(eXtas1s) Potentially Lots of New Info on Next Xbox(es)
- Thread starter thicc_girls_are_teh_best
- Start date
- Rumor Hardware Platform
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
We're back Xbros
Calverz
Member
The emoji trolls can't keep up
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
I don't know man lol. I wouldn't summon them. They're pretty good.
balls of snow
Member
Yeah I have around 120 games on xbox stranded on my account after selling my Series x. If they can somehow bring all of that over...damn.
But the leakers track record is spotty as fuck.
But the leakers track record is spotty as fuck.
ValiantInstance
Member
I'm gonna start calling my pc a 'windows-based xbox'.
ExtendEmbraceExtinguish
Member
This is the best news because if a company wants to win then providing games is the only way.
Humdinger
Gold Member
I don't see much appeal in it, apart from selling to a very hardcore group of Xbox fans willing to pay the premium. I can't see it drawing a lot of PS owners over.
I'm a PS-only guy, and I don't see the incentive. If I was itching to have access to Steam, I wouldn't go through Microsoft to get it. Why would I trust MS to integrate Steam smoothly and effectively, if they apparently can't even do that with their own storefront (on PC)? I don't see much of a difference between this and a PC, except you need to go through an Xbox middleman to get there. If I wanted Steam access, I'd either wait for the next Steam Deck or buy a PC.
Again, I don't see it appealing to any but very hardcore Xbox fans. I am assuming MS understands this and have set their sales expectations pretty low.
I'm a PS-only guy, and I don't see the incentive. If I was itching to have access to Steam, I wouldn't go through Microsoft to get it. Why would I trust MS to integrate Steam smoothly and effectively, if they apparently can't even do that with their own storefront (on PC)? I don't see much of a difference between this and a PC, except you need to go through an Xbox middleman to get there. If I wanted Steam access, I'd either wait for the next Steam Deck or buy a PC.
Again, I don't see it appealing to any but very hardcore Xbox fans. I am assuming MS understands this and have set their sales expectations pretty low.
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MikeM
Member
Im looking at sports games like NHL that never come to PC. Big W if that is the case.
mayham2199
Member
This. I'm a PS only guy. I've been on PC before and used Steam in big picture mode on my couch. It worked fine as it is. Steam is pretty much already capable of doing what MS is trying to do here. The only selling point is Game pass on PC. I also wouldn't be a fan of my trophies/achievements being split up between Steam and Xbox I like all my stuff under the same ecosystem.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
memoryman3
Member
No one here has given a compelling case as to why this would be better for the Xbox audience than what they already have with Xbox Series X|S. Is it the Sony exclusives?
Calverz
Member
I wouldn't worry about dudes who go to sleep in their single beds, under their PlayStation duvets.
Calverz
Member
Thanks for wasting your time.
mayham2199
Member
Yes the Sony exclusives.
Surely not your entire library, Calv? You must have a few favourite 360 games that were never made backwards compatible?
Dreams do come true after all, Ribeye.
EverydayBeast
ChatGPT 0.001
Consoles take on a lot of things we're talking about playing games, movies, streaming and now add Steam to the list.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
They're using Steam as if Xbox is doing Valve a favor. Thinking that Sony wouldn't block their games from running on Xbox via Steam is completely delusional (that's even assuming they can make this wet dream work) they're grasping at straws to find some kind relevance, and because Xbox is so shit (brand/hardware wise) they need to use steam instead
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
The reason why gaming's required multiple systems is because when companies tried to do a "one-size-fits-all" approach (i.e 3DO), technology was still in its infancy for gaming, as were certain business models and game design approaches, in order to actually facilitate that. Imagine if 3DO became the standard for 3D gaming right as 3D gaming was actually getting widespread adoption; we probably would've never gotten things like Dreamcast's tile-based deferred rendering, or the PS2's eDRAM, or the Cell processor, or 360's unified shader, or the Wii & DS as just some examples.
