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Europa Universalis IV |OT| A Game of Blobs
- Thread starter Toma
- Start date
Manchu is... unplayable. There is just no way to play them that's not soulcrushingly painful. It makes Ming look like easymode.
First try: Ally Ming, move against Korea. Most of it taken, then it becomes vassalized by Ming and Ming drops alliance. Oirat Horde somehow took ALL of Chagatai in one go and I can't afford to attack them (seriously how is that possible? I've tried this like 3 times and at most I can get maybe one or two provinces before I'm exhausted). Ended up in a loop whereby rebels spawned every few months, complaining I'm not warring enough. Well no shit, I depleted my entire MP pool and these rebellions are keeping me there in a never ending rebellion loop.
Second try: Ally Ming, move against Korea. Half of it taken. Then I turn my attention towards Mongol Khanate. Half of that taken. Ming drops alliance. Korea allies Ming. I spend a decade or two trying to colonize northwards but eventually I was dragged into the rebel loop.
Third try: Ally Ming and Korea, move against Mongol Khanate. They already allied with Tibet. I win the war but by the end both Korea and Ming drop alliance. Wound up in rebel loop.
Fourth try: Ally Ming and Korea, move against Mongol Khanate immediately (preventing them from allying Tibet). Take two provinces and call it quits so my allies don't get cold feet. Enjoy maybe 5 years of building up my country before the truce drops and immediately 17 rebels spawn near my capital because I'm not warring enough. I kill them. One month later, another 17 rebels spawn in the exact same province while my army was on its last legs from the last fight (only about 6 troops left).
I'm done, no more hordes for me until they overhaul this fucking stupid mechanic.
First try: Ally Ming, move against Korea. Most of it taken, then it becomes vassalized by Ming and Ming drops alliance. Oirat Horde somehow took ALL of Chagatai in one go and I can't afford to attack them (seriously how is that possible? I've tried this like 3 times and at most I can get maybe one or two provinces before I'm exhausted). Ended up in a loop whereby rebels spawned every few months, complaining I'm not warring enough. Well no shit, I depleted my entire MP pool and these rebellions are keeping me there in a never ending rebellion loop.
Second try: Ally Ming, move against Korea. Half of it taken. Then I turn my attention towards Mongol Khanate. Half of that taken. Ming drops alliance. Korea allies Ming. I spend a decade or two trying to colonize northwards but eventually I was dragged into the rebel loop.
Third try: Ally Ming and Korea, move against Mongol Khanate. They already allied with Tibet. I win the war but by the end both Korea and Ming drop alliance. Wound up in rebel loop.
Fourth try: Ally Ming and Korea, move against Mongol Khanate immediately (preventing them from allying Tibet). Take two provinces and call it quits so my allies don't get cold feet. Enjoy maybe 5 years of building up my country before the truce drops and immediately 17 rebels spawn near my capital because I'm not warring enough. I kill them. One month later, another 17 rebels spawn in the exact same province while my army was on its last legs from the last fight (only about 6 troops left).
I'm done, no more hordes for me until they overhaul this fucking stupid mechanic.
EndcatOmega
Unconfirmed Member
How do you Westernise, exactly? I'm bordering Russia and Portugal cores, at 3 stability and lagging behind by like 9 tech levels but the button's still grey.
You need to be at peace, that's about all I can think of that might be messing you up. Russia by the way probably won't help given that they're probably still in the Eastern tech group, but you should be able to westernize off of Portugal.
Oh, for sure, in general one of my favourite nations to play both in EU3 and EU4.
EndcatOmega
Unconfirmed Member
Hmm. What counts as a neighbouring province? I can fabricate claims on some Portuguese cores, but they're islands; does westernisation strictly need a land connection?
EndcatOmega
Unconfirmed Member
Some info on 1.4:
- You will no longer get increase AE from actions just because you are a bigger country.
- All impact on AE from war & peace now scale, there are no fixed values there anymore.
Hopefully that's some decent scaling, though I don't have much of an issue with AE atm, it's the overextension system that really needs to be sorted.
- You will no longer get increase AE from actions just because you are a bigger country.
