear.
My record for total unification was around 1500, I believe, and that's only because I opted to go for Annexation of some inopportune vassals (back then I didn't realize how time consuming Annexation was). Which I assume is decent, considering Oda didn't dominate Japan until the 1580s, so I have at least 80 years over Japan's greatest general.
Starting as a Daimyo can be pretty complex but it's how I started EUIV and it's a great way to learn the intricacies of naval management, coalition, vassals and trade, all of which are extremely important in this game. Sort of a trial by fire thing.
Suo is okay, the problem is Korea will usually ally with Harima and get on your case and having your armies split in two if you can't guard the South Korean Sea is killer. Their trade dominance is unmatched, however, thanks to their starting fleet of Light Ships and owning a trade hub.
Harima is also another okay choice but I couldn't see much success with them.
Japan proper is actually pretty hard to play if you're rushing for unification, because you're in the middle of a bunch of power hungry Daimyos. The safer option is to take over the southwest end while the northeast end fights among itself, and then take Japan (the current reigning Daimyo, not the entire country) in one fell swoop during an opportunistic war (when they are attacked or when they are attacking someone else).
The single province Daimyos aren't worth talking about although you'll have your work cut out for you if you try to take Takeda by brute force.
The CPU sees a lot of success with Shiba but I personally wouldn't use them because their provinces are all split up and I hate taking away light ships from trading just to protect my transports.
You'd think Uesugi would be good but I actually had a really hard time with them. I think it's because their closest neighbors, Takeda and Mutsu are both highly defensible, and that it's impossible to get to Kyoto unless you have military access through Hatakeyama, Takeda (although you can ally Takeda immediately) or Suruga, which can be hard to get when everyone is scared shitless of you. Uesugi's sea force is kind of bad, and their land force is only equal to Japan's.
Hosokawa's situation summarized:
+ Four starting provinces
+ Good navy and land force
+ Close neighbors no one cares about (Bungo, Satsuma, Hatakeyama)
+ Close to the heart of the Nippon trade node, meaning you can dominate trade as part of your opening conquest
- Tends to get into trouble with Korea (all the southern Daimyos do, however)
- Poor allies, I believe they can get Bungo and Takeda at the start, both of who are totally useless
- Total territory divided by both sea and land although this is mitigated by their superior force
- Near Japan. Basically, whoever takes Japan first is not going to be friends with you, so it'll take some patience to wait for them to calm down and turn their sights northward before you can strike at their weakened rear.
My record for total unification was around 1500, I believe, and that's only because I opted to go for Annexation of some inopportune vassals (back then I didn't realize how time consuming Annexation was). Which I assume is decent, considering Oda didn't dominate Japan until the 1580s, so I have at least 80 years over Japan's greatest general.
Starting as a Daimyo can be pretty complex but it's how I started EUIV and it's a great way to learn the intricacies of naval management, coalition, vassals and trade, all of which are extremely important in this game. Sort of a trial by fire thing.
EndcatOmega
Unconfirmed Member
I actually already started with Shiba (on the logical basis that 'I like their name'), but this is helpful. Completely forgot about the patrolling ships thing. Are peaceful annexes an option? There seems to be a huge base tax penalty to anyone I've tried it with.
They are but it's too slow for my liking. Once you reach critical mass, the only thing you need to worry about is Korea. If you're lucky enough to be able to keep them off your back I don't see why you wouldn't go for conquest. Vassals don't give you nearly that much income (they don't give you their tax, just a percentage of their total income and it's miniscule) which is why I don't like the Annexation route. They also take away from your trade dominance. The way I see it, early conquest snowballs into more conquest, whereas Annexation is a very "slow and steady" route. Certainly, it's safer, even though I wouldn't try to Annex ALL of Japan (good luck getting Japan proper to stay alive and not get gobbled up by Shiba/Uesugi/Hosokawa), you'll have to fight some time. Although it's potentially useful to vassalize one key country in order to "feed" them provinces (give it to them for free) in order to save on Admin points (necessary for rushing Colonization).
Do not under any circumstances vassalize Bungo or Satsuma, those guys are totally useless and aren't even willing to take Suo's territories. Mutsu is a good choice to feed the upper half, and potentially Takeda although I haven't tried it myself.
Do not under any circumstances vassalize Bungo or Satsuma, those guys are totally useless and aren't even willing to take Suo's territories. Mutsu is a good choice to feed the upper half, and potentially Takeda although I haven't tried it myself.
