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Failed military coup in Turkey; Erdogan promising swift reprisal

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UV-6

Member
The ironic thing is, it's likely that the coup was staged by Erdogan to gain more support/power. There could be mountains of hard evidence to show this but there isn't a single person in Turkey that could do anything about. He has a hand in everything. He can fire and place his men anywhere he wants. All report to him and carry out his work.

GG Turkey. I have family there, but I can't see myself going back there ever again.
 
:/ I hope those on the base are safe and that the ones already in the air gets back without issues.


Also publicly announcing journalist names as the opposition during the tense times right now is mighty irresponsible and almost like they want something to happen to them. It also seems they've had that list ready for a long time.
They probably already had the lists ready and were just waiting for the right time to crack down on the judges and journalists again. Disgusting events.

The quote makes it seem the airplanes were still allowed to land. And otherwise there are enough options to go to for them. Doubt foreign soldiers will be targeted.

Might be? There was no realistic scenario in which a coup would have any positive short-to-medium-term impact. A "successful" coup was guaranteed to immediately feature massive fatalities along with a huge crackdown on civil/human rights, similar to what happened in Egypt. In the medium term, civil war would be very likely, creating a new breeding ground for ISIS terror, similar to what happened in Iraq, Libya, and Syria. A failed coup, well, would lead to exactly what we're seeing now -- a consolidation of power in the hands of Erdogan and a heightened resistance to any opposition.
I don't think you can compare the situations. Iraq, Libya and Syria are that way because of religious divide and tribalism. Turkey has minority groups, but not in the same way. So a civil war between Turks is not going to happen as quickly.

It would have certainly come with its share of violence, but if the total military had been united behind the coup and established order and call for new elections within a reasonable time, it could have worked.
 

Arksy

Member
There's a huge misunderstanding from people in here that because Erdogan and his supporters are devout, they want to restore the Caliphate and introduce Sharia law...it's so far from the mark that it's not funny. Most of Erdogan's supporter base is highly religious, without wanting a clerical or sharia state. I can't see any circumstance where Turkey devolves into a second Islamic Republic.
 
Turkish parliament is convening

Military Chief Hulusi Akar is there, he was the one who was held hostage, they say
VdJrDWP.jpg

 

Tecnniqe

Banned
They probably already had the lists ready and were just waiting for the right time to crack down on the judges and journalists again. Disgusting events.

The quote makes it seem the airplanes were still allowed to land. And otherwise there are enough options to go to for them. Doubt foreign soldiers will be targeted.
While they may not be targeted all we need is a stray or accidental shot during their witch hunt on the base and around it for this to escalate.
 
While they may not be targeted all we need is a stray or accudential shot during their witch hunt on the base and around it for this to escalate.
Not really. Remember Turkey shot down a Russian airplane for little reason? They didn't go to war or anything. If a NATO soldier accidentally get shot, it will be brought up as an accident, nothing more.
 

spekkeh

Banned
I'm very much against Erdogan's autocratic tendencies and treatment of the Kurdish minority, but there's no denying that he's been tremendously successful in raising Turkey's status in the world and turning it from a stalled nation into an economic success, creating a much higher standard of living for its citizens, who in turn are hugely supportive or at least accepting of his rule.
Turkey's status in the world.

You might want to rethink that.

There's no denying the economic prosperity during his first term. Like Putin in Russia.
 

Markoman

Member
Just watched Turkish prime minister Yildirim speak in front of the Turkish parliament. I just can't get the smell of rotten fish out of my noise.

His speech was almost suspiciously bulit on "democracy" pathos.

Please, help me understand - especially TurkGaf:

They have fired 3000 judges: let me guess, that's every Turkish judge in a major position.
So there goes the first pillar of democracy. How do you even replace that many judges in key positions? Judges don't grow on trees. How are those judge even linked to some military coupists?

Cleansing of military has already been announced - there's your second pillar. Just wait for police to be restructured very soon.

