Ever had an employee that refuses to look presentable, but has incredible potential?
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cheststrongwell
my cake, fuck off
Apparently many people posting in this topic are living in a fantasy land were a large amount of customers aren't raging assholes that will complain about the smallest things. As much as I've wanted to in the past, I can't tell customers to fuck off. Sad, but this is the world we live in.
Albino_Samurai
Member
That's just it. I don't care about money. Money is like religion to me.
And i certainly don't judge people on their apearance! That's totaly against what i stand for!
I judge people on their behaviour and attitude.
Dark Octave
Banned
I don't know why I found this so funny.
Race to be King
Banned
Existential beard crisis?
AnotherNils
Member
Can't win? Change the rules!
Has this gone from wanting to promote a guy because he's damn good to just trying to get him to conform out of frustration at this point? I can't tell if OP is kidding or not.
Zoe
Member
Unwilling to dress up once in a while says a lot about one's attitude.
Albino_Samurai
Member
I like my beard!
AnotherNils
Member
Well, context. Unwilling to dress up for work could mean he doesn't care about the job, or he doesn't believe in suits, or he was just raised that way.
Recently I was at a memorial service where the person's brothers showed up in essentially shirts and shorts. I don't think it means they loved him any less that they weren't wearing suits.
Albino_Samurai
Member
Race to be King
Banned
Keeps your chin warm, right?
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
It's business. I can't just 'convince' our clients to deal with a guy who looks unappealing. They choose themselves, and will go elsewhere.
But we're a business, a brand. You're not given behavior and attitude as much as you are given appearances when it comes to business.
Albino_Samurai
Member
In honour of this thread i'm gonna let it grow so long that it keeps my chest warm as well.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
You're gonna need it as you might find yourself unemployed and out on the street this winter!
I'm kidding. Mostly. 
I'm not going to take a picture of him, but to be quite honest, it is VERY close to this but a little longer:
That's pretty unacceptable for someone pitching ideas to potential clients, or for management. So yeah, you made the right call. My beard is trimmed at a 2, neck beard trimmed daily, and hair is cut pretty short. And you know what, I used to be in a metal band, have tattoos, am still into hardcore and punk, but I'm able to express my individuality on my own time and am able to wear dress clothes at work and look presentable. It's really not that hard to strike a balance, and I might have been offended if somebody told me this 10 years ago, but I'm a little more mature and feel a lot older. Wouldn't mean shit to me now, but nobody would have to tell me since I'm already doing what I need to do by exceeding their minimum dress code requirements.
Why wear more than the minimum flair? Because I don't just want to be a worker bee forever, that's why.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
is his hair the same?
now you're just being an ass. and why do you feel you are the determiner of his success? let the man decide if he wants to move up the ladder. he knows what he needs to do, you don't have to badger him like you're his freaking mother. so glad your wife lost the election, can you imagine the bullshit laws you two would have tried to pass?
Albino_Samurai
Member
I don't give a damn about your corporate philosophy.
Your basicly telling your good performing employee he doesn't look representable enough and like him to adjust so he can make you more money so you eventualy you look good in your boss' book.
You don't give a damn about him personaly, do you?
Personaly, i only do business with real people that care about their employees that actualy deliver the goods.
my theory:
1 - motivated personel
2 - quality product
3 - satisfied customer
If Sunflower didn't give a damn about him, he'd have fired him and replaced him with someone that worked as well as him and actually gave a shit how he looked. The job market is full of qualified candidates for most any profession.
Race to be King
Banned
I can't grow a beard - would you still buy my wares?
Albino_Samurai
Member
Depends. Your not by any chance selling hairnosetrimmers are you?
I desperately need one.
the_log_ride
Member
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
This is business, he needs to be capable of making us more money if he wants a promotion. But hey, I do give a damn about him personally, or else I wouldn't ha--
Yes, that. I'd rather promote from within, and I know he's intelligent and I can see him doing much more for himself and the company, and I want to make that happen. If he doesn't want it, it'd obviously involve no promotion to being one of the main faces of the company (not like that, smarks) and to be quite honest, would be to me an employee who has no desire, which means he probably doesn't care as much as I had previously thought about his job.