Maybe it's a bit different now due to traditional gaming reaching a point of diminishing returns, industry-wide supported engines (i.e Unreal), establishment of many "best practices" in various genres & games selling models, general advancement of game graphics relative to realistic costs for technology powering them, and so on, but I don't think that means gaming as a whole has reached a point where a "one box/one standard for all" approach is suitable. We've barely cracked VR gaming as a mass market standard, haven't fully pushed into areas of haptic feedback (in many ways modern gaming is behind what arcades were doing decades ago, i.e I've still yet to see a single home game replicate the R360 cabinet for flight sim force feedback), things like MR (mixed reality) are still MIA in gaming (mostly, tho there have been some attempts, like that one Mario Kart game on Switch), etc.
So to me gaming as a whole still has a ways to go before one box or one technology standard can truly provide "everything".
I remember hearing that MS providing outright emulation of older Xbox games or even modern games on PC would not be possible for the legal stuff you're talking about, but couldn't an emulator that just emulates the hardware itself skirt around that? I'm sure companies like Intel & Nvidia would be okay with granting permission for an official OG Xbox emulation layer or whatever on Windows if MS were making it, but the means of actually playing those games? That would be up to the player.
Realistically MS can't get the license for every Xbox game across four generations to re-sell them on PC, but can they for example just provide ways for existing users to transfer content they've already purchased across devices and let the emulator access them from there? That doesn't seem the same as selling the games themselves, and I don't think it should infringe on any legal stuff.
About extas1s himself tho, yeah I don't know his track record with these things, I'm guessing it's not great. As far as Xbox-related leaks outside of here (particularly non-hardware related) I put any real faith in, that's basically just the Gestridens Discord one because basically everything there has ended up happening over the past 18 months. Besides, at this point MS making Xbox PC devices isn't even news anymore IMO; it's the way they plan on executing that I'm more interested in.
Even now, there's still the issue they could simply have too many configurations of devices in terms of performance, and that can introduce confusion & alienate customers by overloading them with too much choice. If it's basically going to be like what they've done with Surface devices, I don't know how well that actually translates to a gaming platform. This is still MS's initiative so they are still the platform holder, so they have to standardize a lot of things when it comes to the performance and technologies involved in order to guarantee customers certain experiences at certain device brackets.
I don't see how that works if they're just truly making otherwise generic OEM PCs with Xbox stickers slapped on them, and an Xbox-like UI that still has to run on top of regular Windows with all of the issues that brings to bottleneck optimized PC gaming. The effort has to be a lot more substantive than that to stick, otherwise it'll just come off as performative and likely fail.
BlackTron
Member
The plan isn't for a lot of people to buy it. If they thought they could get a lot of people to buy a game console, they would subsidize it and sell games on it.
This is the plan for not selling a lot of game consoles.
BlackTron
Member
Unfortunately valid point. When you buy a game on Xbox, you are buying a license to play said game on Xbox. A publisher, say Capcom, might take issue with Microsoft emulating the Xbox version of Resident Evil on a PC, thereby saving you from having to buy, well, a PC version.
Sure, MS could fix this in a second with their first party games, but across the storefront, it's an impossible legal quagmire. They couldn't even get approval to emulate all the old Xbox games on new Xbox hardware because it was a different platform; each game had to be approved individually.
Itchy Tickles
Member
They are suggesting that it will be the same Steam account from PC so why would anyone buy it on Steam and then Xbox again if this rumoured console has both? Publishers will lose out massively.
Games are absolutely cheaper on PC, always have been with the odd exception. Its not just "grey markets" that sell them cheaper, but partnered sites also always have discounts on new releases. Games on console are always max price day 1. (Then of course sales, bundles, free games etc on PC make it so much more cheaper.)
To be clear, I am in no way saying this crazy rumour would be a bad thing for gamers, it would be insanely positive, I'm saying that publishers and stock holders would not accept losing money like that. They will keep jacking up prices or maybe Microsoft will pay them a massive amount like they would pay for Gamepass access.