The actual coup: let's look at similar events. When Staufenberg and some Wehrmacht higher-ups planned the assassination of Hitler under the circumstances Germany was in at that time, there was a good chance that the whole Nazi regime would crumble once the head was cut off.
Let's look at Turkey: yes, we can assume at least half of the Turkish population supports Erdogan. I haven't heard of any uprisings of the Tukish general public against Erdogan recently. So under this circumstances, how can any military leader plotting a coup expect that a major part of the population and Turkish army will support this? Do we even know how many soldiers were involved in the plot?
 

spekkeh

Banned
There's a huge misunderstanding from people in here that because Erdogan and his supporters are devout, they want to restore the Caliphate and introduce Sharia law...it's so far from the mark that it's not funny. Most of Erdogan's supporter base is highly religious, without wanting a clerical or sharia state. I can't see any circumstance where Turkey devolves into a second Islamic Republic.
I definitely think Erdogan wants to be Sultan, just look at his palace ffs and his continuous flirting with the Ottoman Empire. However, I don't think he will be able to. He's not going to introduce Sharia law, but it will be absolutely bumfuckery for anyone not (Diyanet approved) Sunni.
 

Tecnniqe

Banned
Interesting? Dude people are dying.
Events unfolding can't be interesting if there's loss of life?
Not really. Remember Turkey shot down a Russian airplane for little reason? They didn't go to war or anything. If a NATO soldier accidentally get shot, it will be brought up as an accident, nothing more.
Pretty sure the reason Russia don't mess with them is due to NATO, but if they kill NATO soldiers then the tune might change, regardless of its get written off as a accident or not.
But it's interesting!

*sips Red Bull*
FTFY
 
Pretty sure the reason Russia don't mess with them is due to NATO, but if they kill NATO soldiers then the tune might change, regardless of its get written off as a accident or not.
And Turkey is part of NATO, so no other NATO member is going around escalating things with them if Turkey itself does not outright do a major attack on them. There is zero indication anyone is going after foreign soldiers on the base at the moment.
 
Just watched Turkish prime minister Yildirim speak in front of the Turkish parliament. I just can't get the smell of rotten fish out of my noise.

His speech was almost suspiciously bulit on "democracy" pathos.

Please, help me understand - especially TurkGaf:

They have fired 3000 judges: let me guess, that's every Turkish judge in a major position.
So there goes the first pillar of democracy. How do you even replace that many judges in key positions? Judges don't grow on trees. How are those judge even linked to some military coupists?

Cleansing of military has already been announced - there's your second pillar. Just wait for police to be restructured very soon.

The actual coup: let's look at similar events. When Staufenberg and some Wehrmacht higher-ups planned the assassination of Hitler under the circumstances Germany was in at that time, there was a good chance that the whole Nazi regime would crumble once the head was cut off.
Let's look at Turkey: yes, we can assume at least half of the Turkish population supports Erdogan. I haven't heard of any uprisings of the Tukish general public against Erdogan recently. So under this circumstances, how can any military leader plotting a coup expect that a major part of the population and Turkish army will support this? Do we even know how many soldiers were involved in the plot?

The Police was restructured just a year or so ago to get rid of a lot of Gülen supporters.
 

Tecnniqe

Banned
And Turkey is part of NATO, so no other NATO member is going around escalating things with them if Turkey itself does not outright do a major attack on them. There is zero indication anyone is going after foreign soldiers on the base at the moment.
I know they are a part of NATO. I don't think they'll attack them, but at what point do they void the agreement? Can a member be kicked out?
We know they got a brass with Greece too and they just seem to keep piling countries on to that list.

It's scary.
They don't seem to regard much of anyone but themselves.
 
I know they are a part of NATO. I don't think they'll attack them, but at what point do they void the agreement? Can a member be kicked out?
We know they got a brass with Greece too and they just seem to keep piling countries on to that list.

It's scary.
There is no clear process for a member to be kicked out. But keep in mind Turkey has been a member since 1952, so almost the beginning of the alliance. In that time there have been more then a few incidents, among which the Cyprus stuff, which is an issue between Greece and Turkey. Even that did not cause either to be kicked out.

Nothing related to NATO is going to happen here at the moment.
 
Interesting? Dude people are dying.

Anyone with an interest in history or current events has to reconcile with the fact that they are being entertained by what is often the worst time of the subject's life. I think it's just a fact that these kind of things are naturally interesting for people, despite the death or partly because of it.
 

