Foliorum Viridum
Banned
"Maybe they will fix it in a patch" has been their MO since 2010. I say fuck that now. Three years in, you shouldn't be able to do it like that.
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F1 2012 |OT| 2011 + 1
- Thread starter Foliorum Viridum
- Start date
Probably more like EA and Madden Syndrome. What's the incentive? People will buy anyways if they want the latest update. So keep development costs to a minimum (aside from huge license cost), because anything else is just cutting into your profits.
Sleeplessnights
Banned
I always thought there was something off about their review. To be honest I did believe it but I had been thinking about getting the game prior to watching their review and the decided against it after watching.
Looking back at their F1 2010 and 2011 reviews it definitely feels like not enough time was invested in playing the games.
Using the assets they already have they'd get it done in time and would do a better job than most of the developers out there.
We should've bought Bizarre when we had the chance :/
He may well be, but the arrogance he's displayed when being asked (in quite a tempered fashion, I might add) about things like brake balance and the FP stuff absolutely astounds me. If you make some pretty significant design decisions, prepare to take criticism constructively rather than acting like you know better. I'd probably be reacting to the reception of this game significantly differently if he'd acted better.Bah, Steve is a nice guy. I've interviewd him once. He's cool...
I think you are looking at this from the wrong way.
I really think that Codemasters did a phenomenal job with basic engine for this game and clearly we can say that combining everything we have from 2010/2011/2012 would make a hell of a F1 game.
Imagine best parts of all 3 games presented in one overall package and throw in some potential possibilities that arise from such consecutive development (as idea of having real data from previous years to create actual career).
What we're seeing here is not lack of vision/arrogance/incompetence or such. What we're seeing is clear move that becomes prevalent in majority of current racing games, where plethora of potentially important features for more demanding players are being either dumbed-down or scrapped out because someone important in final decision-making process finds them unnecessary. And yes, I am looking a 5% cockpit players here too Codemasters (I can put my hand in fire how actual coders and programmers there can pull-out cockpits with stable 30fps, but it is not their decision).
Personally, I blame various *focus-groups*, influence of *journalists* and some white-collar heads who are desperate in keeping their *vision* and *forecasts* alive while sacrificing whatever they can in order to promote their vision (and keep their bonus alive).
I am 100% certain how current state of EGO 2.0 engine that powers F1 2012 is more than capable to deliver anything needed for greatest F1 game ever made. But cutting down everything to *something* has nothing to do with 99% of Codemasters employees. I congratulate to complete F1 team for their work done on foundations of the F1 game. But for the rest 1% of actual decision-makers...
I really wonder how can't they understand that casualisation leads to trivialisation and trivialisation leads to ignorance. If I can understand that - and I am not an *industry professional* by any mean - why can't they? Can't they learn from their own experiences? Or from experiences of others... because graveyard of driving franchises died because of the Make It Casual™ syndrome is really vast these days..
Foliorum Viridum
Banned
2011 handling
Fleshed out online mode, 24 players
Fixed glitches/penalties/Safety Car
Perfect game right there.
Fleshed out online mode, 24 players
Fixed glitches/penalties/Safety Car
Perfect game right there.
You're mostly right. But that's the thing though... any of the teams I mentioned I doubt would have succumbed to those sorts of pressures, or at least stuck to their guns a little more. As it appears now, each of the decisions were done by Codemasters themselves and not higher-ups. At least, that's the impression I get from their spokespeople.
Perhaps they should take it a little more tactfully rather than getting on the offensive when someone asks them about a feature/bug. As it is, all I can see is that as far as they're concerned, the developer knows more about what the gamer wants, not the suits and certainly not the general public.
And yeah, it does suck. Not a lot needed to be done to make a great game from last year's. At least we have some pretty decent 2012 mods for 2011!
While he does seem a nice guy on twitter, he is completely mishandling the F1 2012 launch fiasco.
Yesterday, when asked about "no tyre scaling" he complained about how people were getting their pitchforks ready without knowing if it was true or the reasons behind that decision. Then some people politely asked if it was true and what were those reasons and he basically gave them a non-answer. Great job Steve!
Completely agree. If you launch a piece of shit, the "maybe they will fix it in a patch" doesn't fly anymore.
It's very clear that F1 2012 was dumbed down to appeal to casual users. You just have to take a look at people praising the game, 95% of them are either controller users or Codemasters apologists.
Codemasters is betting that hardcore fans are still going to buy the game because they love F1 and this is the only F1 game on the market while trying to get a bigger share of the casual market. What they seem to ignore is how fickle the casual market is and the same way they seem interested on the game this year, they will probably ignore it next year while getting interested on the new shining thing. The problem for them is that after this year, maybe the hardcore will ignore it also.
Then they will come out and say they are not renewing the license because the "hardcore" racing genre is rapidly shrinking and the F1 license is not profitable anymore.
Add spectator mode and a decent career mode.
Foliorum Viridum
Banned
Spectator would be awesome for streaming league races etc.