- All impact on AE from war & peace now scale, there are no fixed values there anymore.
Hopefully that's some decent scaling, though I don't have much of an issue with AE atm, it's the overextension system that really needs to be sorted.
That's the thing, the way coalitions form don't make sense, anyone with significant AE takes it as a chance to jump you, whether or not they have any other reason.
Overextension on the other hand is just poorly implemented. An entirely stable empire taking too many provinces on one side of the planet shouldn't cause issues at the other end. There needs to be more localised systems to deal with conquering new provinces that takes into account things such as culture and religious differences. Empire-wide overextension shouldn't be something that occurs unless you've been expanding massively beyond your means. Though at that point it should of course be very harsh.
Overextension on the other hand is just poorly implemented. An entirely stable empire taking too many provinces on one side of the planet shouldn't cause issues at the other end. There needs to be more localised systems to deal with conquering new provinces that takes into account things such as culture and religious differences. Empire-wide overextension shouldn't be something that occurs unless you've been expanding massively beyond your means. Though at that point it should of course be very harsh.
Mgoblue201
Won't stop picking the right nation
Paradox obviously didn't go far enough to reformulate the mechanics of EU3. The negative modifiers from overextension are almost the exact same as the negative modifiers for crossing the infamy limit in older games, while also appropriating many of the same events. The justification for what overextension is trying to represent makes sense, but in practice it's just another heavily abstracted system, one that is as almost unrealistic as the old reputation system. And coalitions, although a vast improvement upon the dishonorable scum CB, still adhere to the same idea that the game should punish players for expanding too aggressively. Both mechanics are a step in the right direction, but they clearly need to be improved.
Basileus777
Member
The problem is that Paradox worked backwards from problems they wanted to solve and implemented strong armed mechanics to stop them. They wanted to stop snowballing, so coalitions and AE, even if the mechanics used to solve it are often illogical and not particularly interesting to interact with. They aren't designing around history or making realistic systems, they are using a sledgehammer to control play styles. Paradox's design work with EU4 has been pretty sloppy, hopefully 1.04 will be a step in the right direction.
Playing as the Ottomans I'm having a hard time extending into anywhere.
There's a huge Persia, the fully formed and huge HRE, a huge blob of France, Great Britain, Scandinavian Sweden, and a huge Muscovy which I'm pretty sure will turn into Russia soon.
I think I took too long trying to expand and was just dicking around in Italy getting control of Rome.
At least Rome is Turkish and Sunni.
There's a huge Persia, the fully formed and huge HRE, a huge blob of France, Great Britain, Scandinavian Sweden, and a huge Muscovy which I'm pretty sure will turn into Russia soon.
I think I took too long trying to expand and was just dicking around in Italy getting control of Rome.
At least Rome is Turkish and Sunni.
well. that is disappointing. but not unexpected.
Basileus777
Member
I would say it is 100% more realistic that they should join even during a truce and it is a mechanic to stop abusing the truce mechanic since you could get into a coalition war, lose and reclaim all lost territories (like I did vs France as Burgundy).
You mean re-insert a blatant exploit? No, I don't think 1.4 will do that.
Basileus777
Member
Yeah, I was just using that as an excuse to harp how on poorly implemented coalitions are in EU4. The truce mechanic actually makes sense.
But I don't really see the problem with coalition mechanic? If you are very aggressive and expand a lot the rest of the world will start suspecting they might be next and band up together against a common foe that they don't want to become to strong.
There is no real design issue with the fundamentals of coalitions, it's a very good idea. Some things could certainly be tuned with regard to the logic behind joining coalitions, but overall it's a system that functions very well and accomplishes its goal. Quite a big improvement over the infamy wars of old.
Yes, I agree regarding the old infamy system.
But joining I don't see an issue really either, AI will join depending on AE and relationship with collation target, right? Which I think is great.
Regarding to player controlled joining I can only see one improvement that I don't believe is in the game is that you should have less then X in relationship with target.
Yeah, I have no issues with the mechanic as it is. Just wanted clarification that that is what would happen.