Zaru

Member
The future of Turkey seems to be what happens when a country looks at oppressive dictatorships and theocracies in the region and thinks "I want that too"
 

ATF487

Member
I'm very much against Erdogan's autocratic tendencies and treatment of the Kurdish minority, but there's no denying that he's been tremendously successful in raising Turkey's status in the world and turning it from a stalled nation into an economic success, creating a much higher standard of living for its citizens, who in turn are hugely supportive or at least accepting of his rule.

I usually find Nazi comparisons to be lazy, but you can replace Erdogan with Hitler, Kurdish with Jewish, and Turkey with Germany and this statement is still very accurate...
 

kazegami

Member
Here's a good summary of what the hell is going on here:

To my non-Turkish friends, who have been asking me about what has happened in Turkey in the past few hours.
Here is what we know with some background. I'll try to keep it as unbiased as possible.

Background:
- Turkey is de facto ruled by Erdogan since 2002. He started his political career as a traditional islamist and rebranded himself as a conservative politician as the founder of AKP. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_and_Development_Party_(Turkey)) )

- Turkish Military used to be strictly secular until ~2010. They have staged several coups within the past 60 years. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Military_coups_in_Turkey )

- They have also released a statement targeting Erdogan's non-secular politics in 2007, which became a political crisis. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-memorandum)

- In 2010, there was a constitutional referendum, which gave Erdogan's government more control over judicial system. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_constitutional_referendum,_2010)

- Following the referendum, certain prosecutors were given extraordinary powers to prosecute secular high-rank officers in the military, for planning a coup against Erdogan's government. Whether there really was a coup attempt remains controversial and the answer you get will be different depending on who you ask. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sledgehammer_(coup_plan))

- It is fair to say that Turkish military has not been secular in the same sense after the prosecutions in 2010. There was a shift of power. A number of new high-ranked officials who filled the vacant spots allegedly had ties with Gulen movement. Gulen movement is an islamist movement, which has traditionally been allies with Erdogan.
( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gülen_movement)

- In 2013, Erdogan and leader of Gulen movement parted their ways. I'm not going to go into detail about this, but since 2013 a lot of prominent members of Gulen movement were prosecuted for attempting a coup against Erdogan. That includes military officers, police staff and politicians. The leader of the movement, Fethullah Gulen, is a religious clerk and he's currently in exile in USA (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fethullah_Gülen#Split_with_Erdo.C4.9Fan)


What happened today:
- A group of ~50 mostly medium rank military officers tried to topple Erdogan's government. As of now, it looks like the attempt has failed.

- A number of government officials, including President Erdogan and Prime Minister Yildirim, spoke to the media saying the coup attempt was staged by military officers that are affiliated with Gulen movement. (http://www.theatlantic.com/news/archive/2016/07/turkey-government/491579/

- Erdogan called people to take to the streets and stand against the coup. People reacted strongly and took over the streets. Within a couple hours police forces took control and restored the order in most places. People walked on top of tanks and chanted against the coup. Also, several high rank military officers from different parts of Turkey strongly expressed their opposition against the coup and sided with the government.

- To reiterate: It looks like it was NOT the secular military officers who tried to topple the government. It seems it was mostly medium rank officers who were affiliated with the Gulen movement, which is an islamist movement. However, Gulen movement rejects this claim.

- Another popular theory is that this coup was a hoax staged by Erdogan to increase his popularity. Whether this is true or not, it will certainly serve for that purpose. People are concerned that Erdogan will use this coup attempt to start a witch hunt against all opposition and Turkey is on the verge of an even more authoritarian period.

Couple of other observations:
- It was interesting that almost everyone, regardless of their political position, stood against the coup attempt. The members of parliament from the secular/social-democrat CHP, nationalist MHP and left-wing HDP all opposed the coup attempt. I have never heard anyone (or read any comments) that supported the coup, even in the very beginning when it seemed like the coup would succeed. That was also true for various media outlets in very different sides of the political spectrum.

- It was also very interesting how government officials used FaceTime to make live announcements. I may write a whole another post about this once the dust settles. ( http://money.cnn.com/2016/07/15/technology/turkey-coup-facetime-interview/)

- Whatever is the case, I think it is fair to say that this attempt will help Erdogan to solidify his power and use it to push his political agenda.



I wonder how non-AKP/Erdogan supporters deal with life in Turkey.

Well, we are trying to not get killed and keep our sanity.
 
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