This happens to me. It is annoying. But really, I can't think of many situations where it's worth pointing out that somebody is articulate as a compliment. Maybe if they are truly some kind of word wizard, I would get it. But I think most people who are complimented for their articulateness simply speak with proper grammar and a somewhat expanded vocabulary.
"Exotic" might not be a compliment towards people
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This happens to me. It is annoying. But really, I can't think of many situations where it's worth pointing out that somebody is articulate as a compliment. Maybe if they are truly some kind of word wizard, I would get it. But I think most people who are complimented for their articulateness simply speak with proper grammar and a somewhat expanded vocabulary.
It's not relevant to the point I was making. I agree with you, but it's tangential here.
If you'd like me to explain why I think that then please feel free to PM me.
If there was a game being played, you would have lost by now. But I'm still tearing your game apart and I'm loving how close we're getting to the roots.
You are enjoying this way too much.
You haven't read my posts in this thread. Please re-read my posts and you will understand my position.
I'm not gonna entertain your accusations because they're baseless and you're just pathetically attempting to spin my words to fit your agenda.
It's impossible to force my feelings onto you if I walk away from you. I don't have to tell you how I feel about that word or any word I dislike, but your insistence won't change my mind.
You're telling me I'm being extreme because I wouldn't tell you I found that word offensive? You need to check yourself. I don't owe you anything. I've got more important things going on than entertaining someone who comes off creepy.
*rubs temples*
I.. alright. You know what? You got it. You're absolutely right and I'm not going to argue any of those points. You win.
Actually, my understanding of the word stems from personal experiences. If I was the only poster against using the word in such a manner, and I'm not, i would have held the same opinion.
I mean, what exactly are the logical foundations for its continued use?
1. The dictionary definition is innocuous - so are many other words not suitable for use on people.
2. Others are okay with it - and others aren't, so at what point do you draw a line in the sand? Who gets to decide? The people saying the word or the recipients? Does a certain percentage of a given population need to come to a consensus? Do opinions the masses necessarily possess virtue? When, not a century ago, racial epithets were a part of everyday conversation, did those who use them commit no wrong? In this very thread, you have male and female posters expressing their discomfort with the word when used on them; vocal, perhaps, but not few.
3. Too much trouble, people complain about everything all the time - is that really true? I suppose live in an incredibly liberal area, and I can count the words I had to learn to not use (because it wad otherwise somewhat commonly used by others around me) in one hand. The others aren't even close to coming up in regular conversation, so it's not been much effort at all. When was the last time you honestly had to use "exotic" to describe a person really?
4. Intentions matter - sure they do. And once someone tries to educate you as to why a word is uncomfortable to them, and you ignore it, your intention is to disregard their feelings on the matter, which is anything but noble.
So we shouldn't use words people can find offensive when offensive is subjective? That's the crux of the issue. We have to establish what is reasonable harm. Over reactions exist for a reason. This is one of them.
If you apply it to a thing or an animal then sure it's fine.
If somebody doesn't mind being called not native and an outsider then sure it's fine in that context as well. Most people do though.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I've noticed something.
People who were born in foreign countries are often quite proud of where they came from, they are often okay with being noticed as "exotic" because it means they're unique, and they actually hope you relate to them as being from that country (so you can share an interest in their culture and display a proper understanding of where they came from).
But if they were born here... It's different. Then they want to fit in. They don't want to stand out as different. They might dislike being related to as members of their cultural heritage.
Obviously there are exceptions to both types, but I think it's true that being 1st or 2nd generation immigrant is a huge divide in how they are okay with being noticed as different.
People who were born in foreign countries are often quite proud of where they came from, they are often okay with being noticed as "exotic" because it means they're unique, and they actually hope you relate to them as being from that country (so you can share an interest in their culture and display a proper understanding of where they came from).
But if they were born here... It's different. Then they want to fit in. They don't want to stand out as different. They might dislike being related to as members of their cultural heritage.
Obviously there are exceptions to both types, but I think it's true that being 1st or 2nd generation immigrant is a huge divide in how they are okay with being noticed as different.