The fact the AI has joined a coalition makes perfect sense as I have been spreading into the HRE fairly quickly as Tuscany, just took over Switzerland for example. And Austria + a bunch of other minor states have all joined forces. Issue for Austria is that they are terribly weak militarily at the moment (some 7k troops and non existant manpower, France similar).
Burgundy are all over France at the moment, so tempted to jump on that train and try and grab the final province back off Austria that I need to form Italy. Fairly sure Castille will join in on my side.
Anyway, thanks for all the answers
The fact the AI has joined a coalition makes perfect sense as I have been spreading into the HRE fairly quickly as Tuscany, just took over Switzerland for example. And Austria + a bunch of other minor states have all joined forces. Issue for Austria is that they are terribly weak militarily at the moment (some 7k troops and non existant manpower, France similar).
Burgundy are all over France at the moment, so tempted to jump on that train and try and grab the final province back off Austria that I need to form Italy. Fairly sure Castille will join in on my side.
Anyway, thanks for all the answers
I've been playing this game pretty actively for the past couple weeks. For some reason, though, I can almost never win any battles. I can have 3,000 more men than my opponents, led by a general, but they'll still lose. I make sure that my army maintenance is at full strength.
Any tips for winning wars? I'm used to Crusader Kings, where you really just need the largest army to dominate.
Any tips for winning wars? I'm used to Crusader Kings, where you really just need the largest army to dominate.
Compare military tech levels, even 1 level can make a big difference if it's a significant one (new tier of unit, increased tactics). Also as ag-my001 said, terrain is key, the bonus for defending in mountains especially is huge. -3 to attacker rolls, as well as limited combat width, which can stack with the -1 to rolls from attacking across a river.
Yup. Aside from this there is also army composition and ideas.
In my (limited) experience, if you're not in the Western group from the get-go, going Quality is a must. Especially if you're in North Africa or Eastern Europe where Western has zero issues going to war with you.
EndcatOmega
Unconfirmed Member
What buildings are worth it? I'm playing the Commonwealth now, and building Temples and Armories everywhere, and Constables where there's a return of more than +1, but I dunno what else to focus on- is it even worth it to build trade buildings if I own pretty much everything in my centre of trade?
Temples in non distance-overseas provinces are generally always a good idea, extra base tax, and thus also increased force limits. If you can spare the admin power, the entire production line (starting with the constable) is fantastic and a great way to up your income across the board.
Armouries are another safe bet, an efficient way to increase your manpower pool. You should also designate a few provinces (ideally with high base tax) as your military construction provinces and max out the military line of buildings there, with a priority on the first 3 buildings. That effectively results in -15% maintenance cost for all your armies as long as all your regiments are built from these provinces.
Everything else is situational really, government line in your capital for the spy defence, a cathedral or three if you're Catholic, etc.
I only make Armouries in the early game because Manpower is a bitch. Lategame I'll shell out for the production boosters (the 500 ducat ones).
I only make other buildings when I have a huge surplus of points and nothing to use them on (which is rare considering I like to play backwards barbarian countries).
I only make other buildings when I have a huge surplus of points and nothing to use them on (which is rare considering I like to play backwards barbarian countries).
Gee, just five achievements in EU4 to go after I finish my current game. Conquering the world, effectively conquering the world as Norway, conquering the world as Ryukyu and conquering six major European capitals as the Aztec. Oh, and becoming Holy Roman Emperor as Spain, which is probably doable unlike those others.
In my current game I expect to get Master of India (more than halfway there and it's something like 1660) and Just a Little Patience.
In my current game I expect to get Master of India (more than halfway there and it's something like 1660) and Just a Little Patience.
Better start working on Ryukyu then
Tbh, if any of those four in the impossible category is doable, it might be the Aztec one. It'll still take a bunch of tries of course, and you'll have to be lucky as hell, but if you manage to westernize early enough and fight sufficiently aggressively, it might be possible. Big ifs though.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Spain is the Emperor should be doable, as should the Aztecs (although much harder). Only 3 people have the World Conquest achievement since the last patch, and none Ryukyu/Norway, so good luck with those ones.
Spain is the Emperor should be doable, as should the Aztecs (although much harder). Only 3 people have the World Conquest achievement since the last patch, and none Ryukyu/Norway, so good luck with those ones.