EndcatOmega
Unconfirmed Member
Takeda was who I was trying... which ended with them revoking my alliance, so I kind of gave up on 'em. I'll keep on the conquest route until my aggression score gets worrying. Do you have to wait for an event to take on Japan, or can you do it anytime?
At any time you do a complete annexation of Japan, you replace them and "become" Japan. I don't think you suffer the usual penalties for mass annexation in this case (rebels errywhere).
The easiest way to abuse this is to wait until they grow to a sizable country (near yours but not as big), wait for them to attack their strongest rival (that's not you because they're weaker and scurred), and then blitz of their entire country while their blob is occupied with the other major power, cleaning up whatever tries to retreat back to their home territory. Once you hit 100%, annex immediately and you just got half of Japan without spending much effort at all. If you're REALLY clever and planned it out carefully, you can actually occupy them until they win their war with their rival and their territory expands, then immediately demand their Full Annexation and get an additional 1 or 2 territories to boot, although the stars need to align for this to work.
(I might have spend a few hundred years toying with Daimyo openings, if you haven't guessed.)
The easiest way to abuse this is to wait until they grow to a sizable country (near yours but not as big), wait for them to attack their strongest rival (that's not you because they're weaker and scurred), and then blitz of their entire country while their blob is occupied with the other major power, cleaning up whatever tries to retreat back to their home territory. Once you hit 100%, annex immediately and you just got half of Japan without spending much effort at all. If you're REALLY clever and planned it out carefully, you can actually occupy them until they win their war with their rival and their territory expands, then immediately demand their Full Annexation and get an additional 1 or 2 territories to boot, although the stars need to align for this to work.
(I might have spend a few hundred years toying with Daimyo openings, if you haven't guessed.)
tylerf
Member
I actually just unified Japan for the first time by starting as Hosokawa. Swallowed up most of the southern half but stopped at 9 provinces so the Shogun wouldn't come after me. Then I waited and collected gold while a major power emerged from the north (happened to be Takeda). Eventually Takeda expanded too much and they had a nice draining war with the Shogun. After that I was able to pounce on the Shogun with the help of a few mercenaries (Shogun was still pretty strong at this point and I didn't want to risk spending all my manpower) and eventually take the whole country.
EndcatOmega
Unconfirmed Member
One more question: starting again after screwing up in a bunch of hilarious ways. I think I sorta get trading- is there any point in using a Daimyo's second merchant? The upstream node from Nippon is off the map and appears to be in America somewhere.
I'd put it in the Hanzhou trade route to redirect some trade upstream. It's not much but it's better than nothing.
There is nothing you can do against Western countries, don't even try.
During my Japan game I was playing off of a CK2 save file with Sunset Invasion DLC on, which upgraded the Aztecs/Incans/Mayans to what is effectively the Western tech group.
Yeah, not pleasant.
EDIT: I guess you COULD try to ally them first, or befriend Castille/Spain, or France or Britain, but like, getting those guys to be your friends is really difficult.
During my Japan game I was playing off of a CK2 save file with Sunset Invasion DLC on, which upgraded the Aztecs/Incans/Mayans to what is effectively the Western tech group.
Yeah, not pleasant.
EDIT: I guess you COULD try to ally them first, or befriend Castille/Spain, or France or Britain, but like, getting those guys to be your friends is really difficult.
Why not just try to westernize asap? As Japan, an obvious strategy is heading for the Americas asap and trying to border a European core there so you can westernize off them. I did that in a recent MP game as Brunei/Malaya except with West Africa instead of the Americas.
It's not an easy or comfortable process, but definitely doable and the rewards are grand indeed. To illustrate:
Brunei/Malaya (Multiplayer), other player is Great Britain. Shun, Tibet, Nepal, Shan, Ethiopia, Sind, Punjab and Golkonda are my vassals.
What I did there was take exploration as my first idea and make my way around Africa as quick as possible, eventually bordered Spain in West Africa, started westernization and then immediately sold the province to Mali (who have since lost it to Portugal). So I was able to dominate my neighbours rather quickly with Western tech. I still absolutely dominate East Asia and was actually able to largely prevent European powers from gaining a foothold. I'll need to take the entire Indian region to really secure that though, because Euros always get missions there and want the East India Trade Company decision. Austria leading a PU with Spain sort of sucks too :X
Edit: Oh, I should add, only start westernization when you have a good ruler with regard to admin points. You will need a lot of them as you need positive stability to make progress and stability cost is like +200% during westernization. Westernization events are very very bad, so you definitely don't want it to be a 50 year process.