It's just talk. No one believes that the these people accept that race, for example, is a offensive word to many Europeans and stop do use it. They just brush my post off as bullshit and still use it. They are the ones who choose which word is offensive and which is not.
stufte
Member
If that's how you or others interpret it, I'm not shocked that you would find it offensive.
It's been said 100x here, but when people say someone looks exotic, they mean rare or unique (in terms of beauty) in the positive sense.
If that's offensive to you then fine, but exotic is not by default offensive.
In my experience, being a foreigner in the US, the negative reactions I've seen have been zero. And I work for a global company. I've not heard of anyone ever saying exotic is a word that is exclusive for things and animals only.
Is it really all that hard? And who gets to decide what is reasonable harm, or what constitutes an overreaction? You? How would that be objective?
You are trying to dictate how someone should feel when you say something. People have limited power over how they feel about the words used for them. You have absolute power over the words you use. You are free to say them, but you have no right to decide how people think of the words you choose to say, and by extension, the quality of your character.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
All of these sorts of responses are tired as fuck. There are plenty of things we don't say because some people can take them as being marginalizing or having a racial element. We're doing fine. Try to catch up with the rest of us.
I can't believe this is still going on even after showing this is the exact shit Michael Scott's used on the Office. People are still lining up to say "I'm that guy, deal with it." If this is such a known thing that even the Office writers knew it was gross enough for Michael Scott to awkwardly say it, why would you fight for the chance to continue being him?
CountAntonius
Member
I've stated before that this thread has opened my eyes to an issue I never knew existed. Especially because my family is not from this country and though I was born here being called exotic has never offended me or anyone I've ever known. I have always taken it is as beauty with a unique quality.
The way it has been explained in this thread by people who have had their race treated as a fetish and seen as objectified has made me realize how this can possibly be taken in a negative light and I will personally be more mindful to it's use in the future now that I have this new perspective.
It still won't offend me however because I choose not to assume the worst in people. I don't think your aggressive stance of calling people creepy and socially inept based on your definition of the word is not a helpful one. I also think it's pretty rude and doesn't serve any purpose. You say you don't owe anyone an explanation. You're absolutely right but if you met them with a level headed explanation they may be more likely to reconsider it's use in the future Like I am. Instead you walk away disgusted and think "what a creep." How does this help anything? Especially given the fact that they may not be a creep and are just used to it being used as a compliment like many people are.
What I'm saying is we all need to treat each other with a bit more respect and stop assuming so damn much and I think the world would be a better place for it. This thread seems like a warzone and it's concerning that differences of the perception of a compliment can bring on so much animosity.
TheChewyWaffles
Member
Oh my god. Eventually adjective will be taboo.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
This is a good point. It reminds me of all the YouTube videos about similar issues with Asian people being awkwardly asked where they're from, and they're like "San Diego."
After all, are we still calling white people with European backgrounds foreigners or exotic? Everyone wants the same respect if they're born here. This is the place we associate with home, and people are still trying to say we're different.
radios shipping overview
Member
It's weird how people act like their TV privileges have been taken away when they're confronted with the idea that others might take their words in a way they didn't intend.
Regardless of your position on the word exotic, and there clearly are multiple positions that deserve to be heard, the most offensive part of this thread have been those that are attempting to stifle the conversation in the name of already deciding what is right and wrong. Your response, in fact, walks the same line as the post you've called out. If you feel there is no more discussion to be had and the matter is settled, I wonder why you would feel the need to again participate.
I think you've hit it right on the head.
Man, it's not even worth your time. There's a real failure to empathize in here.
It's weird how people think that because some people are offended by a word we should always avoid using it.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
I've read and agreed with some interpretations of the word, but in the end, why not respect how people feel about it?
There are hundreds of words like this. We're doing okay.
radios shipping overview
Member
Well, you're always free to disregard other people's feelings. But it might make you look like a bit of a dick.
That sounds like a perfectly legitimate reason not to say insulting things to other people? Any reason we shouldn't do that?
You are free to not find it offensive. I didn't say I found it insulting, but I don't find it a compliment either. Perception is key here, but the odds are stacked against us who dislike being objectified, and its reflecting in here.