Your list of 1,2,3 (not again, wrasslin fans) are all attainable with the look of success. Sure, you could go say, eat a burger from a place with motivated personnel and a quality product, but if the atmosphere is a shithole, you'd rather go to a place that does it all. We do it all. I need someone who can do it all.
fredrancour
Member
There are so many damn people in the world that, odds are, no matter how skilled you are, there's still at least one competitor as good at what you do as you are. The client probably has a choice between a bunch of sources that are all about equally qualified in terms of actual performance. Some of those highly qualified candidates will also fit their definition of "professional" in appearance. Thus, most markets are competitive enough that customers don't have to choose between getting something aesthetically pleasing and getting a good product. It's in a business's best interest to offer both. If the employee doesn't get it he probably shouldn't be in a position interacting with the customer for the time being.
FriedConsole
Banned
All these people who say they don't judge people by their appearances would think twice about their heart surgeon telling they will be OK while wearing a NASCAR tank top and jean cut off shorts.
AnotherNils
Member
As long as they've got a stethoscope and a lab coat I'm in.
GungHo
Single-handedly caused Exxon-Mobil to sue FOX, start World War 3
What industry are you in?
KibblesBits
Member
This is foolish.
jamesinclair
Banned
Youre really comparing a sterile work environment with some small-town midwest "entertainment" firm?
Zoe
Member
Why is it foolish? I wouldn't respect a manager who wants his people to be stationary grunts for the rest of their careers.
Albino_Samurai
Member
Realy, your defenition of "succes" is not mine, cause like i said, i don't care about money, status, achievements or any of that fake crap.
Perhaps your bearded empleyee doesn't either.
And i think you speculate to much.
If the personel is motivated they'll clean up the joint before i even get to order my veggieburger.
BronsonLee
Member
Money isn't real guys, just hand it over to me I'll dispose of it accordingly
...And veggie burger?!
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Ha I don't know if yours posts have been serious but I want to thank you for the Entertainment.
Albino_Samurai
Member
Entertainment.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Race to be King
Banned
Computer magazines. Basically the same thing.
FriedConsole
Banned
Some people are making blanket statements of "never judging people on the appearances" which is ridiculous.
BTW - I am talking about a sterile NASCAR tank top and cut off jean shorts.
You seem to live in a fantasy world. The corporate/professional culture is a lot different than what you're thinking. Sorry that it doesn't conform to your idealistic, la-la land standards.
OP, what you've said totally makes sense. If someone really wants to be promoted and move up, they'll be willing to hear what they need to change. If he's going to be dealing with clients, he needs to look as professional as possible since he'll be representing the company.
This is just common sense.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
My definition of intelligence is not what you know, it's how you apply it.
If he's not intelligent enough to see this obstacle, maybe he's not as intelligent as I thought.
If he's not intelligent enough to see this obstacle, maybe he's not as intelligent as I thought.
newdayrocks
Member
WordAssassin
Member
Dude, Sunflower. Why does him not wanting to change where he's at to move into a promotion YOU want FOR him, make you think he doesn't care about his job? That is ridiculous man.
You have said yourself he is incredibly good at what he does. YOU want this promotion for him, he apparently does not. Why can't he be happy where he is, doing good work, in an environment he's comfortable in? Just because he has potential, or you think you see potential there, doesn't mean he wants to climb the corporate ladder and start interfacing with customers. Maybe he just really likes where he is, enjoys doing that job, and wants to keep doing it?
If I work at a movie studio, and I do storyboards, and I'm really good at storyboards, and I love doing them, but one of my bosses has taken it upon himself to try and force a promotion on me that will take me out of storyboards and into something I'm not as familiar with or not as comfortable with like directing, why on earth would I want to take that promotion? And why in the blue blazes would that ever give anyone the impression that I don't care about my job?
Edit: I think a lot of people who are siding with the OP are forgetting that the Beard doesn't necessarily WANT this promotion. It was something Sunflower thought might be a good fit for him, suggested it, got turned down, and now is trying to forcibly guide Beard into. If it was a position Beard actively wanted but wouldn't change dress code for that would be one thing, but that isn't the case here.
You have said yourself he is incredibly good at what he does. YOU want this promotion for him, he apparently does not. Why can't he be happy where he is, doing good work, in an environment he's comfortable in? Just because he has potential, or you think you see potential there, doesn't mean he wants to climb the corporate ladder and start interfacing with customers. Maybe he just really likes where he is, enjoys doing that job, and wants to keep doing it?