Single player features? Pfft, if you're a billy no mates maybe!
And if they are, isn't there a website where they can join a fantastic community that is passionate about motorsport AND racing games?
BolognaSoup
Member
I've never played an F1 game before but had a lot of fun with the PC demo. Will buy this on a Steam sale. I don't understand the things people are complaining about. Ignorance is bliss.
Exactly... picking this up this morning sand never returning to this thread until the people who are not going to buy it are done venting.
24 player MP, but additional 12 players can join the game as team leaders and pitstop managers.
Internal voiceover support, drivers can only talk with their teammate and pitstop.
HUD with no tire/distance to other players/lap/position info.
As an added bonus, 1-3 person team that will have "charlie powers", deciding fate of all race incidents in real time.
MP F1 GAME OF THE CENTURY.
dinosaur_hunter2
Member
The people venting are the biggest fans of the franchise. Almost everyone here play the F1 games since the 2010 version and it's really sad to see Codemasters' fuckups. That's not "venting", all complaints here are legitimate because those problems can/could ruin the whole experience.Exactly... picking this up this morning sand never returning to this thread until the people who are not going to buy it are done venting.
Please, bear with us complaining about the game's flaws. Believe me, there are serious flaws in there if everything the people playing it already are saying is true. I'll be able to see it for myself tomorrow (or as soon as Steam allows me to play it).
Exactly... picking this up this morning sand never returning to this thread until the people who are not going to buy it are done venting.
If you're content to play it in an arcade'ish way and ignore the multiplayer aspect completely, I'm sure you'll have a lot of fun.
However that doesn't mean the game is great overall, it has tons of major flaws (and especially incoherences) that you're willing to ignore completely, good for you.
Some people aren't willing to overlook them...
MiniBossBattle
Member
Wow, I skipped 2011 to get 2012 and you guys are saying the previous game is better? yeesh.
Waldo Lydecker
Member
Also, I rather have shitty graphics with 60fps on my PS3 than this wacky framerate this series has.
M.W.
Gold Member
I know what you mean. Might just pick up 2011 today instead.
Yep, I'm new to the series and i'm picking up F1 2011.
I just need one info from the fans of the series: what is the best title simulation-wise in the series so far?
Ok, I know that I shouldn't expect a pure simulation from Codemasters, but still.
BTW, tried the demo, not impressed.
Foliorum Viridum
Banned
2011 is your only choice. 2010's handling is abysmal. Some people will tell you it's more sim, they're wrong. It's just downright bad.
2011 has engine mapping, KERS and DRS plus a great driving model. Go with that, it's more sim in my eyes.
2011 has engine mapping, KERS and DRS plus a great driving model. Go with that, it's more sim in my eyes.
Waldo Lydecker
Member
How about Kickstarter: Grand Prix Legends 2 (PS3/Xbox360/PC)?
I mean look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Gq6U7uH63c
(off-topic how about Kickstarter: Transport Tycoon PS Vita)
And does anybody know what Geoff Crammond is up to these days?
I mean look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Gq6U7uH63c
(off-topic how about Kickstarter: Transport Tycoon PS Vita)
And does anybody know what Geoff Crammond is up to these days?
Exactly... picking this up this morning sand never returning to this thread until the people who are not going to buy it are done venting.
You do know the people venting are like....the people who compete in the leagues, followed the game religiously, spent countless hours making community vids and have had meet ups in RL thanks to our community?
Yeah. There's a reason a lot of people are miffed.
Foliorum Viridum
Banned
What Lucius means is:
OH YEAH IT'S BACK
OH YEAH IT'S BACK
XANDER CAGE
Member
I seriously don't get how this game looks so bad on Xbox. The car textures are just... it doesn't look right.
criesofthepast
Member
I actually played 2011 this past weekend for the first time at a buddy's house and HATED the controls at first. Coming from 2010 being like 5 seasons deep and playin that a ton the past few years. I just could not get used to it. Then 5 hours later I found myself still playing it and I went home and booted up 2010 and was like WTF IS THIS SHIT. ~_~
So, lesson learned: 2011 handling is better. Takes some time to get used to though. Especially if so used to 2010.
The cars in 2011 are too tail happy. I usually let the rear suspension a bit higher and softer (like in a wet setup) to solve this issue.
Anyway, the only real problem with 2012 to me until now is with the tire wear. Is it confirmed or just a rumor yet? I dunno, I respect everyone's opinions, but nobody seems to point out the improvements, like the better IA, better graphics and better otimization, for example...
Anyway, the only real problem with 2012 to me until now is with the tire wear. Is it confirmed or just a rumor yet? I dunno, I respect everyone's opinions, but nobody seems to point out the improvements, like the better IA, better graphics and better otimization, for example...
Foliorum Viridum
Banned
Yup. We went back to F1 2010 a few weeks ago for nostalgia and dear lord it's shit after 200+ hours in 2011. Anyone who says the handling is better is a mentalist.