I'm not being aggressive. Not at all. I'm wrong for finding a stranger creepy for calling me exotic? It's so outrageous, kinda funny, but still really wtf worthy for me.
I said anyone who thinks they can tell people what to feel offended by, or that (in the event they tell someone they're exotic and that person doesn't like it and defines it in a negative way) it's okay to disrespect these people and their opinions and that the world will conform to their tastes are socially inept. How is that rude? It's the truth. You can't do that in the real world, get over yourself or you're gonna have it rough out here.
I can't believe you don't see my hypothetical scenario of being out on my own in the world and approached by some stranger who calls me exotic or whatever, warrants me a right to walk away without saying anything. Why am I supposed to engage this person in conversation if I don't know them and can't gauge what their reaction may be? You're calling me aggressive but I think the accusation is misplaced. I have no control over how they feel, but I don't deserve to be forced to accept their inquiries.
If you understand the plight people deal with being fetishized, why can't you understand why we're not so eager to be accepting of something that usually borders on that? You talk of respect, but we're not getting it. There's people in here calling us sensitive and undermining our stance on the matter because they're afraid they're gonna have to make a change.
That is rude and dismissive, not what I'm doing at all.
I'm merely playing along because eventually the underlying reservations people have against this will reveal itself.
Because we've also heard from people that have been described as exotic and found it flattering. Additionally, we've heard about someone that was offended by being described as cute. Should we respect how that person feels and refrain from ever using cute to describe all people again?
Generally speaking, I try not to offend people. If there is a word that I know will offend a sizeable amount of people, I try not to use it. I'm sure I've said things that have offended people before without me really realizing it, but I try to cut it down as much as a knowingly can.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
It's about listening to how the person feels when they tell you it sucks. If you feel exotic is a good word to use, go for it, but try to have some empathy when a person tells you it makes them feel weird. I'd rather just not risk making a person feel like that if I know the problems behind the word. I definitely wouldn't be expecting a person to tell me "cute" hurts them, but I'd sure as fuck respect that after they tell me. That's how polite conversation works.
Will you do the same for the word cute?
edit: How about for all people? You now know that there are people that find cute offensive. Will you refrain from using it for all people now?
Like your thread about "ghetto people"? That certainly didn't work out too well.
CountAntonius
Member
You are not wrong for feeling anything. I guess I just disagree with your approach. But that's your perception and reaction so be it. I was sharing my opinions along with yours and why I feel a different approach to the issue may reach more people. Also the word empathy is getting tossed around here a lot but it only seems to apply one way. One cannot be empathetic to the ignorant and try to reach out to educate them on their offense before judging them?
It's not about disregarding people's feelings.
It's about not avoiding use of a word entirely because some people will be offended by it.
Do you really not see the difference?
Different people will be offended by different things, we all have varying levels of sensitivity. If you worry about the possibility of causing offence too much you'll never say anything.
The point is not to avoid use of words, but to use tact. And if you make offend someone, apologise. Congratulations, you now know this person a little better can can use this information to help guide your future relationship.
I really don't understand what's so difficult about this.
What' s a sizeable amount?
Where's the cut off?
Where's the real evidence that this word offends more people than it doesn't in this context?
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
You're asking me about basic manners we learned in elementary school. If someone says something sucks, you don't do it to that person anymore.
Cute doesn't have meaning other than "attractive in a pretty or endearing way" though. Exotic does mean "foreign" even if you want it to mean something else too.
Do you think it's unreasonable not to want to have it suggested that you are foreign?
It's kind of hypocritical isn't it? Worry about feelings but insult in the same manner. Never made much sense.
If I thought Little House on the Prairie was the best thing in the world, I still would be careful about telling someone they looked like they came straight out of the show, because they might not be going for that look. If someone says they tried to look exotic and are happy with how it turned out, I would agree with them and compliment them on their exotic looks. So yeah, using context to tell whether someone wants to be called cute is a really good idea in any situation where it might come up!
Nobody is going to die if you fuck it up. Try not to fuck up though if you care about that sort of thing.