Like I'm even going to bother trying for a world conquest hahah.
Got the 'Just a Little Patience' achievement, final map:
Savoy and Hungary are in PUs, Khmer is a vassal. Scandinavia and Lithuania came about through a union with Sweden I lucked into (didn't even claim throne or anything unlike with Hungary/Savoy). Winning the Hundred Years War at first took seven or eight tries, but I wanted a good start to be able to complete the India mission in time. (I wasn't too worried about the one where you need Hormoz/Malacca/Aden)
Savoy and Hungary are in PUs, Khmer is a vassal. Scandinavia and Lithuania came about through a union with Sweden I lucked into (didn't even claim throne or anything unlike with Hungary/Savoy). Winning the Hundred Years War at first took seven or eight tries, but I wanted a good start to be able to complete the India mission in time. (I wasn't too worried about the one where you need Hormoz/Malacca/Aden)
You should just keep it uncored and wait it out. Fez will eventually buy it once they have stabilized. I had to do the same thing with Tunis, who I released to feed Algeria but they wouldn't take Laghwat until a few years later.
EDIT: These coalition blues. I take a few territories, return a few territories, just to disarm the Ottomans.
Europe: NO. YOU CAN'T DO THAT. COALITION BLOOOOOOOOOOOOB.
Portugal, Austria, Ottomans, Crimea, Livonia, Hungary, Tirol, Ferrarra, Commonwealth, Genoa, Qara Qoyunlu, Netherlands, and their allies, England, France, and Spain.
Fuck, man, I don't even want your shitty ass countries, I just want the Ottomans to stop being a thorn in my side.
Good thing I had 8000 ducats in my treasury to pay off the first two punitive wars immediately, although I don't think my wallet can survive two more.
Things I learned from my Mamluk game:
1) Annexing vassals is not as "free" as I thought it was. I was hovering at 0-10 Legitimacy for like, a hundred years.
2) I managed to get Spain into a war with Portugal through alliance mechanics, this is AWESOME.
3) I hate having a standing Navy that's not 100% Light Ships but in hindsight, I would've done better if I started taking over India sooner.
Whew, that was fun. I really need to learn how to manage AE though.
I feel like Daimyos were changed some how. Uniting Japan was never this hard when I first started playing (around launch). It might've been because I was use a converted file from CK2 so something was messed up but I don't recall ever having to fight Japan and all their current Vassals at the same time when I'm trying to seize the throne. Considering that they get a CB on you the moment you get 10 provinces, I've been wracking my brain trying to think of a way to beat an army 3 times the sizeof mine.
In a previous Ironman run, I had lured their and their Vassals' armies onto the southwest island, and then locked them there with my navy while I swept the rest of the country, but this was only after they declared war on me so I didn't get the achievement.
My latest strat is annex-releasing one major Daimyo to keep my province counter under 10. Once I'm as strong as I can possible be, I declare war on every remaining vassal at the same time, Fully Annex all of them, then immediately declare war on Japan and rebuild my army with mercenaries, taking advantage of my massive gold boost from all the provinces. Along the way I make sure to take out OPMs so Japan doesn't diplo-annex them.
EDIT: These coalition blues. I take a few territories, return a few territories, just to disarm the Ottomans.
Europe: NO. YOU CAN'T DO THAT. COALITION BLOOOOOOOOOOOOB.
Portugal, Austria, Ottomans, Crimea, Livonia, Hungary, Tirol, Ferrarra, Commonwealth, Genoa, Qara Qoyunlu, Netherlands, and their allies, England, France, and Spain.
Fuck, man, I don't even want your shitty ass countries, I just want the Ottomans to stop being a thorn in my side.
Good thing I had 8000 ducats in my treasury to pay off the first two punitive wars immediately, although I don't think my wallet can survive two more.
Things I learned from my Mamluk game:
1) Annexing vassals is not as "free" as I thought it was. I was hovering at 0-10 Legitimacy for like, a hundred years.
2) I managed to get Spain into a war with Portugal through alliance mechanics, this is AWESOME.