I can't see Steam allowing a modified store either, they have been notorious for being pro consumer, so how would PS games on Steam work on Xbox? What about all the keyboard and mouse only games? I think making a console only user be forced to use it would be a blocking point.
Also on a side note, if Steam is on Xbox, how are they going to get around all the third party launchers like EA and Ubisoft?
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
IMO, and this has nothing to do with this extas1s stuff (which may not even be accurate) but more so something I've thought since the Discord leak last year,....I think some of these will be modular. If there are handhelds, not those obviously. But ones with a more console-like form factor? I don't see why not.
I mean, if they're trying to offer something that acts as a bridge between traditional consoles and PCs but with benefits of both...how do you not have devices with modularity when that is one of the benefits of PC gaming? If they do that, it'll have to be in a way where the process is completely streamlined, but thankfully there are older consoles and some microcomputers (non-PC) they can look at to see how it's done.
Well, 32X had some compatibility issues with certain Genesis models and needed some things to make it work right, but that was also a rushed product. Other stuff like the N64 Expansion Pak, or Saturn's RAM cartridges, or some of the video card upgrades for Amiga systems were a lot more streamlined and "just worked". They offered modularity/upgradability that was simple to understand and didn't require messing around with drivers or crap like it.
That's basically what Microsoft (and if/when Valve look into more device types with modularity, them too) will have to achieve to make modularity work. Simplicity like those other systems/devices mentioned, but with a few more options like with PC.
They aren't making another Xbox console. These rumored PC/console hybrid devices are the new Xbox "console". They aren't going to make all this effort with integrating Xbox features & emulation to Windows while also supporting Xbox OS, for example.
Bolded makes me question why SIE have been so open to MS games on PlayStation. Between that possibility in the future, and the more immediate thing with MS competing more as a publisher (even publishing games of OTHER publishers i.e Ninja Gaiden 4), and SIE knowing they can't net exclusivity deals or even marketing rights with MS-owned games the way they can (in theory) with other 3P, I feel sometimes they are making themselves too dependent on a single (growing) 3P publisher.
And long-term, that's not a good thing for a platform holder to do. So either SIE are doing a major boost in their 1P development (more consistent AAA releases, smarter approach to GAAS, more AA releases, potentially acquire another publisher and/or more studios to increase game output), or they don't care about becoming increasingly reliant on a single publisher (a mistake IMO, considering that publisher in particular has been a direct competitor for 2 decades).
Well, if it comes to that, MS would still probably consider the initiative successful if it retains PC gamers in the Windows ecosystem. That's probably the main reason they want to do it, alongside bring in more console gamers to Windows for PC gaming specifically. And, while it'd enrich Steam, that'd be Steam being enriched as a product within the Windows ecosystem. Meaning, less people going to something like Steam OS for their Steam access.
Microsoft would certainly prefer that; Valve would tolerate it happening but would likely prefer unshackling PC gamers from Windows as much as possible. I guess over time we'll see which approach wins out.
TBF, the Steam Deck was not available in brick-and-mortar stores (AFAIK) until very recently. Valve also do like zero advertising for the thing outside of their own storefront from time to time, but it's nothing on the level of what we've seen from SIE marketing PlayStation hardware, or Nintendo, or even Microsoft for that matter.
I feel Steam Deck sales have been supply-constrained in a way; if they were in retail stores from the start and more traditional advertising existed, they'd probably be closer to 10 million right now. Consider things like the Oculus have sold 10 or so million and they have nowhere near the brand of a games platform as Steam, but they were backed by a massive company in Meta, with tons of advertising and sales in retail outlets.
Don't know what the cap for the "consolized PC" game device market is, but it'll likely only grow over time. Valve are in the best position to do it in practice, but Microsoft are arguably in the best position in theory. If they half-ass this effort though, then we'll know they can't actually pull it off, and that'll suck for them.
BlackTron
Member
You didn't bold anything, but you must be referring to the implication of my Order 66 line.