Warm Machine
Member
I've personally defined it as sharp attractive features, and piercing eyes. Usually but not always combined with brown hair. Skin color is variable but usually tanned, so in between brown and white. The Milla Jovovich example is pretty on point. Belinda McClory from The Matrix also falls into this as does Olivia Wilde, and Megan Fox. Tyra Banks is a good example for an African American. To me it has little to do with race, certainly nothing to do with attitude, and more to describe a unique feature set.
So hold on here.
I think we're all creating a scenario where a person A comes up to person B, calls them 'exotic', person B states they don't like that, and person A insists on calling person B exotic.
However...
AFAIK, the idea is that we don't know who the person is or where they're from, and that person looks exotic to us (maybe some really unusual feature like a dress, or an ornament), so somehow a conversation is started, and person A mentions person B is exotic.
At this juncture is it really fair the person is being offensive or rude in any way? We're somehow adding more to a scenario and that's where we're diverging in our opinions on this.
I think the first scenario is what people like Liu Kang are talking about, whereas most of us are talking about the second scenario.
I think we're all creating a scenario where a person A comes up to person B, calls them 'exotic', person B states they don't like that, and person A insists on calling person B exotic.
However...
AFAIK, the idea is that we don't know who the person is or where they're from, and that person looks exotic to us (maybe some really unusual feature like a dress, or an ornament), so somehow a conversation is started, and person A mentions person B is exotic.
At this juncture is it really fair the person is being offensive or rude in any way? We're somehow adding more to a scenario and that's where we're diverging in our opinions on this.
I think the first scenario is what people like Liu Kang are talking about, whereas most of us are talking about the second scenario.
CountAntonius
Member
How I've always taken it as well. Good to see different perspectives on the matter though. Eye opening thread.
There is no defending a person who continues to do something another person asked them not to. I think where we are in the thread now is that some posters are saying this thread serves as that warning as a whole and some others believe because in their experience the offended are such a minority they don't see any fault in it's continued use.
It can mean foreign.
There's a significant difference.
I used to know a black girl who you could say looked exotic, not because she was black but because she looked unlike almost every person I'd ever seen. This was at college, and at that time I knew a lot of different people: African, Asian, European, etc...
She wasn't exotic because her ethnicity made her different, but her individual look.
It doesn't always mean foreign.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
To that person. Of course, that's common sense. That's not what's being asked of people here though.
phillipgessert
Member
Exotic basically means 'other'. Is it nice to call someone 'other'? Usually not. The word also sounds outdated and reminds me of 'oriental' in that way.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
Actually cute can be used to belittle someone.
Like if someone does something impressive, you can say
"Oh that's cute -_-"
Cute to me has always come across as childlike or childish.
Just saying
I remember a dude getting mad at me because I referred myself as Hispanic instead of Latino when I was in High School. Bugs the shit out me that I still have that in the back of my head when I talk about Latino/Hispanic. People take shit way to seriously sometimes.
Isn't the saying that the offender can't decide what's offensive? She associated cute with being a puppy. I think it's ridiculous but I also wouldn't have a problem with being called foreign. But the argument in these cases is always that the victim decides what's offensive and what not.
Zoe
Member
Black hair/blue eyes/pale skin does it for me. It's not something that would be considered unnatural or unlikely for caucasians, but I don't personally know anyone in real life with that combination.
CountAntonius
Member
I'll probably use this from now on. Not that I ever give compliments in person but I have used exotic to describe people I've seen in media. Strikingly beautiful does fit my use of exotic without leaving room for misinterpretation.
Understood. I kinda ducked out a while back so I missed most of the in-between.
I was very mellow earlier in the thread, and those people took my experiences and opinions, we talked and settled things. But now? There's been nothing of the sort. We've been going in circles with people playing victim and trying to make arguments out of thin air for selfish purposes.
You'll excuse me for not being as sweet and cuddly as I usually am. Once people start flipping the bird to people being fetishized, I'm not going to keep being polite. I'll be polite to newcomers that ask me questions, but if you're consistently being disrespectful, why should I keep being nice?
Every last one of us have accepted that context matters, yet still wanted to share, and yet we're called sensitive and rude. How is this a balanced feud? It isn't. We're arguing with people covering their eyes to unsee our points of view, and that's all. Nowhere is there disregard for people who don't have problems with the word. Nowhere.
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