Also, someone from a different community is doing a live PC stream in about two hours. I'll post the link when it's up!
Exactly... picking this up this morning sand never returning to this thread until the people who are not going to buy it are done venting.
That's exactly the correct attitude to have. Dismiss every complaint as venting. You should apply for a job to Codemasters PR, you definitely would fit right in.
Did they improve the AI from the demo to the full game? Because the AI in the demo is still as dumb as the previous games.
DownWithTheShip
Member
Tried to play the demo last night with the MS Speed Wheel but quit before I even played.
Before racing it has you go over the controls, like how to steer and how to manually shift. There are no RB and LB buttons on the Speed Wheel, so i'm not able to complete the very basic tutorial on manual shifting. It even has MS Speed Wheel listed as the controller in the options, but it still tries to make me use buttons I don't have in the tutorial. I can't seem to skip the tutorial.
I'll setup with a standard controller later, but it's pretty lame I can't even start a game with the Speed Wheel. Hopefully the tutorial doesn't come up every time I play the demo.
Before racing it has you go over the controls, like how to steer and how to manually shift. There are no RB and LB buttons on the Speed Wheel, so i'm not able to complete the very basic tutorial on manual shifting. It even has MS Speed Wheel listed as the controller in the options, but it still tries to make me use buttons I don't have in the tutorial. I can't seem to skip the tutorial.
I'll setup with a standard controller later, but it's pretty lame I can't even start a game with the Speed Wheel. Hopefully the tutorial doesn't come up every time I play the demo.
Nah, in 2010 and 2011 the IA needed the whole track to overtake you, while 2012's demand a lot less space. Give it a little space, and it will overtake you. In 2011 they simply break if you close the door a little...
Foliorum Viridum
Banned
PC stream live now: http://www.twitch.tv/lowkeyedup
We'll be testing:
1) Tyre deg on a 50% race.
2) Ability to tune out the understeer from the demo.
3) Better braking with small/high pressure
4) Can I get it to brake loose around corners and at the start with no TC.
And lots more! Tune in and let us know what else you want done!
We'll be testing:
1) Tyre deg on a 50% race.
2) Ability to tune out the understeer from the demo.
3) Better braking with small/high pressure
4) Can I get it to brake loose around corners and at the start with no TC.
And lots more! Tune in and let us know what else you want done!
Heh, my friend is telling me that T4RG4 is there? I wish I could open it at work haha.
Foliorum Viridum
Banned
Nope, it's not really him. However:
We're pretty stoked!
We're pretty stoked!
Foliorum Viridum
Banned
Looking good so far guys!
dinosaur_hunter2
Member
Foliorum Viridum
Banned
We're still doing tests... but it looks like a lot of the posts were bullshit.
Unfortunately, not going to happen. David Kaemmer, the guy behind GPL, went on to form iracing. Don't see him abandoning that anytime soon.
Geoff Crammond was the man behind the Grand Prix games (but not Grand Prix Legends). And he's apparently fallen off the face of the planet.
Big Takeover
Member
Like 2011, you'll need to get creative with the control layout when using the Speed Wheel. Some buttons HAVE to be mapped like the all the quick menu buttons. The back button needs to be used for remapping as well.
You'll lose the use of some things, but nothing imperative, imo. KERS, DRS, gear up/down, look back - you can get all of that to work.
It's fun as hell with the once you can it up and running.
Foliorum Viridum
Banned
Right guys, it will be archived here: http://www.twitch.tv/lowkeyedup (a very fun watch!)
Basically -
1) The handling for the top cars looks much better in regards to understeer/braking.
2) Tyres are definitely not scaled, but we can still see some strategy being there.
3) We could not bring out the safety car AT ALL. The races always got red flagged or we just got a penalty. Very odd.
All in all, I think it was a shite demo and some people being hyperbolic on the forums about the issues.
Thanks VERY much to GAFer LowKeyedUp for not only getting us a stream that had 2000+ people watching, but also being entertaining as hell.
Basically -
1) The handling for the top cars looks much better in regards to understeer/braking.
2) Tyres are definitely not scaled, but we can still see some strategy being there.
3) We could not bring out the safety car AT ALL. The races always got red flagged or we just got a penalty. Very odd.
All in all, I think it was a shite demo and some people being hyperbolic on the forums about the issues.
Thanks VERY much to GAFer LowKeyedUp for not only getting us a stream that had 2000+ people watching, but also being entertaining as hell.
dinosaur_hunter2
Member
The question is: will you be joining us in the league, Foliorum?
Foliorum Viridum
Banned
Of course! I was always dying for the game to be good so I could take part in it, especially since I'm the one organising it
I feel confident I can buy it now and have fun. I'm not confident it will be better than 2011, but hey, if we can have a fun league I'm happy.
I feel confident I can buy it now and have fun. I'm not confident it will be better than 2011, but hey, if we can have a fun league I'm happy.
Brazil.
Hey, Foliorum Viridum just PM'd me! I'll take a look on the rules to see if I'll be able to be part of it.