3) I hate having a standing Navy that's not 100% Light Ships but in hindsight, I would've done better if I started taking over India sooner.
Whew, that was fun. I really need to learn how to manage AE though.
I feel like Daimyos were changed some how. Uniting Japan was never this hard when I first started playing (around launch). It might've been because I was use a converted file from CK2 so something was messed up but I don't recall ever having to fight Japan and all their current Vassals at the same time when I'm trying to seize the throne. Considering that they get a CB on you the moment you get 10 provinces, I've been wracking my brain trying to think of a way to beat an army 3 times the sizeof mine.
In a previous Ironman run, I had lured their and their Vassals' armies onto the southwest island, and then locked them there with my navy while I swept the rest of the country, but this was only after they declared war on me so I didn't get the achievement.
My latest strat is annex-releasing one major Daimyo to keep my province counter under 10. Once I'm as strong as I can possible be, I declare war on every remaining vassal at the same time, Fully Annex all of them, then immediately declare war on Japan and rebuild my army with mercenaries, taking advantage of my massive gold boost from all the provinces. Along the way I make sure to take out OPMs so Japan doesn't diplo-annex them.
Fragamemnon
Member
I am doing Hosokawa as my first EU4 game-I had to restart like ten times but the key was draining the manpower out of the rest of the Daimyos and then using mercenaries to bring down the shogunate's armies piecemeal if you can. It's really tricky and you have to wait a bit for your first window of opportunity (but you can't wait too long or he diploannexes the Daimyo with the gold mines).
Your reward is watching Ming implode with regularity for the next two centuries..
Your reward is watching Ming implode with regularity for the next two centuries..
Ming is just brutal if it ever loses the mandate of heaven, almost impossible to keep it all together. At least the AI isn't quite so terrible at managing the faction system anymore as it was at launch.
Hey guys
I'm pretty new to this game (only picked it up during the last humble store sale).
So far everything is going alright (I think), although I feel like I'm not achieving a whole lot, still having fun regardless.
The one thing I can't seem to figure out, is how to find out where a country exactly is. Let's say I get an alliance request from France (which I know where it is), is there a button that shows you where the country is actually located. For the bigger ones this is not an issue, it's just that my historical geography is not all that great...
So far EU4 seems a lot more accessible than CK2, I've done the watching let's plays to get an understanding, but find that no game is even remotely the same in paradox games.
Ah well, playing more games will probably solve this issue.
I'm pretty new to this game (only picked it up during the last humble store sale).
So far everything is going alright (I think), although I feel like I'm not achieving a whole lot, still having fun regardless.
The one thing I can't seem to figure out, is how to find out where a country exactly is. Let's say I get an alliance request from France (which I know where it is), is there a button that shows you where the country is actually located. For the bigger ones this is not an issue, it's just that my historical geography is not all that great...
So far EU4 seems a lot more accessible than CK2, I've done the watching let's plays to get an understanding, but find that no game is even remotely the same in paradox games.
Ah well, playing more games will probably solve this issue.
Under the mini map there's an arrow button that brings up a search thing you can use.
Y'know, I never really used hotkeys much in any strategy game. It really does seem like something I should get around to learning.
They added a whole bunch of handy hotkeys to EU4, definitely worth taking the time to pick some up, especially if you ever play multiplayer where pausing constantly isn't an option.
Aaaargh, Sunset Invasion achievement is kicking my ass. I was making progress and had gained a foothold in Iberia, before a massive European coalition consisting of Austria, France, Great Britain, Castile, Aragon, Portugal, Brandenburg, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Milan, Venice and a whole load of smaller nations booted me from Europe again.
Aaaargh, Sunset Invasion achievement is kicking my ass. I was making progress and had gained a foothold in Iberia, before a massive European coalition consisting of Austria, France, Great Britain, Castile, Aragon, Portugal, Brandenburg, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Milan, Venice and a whole load of smaller nations booted me from Europe again.
Sounds like you need to make some European friends, like the Ottomans, Russia and the Commonwealth. I wonder if you could join the HRE if you managed to get a foothold there first...
My other idea would be to somehow become Christian so you can start marrying off to Portugal and some Italian minors in hopes of getting a PU.