If I work at a movie studio, and I do storyboards, and I'm really good at storyboards, and I love doing them, but one of my bosses has taken it upon himself to try and force a promotion on me that will take me out of storyboards and into something I'm not as familiar with or not as comfortable with like directing, why on earth would I want to take that promotion? And why in the blue blazes would that ever give anyone the impression that I don't care about my job?
Edit: I think a lot of people who are siding with the OP are forgetting that the Beard doesn't necessarily WANT this promotion. It was something Sunflower thought might be a good fit for him, suggested it, got turned down, and now is trying to forcibly guide Beard into. If it was a position Beard actively wanted but wouldn't change dress code for that would be one thing, but that isn't the case here.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
You've put others' words into a pretty easy to understand thing on my end. I think at the end of the day I'll unfortunately have to let him languish where he is. I just know he CAN do better things, and I want him to - and it's a hard pill for me to swallow to find people who don't want to bathe in money and look flush as hell.
You do realize that many people's life is not solely focused on money and power like yours right?
WordAssassin
Member
I mean, don't get me wrong. I totally see where you're coming from, and I've experienced it myself.
I've worked in customer service for over a decade now so I like to think I'm pretty good at talking to people and seeing all sides of an issue. I totally get that you see potential here in this Beard guy and want him to harness it. But I also can see from his point of view, at least with what info you've provided, that he might be perfectly happy where he is, kicking ass at what he's doing. He certainly shouldn't be punished for that, you know?
It's like I said earlier in the thread but I think it got washed over and unseen: the way I would have talked to him would have been to sit him down and say to him, "Look, Beard, you do great work. Really great, you're killing it. And if you're ok staying at this level, then that is your call. But there's a position that's open, and I think you would be really good at it. It would offer much more pay, but it would come at the cost of some added responsibilities and a much less casual dress code. I think you could kick ass at it, but I want you to be comfortable and happy working here, so the choice is ultimately up to you. If you'd like, I could have you shadow someone that does what you would be doing so you can see if it's something you're interested in." and then see how he responds to that.
Instead you just kind of decided that he would be good for this promotion so you just kind of... made the choice for him. And now he might fear for the job he currently has, thinking that if he doesn't take this promotion you've sorta shoved at him twice, he might get fired. If he goes and shaves his beard and comes to work in a suit to accept the promotion just because he doesn't want to get fired, then his work morale is gonna drop through the floor and he's gonna start hating the job.
How big of a raise would this promotion be? You make it sound like his salary would be doubled.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
I honestly have a hard time understanding that people aren't driven by that.
I mean, don't get me wrong. I totally see where you're coming from, and I've experienced it myself.
I've worked in customer service for over a decade now so I like to think I'm pretty good at talking to people and seeing all sides of an issue. I totally get that you see potential here in this Beard guy and want him to harness it. But I also can see from his point of view, at least with what info you've provided, that he might be perfectly happy where he is, kicking ass at what he's doing. He certainly shouldn't be punished for that, you know?
It's like I said earlier in the thread but I think it got washed over and unseen: the way I would have talked to him would have been to sit him down and say to him, "Look, Beard, you do great work. Really great, you're killing it. And if you're ok staying at this level, then that is your call. But there's a position that's open, and I think you would be really good at it. It would offer much more pay, but it would come at the cost of some added responsibilities and a much less casual dress code. I think you could kick ass at it, but I want you to be comfortable and happy working here, so the choice is ultimately up to you. If you'd like, I could have you shadow someone that does what you would be doing so you can see if it's something you're interested in." and then see how he responds to that.
Instead you just kind of decided that he would be good for this promotion so you just kind of... made the choice for him. And now he might fear for the job he currently has, thinking that if he doesn't take this promotion you've sorta shoved at him twice, he might get fired. If he goes and shaves his beard and comes to work in a suit to accept the promotion just because he doesn't want to get fired, then his work morale is gonna drop through the floor and he's gonna start hating the job.
Him hating the job or feeling under the gun isn't something I want him to feel. But at the same time I want all of my employees to be looking upwards, all the time. It's a tough thing.
It'd put him into six figures, almost doubling what he makes. Some negotiations, of course, but it is definitely VERY significant.
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