Of course, if they think they would benefit, MS would do a 180 on their "partners" overnight. Sony probably does not care, because Xbox is usually too incompetent and even if they try, it will probably be a bad idea that will make Sony stronger. Sony would probably just tame them back into line and go back to making money off their desperation like a misbehaving skank
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II_JumPeR_I
Member
Sounds terrible.
Wish Microsoft would get rid of that "Xbox" branding.
Call yourself Microsoft Gaming and go back to the Microsoft Game Studios.
All this doesnt sound like Xbox.
Wish Microsoft would get rid of that "Xbox" branding.
Call yourself Microsoft Gaming and go back to the Microsoft Game Studios.
All this doesnt sound like Xbox.
BlackTron
Member
ChuckeRearmed
Member
If it works like they envision, it will be a very interesting device.
mayham2199
Member
They are both becoming reliant on each other. MS is actually in a worse position because if their games fail they end up losing a ton of money. Sony on the other hand just has to rely on the gaming market being healthy.
For instance lets say COD bombs and users just drop off the game massively 75% of players gone and sales of each COD drop by 75%. That's going to massively hurt MS. Now if those players go to lets say Fortnite or Marvel Rivals, Sony is going to be fine. Yes, they'll lose some money because they don't get that 30% anymore but they'll still be making money off the MTX from those users moving to other games. While MS will make nothing from any of that.
The chances of Xbox pulling the games off Sony isn't even a situation I entertain.
Yekshemesh
Member
So basically 3 million people?
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Nah. This could mean them taking issue with everything you do with the games other than playing them on X360, including lending to someone or sticking into someone's ass.
And growing.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Oh you know what? This might've been what K KeplerL2 was referring to. I didn't think about it like that until you used the Capcom example.
Hmm...yeah that could create some complications, huh? The thing about Play Anywhere is, it's only Microsoft games that actually use it. So for their games, this scenario isn't an issue. The problem would arise with 3P titles, which constitute most of the library.
This is why I was thinking that MS just emulate the hardware itself, and not the games. Because at that point, the ability to run that Xbox version of RE on the PC-based Xbox device, would be on the end user. If the end user already purchased the Xbox version of the game, then it's just a matter of MS providing means of them running that version on the emulated hardware instance, and on that note I don't think there should be an issue with 3P publishers. But that's just me guessing, I don't know enough on the legalities of it to say if that's true in practice.
Emulating the hardware, though, should be fundamentally different from emulating the actual game, and since the emulation would be officially MS's own there are ways they can enforce authentication of game copies running in it, that you wouldn't see from unofficial emulations (because they aren't interested in that type of thing).
Yekshemesh
Member
Sounds great. Good news 3rd party devs/pubs, you don't have to make xbox ports anymore. Just spend precious dev time on the steam/PS/nintendo versions and call it a day.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
For the infinitesely time, they suck for shooters, RTSs, WoWs, Diablos... But good thing you can use m+kb on every handheld PC. \o/But, but, controller controls.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
For people without a powerful Desktop to play some "light " games plugged on a big screen.
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BlackTron
Member
What?
The reason many old games skipped the BC program was simply because MS was unable to get the agreement to do it. It wasn't just the software work. This is directly from them, their excuse that the program was ending was that they were running out of willing publishers. Sure, it picked up again later...when they purchased a publisher, taking away the roadblocks for those titles.
Taking issue with everything you do with a game other than playing it on 360 is exactly the point. That publisher would prefer you to buy it again.
"Can I play my Xbox game on Playstation"
"No, buy the Playstation version"
Replace Playstation with Steam. Exact same shit to a publisher.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Just play your PC on the big-screen then if you're already KB/Ming it. I think you're just being silly now.
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rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
The can do the port too as there are 30 million current gen Xbox out there yet.
What part of "people without a powerful Desktop" was not clear??
Just play your PC on the big-screen then if you're already KB/Ming it. I think you're just being silly now.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
And 99.999999% hold a handheld in their hands.
mayham2199
Member
No he's not reliable.